First Solo De-brief, Formal or Informal, Where, When?
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The teaching methods from those days are well out of date to the point that even the RAF haven't used them for 15-20 years.
Most of the PPL is based on wartime methods with an bit of FAA fantasy thrown in by Ron Campbell in the 70s
Quite happy to accept than my methods are pish to you but do tell me which bits are pish and why
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But I think if my instructor had even tried to engage me in anything like that after my 1st solo, it just wouldn't have worked.
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I think that this is a good time to point out the original argument that spawned this one was based on the statement by someone that when they send a student on their forst solo they do not even bother to watch what they do.
Rather than point out the obvious that such a technique is poor practice I asked how that person would debrief what the student did if they did not even bother to watch the event.
I further made the point that this was a clear example of the instructor getting as emotionally caught up in the significance of the first solo as the student and that as such was failing to remain profesional.
The point is not that a formal lenghty debrief is required at the end of the exercise especially if all went well. However, unless the instructor takes the time to observe what the student does they have no way of for example answering the students question of "why did I bounce 3 times and almost run off the end of the runway" with something other than "I did not bother to look and was not aware that you did!!"
Well done let's go for a pint.
Well done, (Note to self needs to practice a go-round next time because the one they did wasn't the best).
are examples of "de-briefs".
So to put the whole point of this debate into the spotlight -
Do people think that the authorising instructor or a nominated qualified representative should observe a first (and second) solo flight in the circuit?
Do you think that the instructor should be able to put into the next dual lesson something that they observe as being in need of improvement during that solo flight?
I think that not bothering to at least watch what the solo student does is highly unprofessional and prevents the pre-second solo dual session from being tailored to any issues that may have occurred.
That is the issue!!
Rather than point out the obvious that such a technique is poor practice I asked how that person would debrief what the student did if they did not even bother to watch the event.
I further made the point that this was a clear example of the instructor getting as emotionally caught up in the significance of the first solo as the student and that as such was failing to remain profesional.
The point is not that a formal lenghty debrief is required at the end of the exercise especially if all went well. However, unless the instructor takes the time to observe what the student does they have no way of for example answering the students question of "why did I bounce 3 times and almost run off the end of the runway" with something other than "I did not bother to look and was not aware that you did!!"
Well done let's go for a pint.
Well done, (Note to self needs to practice a go-round next time because the one they did wasn't the best).
are examples of "de-briefs".
So to put the whole point of this debate into the spotlight -
Do people think that the authorising instructor or a nominated qualified representative should observe a first (and second) solo flight in the circuit?
Do you think that the instructor should be able to put into the next dual lesson something that they observe as being in need of improvement during that solo flight?
I think that not bothering to at least watch what the solo student does is highly unprofessional and prevents the pre-second solo dual session from being tailored to any issues that may have occurred.
That is the issue!!
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No - the venue would have been irrelevant: I couldn't remember anything of it to have any sort of meaningful conversation!!! What my instructor has done - cleverly I think - is made sure that I've had challenging stuff in the next lesson after first solo, 1st solo nav, and qxc!
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I couldn't remember anything of it to have any sort of meaningful conversation!!!
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The point is not that a formal lenghty debrief is required at the end of the exercise
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They are pish because you only have one method. The student either learns or they don't.
You don't take into account that every person is different. You have no concept how people learn, even why they learn or why they are all different some more different than others.
Students learned to fly inspite of the instruction given instead because of the instruction given.
Apparently your ilke was exactly the same flying the line. So much knowledge to give but a complete incompetence of sharing it.
The syllabus is the same, the method of teaching has progressed. Its a pity that some of the auld tw@ts are either unwilling or unable to move with it.
I have been exposed to an ex Hamble instructor on my first type rating. Thankfully I wasn't on the recieving end of the sarcastic comments. My sim partner was down for no further training. Thankfully a true instructor took over (Dave Royal) and took 15 mins to sort out a very daft mistake which the ex Hamble TRI had spent 8 hours watching without realising the prat was covering the brakes on a V1 cut. In that 8 hours my sim partner was subjected to comments on the fact that he was a self improver so it was to be expect, if he couldn't fly a crappy turboprop did he expect to fly a jet. Then the final none stressful, bound to get the student to improve "if you don't sort yourself on this next one I am reporting to the company that your training should be stopped." It doesn't work, 15 mins with Dave and problem sorted LPC passed. Thankfully we kept Dave for the rest of the course.
You don't take into account that every person is different. You have no concept how people learn, even why they learn or why they are all different some more different than others.
Students learned to fly inspite of the instruction given instead because of the instruction given.
Apparently your ilke was exactly the same flying the line. So much knowledge to give but a complete incompetence of sharing it.
The syllabus is the same, the method of teaching has progressed. Its a pity that some of the auld tw@ts are either unwilling or unable to move with it.
I have been exposed to an ex Hamble instructor on my first type rating. Thankfully I wasn't on the recieving end of the sarcastic comments. My sim partner was down for no further training. Thankfully a true instructor took over (Dave Royal) and took 15 mins to sort out a very daft mistake which the ex Hamble TRI had spent 8 hours watching without realising the prat was covering the brakes on a V1 cut. In that 8 hours my sim partner was subjected to comments on the fact that he was a self improver so it was to be expect, if he couldn't fly a crappy turboprop did he expect to fly a jet. Then the final none stressful, bound to get the student to improve "if you don't sort yourself on this next one I am reporting to the company that your training should be stopped." It doesn't work, 15 mins with Dave and problem sorted LPC passed. Thankfully we kept Dave for the rest of the course.
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They are pish because you only have one method. The student either learns or they don't.
You don't take into account that every person is different. You have no concept how people learn, even why they learn or why they are all different some more different than others.
Most of the PPL is based on wartime methods with an bit of FAA fantasy thrown in by Ron Campbell in the 70s
Really -- do tell us more about which parts the RAF havnt used for 15-20 years.
The RAF turns out some very arrogant superior pilots-am I close?
Prove you're not a Walt, or expect the inevitable.
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I have been exposed to an ex Hamble instructor on my first type rating. Thankfully I wasn't on the recieving end of the sarcastic comments. My sim partner was down for no further training. Thankfully a true instructor took over (Dave Royal) and took 15 mins to sort out a very daft mistake which the ex Hamble TRI had spent 8 hours watching without realising the prat was covering the brakes on a V1 cut. In that 8 hours my sim partner was subjected to comments on the fact that he was a self improver so it was to be expect, if he couldn't fly a crappy turboprop did he expect to fly a jet. Then the final none stressful, bound to get the student to improve "if you don't sort yourself on this next one I am reporting to the company that your training should be stopped." It doesn't work, 15 mins with Dave and problem sorted LPC passed. Thankfully we kept Dave for the rest of the course.
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Awful lot of question when you refuse to answer ones given to you.
If you are a FII could you please explain the process in becoming a FII?
Give us your theory on learning and how students process information in the learning enviroment.
Then please explain the factors that can degrade the proccessing of information and the ability to learn form that information.
Then explain how the student will benefit from a formal long debrief from a first solo straight after completion.
Then please explain the factors that can degrade the proccessing of information and the ability to learn form that information.
Then explain how the student will benefit from a formal long debrief from a first solo straight after completion.
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Ah Beagle I thought you were ignoring me!
One at a time
Too much time in the pub with Neville Birch
One at a time
Most of the PPL is based on wartime methods with an bit of FAA fantasy thrown in by Ron Campbell in the 70s Oh really? From what factual information do you make such an assertion?
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The RAF turns out some very arrogant superior pilots-am I close? But, since you claim to have been a 'airline captain with 30 years of experience' , no less, how on earth would you have any idea about RAF training methods?
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Then explain how the student will benefit from a formal long debrief from a first solo straight after completion.
I have never at anytime suggested a formal long de-brief ?
In my opinion a de brief is best covered as soon as possible after the event, when the detail is fresh in the mind. Leaving it until a later time may mean it is in fact never given.
As you were reminded it was you that stated that there is no need to observe a first solo but then try to say that students are individuals
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So, that's me, MJ, BEagle and Chuck who are all convinced of your Waltish behaviour.
I reckon that's at least a century of flying instruction there if not more.
I think the ignore button might be getting used again.
I reckon that's at least a century of flying instruction there if not more.
I think the ignore button might be getting used again.
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So, that's me, MJ, BEagle and Chuck who are all convinced of your Waltish behaviour.
I reckon that's at least a century of flying instruction there if not more.
