Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Shortage
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Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Shortage
Attn: Engineers, Techs, Mechs & Accountable/Maintenance
Managers in the MRO industry
Is it just me or is the shortage of LAE's getting worse?
I've had 5 phone calls in the past few days from different
agencies asking for my availability to work elsewhere
with starting dates for next week...
I haven't got any cover on the most desireable types
ie: B737NG/A320/B777 but a couple of agencies did
stipulate that an ICAO basic AML + TR & Experience
are now being accepted in lieu of EASA Part 66 with
certain Middle Eastern/Far Eastern MROs.
Can anyone comment?
BAe146???
Managers in the MRO industry
Is it just me or is the shortage of LAE's getting worse?
I've had 5 phone calls in the past few days from different
agencies asking for my availability to work elsewhere
with starting dates for next week...
I haven't got any cover on the most desireable types
ie: B737NG/A320/B777 but a couple of agencies did
stipulate that an ICAO basic AML + TR & Experience
are now being accepted in lieu of EASA Part 66 with
certain Middle Eastern/Far Eastern MROs.
Can anyone comment?
BAe146???
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It would appear that one UK agency is resorting to recruiting in Hungary for positions in the UK - see link below...
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/emp...82&vacID=77019
This is despite the Hungarian CAA still not being on the list of EASA NAAs
that mutually accept eachother's Part 66 AMLs - see link below...
http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/QS/AMO%20...icences-v2.pdf
I know a few LAEs that really are benefitting financially out there
due to these shortages (good for them) but is this not a symptom of absolutely crap planning & organisation with negative long term effects?
BAe146?????
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/emp...82&vacID=77019
This is despite the Hungarian CAA still not being on the list of EASA NAAs
that mutually accept eachother's Part 66 AMLs - see link below...
http://www.easa.eu.int/doc/QS/AMO%20...icences-v2.pdf
I know a few LAEs that really are benefitting financially out there
due to these shortages (good for them) but is this not a symptom of absolutely crap planning & organisation with negative long term effects?
BAe146?????
The number of licensed engineers heading towards retirement is escalating.
Years ago a friend described our operation as being
"an old folks home with helicopters"
Well I've now become one of the old folks and what is scary is that there are no young engineers to make similar rude comments.
I estimate the average age where I work to be over 50.
Years ago a friend described our operation as being
"an old folks home with helicopters"
Well I've now become one of the old folks and what is scary is that there are no young engineers to make similar rude comments.
I estimate the average age where I work to be over 50.
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Shortages
S'funny, but as the likes of British Airways, (an industry driver), attempts to obliterate the LAE at every opportunity, they drive away guys in position or those that want to start. All to drive down their own costs. The new religion is the worship of money, profit and budgets. Now and not tomorrow. Greed.
The ultimate result of this pseudo religion is people working for peanuts like in the good ol' USA. I've heard guys and girls there often have second jobs to keep their heads above water financially.
The job IMHO just isn't worth the hassle anymore of debilitating, life shortening shifts, with huge resonsibilities. Mostly played down by managers until something awful happens. Self studying whilst on crap shifts. Far better to get an MBA and short cut into a desk. One can then sit there bemoaning the fact that there aren't enough maintenance engineers and screw those that are left under the guise of 'Change'.
There is no way on this Gods earth that I would allow any of my offspring into an aviation engineering job.
The ultimate result of this pseudo religion is people working for peanuts like in the good ol' USA. I've heard guys and girls there often have second jobs to keep their heads above water financially.
The job IMHO just isn't worth the hassle anymore of debilitating, life shortening shifts, with huge resonsibilities. Mostly played down by managers until something awful happens. Self studying whilst on crap shifts. Far better to get an MBA and short cut into a desk. One can then sit there bemoaning the fact that there aren't enough maintenance engineers and screw those that are left under the guise of 'Change'.
There is no way on this Gods earth that I would allow any of my offspring into an aviation engineering job.
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A lot of it has to do with the change over the the EASA licence....... I know of at least 5 people that have simply walked away from the job as they are fed up of being served cr*p for poor wages, and that is from an area about 100 meters square........... so times that by a country and you can understand the shortage...........
One of the basic reasons I was given was "I have trained for X years to get this licence, I have worked on xyz for 20 years plus and now they say my licence coverage is not sufficent to carry on doing the same job without spending a fortune on additional training".......... walk away time....... and they do in droves..
That and the aging population problem...... perhaps it will drive wages up to a realistic figure............. myself? well It would not be a lie when I say I am looking round too, and out of this country as the Labour Party has screwed that up right and proper......
One of the basic reasons I was given was "I have trained for X years to get this licence, I have worked on xyz for 20 years plus and now they say my licence coverage is not sufficent to carry on doing the same job without spending a fortune on additional training".......... walk away time....... and they do in droves..
That and the aging population problem...... perhaps it will drive wages up to a realistic figure............. myself? well It would not be a lie when I say I am looking round too, and out of this country as the Labour Party has screwed that up right and proper......
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A Local Example
The demand for certifying as well as non-certifying
staff in Exeter has always been there, even more so now
since we acquired another airline.. In short, not very many
Engineers or Pilots chose to stay with the company, due in
part to the low renumeration / relocation amongst other things.
End result - remaining LAE's typically cover 2-4 A/C
on base maintenance and regularly get sent to
the thinly manned line stations to cover Check A's or
AOG/Snags.
The company Part 145 Approvals are :.
under threat.
In addition, the latest batch of Bristol / AST people are
not that technically impressive (at least the ones I work with).
They have learnt the minimum to scrape the exams/essays -
this is not enough to keep A/C airworthy - it becomes painfully
obvious when troubleshooting. Easy to xfer to ADD though?
In closing, the UK pool of trained, experienced, actually capable
Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (Licensed/Unlicensed) is getting shallower
by the week - the UKCAA refuses to intervene in 'personnel issues' &
the international example that used to be BA seems to be screwing
over the few remaining good engineers with the AMS scheme.
The sad thing is, I'm not expecting any change soon.
BAe146?? And hands-off industry leaders??
staff in Exeter has always been there, even more so now
since we acquired another airline.. In short, not very many
Engineers or Pilots chose to stay with the company, due in
part to the low renumeration / relocation amongst other things.
End result - remaining LAE's typically cover 2-4 A/C
on base maintenance and regularly get sent to
the thinly manned line stations to cover Check A's or
AOG/Snags.
The company Part 145 Approvals are :.
under threat.
In addition, the latest batch of Bristol / AST people are
not that technically impressive (at least the ones I work with).
They have learnt the minimum to scrape the exams/essays -
this is not enough to keep A/C airworthy - it becomes painfully
obvious when troubleshooting. Easy to xfer to ADD though?
In closing, the UK pool of trained, experienced, actually capable
Aircraft Maintenance Engineers (Licensed/Unlicensed) is getting shallower
by the week - the UKCAA refuses to intervene in 'personnel issues' &
the international example that used to be BA seems to be screwing
over the few remaining good engineers with the AMS scheme.
The sad thing is, I'm not expecting any change soon.
BAe146?? And hands-off industry leaders??
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Ok, not sorry for starting the thread, I'm sorry for hijacking...
As well as the shortage of LAE's, are there a lot of vacancies
requesting full B1/B2 cover on specific aircraft types or what?
We're all aware of how certain JAA/EASA NAA's awarded their
'approved personnel' JAR/EASA Pt 66 AMLs - some full B1 including
full B2. Maybe these personnel from these NAA's are now unfairly
prefered (Actual trade capabilities aside for a moment) because
of those actions, who knows?
Apart from some very talented and capable individuals out there
that have truly earnt and can identify themselves as full B1/B2, is there now not a pressure placed upon the rest of us to obtain further qualification simply to remain equivalent?
It is an acheivement none the less to academically earn B1/B2
status but experience would suggest that for example, all a B2 would
have to do to earn B1 practical experience would be too 'look over the shoulder of a B1 carrying out a B1 task' and collect the specific AMM reference. This is the equivalent of what occurs today for a B1 to obtain the 'avionic/electrical practical' element to qualify for basic B1 AML issue.
Essential practical skillsets are not being transferred correctly OR even proven.
For any manager totally unaware of actual events at shop floor level,
all this takes place today. Directly or indirectly you appear to endorse it.
Either way, the high standards of aircraft maintenance are being eroded.
Especially here in the UK, once percieved as the best.
How can any industry attract the right talent when it appears to
not address in full the concerns of those presently working harder
then ever within it?
Bae146???
As well as the shortage of LAE's, are there a lot of vacancies
requesting full B1/B2 cover on specific aircraft types or what?
We're all aware of how certain JAA/EASA NAA's awarded their
'approved personnel' JAR/EASA Pt 66 AMLs - some full B1 including
full B2. Maybe these personnel from these NAA's are now unfairly
prefered (Actual trade capabilities aside for a moment) because
of those actions, who knows?
Apart from some very talented and capable individuals out there
that have truly earnt and can identify themselves as full B1/B2, is there now not a pressure placed upon the rest of us to obtain further qualification simply to remain equivalent?
It is an acheivement none the less to academically earn B1/B2
status but experience would suggest that for example, all a B2 would
have to do to earn B1 practical experience would be too 'look over the shoulder of a B1 carrying out a B1 task' and collect the specific AMM reference. This is the equivalent of what occurs today for a B1 to obtain the 'avionic/electrical practical' element to qualify for basic B1 AML issue.
Essential practical skillsets are not being transferred correctly OR even proven.
For any manager totally unaware of actual events at shop floor level,
all this takes place today. Directly or indirectly you appear to endorse it.
Either way, the high standards of aircraft maintenance are being eroded.
Especially here in the UK, once percieved as the best.
How can any industry attract the right talent when it appears to
not address in full the concerns of those presently working harder
then ever within it?
Bae146???
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We're all aware of how certain JAA/EASA NAA's awarded their
'approved personnel' JAR/EASA Pt 66 AMLs - some full B1 including
full B2. Maybe these personnel from these NAA's are now unfairly
prefered (Actual trade capabilities aside for a moment) because
of those actions, who knows?
'approved personnel' JAR/EASA Pt 66 AMLs - some full B1 including
full B2. Maybe these personnel from these NAA's are now unfairly
prefered (Actual trade capabilities aside for a moment) because
of those actions, who knows?
So we can't recruit anyone other than Brits or Germans to fill positions within our EASA Part 145 Approved Maintenance Organization. We are developing locals, but not fast enopugh to meet maintenance demand. So we are missing out on ripe business opportunities. Hang on in there chaps, LAES will eventually be in a similar position as pilotsin demanding and getting suitable salaries.
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Blacksheep
That same UKCAA seconded regional manager/Surveyor perhaps
won't mind commenting on conversions already carried out by
the SRG of 20+ British Airways Engineering Line Station staff
that previously held FAR Part 65 A&P holders with BA issued
approvals to restricted B1.1's then??
The fact that when other EASA NAA's where approached to
convert the staff involved, they were only offered Cat A.1's.
Did BA deem this as insufficient?
Perhaps an insight will explain why the ALAE(1981) are currently
pursuing a sample de-identified 'conversion report' under the
Freedom of Information Act, just to see the actual mechanics
of the converson process, identify what is acceptable and what is unacceptable.
http://www.alae.org.uk/site1/view_content.php?page=96
There has to be some great reason for the the new and elaborate construction of the UKCAA ELGD 2007 Section B
which has not made anything more transparent or importantly,
level. BA needed Line Station 'Approved Staff' foreign nationals
to be converted to Part 66 B1.1 before September 2006. If they
qualified somehow suddenly late last year, why they were not
converted before?? (Circa 2001) It remains a mystery.
Strings were pulled, AMLs issued. The UKCAA have proven they are
no different to any other NAA that will interpret regulations to what
suits for the right $$$$ As Ned says, its all about $$$$ really.
BAe146??
That same UKCAA seconded regional manager/Surveyor perhaps
won't mind commenting on conversions already carried out by
the SRG of 20+ British Airways Engineering Line Station staff
that previously held FAR Part 65 A&P holders with BA issued
approvals to restricted B1.1's then??
The fact that when other EASA NAA's where approached to
convert the staff involved, they were only offered Cat A.1's.
Did BA deem this as insufficient?
Perhaps an insight will explain why the ALAE(1981) are currently
pursuing a sample de-identified 'conversion report' under the
Freedom of Information Act, just to see the actual mechanics
of the converson process, identify what is acceptable and what is unacceptable.
http://www.alae.org.uk/site1/view_content.php?page=96
There has to be some great reason for the the new and elaborate construction of the UKCAA ELGD 2007 Section B
which has not made anything more transparent or importantly,
level. BA needed Line Station 'Approved Staff' foreign nationals
to be converted to Part 66 B1.1 before September 2006. If they
qualified somehow suddenly late last year, why they were not
converted before?? (Circa 2001) It remains a mystery.
Strings were pulled, AMLs issued. The UKCAA have proven they are
no different to any other NAA that will interpret regulations to what
suits for the right $$$$ As Ned says, its all about $$$$ really.
BAe146??
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146,
With regard to the shortage, your lot in Exeter had a shortage when I was contracting there 15 years ago and had a habit of paying less than agricultural wages. Nothing has obviously been learned since then if your problem still persists.
The problem is not going to go away but it is also not helped by the industry not helping people to get on the ladder by offering work experience places, how many peole have been to collegue and have ended up walking away after 2 or 3 years because they can't get a placement?
With regard to the shortage, your lot in Exeter had a shortage when I was contracting there 15 years ago and had a habit of paying less than agricultural wages. Nothing has obviously been learned since then if your problem still persists.
The problem is not going to go away but it is also not helped by the industry not helping people to get on the ladder by offering work experience places, how many peole have been to collegue and have ended up walking away after 2 or 3 years because they can't get a placement?
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Quichemech
Totally in agreement - You were there 15 years ago?
We've grown quite a bit in that time, more a/c, bigger facility etc..
Decide for yourself and see what incentive there is now...
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com...structure2.pdf
The turnover of staff I have witnessed at this facility in the time
I have been employed there beggars belief. There is nil focus on staff retention. Concerns have been raised with the UKCAA, concerns have been monitored (seemingly ignored) by the UKCAA.
As far as retaining the training staff, a key B2 instuctor handed his
notice in a few days ago. We effectively have no full time avionic instructors now.
This is not indicative of a healthy UKCAA/EASA Part 145 Maintenance Facility.
Bae146???
Totally in agreement - You were there 15 years ago?
We've grown quite a bit in that time, more a/c, bigger facility etc..
Decide for yourself and see what incentive there is now...
http://www.nextgenerationairline.com...structure2.pdf
The turnover of staff I have witnessed at this facility in the time
I have been employed there beggars belief. There is nil focus on staff retention. Concerns have been raised with the UKCAA, concerns have been monitored (seemingly ignored) by the UKCAA.
As far as retaining the training staff, a key B2 instuctor handed his
notice in a few days ago. We effectively have no full time avionic instructors now.
This is not indicative of a healthy UKCAA/EASA Part 145 Maintenance Facility.
Bae146???
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sir pratt
ave age at your work shows good experience, young guys have and always will move around for their o.e. and are not tied down with kids etc not because the $$ is not enough. I would however like to know how profitable an airline can remain when paying rcm's 35 quid an hour, what are the licenced guys on?
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Very interesting debate. Having just finished my academic B1 training i am finding it very difficult to get a job now, like it has already been mentioned They are only advertising for full B1 and B2 engineers with type ratings and experience. How is it possible to get this experience if no one is willing to give u a chance?
Fao BA146 i agree wth the standard of students the college is sending out is generally very poor, I believe i have the level of technical knowledge i need to be a trainee B1 engineer. However if i hadnt have had the background in aircraft maintance ( my experience is very limited though) i would be reluctant to take anybody on as the college has taught us just to pass exams.
Fao BA146 i agree wth the standard of students the college is sending out is generally very poor, I believe i have the level of technical knowledge i need to be a trainee B1 engineer. However if i hadnt have had the background in aircraft maintance ( my experience is very limited though) i would be reluctant to take anybody on as the college has taught us just to pass exams.
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You tried Exeter? they are always advertising........... also try looking on
the likes of
http://www.matchtech.com/job/134143/
the experience might screw you though
or
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/
the likes of
http://www.matchtech.com/job/134143/
the experience might screw you though
or
http://www.aviationjobsearch.com/
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Interesting Thread,
I left the industry last year I was engineer over twenty years experience with multiple ratings. The lack of respect for such a highly skilled job which requires five times the cognition of our pilot brothers for a quarter of the salary, was another factor. I am still kind of involved as I am a loss adjuster in London, but to quite honest happy to be out.
I hope that one day it will change for the sake of so many good guys still in the industry who produce amazing results against all the odds (i.e poor management, less than worthy pilots, and excessive working hours due to the overall shortage in the first place!).
I left the industry last year I was engineer over twenty years experience with multiple ratings. The lack of respect for such a highly skilled job which requires five times the cognition of our pilot brothers for a quarter of the salary, was another factor. I am still kind of involved as I am a loss adjuster in London, but to quite honest happy to be out.
I hope that one day it will change for the sake of so many good guys still in the industry who produce amazing results against all the odds (i.e poor management, less than worthy pilots, and excessive working hours due to the overall shortage in the first place!).
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Guess I might as well ask here... as I have been looking at becoming an avionics technician.
It looks like some of the pay rates here in NZ are ridiculous. One company has offered me a job, paying the same rate as when I graduated with a certificate in electronics 9 years ago. Another company is offering the same rate as I was on 3 years ago. This is $7000 and a company car short of what I can make comissioning comercial air conditioning systems.
Is there really a shortage of technicians or are the companies just dreaming when it comes to pay rates? What is a realistic pay rate I can expect to get both starting out in electronics and once certified?
It looks like some of the pay rates here in NZ are ridiculous. One company has offered me a job, paying the same rate as when I graduated with a certificate in electronics 9 years ago. Another company is offering the same rate as I was on 3 years ago. This is $7000 and a company car short of what I can make comissioning comercial air conditioning systems.
Is there really a shortage of technicians or are the companies just dreaming when it comes to pay rates? What is a realistic pay rate I can expect to get both starting out in electronics and once certified?
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it is just as f#cked down in Australia,last year was made redundant at Qantas Heavy Maint in Sydney on the 747 line with 450 other engineers,went looking for work within the industry and the best offer i was given was $40,000 pa and thats with 20 years industry experience,left the game and now i earn twice as much working in retail.I WILL NEVER RETURN TO THE INDUSTRY AGAIN,NOT UNLESS THEY START TO OFFER STARTING WAGES OF 1OOK,AND I DON'T THINK THAT WILL EVER HAPPEN,oh yeah and i now have a social life,life is great.
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Leaving the industry
Buddy I am teetering on the edge of this right now.
30 years experience avionics with cover on several types
Retail is one of the options! But I've got my eye on a nice little broom. All I need is a village somewhere to sweep.
30 years experience avionics with cover on several types
Retail is one of the options! But I've got my eye on a nice little broom. All I need is a village somewhere to sweep.
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Another Angle
I know this is not exactly on the theme of this thread but as a mere pilot I dunno much about the practicalities of the engineering world. You mention Licensed engineers but aren't you all going to come under the new EASA thing and see licenses vanish?
I would be interested to know how licensing changes under EASA, someone told me that the employer issues them thereafter!? Tell me this isn't true!?
I would be interested to know how licensing changes under EASA, someone told me that the employer issues them thereafter!? Tell me this isn't true!?