Instructing & GA or RAAF, hmmmm
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Join Date: May 2001
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Instructing & GA or RAAF, hmmmm
Weeeeellllllll. Its D-Day or its equivalent for me in the big wide world, and like all other low time pilots, (of which there are hundreds each year, including their posts here) all wanting to know where to go.
Well from what I understand its pretty much Johnny on the spot when it comes to jobs, and i've got a fair amount of competion.
My question is, I am considering getting my instructors rating with a highly regared OAM recipiant doing the teaching and this will finish up in late march (end of wet season up north.) By the time this is all up, I will have approx;
- 255hrs TT
- 155hrs PIC
- Grade 3 Instructor Rating
I already have my;
- Bare MECIR
- All my ATPL's
- plus a BSc (Aviation) Uni degree, which may or may not count against me.
From what i've learnt over the last three years and the amount of wayward info i've had directed to me, I would appreciated it greatly if I could get some informed responses from THOSE IN THE KNOW about whether the future looks bright for me (or at least a shade of a nice colour) in G.A. will I be able to find work within a couple of months with my (lack) of experiance. I am preparred to go anywhere, and in fact im preparring to migrate North/West with the rest of the flock in the hope of a job.
I know I have a lot to learn, and I am more than willing to abrorb anyones knowledge of the industry. Do I slog it out the hard way or go the easy route into the RAAF.
Thanx Ya'll
P.S. Those of you who no me personally, congrats u now know my nickname
P.P.S Anyone know of the search engine to look for aviation web sites around australia?
P.P.P.S. Woomera what do u think would be a good idea?
Well from what I understand its pretty much Johnny on the spot when it comes to jobs, and i've got a fair amount of competion.
My question is, I am considering getting my instructors rating with a highly regared OAM recipiant doing the teaching and this will finish up in late march (end of wet season up north.) By the time this is all up, I will have approx;
- 255hrs TT
- 155hrs PIC
- Grade 3 Instructor Rating
I already have my;
- Bare MECIR
- All my ATPL's
- plus a BSc (Aviation) Uni degree, which may or may not count against me.
From what i've learnt over the last three years and the amount of wayward info i've had directed to me, I would appreciated it greatly if I could get some informed responses from THOSE IN THE KNOW about whether the future looks bright for me (or at least a shade of a nice colour) in G.A. will I be able to find work within a couple of months with my (lack) of experiance. I am preparred to go anywhere, and in fact im preparring to migrate North/West with the rest of the flock in the hope of a job.
I know I have a lot to learn, and I am more than willing to abrorb anyones knowledge of the industry. Do I slog it out the hard way or go the easy route into the RAAF.
Thanx Ya'll
P.S. Those of you who no me personally, congrats u now know my nickname
P.P.S Anyone know of the search engine to look for aviation web sites around australia?
P.P.P.S. Woomera what do u think would be a good idea?
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Cowboy, Go the RAAF. I was exactly like you, had 250 hours and a CPL with no jobs. Did 11 years on fighters and had a ball.
Hudson, bit harsh everyone knows plots can't spel.
Bulldog, flying fast stuff would have been too much fun for you huh?
Cheers to all.
Hudson, bit harsh everyone knows plots can't spel.
Bulldog, flying fast stuff would have been too much fun for you huh?
Cheers to all.
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"Go the easy route into the RAAF"???!?!
They take one in every hundred applicants and of those the failure rate on course is 50%.
When you graduate as a bograt, you still have years to go to gain operational competence.
Hardly the easy route.
On the plus side, for a young single person the lifestyle and opportunities are hard to beat.
But don't make the mistake of thinking it is in any way easy.
They take one in every hundred applicants and of those the failure rate on course is 50%.
When you graduate as a bograt, you still have years to go to gain operational competence.
Hardly the easy route.
On the plus side, for a young single person the lifestyle and opportunities are hard to beat.
But don't make the mistake of thinking it is in any way easy.
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RS
There is no "easy' way. Whatever way you choose involves hard work, persistence and a modicum of luck. Persistence is by far the most important and you will arrive at a goal which may not be the one you set your mind on.
The RAAF way, apart from the rigorous selection and training, also requires "return of service" which means a commitment of 10 years?? service. In other words you pay 10 years of your life, possibly your life, in return for the qualifications you gain.
The cadet route also has a different method of payment, usually upfront, with no absolute guarantee of a job at the end.
The GA route also involves payment in cash and lifestyle possibly for many years with the same risks as to reaching the goal you may have in mind. One advantage of this route is that you are free to move to another job/airline at any time IF there is one available.
All RAAF pilots do not end up in an airline, nor do ALL GA pilots no matter how competent. Many fine pilots have missed out simply because when they were free to apply or had gained the required qualifications there were no jobs available. That is where luck is a factor. Right now worldwide there is not a great demand for pilots and there are plenty in the pipeline waiting.
This kind of cycle is a feature of the aviation industry. Persistence is essential.
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: The Vicar ]
There is no "easy' way. Whatever way you choose involves hard work, persistence and a modicum of luck. Persistence is by far the most important and you will arrive at a goal which may not be the one you set your mind on.
The RAAF way, apart from the rigorous selection and training, also requires "return of service" which means a commitment of 10 years?? service. In other words you pay 10 years of your life, possibly your life, in return for the qualifications you gain.
The cadet route also has a different method of payment, usually upfront, with no absolute guarantee of a job at the end.
The GA route also involves payment in cash and lifestyle possibly for many years with the same risks as to reaching the goal you may have in mind. One advantage of this route is that you are free to move to another job/airline at any time IF there is one available.
All RAAF pilots do not end up in an airline, nor do ALL GA pilots no matter how competent. Many fine pilots have missed out simply because when they were free to apply or had gained the required qualifications there were no jobs available. That is where luck is a factor. Right now worldwide there is not a great demand for pilots and there are plenty in the pipeline waiting.
This kind of cycle is a feature of the aviation industry. Persistence is essential.
[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: The Vicar ]
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I would have to agree with the post sent in by The Cutest of Borg.
If you are fortunate to be selected for the RAAF and graduate you'll experience flying light years ahead of what you could in the civilian world regardless of what type you end up on.
If you do 10-12 years then resign in your early 30's you'll have 25+ years to fly straight and level while eating your first class meal on the flight deck of an airliner.
Good luck.
If you are fortunate to be selected for the RAAF and graduate you'll experience flying light years ahead of what you could in the civilian world regardless of what type you end up on.
If you do 10-12 years then resign in your early 30's you'll have 25+ years to fly straight and level while eating your first class meal on the flight deck of an airliner.
Good luck.
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Thank you all for your replies, hopefully there are more to come.
Hudson, and to all the other spelling Nazi's, I will be more prudent and check my spelling more thoroughly in future, thankyou.
I believe that the "easy route" was misunderstood and was portrayed by myself in the wrong manner. By the easy route I meant, job stability, for 10 or so years and not having to worry about where my next meal will come from. I am mostly aware of what military life involves, lots to give up and lots to put up with, be it others immature bad attitudes
or the extremely rigorous sorties etc that must be planned for.
But then again, G.A. has the same sort of problems, just a different setting. I know I'm just a Gromet and I've got plenty to learn, that’s just a part of life. I’m just at a point in my career were I’m weighing up my options and trying to decide how to proceed to make things just a LITTLE bit easier, not unreasonable?
JMJ, that is what I had in mind, be young and experience excitement… until I grow up. When I’m in my mid 30’s I will have more responsibilities. If possible, I’ll then try to get into an airline.
Thanks for the information supplied, I have more to consider.
Hudson, and to all the other spelling Nazi's, I will be more prudent and check my spelling more thoroughly in future, thankyou.
I believe that the "easy route" was misunderstood and was portrayed by myself in the wrong manner. By the easy route I meant, job stability, for 10 or so years and not having to worry about where my next meal will come from. I am mostly aware of what military life involves, lots to give up and lots to put up with, be it others immature bad attitudes
or the extremely rigorous sorties etc that must be planned for.But then again, G.A. has the same sort of problems, just a different setting. I know I'm just a Gromet and I've got plenty to learn, that’s just a part of life. I’m just at a point in my career were I’m weighing up my options and trying to decide how to proceed to make things just a LITTLE bit easier, not unreasonable?
JMJ, that is what I had in mind, be young and experience excitement… until I grow up. When I’m in my mid 30’s I will have more responsibilities. If possible, I’ll then try to get into an airline.
Thanks for the information supplied, I have more to consider.
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Guys,
What's the demand for pilots in the RAAF at the moment, and in the near future? (Considering prospects are pretty shadowy for low-time civillian pilots at the moment, comparitively?)
How about those rumours that I'm sure everybody has heard that after a couple of years of flying in the RAAF you get a desk thrown at you in the golden years of your return of service. True or crap?? How much flying do RAAF pilots average each year? I've heard from not-too-reliable sources that F18/F111 pilots fly about 200, C130 pilots about 400, and Falcon pilots a bit more. Is this about accurate? Although I'm sure the flying would be bloody awesome - that's not much time actually flying.
The pros and cons of the GA/instructing biz are well known and often discussed (bitched about) on prune, but how about the pros and cons of being a RAAF pilot? Surely it's not all fast planes, fast women and constant parties , some things must suck about it........
Thanks,
Fred.
What's the demand for pilots in the RAAF at the moment, and in the near future? (Considering prospects are pretty shadowy for low-time civillian pilots at the moment, comparitively?)
How about those rumours that I'm sure everybody has heard that after a couple of years of flying in the RAAF you get a desk thrown at you in the golden years of your return of service. True or crap?? How much flying do RAAF pilots average each year? I've heard from not-too-reliable sources that F18/F111 pilots fly about 200, C130 pilots about 400, and Falcon pilots a bit more. Is this about accurate? Although I'm sure the flying would be bloody awesome - that's not much time actually flying.
The pros and cons of the GA/instructing biz are well known and often discussed (bitched about) on prune, but how about the pros and cons of being a RAAF pilot? Surely it's not all fast planes, fast women and constant parties , some things must suck about it........
Thanks,
Fred.
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Freddy,
depending on which aircraft you get selected to fly after passing pilots course, you can look forward to years of uninterupted flying. I have done 11 years of flying so far without a desk job - but can honestly say, I am due for a break, and am looking forward to a sojourn before getting stuck back into flying. Hornet guys do only get around the 200 - 220 hours per year mark, but that equates roughly to 4 or 5 flights per week, less holidays. One mission in a Hornet can take up a whole day (or more) from preparation to briefing, flying and debriefing. Some are far more basic and require minimal prep, a few minutes brief, and minimal debrief. Its the harder, more complex, and longer to prepare for missions that make this job the fantastic job that it is. Recently on an exercise up North we flew 20 Hornets (8 sweep plus 12 self-escort strike) plus 5 F111s striking a target versus 12 Hornets simulating FSB MiGs and SUs. These missions begin the day before -take a few hours to prepare and brief, and the they were flown V early in the morning, prior to debriefing. Unbelievably rewarding and HUGE fun having so many jets in a fight.
Sure in civy and theres plenty of S&L hours to burn and log, but having done both types, nothing compares to the excitement of flying fighters.
depending on which aircraft you get selected to fly after passing pilots course, you can look forward to years of uninterupted flying. I have done 11 years of flying so far without a desk job - but can honestly say, I am due for a break, and am looking forward to a sojourn before getting stuck back into flying. Hornet guys do only get around the 200 - 220 hours per year mark, but that equates roughly to 4 or 5 flights per week, less holidays. One mission in a Hornet can take up a whole day (or more) from preparation to briefing, flying and debriefing. Some are far more basic and require minimal prep, a few minutes brief, and minimal debrief. Its the harder, more complex, and longer to prepare for missions that make this job the fantastic job that it is. Recently on an exercise up North we flew 20 Hornets (8 sweep plus 12 self-escort strike) plus 5 F111s striking a target versus 12 Hornets simulating FSB MiGs and SUs. These missions begin the day before -take a few hours to prepare and brief, and the they were flown V early in the morning, prior to debriefing. Unbelievably rewarding and HUGE fun having so many jets in a fight.
Sure in civy and theres plenty of S&L hours to burn and log, but having done both types, nothing compares to the excitement of flying fighters.
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For a young single guy, the RAAF lifestyle is fantastic. Most guys tend to want to get out at the ten + year mark because, by then, they normally have a family. The novelty of moving every three years wears off after a while I can tell you - I did 9 interstate removals in 14 years!!
Ah, nothing like a bit of knuck-baiting, I always say!
phs, you're painting a bit of a rosy picture; most people seem to get sucked into the ground job vortex before too long. In your line of work, you are a valuable commodity and therefore a little bit bullet proof, but the ground jobs are certainly an occupational hazard that must be accepted.
I never had one in 20 years, but I had to duck and weave very smartly to do it, and that would certainly not be the norm.
Anyway, back to the point - military flying is excellent work, in the main. The rewards are great, but you have to be prepared to put in.
Also there are many frustrating factors that may eventually grind you down, but to my mind the pros far outweigh the cons.
phs, you're painting a bit of a rosy picture; most people seem to get sucked into the ground job vortex before too long. In your line of work, you are a valuable commodity and therefore a little bit bullet proof, but the ground jobs are certainly an occupational hazard that must be accepted.
I never had one in 20 years, but I had to duck and weave very smartly to do it, and that would certainly not be the norm.
Anyway, back to the point - military flying is excellent work, in the main. The rewards are great, but you have to be prepared to put in.
Also there are many frustrating factors that may eventually grind you down, but to my mind the pros far outweigh the cons.
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phs,
stay cool ace-you`re being baited.Good to see training hard still,gotta improve from that fiasco years back with Malaysian Migs.Wouldn`t have happend in the glory days though!
stay cool ace-you`re being baited.Good to see training hard still,gotta improve from that fiasco years back with Malaysian Migs.Wouldn`t have happend in the glory days though!
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PHS,
That last remark just typified the attitude.......
AOTW has more experience in many things that you would only dream of.
The fast jet world is not desired by all, and after being involved in selection processes for airctaft types it is not the best that always go to fast jets, many other ADF roles are as demanding if not more. Each to their own. I have seen the dux of a course go other than fast jet, and I have seen last on course go there as well.
As mentioned above it is certainly not the easy option, but the rewards a enormous. The actual hours in the logbook at the end of the year are irrelavant, it is the type of flying and the professionalism that count. I know in civvy street that the first thing that is mentioned is hours, but having been on both sides of the fence it's the quality not the quantity !
Incidentally if you jon thru ADFA and complete pilots course you will be doing 15 plus years in the RAAF before you can get out, (3 at ADFA 12-18 mnths on course or waiting and 11 years after grad)
As for the desk job, it varies greatly, some guys score a lot of desk jobs, others have flown for 15 years straight. It comes down to preference for job types, streaming, and luck. I know Is Don will remark about crappy ground jobs, but I can tell you that there are many varied careers out there in the RAAF and you can choose your own destiny to a point by deciding a path early and working hard,
Good Luck
That last remark just typified the attitude.......
AOTW has more experience in many things that you would only dream of.
The fast jet world is not desired by all, and after being involved in selection processes for airctaft types it is not the best that always go to fast jets, many other ADF roles are as demanding if not more. Each to their own. I have seen the dux of a course go other than fast jet, and I have seen last on course go there as well.
As mentioned above it is certainly not the easy option, but the rewards a enormous. The actual hours in the logbook at the end of the year are irrelavant, it is the type of flying and the professionalism that count. I know in civvy street that the first thing that is mentioned is hours, but having been on both sides of the fence it's the quality not the quantity !
Incidentally if you jon thru ADFA and complete pilots course you will be doing 15 plus years in the RAAF before you can get out, (3 at ADFA 12-18 mnths on course or waiting and 11 years after grad)
As for the desk job, it varies greatly, some guys score a lot of desk jobs, others have flown for 15 years straight. It comes down to preference for job types, streaming, and luck. I know Is Don will remark about crappy ground jobs, but I can tell you that there are many varied careers out there in the RAAF and you can choose your own destiny to a point by deciding a path early and working hard,
Good Luck
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So AOTW should've tried harder, is that correct phs? That comment shows you to be the clown you are bud - enjoy your 'sojourn' at the local circus. I'd take his 20 years of varied mil flying over your 11 of pointy flying any day of the week, and twice on Sunday's. 
Cheers guys,I didn't want to start a slanging match. We all know that knucks work hard to get where they are, best of luck to them. It's good friendly rivalry that is one of the good things about the military flying bizzo.
Hang on, that sounds far too conciliatory and tree-hugging! What am I doing?!!
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Arm out the window ]
Hang on, that sounds far too conciliatory and tree-hugging! What am I doing?!!
[ 10 December 2001: Message edited by: Arm out the window ]