Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Shortage

[Beeline]

On the introduction of EASA, licenced engineers under BCAR Section L could convert there licence to a restricted Catagory B Part-66 licence. Guys and gals with limited company Authorisation were entitled to the A-licence, this was all under 'privileged rights'.
The interpretation of the rights by some companies/operators was open to question, enabling with some manipulation the conversion of only a company authorisation to a full catagory 'B' licence!
A major operator, forementioned, has recently proposed to EASA too scrap the licence and have only company authorised staff with the priviledges of a 'B' licence holder! Luckily this was thrown out but shows a total disregard to our proffesional status by senior management.

[Shoo shoo]

EASA etc

Thanks Beeline,

I'm not up to speed on the Engineering licensing system so I'm not sure what A or B actually means but you seem to be saying companies will not be dishing out licenses after all?

So, who will under EASA then? Will the CAA continue to as is?

[Beeline]

Under current legislation the CAA issues an Aircraft Maintenence Licence if the requirements of EC regulation 2042/2003 annex III Part-66 have been met. The criterion is that sufficent theoretical and practical experience have been acheived over a period of x years; this includes exams, essays and log book experience. Up until the 28/09/06 a CAA Section L licence under the BCAR system could be converted to a part-66 licence.

Within the BCAR system different catagories entitled the holder to issue CRSs of which he held on his/her licence; for example a mechanical licence would consist of A-airframes and C-engines, an avionic licence would include X-Electrical, X-Autopilot, Instruments, radio/radar etc.
The current EASA system brings all these seperate certifying catagories under one licence e.g A&C = B1, Avionics = B2, The official title is Line Maintenance mechanical/avionic Technician.

The A-licence is a new catagory for Line maintenance Mechanics, this was just a company authorisation in the old system. It entitles the holder a Limited authorisation of 21 ramp items that he/she may certify.

The licence in any catagory is a basic licence and thus a prerequesite. Further type training must be endorsed on the licence, the level the training is pitched at depends on the catagory held e.g B1/B2 full maintainence course level 3 (approx 12 weeks), A-licence ramp course level 1-2(approx 3 weeks).

Hope that clarifies the muddy minefield that is european legislation!!

[spannersatcx]

The categories within the aircraft maintenance licence are:
Category A Maintenance Certifying Mechanic
Category B1 Maintenance Certifying Technician (Mechanical)
Category B2 Maintenance Certifying Technician (Avionic)
Category C Base Maintenance Certifying Engineer
Category A is further divided into sub categories as follows:
A1 Aeroplanes Turbine
A2 Aeroplanes Piston
A3 Helicopters Turbine
A4 Helicopters Piston
The sub categories for Category B Line Maintenance Certifying Technician/Base Maintenance Technician are:
B1.1 Aeroplanes Turbine
B1.2 Aeroplanes Piston
B1.3 Helicopters Turbine
B1.4 Helicopters Piston
B2 Avionics (no further sub division).

[Kulwin Park]

Smudge Cat ... our wages were never reduced ... THEY JUST NEVER WENT UP!!!!

I havent thought about this much, but there are 5 sides to an aircraft operation, with many fixed costs ... BUT, one of the costs that can be debated between owner/operator to reduce overall business costs is MAINTENANCE. All other airport charges, fuel, airways charges, registrations, building leases, etc are all fixed. Wages & Maintenance are all variable, so to keep variable costs down, they will ultimately argue with maintenance - thus Chief Engineer feels the squeeze, and hires engineers for less pay, so the business can still make a profit. ... The pilots wages aren't reduced due to they need the most experienced pilots they can get to not give their company operation a bad name. Pilots are a necessity - Engineers are a burden.

Anyway, thats one little theory that has stuck in my head, but unless people have a better one, would love to hear it ....

Cheers, KP

[Mr.Brown]

i agree wth the standard of students the college is sending out is generally very poor, I believe i have the level of technical knowledge i need to be a trainee B1 engineer

There is a massive downfall in the industry nowadays in that no one is doing apprenticships, you can just go to college pass all the exames obtain the relevent experience (which is nothing to the level of an apprenticship). These lads out of college just need their sheets signed to get their B1's or B2's.
I had to graft for four years, before being given the tilte of mech/fitter. Then and only when you had the relevent experience you could apply for your airframe or engine or electrics or radar or radio etc etc.
No disrespect to those from this new system( I'm sure it's a hard couple of years) but it's because of this that the wages will fall in the future.
Too many are there just waiting for the experience without any idea of whats in store for them.No idea that a 757 PRSOV change can make grown men cry, that nappies really do get stuck in toilet dumpvalves or even worse (Vacuum toilet's)
Experience should have to gained before you do exames, this will not only eliminate the boys but will again improve the standard of engineers/technicians.
Oral exames should come back as our NAA's have no idea who they are giving all that reponsibility too.

[smudgethecat]

Well said Mr Brown, agree with all your points.

[WOTME?]

I had 26 years in the industry before I passed my Section L A & C.
Passed both the orals & the only thing that stopped me doing mods 20 & 21 was the thought of an electrical oral.
I now have full B1 on my current types - that means I am an electrician!
No way would I have passed an electrical oral when I got the restrictions lifted.
The standards have been lowered.
Maybe this is warranted by the more modern types,but there are still a lot of the old ones out there.

[theavionicsbloke]

There Is Not A Lack Of Engineers

Hi Guys.

I am sick and fed up the industry moaning about not having Engineers.

I have just converted my licence from BCAR Sec L to Part 66.

I came out of the industry but still work Part Time Contracting. Aviation is in my blood and miss being around aircraft every day all day and love the job.

However, I earn 2 x the amount I can in aviation in my alternative trade.

I have an Unrestricted B2 restricted B1 & C with some 20 types with 20years experience. None of them are wide bodies.

What makes me mad is despite the above, companies are still asking for experience & a type rating on the wide bodies and refuse to offer training. Tossed a side like some used carboard Oil Filler funnel!

so Companies, we are here, You have pleanty of Engineers, but you have to Train us on Type & renumerate us well.

WHEN WILL YOU GET THE MESSAGE ??
There is not a lack of Engineers.
Just a lack of Engineers willing to work for peanuts and get treated like dirt!

We have united and voted with our feet and I am afraid the Industry gets what it has deserved for a long time

[Mr.Brown]

I now have full B1 on my current types - that means I am an electrician!
No way would I have passed an electrical oral when I got the restrictions lifted.

I too have, since converting Passed my electrical modules and now have B1 electrics on my types ( but I'm no electrician) and there is no way I would have passed an oral.
Bring back the oral and seperate the Licence again so you can do one at a time.

[NutLoose]

The standards were lowered when EASA was formed, period.....
They had to set a standard for all Countries to attain, and I firmly believe they used probably the least regulated Country as the benchmark...... that was possibly somewhere like Greece...... And NO, I do not have anything against Greece or their engineering standards.

But I sat there amending page after page of MAMIS and the CAA Additional AD's by simply removing all the 737, 747 etc pages and dumpng them in the Bin...... I couldn't help thinking at the time, a lot of work and indeed a lot of money has gone into these and they were not issued purely for toilet paper...(ok some were) they were issued for flight safety issues and the fact I am now binning them is indicitive of a sudden and massive drop in the UK's Flight Safety standards.......

Nothing since has changed my mind...... topped of with the total lack of cohesion on licencing leaves people struggling to know what they can and cannot do and where to go, whilst the pile of toilet paper produced from Europe steadily increases at the cost of safety......

I did carefully remove the MAMIS sheets for Concorde when it finally went and kept them as a reminder of what we lost

[FHA]

Theavionicsbloke:
Good points there.
What other trade is it where you're making 2 x your aviation salary?
You have my full attention!
Regards,
Another avionics bloke.

[ericferret]

Don't be so sure about how much work went into those additional directives.

I worked for a UK distributor and every now and again the local CAA surveyer turned up with the latest pile of red edged bulletins and asked if any should receive AD status.

On the down side this was to the distributors benefit and not to the owners as they were forced to have the work done.

On the up side who actually knew more about the aircraft?

What was galling was when the bulletin was incorporated into the maintenance manual yet the AD remained in the additionals for no reason.

[ericferret]

It all seems to depend on who you apply too.

My last employer put me through 3 full airframe and engine type courses plus 2 avionics and electrical courses. Boroscope, engine running, airstair, RVSM, human factors, recurrent etc.

I estimate about 35 weeks training spread over 8 years with most of it in the first 3 years.

There are some companies that take training seriously.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

i had 20 yrs industry experience with a 744 license,last year me and 450 work mates where shown the door at Qantas HM syd,looked for for a short while,within the industry,but when i was getting offers of 40 to 45k PA,i figured it was time to leave the game,i am now earning at least double my LAME PAY IN RETAIL,and i also have a social life,i don't think i will ever return to the industry.

[Blacksheep]

1. Take your B777 to an MRO or two and start negotiating for routine maintenance and you're talking labour rates of US50 to US70 an hour. Throw in major repairs and it goes up to US120.

2. Take your BMW or Mercedes Benz to the local workshop and they're asking US90 an hour for a Service. Take it in for major damage repairs and labour rates aren't even on the table.

Labour rates don't translate directly into wages paid, but the fact is garage mechanics have been more in demend than aeroplane maintenance technicians and the relative wages reflected that. Many years ago I was on a B747 electrical course with an instrument supervisor who wasn't doing the course to get more qualifications and higher pay, he was doing it just to be able to retain his supervisor status and continue in the same job. He left before the end of the course to join Plessey - maintaining traffic lights along Western Avenue. No licences needed and with higher pay and better working hours.

Not much has changed in the intervening thirty years, but I believe that things may finally be about to change. Some of the European airlines calling us for slots aren't doing it because we're cheaper (which we are), its because the slots simply aren't available in Europe.

[Rigga]

Blacksheep,
You state prices as $ per Hour - it should be $ per Man-hour

BMW/Merc Maint uses 1-2 persons per day. 8-16 man-hours

B777 heavy Maint uses 20-30 persons per day, go figure.

Maintenance is not cheap, but wages for base maint generally are.

[Ladytech]

Shortage of Mechs?

Let's see-pilot walks away at the end of flight and tells you how much resposibility he has. We work on an aircraft system and have responsibility for that work until inspected or worked on again, and that could easily be over a year. We get approx 1/8 of the pay (considering
$per/hour, and time worked per year). Then we put up with the shifts,
the lack of facilities in all kinds of weather, incompetent supervision, and
companies that can't make a profit because costs are too high, so they send the jobs overseas (incompetent management). If the average person can't pay their bills- who do they expect to travel by air??? Besides -the average starting mechanic doesn't make enough to buy the tools they need!!
And now you wonder why their aren't enough skilled people?
It's no longer a career- it's just another job!!

[bora-bora]

Engineers

Engineers are being Recruited from Eastern Europe.

At first look these guys are all well qualified (B1 / B2) and they are also well experienced.

The system is letting the UK guys down, but with expansion of EASA there is a bigger pool if you know where to look!!

[Blacksheep]

You state prices as $ per Hour - it should be $ per Man-hour

Yes. I do contracts and we tend to get slack in our language - in our world it is taken as given that all labour rates are in man-hours. They are fully stated in black and white in the paperwork.

The question is why do you think that premium car companies have higher labour rates than aircraft MROs? Because their customers are able and willing to cough up rather than go without their precious Beemer for a few days, that's why. While I recognise the equivalent skill levels of the car mechanics, they do not carry the same responsibility levels as LAEs and its very discouraging to work in the current situation. Because airlines' customers now expect to fly halfway round the world for the price of a night out on the piss, the airlines don't have the cash to pay for maintenance. On the other hand, the regulations oblige them to have it done. So, they bargain maintenance rates down as low as they can go.

What is happening now is that MROs are running out of hangar slots and, with their customers having to outbid each other to get work done, are becoming able to resist the downward pressure on labour rates. Eventually MROs will also be in a position to outbid each other in their search for labour. The airlines will pass the increased cost on to passengers and the Shell Suit army will have to pay the proper fare for their journeys - even on LCCs. It won't happen overnight, and most of we old timers will be on our pensions before things really take off, but change is definitely on the way.