First Solo De-brief, Formal or Informal, Where, When?
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First Solo De-brief, Formal or Informal, Where, When?
SAS says
I have never seen a requirement in a manual for a formal first solo de-brief but it is something I believe is important and would be better carried out in the school immediately after the flight, not down the pub as SAS has suggested, although I understand he is probably anxious to provide a casual celebratory atmosphere.
In my experience a FS student wants to immeadiately talk about the detail asap, so why not de brief straight away combining formality and informality at the same time. Delaying that briefing, in my opinion, could send the wrong signal to the student and be interpreted as 'lack of interest'--What do you think?
There certainly is a time for celebration in the pub but thats after the hangar doors have been closed!
Doing a formal debrief immediately after the first solo isn't professional. It's ludicrous. Just because it says that you should do something in the manual, doesn't mean it's a good idea. A lack of "interest"? A lack of interest in what?
In my experience a FS student wants to immeadiately talk about the detail asap, so why not de brief straight away combining formality and informality at the same time. Delaying that briefing, in my opinion, could send the wrong signal to the student and be interpreted as 'lack of interest'--What do you think?
There certainly is a time for celebration in the pub but thats after the hangar doors have been closed!
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This could be far more easily dealt with in the other thread, where comments can be seen in context and in full.
For a start, my comments were that of course you talk to the student about the flight and you do debrief them, but in a different way to how you would normally do it. You get the information from them (normally as they are blathering at a thousand miles per hour) and then you make comments where appropriate.
What I don't do is frog march them into a briefing room and start lecturing them on the finer points of filling tech logs or what being an aircraft commander means, as you intimated that you do immediately after a first solo.
I don't want this to become a tit for tat arguement between you and I and I'd rather you simply stated you case for doing something, rather than trying to pick apart my methods out of context. That way I can work out of you are actually an FI at all, or simply another in a long line of Pprune fantasists.
For a start, my comments were that of course you talk to the student about the flight and you do debrief them, but in a different way to how you would normally do it. You get the information from them (normally as they are blathering at a thousand miles per hour) and then you make comments where appropriate.
What I don't do is frog march them into a briefing room and start lecturing them on the finer points of filling tech logs or what being an aircraft commander means, as you intimated that you do immediately after a first solo.
I don't want this to become a tit for tat arguement between you and I and I'd rather you simply stated you case for doing something, rather than trying to pick apart my methods out of context. That way I can work out of you are actually an FI at all, or simply another in a long line of Pprune fantasists.
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Where I learned to fly, the whole flying club would turn out on the apron, including friends and family. All would have an egg in their hand. So guess what the debrief consisted of!
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What I don't do is frog march them into a briefing room and start lecturing them on the finer points of filling tech logs or what being an aircraft commander means, as you intimated that you do immediately after a first solo.
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I suggest, don't talk, just listen and enjoy the enthusiasm of the Student.
Last edited by Pull what; 15th Jun 2010 at 09:11.
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That way I can work out of you are actually an FI at all, or simply another in a long line of PPRuNe fantasists.
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At Dublin ties were cut off and pinned on the board-womens knickers were used in place of ties--quite a fun flying school
Formality kills the fun.
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first solo recently
I just had my first solo 2 days ago. Still smiling! 
The debrief involved my instructor asking me how it went, what I thought was good, where i could have done better. Can he give you a real de-brief when he hasn't been in the plane?
I was more than happy to talk it through (at a hundred miles an hour yes) and im sure most first solos feel the same.
I don't think the student would take that much in straight after first solo to be honest - i for one was still pleased i came back in one piece, with the aircraft intact and nose wheel safe and sound. I was quite happy for the instructor to listen rather than lecturing me on how I flew for the first time alone.
Don't think lack of interest should even be mentioned - if i thought for one second i was paying hard-earned cash only for my instructor to be half interested, i wouldn't be at solo stage - and if i was it would be with another instructor!
Cheers
The debrief involved my instructor asking me how it went, what I thought was good, where i could have done better. Can he give you a real de-brief when he hasn't been in the plane?
I was more than happy to talk it through (at a hundred miles an hour yes) and im sure most first solos feel the same.
I don't think the student would take that much in straight after first solo to be honest - i for one was still pleased i came back in one piece, with the aircraft intact and nose wheel safe and sound. I was quite happy for the instructor to listen rather than lecturing me on how I flew for the first time alone.
Don't think lack of interest should even be mentioned - if i thought for one second i was paying hard-earned cash only for my instructor to be half interested, i wouldn't be at solo stage - and if i was it would be with another instructor!
Cheers
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Don't think lack of interest should even be mentioned - if i thought for one second i was paying hard-earned cash only for my instructor to be half interested, i wouldn't be at solo stage - and if i was it would be with another instructor!
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The debrief involved my instructor asking me how it went, what I thought was good, where i could have done better. Can he give you a real de-brief when he hasn't been in the plane?
Filling in your log book & what detail we will fly next-it takes but a few minutes.
Yes of course a de-brief can take place without your instructor being in the aircraft. I am just as excited as you are, I would like to share the experience too!
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But as the buck stops with me my main concern, as your relatives would be the first to tell me, is that nothing kills you!
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Or are you concerned that something really dangerous happened during the first solo, which the student might forget about if you don't debrief him on the spot?
I have a limited amount of time on a 45 hour course to instill into you the best aviation practice and airmanship that I can and I take that task and responsibilty seriously.
That may sound like I do not subscribe to having fun also but I can assure you the two can be combined!.
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If you cannot complete the required training in 45 hours, then take as long as is needed.
You don't rush things simply to fit them into an arbitrary time limit. I have never even thought about the length of time it takes to do a PPL course and nor have any other instructors I've ever flown with. It goes at the best speed for the student. Some can do it in with ease in 45 hours. The vast majority can't and so the course takes longer.
Turbulentmonkey, Well done!
You don't rush things simply to fit them into an arbitrary time limit. I have never even thought about the length of time it takes to do a PPL course and nor have any other instructors I've ever flown with. It goes at the best speed for the student. Some can do it in with ease in 45 hours. The vast majority can't and so the course takes longer.
Turbulentmonkey, Well done!
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I have already given a reply in a different thread.
However I would like to point out...
Every student that walks through my doors is almost never able to finish in 45 hours.
The few that do are exceptionally focused,gifted or have previously flown gliders.
I personally finished in roughly 70 hours.
Every student that walks through my doors is almost never able to finish in 45 hours.
The few that do are exceptionally focused,gifted or have previously flown gliders.
I personally finished in roughly 70 hours.
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I'm fresh of my first solo as well. What an experience.
In terms of debriefing he didn't say a word.
I'm no instructor but unless you make serious mistakes what is the point in a debrief?
- If the flight is excellent then there's no point in debriefing whatsoever. Just a glorified well done, which you get enough of from the lads sitting around in the flight school and over the radio as you taxi back.
- If the flight is good with a couple of mistakes but the pilot is still elated as to be expected, then you drag them into a stuffy little room and pick them up on all the things they could have done better you'll destroy the experience and their newly gained confidence.
I'm a little unusual in that I'm a perfectionist and I like to be told every single little thing I've got wrong, so I wouldn't be fussed if my instructor decided to debrief formally.
The whole point of going solo though is to use your own skills, knowledge and judgment to complete a successful circuit. Surely if you're on the first solo you're at the standard where you don't need an instructor to tell you if you cocked up, or what you could have done better?
In terms of debriefing he didn't say a word.
I'm no instructor but unless you make serious mistakes what is the point in a debrief?
- If the flight is excellent then there's no point in debriefing whatsoever. Just a glorified well done, which you get enough of from the lads sitting around in the flight school and over the radio as you taxi back.
- If the flight is good with a couple of mistakes but the pilot is still elated as to be expected, then you drag them into a stuffy little room and pick them up on all the things they could have done better you'll destroy the experience and their newly gained confidence.
I'm a little unusual in that I'm a perfectionist and I like to be told every single little thing I've got wrong, so I wouldn't be fussed if my instructor decided to debrief formally.
The whole point of going solo though is to use your own skills, knowledge and judgment to complete a successful circuit. Surely if you're on the first solo you're at the standard where you don't need an instructor to tell you if you cocked up, or what you could have done better?
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Yes a debrief after the first solo is mandatory, it consists of " You did it!!!!! "
Picking fly **** out of pepper is not needed after the first solo.
Any instructor who teaches based only on what " the book " says is not an instructor they are robots and better suited to getting a job as a bureaucrat in government where one only crosses the T's and dots the I's.
The first solo is a once in a life time experience and should not be tainted by debriefing, if the student wants to ask a question about what they did that is fine, then you advise.
Picking fly **** out of pepper is not needed after the first solo.
Any instructor who teaches based only on what " the book " says is not an instructor they are robots and better suited to getting a job as a bureaucrat in government where one only crosses the T's and dots the I's.
The first solo is a once in a life time experience and should not be tainted by debriefing, if the student wants to ask a question about what they did that is fine, then you advise.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 15th Jun 2010 at 14:18.