Flight/Ground Ops, Crewing and Dispatch A forum for the people who are engaged in operational control/flight dispatch/crewing and their colleagues airside in ramp dispatch, load control and ground handling, to discuss issues directly related to keeping their aircrew and aircraft operational.

Stansted Handling

Old 4th Nov 2007, 14:30
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Hahaha, i knew there would be some pompus comment somewhere or other! Well 3 Million people read it a day! You know youve read it before! Anyway, it said something about a 24hour delay, then offering people flights on BA, in economy! and theys till didnt get their bags! Great airline
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Old 4th Nov 2007, 21:58
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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If that is true, that is bad news for S/Air, what have they got left?

Not enough to keep workforce busy, perhaps these managers should now look at their own poor performance and attitude to see just where they have gone wrong ...... again, this is not the first time they have messed up big time....
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Old 5th Nov 2007, 07:16
  #23 (permalink)  
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What S/Air have left. Not a lot

Yes Maxjet will leave S/Air in the new year. Avaince 30% cheaper than S/Air.
There are noises coming our from S/Air that they have put bids in for Germanwings, Norwegian and Transavia. But is this just S/Air managers trying to give good news to the workforce.
As for S/Air managers they need to look at themselves and think 4 new airlines why have we only got one of them.
It is the 'cant be bothered' way of thinking that has infected S/Air. That can been see by the way the staff conduct themselves round the airport. Until you get rid of that mind set by kicking the managers you wont change S/Air at STN.
What S/Air managers need to get into their heads is that the airlines are their customers and they need to be looked after not left on the shelf to collect dust.
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Old 5th Nov 2007, 08:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Mr.Flaps, I fully agree with you, once again due to S/Air ground-handling management they have lost another airline, it is not the first time they have done this, bearing in mind it is the same management structure as it has been for a number of years, i am surprised Head Office has let it go on for so long.

The 'cant be bothered' attitude is well and truely set in the staffs minds aswell and more so the management there, What is promised never materialises and on more than one occasion when S/Air has handled and airline, there is insuffiecent staff to service that aircraft.

So yet again other parts of S/Air suffer due to the failings and crappy mind-set attitude of that management.

Well at least now, they can supply extra staff to service the EOS, as they will have little else to do.

30% is a big difference - i wonder how much S/Air were charging in the first place
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Old 5th Nov 2007, 09:21
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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fish

you lot talk a lot of brown smelly stuff
certain airlines have pulled out for financial reasons ie increased landing fees.And if, as an airline, you are offered services at a reduced pric(25-30%) of course you are gonna go for it.Servisair management aint the best,but,can you really blame them for all this?????????
Rumour has it that Aviance have agreed to tow any and all maxjets free of charge. Bearing in mind that they have also put in the cheap quote,does this really make sound financial sense????? I think not.
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Old 5th Nov 2007, 16:57
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Brown smelly stuff, dont think so.

Sat 1 perhaps you should think of the staff that may well be facing redundancy because of the loss of work involved with Maxjet and you still think its not S/Air's managements fault and their policies .....
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Old 6th Nov 2007, 08:05
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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fish

I stand by what I said. Pure economics has been at work here. I happen to think that Aviance have made a BIG mistake here. I dont believe they have appreciated the work involved with Maxjet,their other work will suffer as the Americans takeup more and more time,staff and equipment.Watch this space. If Maxjet are still operating in 2009 it will be with Servisair.
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Old 6th Nov 2007, 15:12
  #28 (permalink)  
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Sat 1, you could take this look on the maxjet issue. Avaince knew there where loosing GSM at the end of the summer. They needed a same size operation or bigger to fill the gap left by GSM pulling out of STN. And Maxjet at the time was looking.
But I still stand by what I have said because why out of 4 new airlines S/Air only has one. And the 'cant be bothered' way of thinking needs to change before they can progress. Swissport have the killer mind set if the prise is big enough go for it and see what happens. Shows that S/Port managers are hungry for progress. The staff may need a kick in the right place but so does everyone else at times.
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Old 6th Nov 2007, 19:21
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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the merry go round

Hounddog1 ~ I should think that Servisair are trying to invoke TUPE (Google it). If they are successful that should put a hole in the Aviance maths but it should protect the staff jobs.

Mr Flaps ~ in my experience the commercial department of a handling agent has a very tenuous link to the operational management. There is a well known cycle on this that operates at most big airports

1) The commercial management sit in the ivory tower bidding on everything and getting the best price they can for the job (buying the business)
2) They win it and throw it over to the operational managers who have to try to make it work with the resources they can afford
3) If they manage to keep within the budget the service suffers and the airline moves
4) If they fail to keep within the budget then the handler starts to loose money
5) The final part of the cycle is the handler coming to its senses and starts jacking up the price. Unfortunately this is usually at the same time that another handler is starting the cycle.

A good example of this at Stansted recently is the move of THY to Swissport. The operation was struggling at the THY operating times before they won the contract. You have to wonder if the commercial team even spoke to the operational management before they put in the bid. THY use their own check in system so it requires its own team, I know there were occasions where the THY station management had to check in their own flight because there werenít enough trained agents. Swissport are currently at number 3) on the cycle with a number of airlines so just wait for the merry go round to start again soon.
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Old 7th Nov 2007, 13:02
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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fish

beautifully put!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and true.
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Old 7th Nov 2007, 14:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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It does make me laugh reading these comments and Management that can't be bothered, really, maybe you should try learning what goes on before you blame them for everything bar the weather.

On the comments about Turkish, I think you will find that the decision to change handling agents was made without reference to the local Managers so was nothing to do with the performance.
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Old 7th Nov 2007, 17:55
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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As ramp rat said, these little cycles always happen with the handling agents. Anyone remember when Swissport lost a load of business probably at the end of S05 and there were alot of contracts not being renewed. Swings and roundabouts im afraid. And also when Aviance cleared off altogether in '04! I never disagree with SAT1 either he is f'ing marvellous.
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 15:05
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Major restructuring needed at Servisair

The reason Servisair will continue to lose out on contracts is they cannot compete on price they carry to much overhead two lots of management Cargo and Ramp too many Managers,Duty Managers in Cargo, Ramp and FOH all drawing fat pay packets doing fk all who go missing when the st hits the fan and never seem to be around at weekends or evenings.
All the handling agents are more or less the same but Airlines have look at the bottom line in the end so if you charge the highest price and supply a st service to Airlines they look at other handling agents.
Servisair have a good loyal hard working workforce being let down by the management if there are any job losses how many of these will be management? or as usual the old boy network looking after their mates.
Until Servisair address these issues it will be more of the same.
My guess will be no pay rise for 2008 roster changes and job losses.
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Old 8th Nov 2007, 18:26
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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fish The reason Servisair will continue to lose out on contracts is they cannot compete on

"The reason Servisair will continue to lose out on contracts is they cannot compete on price they carry to much overhead two lots of management Cargo and Ramp too many Managers,Duty Managers in Cargo, Ramp and FOH all drawing fat pay packets doing fk all who go missing when the st hits the fan and never seem to be around at weekends or evenings."


ITS EASY TO SEE WHICH COMPANY YOU WORK FOR......MATE!!
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 08:38
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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tgwustn - I think a look further away from S/Air management for a moment would point out a bigger reason why S/Air face the situation there in now.

BAA!!!!!

IF the charges from BAA wernt put up, SkyEurope, CSA and the Air Berlin hub would still be operating, yes?

Then S/Air would still be serving these airlines, but due to the higher charges they've gone and S/Air are in the st.

D-ABAA
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 11:00
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Servisair Stn

D-ABAA and SAT 1
Airlines come and go for several reasons and are always looking at costs and like any good company should be looking at ways to cut costs and improve your service you give to the customer.
In the cut throat business of ground handling you have to improve and offer the customer good service and keep an eye on your cost you pass on to the customer.
Servisair have failed to do this and have to pass on the extra cost to the airlines and will continue to lose contracts and fail to get new ones because of their high overheads.
Servisair have a good skilled workforce which is being let down by management looking after themselves and not the business.

SAT 1 what company is that MATE ?
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 12:39
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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tgwu - interesting statement, as sat 1 says we can see which company you work for, i wonder if you realise that Cargo is run as a seperate company to Ground handling and has been for a number of years, so the comment about doubling up on Duty Managers with Cargo and Ground Handling is unjustified as each company has its own management team, neither one interacts in each others buisness --- so tell me , which of the two companies is more profitable and has sustained its contracts ????
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 14:29
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Angry Servisair Stn

Houngddog1
I am aware on the face of it the Ramp and Cargo are run as seperate companies, but do sit down with the unions together in the annual pay talks.
The overhead issue is the same in Ramp,FOH and Cargo and needs to change in order to complete with the other handling agents.
I just heard on the airport grapevine that Asianna Airlines have signed up again with Aviance after talking with Servisair ,can anyone confirm this?

Interesting you say neither management interacts with each other Ramp working their bs off and short of staff while Cargo do Fk all.
Cargo only have one major contract BA and from what i have heard are always threating to pull out of Stn in order to get Servisair to drop the price can,t be very profitable.
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 17:44
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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tgwu - you just have no idea of what actually happens in cargo, just because you dont see freighters lined up does not mean they are not doing f - all as you politly put it, its amazing what goes on behind closed doors !!!
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Old 9th Nov 2007, 21:01
  #40 (permalink)  
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As most of you say S/Air need to cut the management level down to compete on price with their current customer airlines and new airlines looking for a handling agent.
As has been said some factors are out of S/Airís control like BAA raising landing charges because STN has to stand on its own two feet and it can not sponge off Gatwick or Heathrow.
For S/Air to become more competitive they need to cut out a layer of management and stop asking out stations to fund HQ in Manchester. HQ in MAN have money problems and after talking to people who work for S/Air out of Bristol and Jersey and saying they are all having same problems as STN makes me think is there a bigger problem within S/Air. But I may be wrong. As for S/Air at STN, some academic practises would not go a miss like introducing Total Quality Management. Make the staff feel valued and looked after them and destroy the negative culture that is rampant in management and staff.
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