Aviance awarded Air France contract @ MAN....
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Aviance awarded Air France contract @ MAN....
I believe that today Aviance begin handling Air France at Manchester, which was a former Servisair contract. This is a pretty good contract to be awarded, especially as they already handle KLM & Delta at Manchester. Does anyone know if they are likely to take on CSA Czech Airlines to complete the SkyTeam compliment?
Also, on the subject of Aviance, I heard they lost the EasyJet contract at LPL to Servisair - is that the end of Aviance at LPL now?? (I'm sure that was their only contract there....)
Anyone got any more info on handling changes among the airlines?
I know Eastern are going from bmi & Aviance to Groundstar later this month (presumably due to bmi starting services on the MAN-NWI route!).... & Virgin Atlantic have gone to G'star @ LGW.... anyone got any more rumours????
Also, on the subject of Aviance, I heard they lost the EasyJet contract at LPL to Servisair - is that the end of Aviance at LPL now?? (I'm sure that was their only contract there....)
Anyone got any more info on handling changes among the airlines?
I know Eastern are going from bmi & Aviance to Groundstar later this month (presumably due to bmi starting services on the MAN-NWI route!).... & Virgin Atlantic have gone to G'star @ LGW.... anyone got any more rumours????
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MAN,
For somone such as AF to leave Servisair after so many years is a pretty big blow for them I imagine...
Depends on the reasons for the move, but I know Servisair aren't in the greatest of shapes at the moment, so maybe they decided it was time for a fresh start (in which case why Aviance???).
Depending on the how the acquisition of G* by a much larger world player is progressing, there may well be other contracts on the move...
Watch this space...
PHX
For somone such as AF to leave Servisair after so many years is a pretty big blow for them I imagine...
Depends on the reasons for the move, but I know Servisair aren't in the greatest of shapes at the moment, so maybe they decided it was time for a fresh start (in which case why Aviance???).
Depending on the how the acquisition of G* by a much larger world player is progressing, there may well be other contracts on the move...
Watch this space...
PHX
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I find airfrance(by regional) the most rude and obnoxious crews, both flight deck and the cabin crew. They will not board ontime if they have slot restrictions, do they believe in ready messages? Does anyone else feel the same was as i do about the crews?
They'll close their doors on you if they dont wish to speak, but when they want to speak they expect you to be there and then!
They'll close their doors on you if they dont wish to speak, but when they want to speak they expect you to be there and then!
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I agree with Stud3 the french crews can be a little testing on the average dispatcher patience.
I also agree it is a good contract for Aviance to get especially with rumours circling around that they have been given notice by at least one of their current customers at MAN. How true these rumours are will become clear in the long run, but for the time being I wish all at Aviance good luck with Air France, you will need it!
I also agree it is a good contract for Aviance to get especially with rumours circling around that they have been given notice by at least one of their current customers at MAN. How true these rumours are will become clear in the long run, but for the time being I wish all at Aviance good luck with Air France, you will need it!
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OTV and Stud3 are both right - Although there are obviously exceptions, the majority of the AF crews I had dealings with were surly or just downright rude..
As OTV says, good luck all you guys at Aviance MAN!
PHX
As OTV says, good luck all you guys at Aviance MAN!
PHX
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Speaking as an ex AF dispatcher from LHR...
You boys need to get a life. AF crews were the most professional I ever came across.They had extremely high standards and, if you showed that you could meet these standards,they were great to work with.If however they thought that you couldnt dispatch your way out of a paper bag,they gave you plenty of s***. AF as a company were great to work for until they got into bed with Servisair at LHR...but then what do you expect from a handling agent? If you lot cant hack it,you should stick to the charters.
Probably upset you with my comments but thats my opinion.
777
You boys need to get a life. AF crews were the most professional I ever came across.They had extremely high standards and, if you showed that you could meet these standards,they were great to work with.If however they thought that you couldnt dispatch your way out of a paper bag,they gave you plenty of s***. AF as a company were great to work for until they got into bed with Servisair at LHR...but then what do you expect from a handling agent? If you lot cant hack it,you should stick to the charters.
Probably upset you with my comments but thats my opinion.
777
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777,
I think we're getting our wires crossed here - I'm not disputing the fact that AF crews are extremely professional, I just feel that the way this is put across to the guys on the ground leaves something to be desired. We both agree on a lot of issues regarding standards/training etc from our discussions regarding VS at LHR - It's clear to me that you certainly know your stuff and I certainly like to think that I do - Like you, I came from a reputable national carrier at LHR only to be extremely disappointed by the way things were at what I expected to be a dynamic,professional, breath of fresh air, and we were both sadly mistaken.
I think what I found difficult with AF crews was that as a member of Handling Agent staff I was expected NOT to be knowledgeable about the majority of issues, simply because that is the standard they had come to expect - I knew I was better than that and felt frustrated at constantly having to prove myself. From this point of view this is one of the big failings of the Handling Agents (certainly Servisair at MAN), that they recruit inexperienced staff and throw them in at the deep end with an inadequate level of training (yet another example of this!) so they are unable to provide the standard of Dispatch that is expected by the likes of AF.
Hope you can see my point of view and realise that I am more or less in agreement with you,
Regards,
PHX
I think we're getting our wires crossed here - I'm not disputing the fact that AF crews are extremely professional, I just feel that the way this is put across to the guys on the ground leaves something to be desired. We both agree on a lot of issues regarding standards/training etc from our discussions regarding VS at LHR - It's clear to me that you certainly know your stuff and I certainly like to think that I do - Like you, I came from a reputable national carrier at LHR only to be extremely disappointed by the way things were at what I expected to be a dynamic,professional, breath of fresh air, and we were both sadly mistaken.
I think what I found difficult with AF crews was that as a member of Handling Agent staff I was expected NOT to be knowledgeable about the majority of issues, simply because that is the standard they had come to expect - I knew I was better than that and felt frustrated at constantly having to prove myself. From this point of view this is one of the big failings of the Handling Agents (certainly Servisair at MAN), that they recruit inexperienced staff and throw them in at the deep end with an inadequate level of training (yet another example of this!) so they are unable to provide the standard of Dispatch that is expected by the likes of AF.
Hope you can see my point of view and realise that I am more or less in agreement with you,
Regards,
PHX
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Crossing of wires noted Phoenix.That was basically my point...once again you hit the nail on the head.Apologies for any offence caused (I wrote that before I received your PM)
777
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mr.777
The post was not concerning the professionalism of the flight deck crew, i admire them. Regardless of how professional or how crap a dispatcher you are, no-one deserves to be spoken down too, or have doors closed on you becase the crew dont wish to speak to you. We would almost certainly be sacked if we spoke to any crew in that manner so we dont expect it back.
If there policy is not to board until -15mins untill CTOT then fair enough, but it would be nice to have a memo from regional if this is the case, as it only seems to be regional that never board ontime if there is a slot restriction.
If there policy is not to board until -15mins untill CTOT then fair enough, but it would be nice to have a memo from regional if this is the case, as it only seems to be regional that never board ontime if there is a slot restriction.
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Two Items
1. I think you will find that Servisair left AF and not the other way round....money me thinks. It certainly did not have anything to do with lack of experience on the Dispatchers part and
2. I believe the reason why they never board/push park is due to the Flight Deck receiving pay from the moment brakes are off.
1. I think you will find that Servisair left AF and not the other way round....money me thinks. It certainly did not have anything to do with lack of experience on the Dispatchers part and
2. I believe the reason why they never board/push park is due to the Flight Deck receiving pay from the moment brakes are off.
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"Monsoir" (surely a good name for a discussion on AF?)
Hope it is correct that Servisair left AF - Perhaps finally the penny has dropped i.e. if the contract does not make enough money and the customer expects too much for nothing because that is the way it has always been then LET THEM GO...
Glad to see that Servisair/Globe/ServisairGlobe/etc finally sees this, although maybe a case of too little too late(???) I suspect you are well placed to comment either way...
Can't comment about the second point but I don't feel I am speaking out of turn to say that the French crews are pretty hot when it come to agreements bashed out by the unions!!!
Regards,
PHX
Hope it is correct that Servisair left AF - Perhaps finally the penny has dropped i.e. if the contract does not make enough money and the customer expects too much for nothing because that is the way it has always been then LET THEM GO...
Glad to see that Servisair/Globe/ServisairGlobe/etc finally sees this, although maybe a case of too little too late(???) I suspect you are well placed to comment either way...
Can't comment about the second point but I don't feel I am speaking out of turn to say that the French crews are pretty hot when it come to agreements bashed out by the unions!!!
Regards,
PHX
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Yes Aviance have lost Ezy at Liverpool But no they are still there and have some good contracts in the pipeline (Mon Chx Vlm )
S/air undercut Aviances bid by a large amount but the service Ezy now gets proves you get what you pay for
S/air undercut Aviances bid by a large amount but the service Ezy now gets proves you get what you pay for
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are servisair having problems at MAN cos we are having problems at leeds also, it pritty much the same taking on inexperienced staff who dnt give at **** and then leave after three weeks and where back to square one. and the staff at leeds who are experienced end up being kept on the lowest rate of pay which A1 on the pay scale which is well **** and is not fair. just wonder how it works at MAN a few of us are thinking of transfering over!!
Also we have a big contract with Jet2 that pay almost nothing for handling and expected the earth.
i think the company is really going down hill fast
any info will be much appriciated
cheers
Also we have a big contract with Jet2 that pay almost nothing for handling and expected the earth.
i think the company is really going down hill fast
any info will be much appriciated
cheers
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HI
WITH REGARDING THE FIRST FEW POINTS MADE WITH ABOUT RUMORS IN THE INDUSTRY, I WORK AS DISPATCH AND LOAD CONTROL AT SOU AND THE CONTRACT WITH AVIANCE IS NOW UP FOR GRABS, GLOBE FLEW IN TODAY AND G* ARE INTERESTED. MY PERSONAL OPINION AVIANCE, EVEN THOUGH THEY CURRENTLY HAVE STILL 29% OF THE MARKET SHARE, ARE GOING TO LOSE MANY MORE STATIONS MAINLY DUE TO THE CURRENT LOCAL AND NATIONAL PAY DISSPUTES. ALSO THE FACT THAT THEY CANNOT LOOK AFTER THEIR STAFF, IN MY EXPERIENCE, KEEPS MORAL LOW AND FLIGHTS STRUGGLING TO DEPART ON TIME. ALSO THEY ARE TRYING TO CHANGE TO CENTRALISED LOAD PLAN ACCROSS ALL THEIR STATIONS, MEANING LOAD SHEETS ARE PRODUCED IN MY CASE LGW. THIS IS KEEPING STAFF IN JOBS IN LGW CUTTING COSTS AND CREATING MONEY AS AIRLINES ARE NOW PAYING DOUBLE, DISPATCH AND LOAD CONTROL. STILL CLP AT SOU IS TOTALLY CR** AND DELAYS MORE FLIGHT THAN GO ON TIME. THIS ALL POINTS TOWARDS AVIANCE HAVING NATIONAL STRIKES AND ANGRY AIRLINES SO KEEP AN EYE ON SOU.
AND WITH REGARD TO AF, AT SOU THEY ARE AMUSING. THEY PUSH LATE AND CALL UP REQUESTING OFF ON TIME. THIS IS REGULAR SO IT LOOKS GOOD ON YOUR RECORD. ALSO IF THEY GIVE ANY UNJUSTIFIED HASSLE JUST TAKE THE LOAD SHEET AND WALK THEY WILL SOON LEARN.
ENJOY CHRIS
WITH REGARDING THE FIRST FEW POINTS MADE WITH ABOUT RUMORS IN THE INDUSTRY, I WORK AS DISPATCH AND LOAD CONTROL AT SOU AND THE CONTRACT WITH AVIANCE IS NOW UP FOR GRABS, GLOBE FLEW IN TODAY AND G* ARE INTERESTED. MY PERSONAL OPINION AVIANCE, EVEN THOUGH THEY CURRENTLY HAVE STILL 29% OF THE MARKET SHARE, ARE GOING TO LOSE MANY MORE STATIONS MAINLY DUE TO THE CURRENT LOCAL AND NATIONAL PAY DISSPUTES. ALSO THE FACT THAT THEY CANNOT LOOK AFTER THEIR STAFF, IN MY EXPERIENCE, KEEPS MORAL LOW AND FLIGHTS STRUGGLING TO DEPART ON TIME. ALSO THEY ARE TRYING TO CHANGE TO CENTRALISED LOAD PLAN ACCROSS ALL THEIR STATIONS, MEANING LOAD SHEETS ARE PRODUCED IN MY CASE LGW. THIS IS KEEPING STAFF IN JOBS IN LGW CUTTING COSTS AND CREATING MONEY AS AIRLINES ARE NOW PAYING DOUBLE, DISPATCH AND LOAD CONTROL. STILL CLP AT SOU IS TOTALLY CR** AND DELAYS MORE FLIGHT THAN GO ON TIME. THIS ALL POINTS TOWARDS AVIANCE HAVING NATIONAL STRIKES AND ANGRY AIRLINES SO KEEP AN EYE ON SOU.
AND WITH REGARD TO AF, AT SOU THEY ARE AMUSING. THEY PUSH LATE AND CALL UP REQUESTING OFF ON TIME. THIS IS REGULAR SO IT LOOKS GOOD ON YOUR RECORD. ALSO IF THEY GIVE ANY UNJUSTIFIED HASSLE JUST TAKE THE LOAD SHEET AND WALK THEY WILL SOON LEARN.
ENJOY CHRIS
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cheers MONSOIRC ive sent you a reply.
ChrisBowler: centrelised load control this shows that people running the company have no idea or interest in airports or how they are run. Image having to ring london every time you need a new loadsheet and it will happen because flightdeck are always changing there minds about fuel, DOW crew config etc no disrespect to flightdeck or anything its just part of the job, and not forgetting the last minute changes LMC's, offloads etc. times a couple of fussy flightdeck by all the other stations and uve easierly got a nice delay while you wait for your new loadsheet to print off.
most flightdeck will probable get feed up of waiting and start doing their own loadsheets.
its about time some of these bigwigs went back to the floor and tried living on our wages for a week then id like to see what they have got to say!!
ChrisBowler: centrelised load control this shows that people running the company have no idea or interest in airports or how they are run. Image having to ring london every time you need a new loadsheet and it will happen because flightdeck are always changing there minds about fuel, DOW crew config etc no disrespect to flightdeck or anything its just part of the job, and not forgetting the last minute changes LMC's, offloads etc. times a couple of fussy flightdeck by all the other stations and uve easierly got a nice delay while you wait for your new loadsheet to print off.
most flightdeck will probable get feed up of waiting and start doing their own loadsheets.
its about time some of these bigwigs went back to the floor and tried living on our wages for a week then id like to see what they have got to say!!
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Jimbols,
Not sure what MONSOIRC told you in PM - Suspect he can give you the lowdown on current MAN Servisair situation (which I understand to be "fluid" at the moment).
Agree with your thoughts about CLP - I have been on both sides of the fence and can't say I found it particularly workable in either situation - The best person to be dealing with the W+B for any given flight has GOT to be the Dispatcher at the gate...
and
Chris Bowler,
NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!
Regards,
PHX
Not sure what MONSOIRC told you in PM - Suspect he can give you the lowdown on current MAN Servisair situation (which I understand to be "fluid" at the moment).
Agree with your thoughts about CLP - I have been on both sides of the fence and can't say I found it particularly workable in either situation - The best person to be dealing with the W+B for any given flight has GOT to be the Dispatcher at the gate...
and
Chris Bowler,
NO NEED TO SHOUT!!!
Regards,
PHX
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From what Chris Bowler said Aviance are having the same probs as Servisair,
I do know Aviance at LBA are having some difficulties at the MO, mainly because, and I'm sure this is at other stations aswell, When BMI were self handling and Aviance took over, they carried on paying Aviance staff the same as what they were on at BMI, which as we all know, if you're a handling agent trying to undercut the other your gonna run out of money, the staff at LBA Aviance are on a considreble amount more than Servisair for this reason,
We lost the Tyrolean contract to Aviance 3 days before the schedule started, and we understand that Servisair gave it away due to it not being worth it, what do Aviance think about that then!
The problem at Servisair LBA is we have 2 airlines who operate the most from here, and they pay very little, now whoever is nagotiating these contracts needs to sort somthing out here before all of us ends up in the dole que.
Also CLP is the worst thing anyone can do, there will be **** up after **** up, but it's not happening to Servisair yet, so lets see how it goes with Aviance, if it ever gets off the ground that is, JIMBO I agree, those people at the top now nothing.
CHEERS!!!!!!!
I do know Aviance at LBA are having some difficulties at the MO, mainly because, and I'm sure this is at other stations aswell, When BMI were self handling and Aviance took over, they carried on paying Aviance staff the same as what they were on at BMI, which as we all know, if you're a handling agent trying to undercut the other your gonna run out of money, the staff at LBA Aviance are on a considreble amount more than Servisair for this reason,
We lost the Tyrolean contract to Aviance 3 days before the schedule started, and we understand that Servisair gave it away due to it not being worth it, what do Aviance think about that then!
The problem at Servisair LBA is we have 2 airlines who operate the most from here, and they pay very little, now whoever is nagotiating these contracts needs to sort somthing out here before all of us ends up in the dole que.
Also CLP is the worst thing anyone can do, there will be **** up after **** up, but it's not happening to Servisair yet, so lets see how it goes with Aviance, if it ever gets off the ground that is, JIMBO I agree, those people at the top now nothing.
CHEERS!!!!!!!
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I heard a few weeks back that the beancounters at Servisair have finally worked out that some contracts are not worth the s**t that goes with them and the policy of undercutting the competition to get contracts has stopped.
The new policy is to get all staff trained up to a decent level of competence so that the level of service is equal at all stations.
And when it comes to contract negotiations the policy will be to tell airlines what service they are going to be given and what it will cost, if the airline does not like the bill then rather than slash the cost they are told to f**k off to aviance.
This new attitude has seen a couple of crap contracts go but a major one with easy has been gained and the yanks love the idea and are queing up.
On a different note, Is it true that BMI are trying to get out of the contract with aviance early ? This would answer the question on why there is an embargo on capital expediture at the moment.
p.s. I agree with everyone else about CLP. Whoever dreamed that one up needs to get back to reality.
The new policy is to get all staff trained up to a decent level of competence so that the level of service is equal at all stations.
And when it comes to contract negotiations the policy will be to tell airlines what service they are going to be given and what it will cost, if the airline does not like the bill then rather than slash the cost they are told to f**k off to aviance.
This new attitude has seen a couple of crap contracts go but a major one with easy has been gained and the yanks love the idea and are queing up.
On a different note, Is it true that BMI are trying to get out of the contract with aviance early ? This would answer the question on why there is an embargo on capital expediture at the moment.
p.s. I agree with everyone else about CLP. Whoever dreamed that one up needs to get back to reality.
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nibor:
if what your saying is true it would explain a lot at Leeds, the management seemed to fight on and on until they the contract for the low cost airline Jet2 and now they are counting the cost., and would rather not have it anymore, plus Jet2 are a pain in the arse. want ever the airline it is always going to cost X for a turnaround and airlines are gona have to pay this whether they are low cost or not.
Cheers!!!!
if what your saying is true it would explain a lot at Leeds, the management seemed to fight on and on until they the contract for the low cost airline Jet2 and now they are counting the cost., and would rather not have it anymore, plus Jet2 are a pain in the arse. want ever the airline it is always going to cost X for a turnaround and airlines are gona have to pay this whether they are low cost or not.
Cheers!!!!