Closure of YMPC, YMEN and YMMB
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Closure of YMPC, YMEN and YMMB
What the hell is wrong with people these days?
Driving to Point Cook (usually fly)
today and saw signs displayed by neighbouring properties stating:
" Yes to RAAF Museum"
" No to Circuits and Civil Flying"
Then I remembered reading an article in the Age last year stating that residents are complaining about aircraft noise and to shut down YMEN. Apparently residents are scared of planes dropping into their backyards yet the last one I can remember was in the late 1970's.
Then with the recent tragedy at YMMB, the community is calling the aerodrome unsafe and are demanding it also to be shut down!
HOLY SMOKE!!! What am I missing here?
YMPC was the first airbase in Australia (1920) and has been in operation since then. It has such a huge history that is truly unbelievable and that museum is fantastic!
YMEN was Melbourne's International airport until YMML was built (which is now facing problems from residents settling around that airport) and YMMB has always been Melbourne's primary training airport (although I completed all my training at YMEN).
So the question I pose is; what came first?
The airport or the residents?
Clearly YMPC (Est. 1920) should have the right to choose and not the residents. They all choose to buy the cheap land, yet they cry poor when students do wide circuits over their precious display homes.
I can understand that with all the development around the Point Cook area, that water front land would obviously be worth some money. But you buy a block of land next to an airport, what do you expect?
No aircraft to land and depart while you sleep?
I was under the assumption that the land is owned by the Crown and could only be sold by state and federal governments. Does anyone know anything about this? (I am aware that Fox owns YMEN and YMAV).
This has got out of hand! People are waiting for aircraft to crash and as they continue too, the push for these wonderful airports to be shut down gathers speed.
It will be a sad day indeed if YMPC, YMEN or YMMB do close their doors due to civilian pressure.
Driving to Point Cook (usually fly)
today and saw signs displayed by neighbouring properties stating:" Yes to RAAF Museum"
" No to Circuits and Civil Flying"
Then I remembered reading an article in the Age last year stating that residents are complaining about aircraft noise and to shut down YMEN. Apparently residents are scared of planes dropping into their backyards yet the last one I can remember was in the late 1970's.
Then with the recent tragedy at YMMB, the community is calling the aerodrome unsafe and are demanding it also to be shut down!
HOLY SMOKE!!! What am I missing here?
YMPC was the first airbase in Australia (1920) and has been in operation since then. It has such a huge history that is truly unbelievable and that museum is fantastic!
YMEN was Melbourne's International airport until YMML was built (which is now facing problems from residents settling around that airport) and YMMB has always been Melbourne's primary training airport (although I completed all my training at YMEN).
So the question I pose is; what came first?
The airport or the residents?
Clearly YMPC (Est. 1920) should have the right to choose and not the residents. They all choose to buy the cheap land, yet they cry poor when students do wide circuits over their precious display homes.
I can understand that with all the development around the Point Cook area, that water front land would obviously be worth some money. But you buy a block of land next to an airport, what do you expect?
No aircraft to land and depart while you sleep?
I was under the assumption that the land is owned by the Crown and could only be sold by state and federal governments. Does anyone know anything about this? (I am aware that Fox owns YMEN and YMAV).
This has got out of hand! People are waiting for aircraft to crash and as they continue too, the push for these wonderful airports to be shut down gathers speed.
It will be a sad day indeed if YMPC, YMEN or YMMB do close their doors due to civilian pressure.
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This is the same situation as YSSY where many of the wingeing residents bought cheap land or houses and now want double glazed windows and fewer aircraft using the facility.
AND governments are dumb enough to listen!!
AND governments are dumb enough to listen!!
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Sad but true...............
Same thing happening all over the free world, back at NZPP people would call up the aeroclub and complain about ac noise (in the training area) and general environs ruining their G & T's etc....
The aerodrome was established many, many years before 90% of the current housing existed and once again the proximity of the field had an effect on the land values (cheaper).
Developers have squashed housing as close to the field as possible, people bought (cheaper) and now have the gall to complain about the noise (err, and the effect on land value (i want to sell it dearer)).
Yes they all cry safety, a plane could come crashing through my roof killing my sixteen children, should be banned.........., haven't you been reading the papers and how dangerous ac are?
In YSCB developers want to plonk a few hundred/thousand?? houses directly under the flight path of 35/17.
Yep!, can already hear the screams about ac noise from the silly badgers who will stupidly purchase blocks and build there (just like Jerrabomberra).
Same thing happening all over the free world, back at NZPP people would call up the aeroclub and complain about ac noise (in the training area) and general environs ruining their G & T's etc....
The aerodrome was established many, many years before 90% of the current housing existed and once again the proximity of the field had an effect on the land values (cheaper).
Developers have squashed housing as close to the field as possible, people bought (cheaper) and now have the gall to complain about the noise (err, and the effect on land value (i want to sell it dearer)).
Yes they all cry safety, a plane could come crashing through my roof killing my sixteen children, should be banned.........., haven't you been reading the papers and how dangerous ac are?
In YSCB developers want to plonk a few hundred/thousand?? houses directly under the flight path of 35/17.
Yep!, can already hear the screams about ac noise from the silly badgers who will stupidly purchase blocks and build there (just like Jerrabomberra).
Evertonian
Don't forget the air ambulance that went down ex MEB in what is now known as Gowanbrae. It was empty paddocks at the time!
I hope no one is talking about closing KAH!!!!
I hope no one is talking about closing KAH!!!!
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BEARs
Check out this fruitloop web site in Sydney.
Bankstown Airport Environs & Airport Resistance - BEARs.
Tossers.
Bankstown Airport Environs & Airport Resistance - BEARs.
Tossers.
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You think they might have taken the hint back when they first started buying up the land around Point Cook...
I was at 1FTS back in 198#, when a few subdivisions nearby were being flogged to those desperate enough to want to live between the Werribee sh#tfarm and (then) busy Point Cook. Most people were coming out to view the available sites on the weekend, when there was no flying going on (and therefore no obvious noise pollution). The first auction of sites was to take place one Saturday morning. The CO knew that long term, the RAAF would get grief from any residents in the new estate ignorant of the flying operations nearby, so it was only fair that they learnt what they were in for 5 out of 7 days per week. He organised a 'working weekend', and of course every second circuit required a practice EFATO with the plastic parrots regaining power (and noise) directly over the auction site. Alas, all in vain...
I was at 1FTS back in 198#, when a few subdivisions nearby were being flogged to those desperate enough to want to live between the Werribee sh#tfarm and (then) busy Point Cook. Most people were coming out to view the available sites on the weekend, when there was no flying going on (and therefore no obvious noise pollution). The first auction of sites was to take place one Saturday morning. The CO knew that long term, the RAAF would get grief from any residents in the new estate ignorant of the flying operations nearby, so it was only fair that they learnt what they were in for 5 out of 7 days per week. He organised a 'working weekend', and of course every second circuit required a practice EFATO with the plastic parrots regaining power (and noise) directly over the auction site. Alas, all in vain...
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closure of ympc,ymen & ymmb
My parents bought a 3 roomed bungalow in Halsey Road, Airport West and moved in when I was 2 weeks old - The hangar that it was 100 yards down the road from later became the TAA jet engine testing hangar and is (I think) now the Police Airwing
Hangar. My brothers, sister, 20 cousins and myself roamed around what was then known as "the paddock" for many hours every day. One of our favourite playgrounds was a derelict aircraft junkyard just across the road from our home. It was surrounded by a 6 foot high cyclone wire fence and guarded by 2 huge alsation dogs. We often used to swipe meat from the fridge to chuck over the fence for the dogs to distract them whilst we climbed the fence and barricaded ourselves inside whatever aircraft could be gotten into to play "pilots and hostesses!" The game would always be up when it came round to dinnertime at 6 o'clock and we'd be yelling our heads off for very irate parents to phone the owners of the junkyard to come and call off their dogs so we could go home. The airport became a very integral part of our lives and we watched its development with much interest and fascination. Our dad explained the workings of the jet engines to us and why it made so much noise. It didn't take long to get used to the noise and we would lay awake at night discussing what could possibly be so wrong with the engine that they had to test it all night long. We figured that they just had to get it right to go back on the plane for the morning. When I see the complexity and size of the current engine testing facility, I understand what progress has been made by aviation companies to attempt to exist with communities around them. The council of the day encouraged homeowners to move from a previously residential zoned area and reclassified it to light industrial. I hated the move across town to the north eastern suburbs. Unfortunately, greedy developers are continuously trying to make life difficult for the aviation industry - witness the closure of Casey Airfield at Berwick - land values soared so high the owners were made an offer they couldn't refuse, and look at that land now - a complete wasteland. Airports must become pro active in objecting to surrounding developments for housing and any other anti aircraft activity that proliferates around their favourite airport. We need to educate the community around our airports to help them understand who they really should be angry at - the greedy developers and real estate agents - we need to fight these people at all levels of government - don't stand back and be complacent, whinge, fight and make lots of noise if you want these airports to survive!
Hangar. My brothers, sister, 20 cousins and myself roamed around what was then known as "the paddock" for many hours every day. One of our favourite playgrounds was a derelict aircraft junkyard just across the road from our home. It was surrounded by a 6 foot high cyclone wire fence and guarded by 2 huge alsation dogs. We often used to swipe meat from the fridge to chuck over the fence for the dogs to distract them whilst we climbed the fence and barricaded ourselves inside whatever aircraft could be gotten into to play "pilots and hostesses!" The game would always be up when it came round to dinnertime at 6 o'clock and we'd be yelling our heads off for very irate parents to phone the owners of the junkyard to come and call off their dogs so we could go home. The airport became a very integral part of our lives and we watched its development with much interest and fascination. Our dad explained the workings of the jet engines to us and why it made so much noise. It didn't take long to get used to the noise and we would lay awake at night discussing what could possibly be so wrong with the engine that they had to test it all night long. We figured that they just had to get it right to go back on the plane for the morning. When I see the complexity and size of the current engine testing facility, I understand what progress has been made by aviation companies to attempt to exist with communities around them. The council of the day encouraged homeowners to move from a previously residential zoned area and reclassified it to light industrial. I hated the move across town to the north eastern suburbs. Unfortunately, greedy developers are continuously trying to make life difficult for the aviation industry - witness the closure of Casey Airfield at Berwick - land values soared so high the owners were made an offer they couldn't refuse, and look at that land now - a complete wasteland. Airports must become pro active in objecting to surrounding developments for housing and any other anti aircraft activity that proliferates around their favourite airport. We need to educate the community around our airports to help them understand who they really should be angry at - the greedy developers and real estate agents - we need to fight these people at all levels of government - don't stand back and be complacent, whinge, fight and make lots of noise if you want these airports to survive!
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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I too was brought up near an airfield. In fact I lived just over the hill from Bankstown wher the planes would turn final onto rwy29. I used to love how low came over our house and especially how slow they appeared to be moving in the howling westerlies.
I watched over the years as the residential and light industrial development crept closer and closer to the airfield to the point that any open space has now reached saturation. I don't have knowledge of factual figures available but being mad keen on aeroplanes all my life and living so close to Bankstown I recall vividly a number of accidents / incidents occurring throught the late 60s and into the 70s. I wonder if statistically, there has been a significant increase over the years? But as Hone22 rightly points out, people bought cheap and now have the gall to complain. I would hate for the tragedy of MB will be used by those with personal agendas as a lever to gain support out of their local politicians. But it's a sure bet that it will occur.
As for developers, I was told at a meeting with a then FAC executive of one developer who took out an injunction against his organisation to stop them erecting signs warning of aircraft noise on a proposed development site. They were also very cunning as to when they arranged to meet prospective purchasers on site, such as lunch times or late in the afternoon when movts at the time were known to be at a minimum.
Tealady's advice is spot on
Because one thing is for sure, the various action groups opposed to airports around Australia are certainly doing just that in support of their cause.
I watched over the years as the residential and light industrial development crept closer and closer to the airfield to the point that any open space has now reached saturation. I don't have knowledge of factual figures available but being mad keen on aeroplanes all my life and living so close to Bankstown I recall vividly a number of accidents / incidents occurring throught the late 60s and into the 70s. I wonder if statistically, there has been a significant increase over the years? But as Hone22 rightly points out, people bought cheap and now have the gall to complain. I would hate for the tragedy of MB will be used by those with personal agendas as a lever to gain support out of their local politicians. But it's a sure bet that it will occur.
As for developers, I was told at a meeting with a then FAC executive of one developer who took out an injunction against his organisation to stop them erecting signs warning of aircraft noise on a proposed development site. They were also very cunning as to when they arranged to meet prospective purchasers on site, such as lunch times or late in the afternoon when movts at the time were known to be at a minimum.
Tealady's advice is spot on
whinge, fight and make lots of noise if you want these airports to survive!
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This is hardly news folks! Do you not recall sometime last year that in London, residents who live near Heathrow were whining about the same thing and they took their complaints to the International Court (not sure of the correct name) and they WON! Therefore Heathrow has (or will have) a complete blanket ban on night flying of all types (I think). If someone can recall all the facts I would be interested to read the story again.
LH
LH
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BEARS - W@nker
This stuff almost boils my blood - time to stop doing circuits at 1000', request a few 'low level' ones and let them know what real noise would be like.
Anyone got an Aerocommander out there that they want to do circuits in for about 3 hours at 500AGL. That should do it
Twin
This stuff almost boils my blood - time to stop doing circuits at 1000', request a few 'low level' ones and let them know what real noise would be like.
Anyone got an Aerocommander out there that they want to do circuits in for about 3 hours at 500AGL. That should do it
Twin
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There is a neat way to fix these whingers, if only it could be enacted. What needs to be done is, the moment they complain, advise them that it will be noted on the title to their property that the property is aircraft noise affected, so future buyers will be apprised of this fact when they do their title search. Result: suddenly, no more complaints!
Bottums Up
I can recall seeing photographs of Essendon, Mascot and Tullamarine when they first became aerodromes. Not a home in sight!
Groing up in Melbourne, I recall people asking why the fark they were building an aerodrome half way to Sydney, now as others have noted above, they're all surrounded by homes, and the building continues as the land is cheap, because it's near an aerodrome.
I also recall taking a land developer on a flight around Bundy, late 80's so he could make a sales video for the retirement village he was going to build under base/final for RWY14. His requirements: position the aircraft so that the aerodrome wasn't visible in the footage.
He then asked me why 'they' couldn't realign the main runway to avoid pesky aeroplanes flying over his yet to be built village!
No sympathy for any of them.
Groing up in Melbourne, I recall people asking why the fark they were building an aerodrome half way to Sydney, now as others have noted above, they're all surrounded by homes, and the building continues as the land is cheap, because it's near an aerodrome.
I also recall taking a land developer on a flight around Bundy, late 80's so he could make a sales video for the retirement village he was going to build under base/final for RWY14. His requirements: position the aircraft so that the aerodrome wasn't visible in the footage.
He then asked me why 'they' couldn't realign the main runway to avoid pesky aeroplanes flying over his yet to be built village!
No sympathy for any of them.
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Pass-A-Frozo
Try Concept Aviation Bankstown shop, that is where I get my "I love aircraft noise" stickers from.
I would say most pilot shops at GAAP airport's would stock them in your area. I have had a few locals (non-pilots) in Mascot want them for there car's too.
Try Concept Aviation Bankstown shop, that is where I get my "I love aircraft noise" stickers from.
I would say most pilot shops at GAAP airport's would stock them in your area. I have had a few locals (non-pilots) in Mascot want them for there car's too.
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Just by way of an alternate view, airports are/were built on what is now prime land - flat, stable, not prone to flooding - all the qualities sought out for a variety of other reasons too. Granted, people moved into the area knowing an airport was there, but there weren't many alternate choices, particularly in Sydney. The city has to expand somewhere. Saying "The airport was here first." doesn't work. The decision generally comes down to one of economics, with just a little politics, although many might think otherwise.
If you want to keep an airport, justify it. Many posters here are doing just what they are accusing the general public of doing - whining.
If you want to keep an airport, justify it. Many posters here are doing just what they are accusing the general public of doing - whining.
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Concept Aviation Supplies, address and number is;
Airport Ave Bankstown 2200
Tel: (02) 9791 0222
Also try AOPA too on +61 (0)2 9791 9099
Airport Ave Bankstown 2200
Tel: (02) 9791 0222
Also try AOPA too on +61 (0)2 9791 9099