Closure of YMPC, YMEN and YMMB
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Lodown- what rubbish!
I was being shown a display home in a new suburb under the approach for 27 at MEL. I told the agent it was lovely, shame about being under the extended centre-line.
Goes white, look of horror.
"No it's not".
After heated discussion involving calling said agent a liar, we agreed to disagree, as the agent pointed out that the extended centre-line was actually 250m north of where we were standing. I wonder how many prospective purchasers had that disclosed to them?
I was being shown a display home in a new suburb under the approach for 27 at MEL. I told the agent it was lovely, shame about being under the extended centre-line.
Goes white, look of horror.
"No it's not".
After heated discussion involving calling said agent a liar, we agreed to disagree, as the agent pointed out that the extended centre-line was actually 250m north of where we were standing. I wonder how many prospective purchasers had that disclosed to them?
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Harvey Gee. It is the law now. Everytime you buy a house when the search is done with the local council it is stated in the search if it is in a designated aircraft noise area. Then you decide if you want it or not. Most agents will tell you now. When I was looking for a house in Cairns I was told by the agent. Mind you, we were at Machans Beach directly under a 737 which was close to touching down at the time.
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From the Sydney Morning Herald.
1st August 2002
Re: Marrickville council (in Sydney) rejecting building approvals under the flight path
The full unreferenced dribble: dailytelegraph.new.com.au
Maybe there should be a law requiring people under a flight path to wear seatbelts whilst watching TV
1st August 2002
Re: Marrickville council (in Sydney) rejecting building approvals under the flight path
"There was a prediction made a little while ago by the American equivalent of our air safety authority that in 20 years' time there will be one major aircraft crash a week somewhere in the world," he said.
"And there is no reason why we should think [Sydney] airport will be immune from that sort of risk."
Mr Fitzgerald said a previous study had shown people living under the northern flight path had a greater chance of being killed in an aircraft crash than being hit and killed by a car.
"And there is no reason why we should think [Sydney] airport will be immune from that sort of risk."
Mr Fitzgerald said a previous study had shown people living under the northern flight path had a greater chance of being killed in an aircraft crash than being hit and killed by a car.
Maybe there should be a law requiring people under a flight path to wear seatbelts whilst watching TV
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Great response guys! Keep them coming!
Lodown, Sydney is a whole new kettle of fish! I don't particularly want to open that one. 
But so far as to say that majority of the land around Melbourne is relatively flat (compared to Brisbane or Sydney). I am not talking about the Great Dividing Range, I am stating around Melbourne and its surrounding suburbs.
I am sure many people on this post will have departed from YMEN or YMMB at some point in their career.
Next time, look how close the houses REALLY are!
These airports are literally being squeezed to death!
Something needs to be done............
but there weren't many alternate choices, particularly in Sydney.
But so far as to say that majority of the land around Melbourne is relatively flat (compared to Brisbane or Sydney). I am not talking about the Great Dividing Range, I am stating around Melbourne and its surrounding suburbs.
I am sure many people on this post will have departed from YMEN or YMMB at some point in their career.
Next time, look how close the houses REALLY are!
These airports are literally being squeezed to death!
Something needs to be done............
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....and when you're discussing the issue of noise with someone who moved nearby long after the airport was built or with noise protesters in general, remind them that the unemployment and idle businesses which would surely follow airport closures generate NO noise. It gets awful quiet when the economic activity dies.
Tourism is one of our biggest industry sectors (the biggest?) yet you'd think we were able to noiselessly beam the pax in and out withut needing pilots (who have to be trained) or aircraft.
And anyway, at least as far as bigger airports go, looking at the miniscule noise being generated bythe new generation very high bypass engined jets (330/340 and 777) I doubt you could even hear them on approach if you weren't one of those who stay awake at the mere thought of an aircraft.
Final discussion stopper...for all those who moved in after an airport was built, lets propose the levy of a tax equivalent to the total capital gain received by the homeowner if the airport were to be closed and hence his/her property made more valuable. This would fund the building of a new airport. They got the houses cheaply, so there should be no windfall if their complaining shuts the reason for the cheap houses.
Foonote: how about issuing noise protesters with a stainless steel bracelet engraved as follows: "If I am seriosuly ill and need to be rapidly taken to a big city hospital, I wish to use surface transport only and would rather die quietly in the boondocks or on a clogged freeway than use a helipad or inner city airport"
Tourism is one of our biggest industry sectors (the biggest?) yet you'd think we were able to noiselessly beam the pax in and out withut needing pilots (who have to be trained) or aircraft.
And anyway, at least as far as bigger airports go, looking at the miniscule noise being generated bythe new generation very high bypass engined jets (330/340 and 777) I doubt you could even hear them on approach if you weren't one of those who stay awake at the mere thought of an aircraft.
Final discussion stopper...for all those who moved in after an airport was built, lets propose the levy of a tax equivalent to the total capital gain received by the homeowner if the airport were to be closed and hence his/her property made more valuable. This would fund the building of a new airport. They got the houses cheaply, so there should be no windfall if their complaining shuts the reason for the cheap houses.
Foonote: how about issuing noise protesters with a stainless steel bracelet engraved as follows: "If I am seriosuly ill and need to be rapidly taken to a big city hospital, I wish to use surface transport only and would rather die quietly in the boondocks or on a clogged freeway than use a helipad or inner city airport"
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The problem is endemic in many areas of OZ.
Last December departing Archerfield in a C150, hot day, tanks full (extended range), only me up, I got a close look in the back yards of quite a few houses to the west on departure. That was after I had managed to miss the trees.
The topic is starting to be discussed among pilots where I currently fly. The land under the circuit for the two runways at Cambridge are being sub-divided at a great rate and I suspect it will not be long before the complaints begin.
First will be the calls to ban flying for safety reasons. Then will follow the noise complaints.
As some of the previous posters have noted, the fact that the airport was there first is immaterial. It's enough to make you...
Last December departing Archerfield in a C150, hot day, tanks full (extended range), only me up, I got a close look in the back yards of quite a few houses to the west on departure. That was after I had managed to miss the trees.
The topic is starting to be discussed among pilots where I currently fly. The land under the circuit for the two runways at Cambridge are being sub-divided at a great rate and I suspect it will not be long before the complaints begin.
First will be the calls to ban flying for safety reasons. Then will follow the noise complaints.
As some of the previous posters have noted, the fact that the airport was there first is immaterial. It's enough to make you...
There appears to be an assumption that community protest = government action.
While I have noticed a worrying trend in the UK with local councils selling off airports as redevelopment sites, the same does not appear to happening in Oz.
I recall community demands for Essendon to be closed back in the 70's when I still lived in Melbourne. She still seemed operational when I last visited in 2001.
Ditto, the private field where I learned to fly (and avoid flying over the local farmer who claimed our C150's were contaminating his washing with oil!!) (There's now 2 more active strips within a 10 mile radius while the local population has gone from 3500 to 50,000)
Ditto Moorabbin
Ditto KSA.
Ditto Darwin (even conducted an 'inconclusive' inquiry in 1993 following public complaints about RAAF fast jets making loud noises on take-off .)
While there is an economic imperative to keep an airfield open, it will remain open. You might see some tinkering with operational requirements, such as flightpaths and curfews .....but it will remain open despite community objections.
Of course, if the economics change.................................
While I have noticed a worrying trend in the UK with local councils selling off airports as redevelopment sites, the same does not appear to happening in Oz.
I recall community demands for Essendon to be closed back in the 70's when I still lived in Melbourne. She still seemed operational when I last visited in 2001.
Ditto, the private field where I learned to fly (and avoid flying over the local farmer who claimed our C150's were contaminating his washing with oil!!) (There's now 2 more active strips within a 10 mile radius while the local population has gone from 3500 to 50,000)
Ditto Moorabbin
Ditto KSA.
Ditto Darwin (even conducted an 'inconclusive' inquiry in 1993 following public complaints about RAAF fast jets making loud noises on take-off .)
While there is an economic imperative to keep an airfield open, it will remain open. You might see some tinkering with operational requirements, such as flightpaths and curfews .....but it will remain open despite community objections.
Of course, if the economics change.................................
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YMPC is perfect for training!
Long and fantastic runways!
I even heard last year that they were going to reopen the tower due to the amount of traffic coming from YMEN and YMMB.
Don't know how it was going to be funded but seemed like a great idea since only 5 planes are allowed in the circuit at present.
But with this recent "push" to close the airport, this now seems very unlikely!
Shame really…..
Long and fantastic runways!
I even heard last year that they were going to reopen the tower due to the amount of traffic coming from YMEN and YMMB.
Don't know how it was going to be funded but seemed like a great idea since only 5 planes are allowed in the circuit at present.
But with this recent "push" to close the airport, this now seems very unlikely!
Shame really…..
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Go back to the link to the BEARS website on page 1 of this thread, scroll the left side down to the bottom and there is a feedback option.
Give these money grubbing clowns a serve.I just did.
All they are looking for is an increase in their land values.
Total w@nkers.
Best all
EWL
Give these money grubbing clowns a serve.I just did.
All they are looking for is an increase in their land values.
Total w@nkers.
Best all
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 3rd Aug 2002 at 07:29.
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Guys and Gals. Firstly, didn't we all grow up smelling the lovely aroma of burnt kero from four engined nuclear bombers???
(and no I'm not a pom or yank)
Tealady and Andrew Wetzell made some good observations. The reason these puki can move close to airports and then whinge them out of existence is based on three things.
1. In my opinion most politicians are stupid self serving individuals interested ONLY in re-election (Like Andrew de-Murray Democrat WA).
2. They will therefore support anything with rabid media coverage.
3. The media will drive past a 30 ton truck parked in someones loungeroom (on top of 6 babies) to get a pic of a 750 kg C150 sucessfully forced landed in a paddock.
And the whigers listen to John Laws; and they vote.
So. Write to the pollies. Scream blue murder and support people not in your area by threatening not to support LibLab in the Senate. You gotta outnumber the whingers.
Write to AOPA. See if you can get those guys of their padded 747 seats and working. There are some good guys in there!
Lobby Munro and Smith. For all their self importance they have done a lot of good stuff for GA, more importantly they have the resources to help. I figure their hearts must be in the right place to be doing what they're doing for free.
If you here this crappola on a talkback show, get on and attack.
(and no I'm not a pom or yank)
Tealady and Andrew Wetzell made some good observations. The reason these puki can move close to airports and then whinge them out of existence is based on three things.
1. In my opinion most politicians are stupid self serving individuals interested ONLY in re-election (Like Andrew de-Murray Democrat WA).
2. They will therefore support anything with rabid media coverage.
3. The media will drive past a 30 ton truck parked in someones loungeroom (on top of 6 babies) to get a pic of a 750 kg C150 sucessfully forced landed in a paddock.
And the whigers listen to John Laws; and they vote.
So. Write to the pollies. Scream blue murder and support people not in your area by threatening not to support LibLab in the Senate. You gotta outnumber the whingers.
Write to AOPA. See if you can get those guys of their padded 747 seats and working. There are some good guys in there!
Lobby Munro and Smith. For all their self importance they have done a lot of good stuff for GA, more importantly they have the resources to help. I figure their hearts must be in the right place to be doing what they're doing for free.
If you here this crappola on a talkback show, get on and attack.
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http://members.optushome.com.au/bearave/feedback_m.htm
Press on the above link and give them some positive feedback on why airports should stay.
http://members.optushome.com.au/bearave/
I had one of their people the other day email back and tell me they dump jet fuel on my place when coming into land over my house. yeah right!!!
Press on the above link and give them some positive feedback on why airports should stay.
http://members.optushome.com.au/bearave/
I had one of their people the other day email back and tell me they dump jet fuel on my place when coming into land over my house. yeah right!!!
All,
A good example of the cynicism of developers:
(1) Around Camden in recent months, a very expensive mail drop was carried out, knowing something about these things, I would estimate the direct costs at some $20,000.
The pamphlet made the most amazingly untrue claims about the dangers posed by the aircraft operations, starting with virtually guaranteed cancer. You get the general drift.
(2) Major advertising campaign starts for a new development, with maps of the idyllic quiet rural countryside, and surprise, surprise, the airfield appear nowhere on the map.
If everybody with an interest in preserving the local airfields fails to get together and out lobby the opposition, you will lose the airfields.
Local groups MUST do the hard yards, the likes of AOPA can help with pre prepared outline plans of how to do it, but only a dedicated local group will win the fight.
One of the political advantages of the local group is that they are local, the developers/exploiters are almost always not, with no long term interest in the community.
It will cost you time and effort, and it will have to be sustained, if you are not all prepared to pull together, you will fail.
How to save your local airfield is a political problem, forget "We wuz 'ere first", that doesn't rate.
You can win, look at what has just been achieved at Evans Head.
It took years of hard work, but the airport user group beat the developers, despite the developers having the local council on side.
Tootle pip !!
A good example of the cynicism of developers:
(1) Around Camden in recent months, a very expensive mail drop was carried out, knowing something about these things, I would estimate the direct costs at some $20,000.
The pamphlet made the most amazingly untrue claims about the dangers posed by the aircraft operations, starting with virtually guaranteed cancer. You get the general drift.
(2) Major advertising campaign starts for a new development, with maps of the idyllic quiet rural countryside, and surprise, surprise, the airfield appear nowhere on the map.
If everybody with an interest in preserving the local airfields fails to get together and out lobby the opposition, you will lose the airfields.
Local groups MUST do the hard yards, the likes of AOPA can help with pre prepared outline plans of how to do it, but only a dedicated local group will win the fight.
One of the political advantages of the local group is that they are local, the developers/exploiters are almost always not, with no long term interest in the community.
It will cost you time and effort, and it will have to be sustained, if you are not all prepared to pull together, you will fail.
How to save your local airfield is a political problem, forget "We wuz 'ere first", that doesn't rate.
You can win, look at what has just been achieved at Evans Head.
It took years of hard work, but the airport user group beat the developers, despite the developers having the local council on side.
Tootle pip !!
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Interesting concept, does GA want Bankstown to be a spur of Sydney.
I must admit, I do find Sydneysiders to be the worst whingers. They want (and get) all the benefits of being the #1 city, but want everyone else to wear thier problems, ie airports, water catchment, waste disposal and sewage.
Stick an airport at Badgereys Ck thats my view
If there are mail drops going on, counter them. You guys in Sydney don't have $20K, but do you have the time????
I will be a cynic and bet no one will volunteer, but why don't you all e-mail Andrew Wetzell, then tell AOPA to pay for the printing and get out there and letterbox.
And WRITE TO THE POLLIES.
I must admit, I do find Sydneysiders to be the worst whingers. They want (and get) all the benefits of being the #1 city, but want everyone else to wear thier problems, ie airports, water catchment, waste disposal and sewage.
Stick an airport at Badgereys Ck thats my view
If there are mail drops going on, counter them. You guys in Sydney don't have $20K, but do you have the time????
I will be a cynic and bet no one will volunteer, but why don't you all e-mail Andrew Wetzell, then tell AOPA to pay for the printing and get out there and letterbox.
And WRITE TO THE POLLIES.
Last edited by ulm; 4th Aug 2002 at 03:21.
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Airport whingers
Ok people this is what i heard the other week at YSBK taxiing back after some night circuits....
ATC: "Aircraft over by the far run-up bays, what are your intentions?, you seem to have been there for a while!"
Aircraft: Ummmm we're just doing run-ups, we don't feel that we have been here an unordinarily long time!
ATC: "Oook, just checking, cos the neighbours were complaining about excessive noise"
At this point my instructor and myself both looked at each other and said, "ITS a f*$king airport for crying out loud, what do you expect???
I don't think i have ever laughed so hard on my drive home from the airport than on this night!!!
cheers
ATC: "Aircraft over by the far run-up bays, what are your intentions?, you seem to have been there for a while!"
Aircraft: Ummmm we're just doing run-ups, we don't feel that we have been here an unordinarily long time!
ATC: "Oook, just checking, cos the neighbours were complaining about excessive noise"
At this point my instructor and myself both looked at each other and said, "ITS a f*$king airport for crying out loud, what do you expect???
I don't think i have ever laughed so hard on my drive home from the airport than on this night!!!
cheers
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Eastwest Loco and awetzel
I gave some very positive feedback to those fruitcakes!
Asked them to consider even throwing in a seventh runway but I don't like my chances!!!
I gave some very positive feedback to those fruitcakes!
Asked them to consider even throwing in a seventh runway but I don't like my chances!!!
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I had a small problem with my local council allowing a developer to halve the size of the blocks he's trying to sell around my place.
Funny thing, in two years not one has sold. Wonder if my "Danger Keep Out. Helicopter Operating Area" signs all around my fence line has put people off ??
Concerted campaigns in support of aviation establishments are just as effective as those against, but you have to be as cunning, dishonest and vociferous as the antis who try to close the airports.
Funny thing, in two years not one has sold. Wonder if my "Danger Keep Out. Helicopter Operating Area" signs all around my fence line has put people off ??
Concerted campaigns in support of aviation establishments are just as effective as those against, but you have to be as cunning, dishonest and vociferous as the antis who try to close the airports.
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So what can we do guys?
I don’t have much faith in the politicians as it only suits them in an election year!
Unite as one and start our own "save and expand the airports" campaign and send these fruitcakes over the edge?
VOTE 1 Australian aerodromes!!!
I don’t have much faith in the politicians as it only suits them in an election year!
Unite as one and start our own "save and expand the airports" campaign and send these fruitcakes over the edge?
VOTE 1 Australian aerodromes!!!
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Another good idea
I have read all the posts with much pleasure. I love the noise myself. Anyway, my idea is that if anyone complains about aircraft noise on a propertly they bought knowing full well it would be affected, they go onto a list with the airlines and they are never allowed to travel by air ever again. End of story. That sould shut them up!
NFR.
NFR.