Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Shortage
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 168
From: Station 42
To be fair, I've had Brunel lads (both on work experience and with shiny new LWTR Section Ls) alongside me in the hangar and they were generally all right except for being a bit slow and underconfident to begin with. It's quite a jump from the classroom to the hangar floor and they need time to find their feet. Give them simple jobs initially and more challenging tasks as they progress. A good minder will keep an eye on them, handing out advice, insults and grudging compliments in equal measures. YOU could be the guy they remember fondly in twenty years time...
I've also met a couple of plonkers as well, with an 'I know it all' attitude but they usually get sorted out.
I've also met a couple of plonkers as well, with an 'I know it all' attitude but they usually get sorted out.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
From: Uk
It's quite a jump from the classroom to the hangar floor and they need time to find their feet. Give them simple jobs initially and more challenging tasks as they progress. A good minder will keep an eye on them, handing out advice, insults and grudging compliments in equal measures
You've almost just described an actual apprenticeship. But these guys already have the bits of paper required to be licenced engineers
So what happens in a line enviornment?
Remember these lads already have the bits of paper, there's no time for them to find their feet, nobody to mind them and when the snags start coming there's no simple tasks! And there will be more than just insults in equal measures.
How does a young person with a big loan for their education and in a position of great responsibility, in their first job deal with commercial pressure?
I don't really want to take away from the effort these guys and gals put in but you just can't beat a good apprenticeship.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 59
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From: Cambridge
The 'know it all attitude' is quite common amongst alot of students, however-that's the same in most industies. Myself a humble person...
I hope you understand that it's not as easy as just passing the exams?
The logbook has to be filled with entries from each chapters, then you have to show preficiency in each area of aircraft maintenance. Not just two years of any 'work'. Actual signed of logsheets (2-3 yrs) worth.
As for the apprenticeship being any better? im not sure how you have come to a definitive conclusion considering the masses of variables involved.
Anyway..time to move on.
As soon as I get my license im leaving the industry, mainly due to the the whole school ground environment which exists within most hangers. Nothing against individuals, just those that exercise their 'experience' as being a weapon for arrogance and not using it appropriatly, i.e. helping others.
Most Tech's ive worked for have been superb, although there is always the underlying issue of what they really think???
Thanks Steve for your positive input, nice to see you understand my point more than the other so called 'grown' men.
I hope you understand that it's not as easy as just passing the exams?
The logbook has to be filled with entries from each chapters, then you have to show preficiency in each area of aircraft maintenance. Not just two years of any 'work'. Actual signed of logsheets (2-3 yrs) worth.
As for the apprenticeship being any better? im not sure how you have come to a definitive conclusion considering the masses of variables involved.
Anyway..time to move on.
As soon as I get my license im leaving the industry, mainly due to the the whole school ground environment which exists within most hangers. Nothing against individuals, just those that exercise their 'experience' as being a weapon for arrogance and not using it appropriatly, i.e. helping others.
Most Tech's ive worked for have been superb, although there is always the underlying issue of what they really think???
Thanks Steve for your positive input, nice to see you understand my point more than the other so called 'grown' men.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 3,038
Likes: 52
From: .
If you are talking about europe then the answer is a definate NO at this time, it just simply isn 't recognised there.
I believe places that acept an ICAO type 2 licence wouldn't have a problem, Dubai for example you would have to sit an exam on legislation and the rest would be recognised for conversion.
When you think that the HKG system was set up by the UK CAA and is almost verbatum the same as EASA regs then it would be easy, but I can assure you it isn't.
I believe places that acept an ICAO type 2 licence wouldn't have a problem, Dubai for example you would have to sit an exam on legislation and the rest would be recognised for conversion.
When you think that the HKG system was set up by the UK CAA and is almost verbatum the same as EASA regs then it would be easy, but I can assure you it isn't.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Cambridge
'You've almost just described an actual apprenticeship. But these guys already have the bits of paper required to be licenced engineers'.
not true...
You have to satisfy the CAA, (the same people that issued you'r license)that you have competent practical skills and experience-and that's not easy. Which AGAIN takes 2-3 years, normally 3 years of consistent work.
That gives 2years (exams/practical, including filing, working on dead aircraft etc) + 3 years practical, over all of the chapters. Then a type course 2 months, plus 6 months experience on type, after you have please QA.
That's around 5 years! so don't be fooled into thinking its just about having the 'paper bits'.
not true...
You have to satisfy the CAA, (the same people that issued you'r license)that you have competent practical skills and experience-and that's not easy. Which AGAIN takes 2-3 years, normally 3 years of consistent work.
That gives 2years (exams/practical, including filing, working on dead aircraft etc) + 3 years practical, over all of the chapters. Then a type course 2 months, plus 6 months experience on type, after you have please QA.
That's around 5 years! so don't be fooled into thinking its just about having the 'paper bits'.
Last edited by grababadger; 22nd August 2007 at 16:19.
Thought police antagonist
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 349
From: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
grababadger,
If it's not a daft question....why do you intend to get your licence...and then leave the industry?. This would, being logical, seem to be a counter productive course of action to take if you really want to change direction.
As for the apprenticeship issue, I wouldn't get overly concerned. When apprenticeships were the normal route, there were plenty of antagonists around who felt that unless you had completed a BA / BEA / BOAC / Woodford / Chadderton / Chester / Dunsfold etc etc version ( select location of choice here ) you had not done a "proper" apprenticeship.....as I was duly informed by at least 3 "managers" over the years in respect of my sabbatical at the Halton Hilton....the same comments were also applied to those trained in the FAA by the way.
If it's not a daft question....why do you intend to get your licence...and then leave the industry?. This would, being logical, seem to be a counter productive course of action to take if you really want to change direction.
As for the apprenticeship issue, I wouldn't get overly concerned. When apprenticeships were the normal route, there were plenty of antagonists around who felt that unless you had completed a BA / BEA / BOAC / Woodford / Chadderton / Chester / Dunsfold etc etc version ( select location of choice here ) you had not done a "proper" apprenticeship.....as I was duly informed by at least 3 "managers" over the years in respect of my sabbatical at the Halton Hilton....the same comments were also applied to those trained in the FAA by the way.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Cambridge
kystal and chips,
Im learning to fly at the moment and have been advised by the CAA to get the B1 license as it will give me a better chance of getting a job. Im hoping to do some charity work in AFRICA, as a pilot-so the License may come in handy, where pilots/engineers are required.Plus if it all falls through I might have no choice but to fall back into engineering.
Im learning to fly at the moment and have been advised by the CAA to get the B1 license as it will give me a better chance of getting a job. Im hoping to do some charity work in AFRICA, as a pilot-so the License may come in handy, where pilots/engineers are required.Plus if it all falls through I might have no choice but to fall back into engineering.
Thought police antagonist
Joined: Jul 2003
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,574
Likes: 349
From: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
grababadger,
Well if that's your intention, your not as daft as you sound
Best of luck to you and your chosen area of work
Well if that's your intention, your not as daft as you sound
Best of luck to you and your chosen area of work
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Europe
I am starting a new job on monday I have B1/B2/C license and only turboprop experience still they gave me the job although they were searching for md 80 and b737 experienced guys so i think there is a shortage in engineers.
Furthermore I saw someone express conserns about to low quality on newly graduated engineers, I have also experienced the same during the last 2-3 years, I feel the lack of basic handworking skills and fault isolation skills. What is worse I´ve also seen totally fresh guys coming out with the attitude of "I know it all, been there done that", I told one guy lets see how tough you are when you are alone at night in the rain or snow with a nice wiring problem on a 30 year old aircraft where wiring tags are "a bit worn" or maybe a nice old fuel or oil leak and the flight ops guys(nothing against you ops guys) pushing for departure...
When I first got out on my first job you looked up to the guys with experience ( I am not saying to not ask questions or discuss the job)
When my licence was issued the CAA inspector looked me in the eyes and said this is no free pass to aviation work it is your Licence to learn!
I think that is a quite good way of looking at your licence no matter how old or experienced you are...
As for you fresh guys out there treat your mentors (or whatever you want to call them) with respect and they will give you respect back.
Furthermore I saw someone express conserns about to low quality on newly graduated engineers, I have also experienced the same during the last 2-3 years, I feel the lack of basic handworking skills and fault isolation skills. What is worse I´ve also seen totally fresh guys coming out with the attitude of "I know it all, been there done that", I told one guy lets see how tough you are when you are alone at night in the rain or snow with a nice wiring problem on a 30 year old aircraft where wiring tags are "a bit worn" or maybe a nice old fuel or oil leak and the flight ops guys(nothing against you ops guys) pushing for departure...
When I first got out on my first job you looked up to the guys with experience ( I am not saying to not ask questions or discuss the job)
When my licence was issued the CAA inspector looked me in the eyes and said this is no free pass to aviation work it is your Licence to learn!
I think that is a quite good way of looking at your licence no matter how old or experienced you are...
As for you fresh guys out there treat your mentors (or whatever you want to call them) with respect and they will give you respect back.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Here is the stats on what is happening in Australia.
http://www.casa.gov.au/ame/amestats.htm
Interesting but not suprised to see the downward trend in the 21 to 30 age group. It would be interesting to see someone put in airframe numbers over the same period.
http://www.casa.gov.au/ame/amestats.htm
Interesting but not suprised to see the downward trend in the 21 to 30 age group. It would be interesting to see someone put in airframe numbers over the same period.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: UK
Checkout Ryanair - Awesome Pay and Benefits
I have seen a few comments here regarding the wages etc for us engineers that they seem to be quite low, i have just started up as an outstation with Ryanair and the pay is pretty good, i get to move around to spain etc and get some good benefits aswell, its good to get out of the cold into some good weather and a good roster aswell. im sure they have vacancies all over europe check out thier website for vacancies.. i think they are recruiting.
www.ryanair.com
www.ryanair.com
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: In the Hangar & on the Line
A small update to the original topic - EASA supposedly had a meeting
last week on Wednesday last week re-opening the issue of Working Group145-12.
It would appear that the shortage of correctly qualified maintenance
staff is troubling not only the industry but now EASA directly.
If any change were to be implemented, what would this mean to you
if there was a reduced requirement to hold a Part 66 AML or indeed
any ICAO Type I AML in the EC states??
BAe146??
last week on Wednesday last week re-opening the issue of Working Group145-12.
It would appear that the shortage of correctly qualified maintenance
staff is troubling not only the industry but now EASA directly.
If any change were to be implemented, what would this mean to you
if there was a reduced requirement to hold a Part 66 AML or indeed
any ICAO Type I AML in the EC states??
BAe146??
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: australia
They are looking at approving the Australian licence when the Australian Authority introduce the Easa style licencing system-B1 B2 etc. With this they hope Engineers will be able to travel accross borders subject to labour laws.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 57
From: Anglia
Correct me if I appear to have this wrong... but I am lead to believe that a lot of UK engineers have gone to Airbus and / or the Middle East, i.e. Dubai, to ease the burden on wallets and Bank Accounts, thus making an apparent shortage in UK's large aircraft industry.
I left the large ac world due to a form of progression in the helicopter world. I am 737 B1 rated, but with a helicopter background.
I also believe that some helicopter blokes have crossed to the Large side because of the shortage, thereby creating another shortage.
The thread seems to be that there is engineer movement throughout the aviation industry as money beckons to those that are looking - isnt that the way it was in the 80's?
I left the large ac world due to a form of progression in the helicopter world. I am 737 B1 rated, but with a helicopter background.
I also believe that some helicopter blokes have crossed to the Large side because of the shortage, thereby creating another shortage.
The thread seems to be that there is engineer movement throughout the aviation industry as money beckons to those that are looking - isnt that the way it was in the 80's?
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: Sandpit
Certainly hope that EASA doesnt admit OZ engineers. They say that they will accept your licence, however you have to do Air Leg (no problem) but also you will find that trade tests will have to be done and maybe modules, definately hurdles will be put in your way.
The Unions certainly don't want you and really niether do the OZ engineers.
The Unions certainly don't want you and really niether do the OZ engineers.