general Q's about life in the RAAF
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general Q's about life in the RAAF
Hey. .I would like an idea of the pros and cons of being a FJ pilot in the RAAF (both F/A 18 and F-111). (I heard only about 5 hrs a week, but pig crews spend some time in Hawaii?). Is life more stable as an instructor?
Also, would like info on being a civvy instructor for BAe at Tamworth training potential military pilots, (have looked on internet with not much joy). Most importantly, would I have to meet military medical standards (eyesight) if I was employed by BAe?
. .Just how short on pilots is the RAAF?
Also, would like info on being a civvy instructor for BAe at Tamworth training potential military pilots, (have looked on internet with not much joy). Most importantly, would I have to meet military medical standards (eyesight) if I was employed by BAe?
. .Just how short on pilots is the RAAF?
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Good luck, as an ex RAAF QFI based on what you have just said I think you are going to need it.
For starters, you don't necessarily get what you want, you get what you assessed as being suitable for. 9 out of 10 don't get what they want. As for being a knuckle head, I would not wish that on my worst enemy. No future in it. I can vouch for that as my "Miracle" time is absolutely useless.
Have a nice day
For starters, you don't necessarily get what you want, you get what you assessed as being suitable for. 9 out of 10 don't get what they want. As for being a knuckle head, I would not wish that on my worst enemy. No future in it. I can vouch for that as my "Miracle" time is absolutely useless.
Have a nice day
Rabbit. Don't knock your Mirage time even though the civvy airline recruiters do. There are hundreds of experienced airline pilots that would give their left test..cle to have flown the Mirage. I had the fortune to be given a back seat ride in a Mirage before I left the RAAF. It was one of the greatest thrills in my life (apart from first trip in a Mustang in the Fifties).. .Best of luck to you - the people that knocked your Mirage time are just jealous!
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Frank,
So you would like to visit Hawaii? Thoughts of feasting at a lu'au whilst wearing a lei and getting hammered on mai tai's has caught your imagination has it? Well good for you. As for getting there, let me suggest you purchase a ticket on the QF3. That way you can sit back, sip on a G&T, watch an in-flight movie or curl up with your favourite novel. I can assure you this means of travelling to HNL will cause you much less heartache than attempting to jump through the hoops of Flight Screening, OTS, BFTS, 2FTS, IFC and finally F111 conversion. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
As for instructing at BFTS as a BAe instructor, you will need a lot, lot more than a PPL (as your profile states). The civilian instructors at Tamworth are very experienced Grade 1 instructors, and many have previous military service. They hold civilian licences, so I think you will find they will hold civilian medicals. By the way, Tamworth looks nothing like Waikiki.
Aloha!
[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
So you would like to visit Hawaii? Thoughts of feasting at a lu'au whilst wearing a lei and getting hammered on mai tai's has caught your imagination has it? Well good for you. As for getting there, let me suggest you purchase a ticket on the QF3. That way you can sit back, sip on a G&T, watch an in-flight movie or curl up with your favourite novel. I can assure you this means of travelling to HNL will cause you much less heartache than attempting to jump through the hoops of Flight Screening, OTS, BFTS, 2FTS, IFC and finally F111 conversion. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
As for instructing at BFTS as a BAe instructor, you will need a lot, lot more than a PPL (as your profile states). The civilian instructors at Tamworth are very experienced Grade 1 instructors, and many have previous military service. They hold civilian licences, so I think you will find they will hold civilian medicals. By the way, Tamworth looks nothing like Waikiki.
Aloha!
[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
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Right.
Firstly, I have only ask these questions to find out whether the lifestyle and people in the RAAF are more organised and professional than the recuiting guys are. They don't seem to know anything! I have been told not to bother with the RAAF (from some ex-RAAF boys), as it is a waste of time, but this is hard to believe, or is it?
Rabbit, I'm aware that it is a lot of hard work, but if 9/10 don't make it, that means that 1/10 do. If I don't try then I will have no chance at all.
RPPT, well, here I was thinking that I could just walk in to the job and have a few 'business' trips at the expense of the ever loving taxpayer. So I take it the rumour I heard isn't true.
In order to work towards something, I'd like to know what I'm up against, and as I said above, recruiting have no idea. So I think now is a good time to start asking questions. If my appeal does get knocked back for RAAF pilot (because my parents didn't think of the gene pool when they got married) I would still want to experience military flying. It maybe possible to do this as a civvy at Tamworth.
So then what is life like? If you had a choice, what would you choose FJ or not? Would you give the RAAF a miss all together?. .fnb
Firstly, I have only ask these questions to find out whether the lifestyle and people in the RAAF are more organised and professional than the recuiting guys are. They don't seem to know anything! I have been told not to bother with the RAAF (from some ex-RAAF boys), as it is a waste of time, but this is hard to believe, or is it?
Rabbit, I'm aware that it is a lot of hard work, but if 9/10 don't make it, that means that 1/10 do. If I don't try then I will have no chance at all.
RPPT, well, here I was thinking that I could just walk in to the job and have a few 'business' trips at the expense of the ever loving taxpayer. So I take it the rumour I heard isn't true.
In order to work towards something, I'd like to know what I'm up against, and as I said above, recruiting have no idea. So I think now is a good time to start asking questions. If my appeal does get knocked back for RAAF pilot (because my parents didn't think of the gene pool when they got married) I would still want to experience military flying. It maybe possible to do this as a civvy at Tamworth.
So then what is life like? If you had a choice, what would you choose FJ or not? Would you give the RAAF a miss all together?. .fnb
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Franks,
That is a much better post than your original effort. And yes, you should be asking as many questions as you can.
Firstly, being a pilot in the RAAF is a great job. No matter what you fly, be it knucks, transport, maritime, VIP or AWACS, you will have a ball. That's my opinion anyway because I had a great time.
Secondly, being a RAAF pilot is not the perfect job. I would suggest to you that along with asking questions on this forum, that you also talk directly to current RAAF pilot's (and that include's students going through BFTS and 2FTS). The best way to do this is call the Ops Desk at a particular squadron (and why not call a few?), tell them why you are calling, and ask to speak to a pilot. Have a list of questions ready to go and ask them about the good, the bad and the ugly.
[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
That is a much better post than your original effort. And yes, you should be asking as many questions as you can.
Firstly, being a pilot in the RAAF is a great job. No matter what you fly, be it knucks, transport, maritime, VIP or AWACS, you will have a ball. That's my opinion anyway because I had a great time.
Secondly, being a RAAF pilot is not the perfect job. I would suggest to you that along with asking questions on this forum, that you also talk directly to current RAAF pilot's (and that include's students going through BFTS and 2FTS). The best way to do this is call the Ops Desk at a particular squadron (and why not call a few?), tell them why you are calling, and ask to speak to a pilot. Have a list of questions ready to go and ask them about the good, the bad and the ugly.
[ 06 February 2002: Message edited by: RPPT ]</p>
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RPPT. .thanks chief. I will start ringing around.
Does anyone know how bad the pilot shortage is, or will get over the next year or two?
Also, was told today by recruiting that once you are in, and your eyesight deteriorates below the entry standard, you lose your medical. With what I have already been told on this forum (oct 2001), and with my past experiences with recruiting, I don't believe it (but I didn't want to make the recruiting guy feel bad!). Can anyone shed some light on this?
Was also told that to get selected for the Empire Test Pilots course, you don't necessarily need to be a FJ pilot(?). Doesn't make much sense to me, but I'm no expert.
Cheers, fnb
Does anyone know how bad the pilot shortage is, or will get over the next year or two?
Also, was told today by recruiting that once you are in, and your eyesight deteriorates below the entry standard, you lose your medical. With what I have already been told on this forum (oct 2001), and with my past experiences with recruiting, I don't believe it (but I didn't want to make the recruiting guy feel bad!). Can anyone shed some light on this?
Was also told that to get selected for the Empire Test Pilots course, you don't necessarily need to be a FJ pilot(?). Doesn't make much sense to me, but I'm no expert.
Cheers, fnb
At the risk of getting philosophical, any choice you make in life is a bit of a gamble, and some people seem to get a better run than others - the same applies in the services. Some people leave cursing and bitching about the bad treatment they think they got while they were in, and others, like me, feel pretty lucky to have had some outstanding experiences whilst doing a job I really wanted to do.
I have just left the RAAF after 22 yrs (just got my payout today in fact - old DFRDB scheme, though, they're now on MSBS which is more in line with the public service).. .I did switch to the Army for a few years with no break in service, and from my point of view it was beneficial to do that because it prolonged the flying part of my career, which was fundamentally what I joined for anyway.
To answer some of your questions;
doing an instructors course opens up quite a few more posting and position options for you, tends to prolong your flying, and (I reckon) gives you an appreciation of different and rich aspects of flying. It is also more of a 5 day a week, 8 to 5 job than some squadrons, where you can't really plan your life because you never know when you'll be home.
Recruiting can tend to be a bit of a shambles because they don't necessarily know much about the flying side of the RAAF, and can tend to throw you furphs. Also, the services have taken a big hit in the admin area and now have people trying to wear a heap of hats at once, which tends to reduce the quality of service and advice you get. As was mentioned above, ring up or visit a squadron and talk to people. A 'no bull****' approach should work well.
Pilots from any type can go to test pilots courses; it's probably fair to say that the fast jet people are in the upper level of hands and feet skills, and also airborne situational awareness, but the graduation standard from RAAF pilots course means that most people who get through are no slouches either.
Anyway, I thought it was a top job, gave me a lot of good experiences and skills, and I can't think of many other things I would rather have done with those years. There were some times that weren't so flash, but not enough to matter.
I have just left the RAAF after 22 yrs (just got my payout today in fact - old DFRDB scheme, though, they're now on MSBS which is more in line with the public service).. .I did switch to the Army for a few years with no break in service, and from my point of view it was beneficial to do that because it prolonged the flying part of my career, which was fundamentally what I joined for anyway.
To answer some of your questions;
doing an instructors course opens up quite a few more posting and position options for you, tends to prolong your flying, and (I reckon) gives you an appreciation of different and rich aspects of flying. It is also more of a 5 day a week, 8 to 5 job than some squadrons, where you can't really plan your life because you never know when you'll be home.
Recruiting can tend to be a bit of a shambles because they don't necessarily know much about the flying side of the RAAF, and can tend to throw you furphs. Also, the services have taken a big hit in the admin area and now have people trying to wear a heap of hats at once, which tends to reduce the quality of service and advice you get. As was mentioned above, ring up or visit a squadron and talk to people. A 'no bull****' approach should work well.
Pilots from any type can go to test pilots courses; it's probably fair to say that the fast jet people are in the upper level of hands and feet skills, and also airborne situational awareness, but the graduation standard from RAAF pilots course means that most people who get through are no slouches either.
Anyway, I thought it was a top job, gave me a lot of good experiences and skills, and I can't think of many other things I would rather have done with those years. There were some times that weren't so flash, but not enough to matter.
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Re my previous, don't get me wrong, I absolutely enjoyed my time in the RAAF. I also suggest one of the most enjpyable roles is instructing which I did in various areas for about for the last 5 years of my RAAF time. Well that was way back when! As for now you will need to talk with a current RAAF pilot.
Have a nice day
Have a nice day
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Rabbit
F18/F111 time may have held you in better stead for the airlines.Two engines!
Paradox that,thought an engine failure in a Miracle more critical.
Work with a bloke who survived the above.First thing he did was buy a case of Scotch for the bloke who packed his parachute!(F8Crusader)
F18/F111 time may have held you in better stead for the airlines.Two engines!
Paradox that,thought an engine failure in a Miracle more critical.
Work with a bloke who survived the above.First thing he did was buy a case of Scotch for the bloke who packed his parachute!(F8Crusader)
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interesting questions from frank. .i too have put in an application to ADF, i understand they decide which service would suit you best. my question is, what about army or navy aviation? my understanding is that it's all rotary wing stuff but how do entry requirements differ from RAAF?. .i've done about 500+ fixed wing hours and have a CPL, IFR, and instructors, does that stand me in good stead?
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Arm out the window,. .thankyou for your input. I had heard that flying hrs start to drop off a bit after about 10 yrs, so it's good to know that there is a way around it. Sounds like you had a great career, with a good variety of flying. Have a good break (if that is what you are doing), don't drink too much.
Jet age, was told by RECRUITING(!?) that less flying hrs are preferred, as military flying is different to civil flying, and there tends to be an attitude problem from the more experienced applicants. But hey, he could have just been shooting me down because he may have thought I was being smart!
Jet age, was told by RECRUITING(!?) that less flying hrs are preferred, as military flying is different to civil flying, and there tends to be an attitude problem from the more experienced applicants. But hey, he could have just been shooting me down because he may have thought I was being smart!
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Franks,
With regards to the issue of deterioration of your eyesight, I believe that once you are through the door, and that includes being a student, your eyesight can deteriorate, so long as wearing glasses will correct your eyesight back to the minimum requirements. Yes, you can wear spectacles whilst flying - many RAAF pilots do, including PC9 students and QFI's. Not sure if they let knucks wear them though......maybe someone else can clarify that point. But I am not in RAAF Aviation Medicine, so once again, best bet is to get the info from the 'horse's mouth'. Maybe a call to the Senior Recruiting Officer in your nearest capital city, asking for clarification, or asking for someone in AvMed, may be an option for you. In any case, you will find out quickly enough in the initial selection procedures if your eyesight is good enough.
jetage,
Your hours will help you with passing Flight Screening. However, your experience will be factored into your scores at Tamworth. The RAAF web site explains further. As for pilots course (RAAF, RAN or ARA) you start at scratch like everyone else and the syllabus presumes you have no flying experience. As for differences between the services, the policy used to be (and I imagine it still is) that you get one shot at flt screening and your scores are used by all 3 services if indeed you are applying to more than one of them. Does that make sense? As franksnbeans mentions, attitude is a big player. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
With regards to the issue of deterioration of your eyesight, I believe that once you are through the door, and that includes being a student, your eyesight can deteriorate, so long as wearing glasses will correct your eyesight back to the minimum requirements. Yes, you can wear spectacles whilst flying - many RAAF pilots do, including PC9 students and QFI's. Not sure if they let knucks wear them though......maybe someone else can clarify that point. But I am not in RAAF Aviation Medicine, so once again, best bet is to get the info from the 'horse's mouth'. Maybe a call to the Senior Recruiting Officer in your nearest capital city, asking for clarification, or asking for someone in AvMed, may be an option for you. In any case, you will find out quickly enough in the initial selection procedures if your eyesight is good enough.
jetage,
Your hours will help you with passing Flight Screening. However, your experience will be factored into your scores at Tamworth. The RAAF web site explains further. As for pilots course (RAAF, RAN or ARA) you start at scratch like everyone else and the syllabus presumes you have no flying experience. As for differences between the services, the policy used to be (and I imagine it still is) that you get one shot at flt screening and your scores are used by all 3 services if indeed you are applying to more than one of them. Does that make sense? As franksnbeans mentions, attitude is a big player. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Franksnbeans,
Thanks mate, I'm trying not to get on the swill too much, but somehow the relaxed lifestyle I'm now leading is too conducive to it!
Jetage, from what I saw while I was instructing, some previous experience was helpful in the early stages, but when the course moved on to things that may not have been seen before (form, time on target low nav etc.), everyone was back on an even par again.. .Also, the services have fairly specific ways of doing things when it comes to flying - I don't mean no flexibility; but basic stuff, like what sort of a scan you should do whilst flying, how you should set, hold and trim an attitude, etc. etc.. .If you have developed habits that don't quite mesh with what's being taught, it can be a bit hard to 'unlearn'. Probably no big deal, but something to be aware of, and maybe a source of frustration for some.
The Army are mainly rotary, but also fly Twotters and King Airs, although I think everyone does a basic rotary course to start with (a bonus, I reckon!). . .The Navy sadly only have choppers since the Fleet Air Arm was decimated quite a few years ago now. Having said that, they have got some good machines.
Good luck.
Thanks mate, I'm trying not to get on the swill too much, but somehow the relaxed lifestyle I'm now leading is too conducive to it!
Jetage, from what I saw while I was instructing, some previous experience was helpful in the early stages, but when the course moved on to things that may not have been seen before (form, time on target low nav etc.), everyone was back on an even par again.. .Also, the services have fairly specific ways of doing things when it comes to flying - I don't mean no flexibility; but basic stuff, like what sort of a scan you should do whilst flying, how you should set, hold and trim an attitude, etc. etc.. .If you have developed habits that don't quite mesh with what's being taught, it can be a bit hard to 'unlearn'. Probably no big deal, but something to be aware of, and maybe a source of frustration for some.
The Army are mainly rotary, but also fly Twotters and King Airs, although I think everyone does a basic rotary course to start with (a bonus, I reckon!). . .The Navy sadly only have choppers since the Fleet Air Arm was decimated quite a few years ago now. Having said that, they have got some good machines.
Good luck.
Franks,. .This topic has been raised before. A search of my posts may find relevant comments from me and others from about a year ago. To summarise, my answers to some of your questions are.... .- the RAAF is a great life if that's what you want it to be! And when I' had enough (13 yrs)I left in good spirits, with great memories of the best adrenaline-charged(ie fast-jet) flying I could imagine,. .- it's not all beer'n'skittles. There are always frustrations, not enough flying, secondary duties (ie officer-not-pilot admin stuff), absences from home etc.... .- I got glasses before I finished pilot course, I wore them in transport and fast-jet class aircraft, I wore contact lenses once they were approved, and I learned to accommodate...but I didn't 'lose my medical'...that's a recruiting red herring!. .- the RAAF was a great start to a flying career, doing stuff that you can't do outside the military. It was worth every second of the hard work, preparation, briefing, deploying, disruption, occasional near-death situation for which I had been well trained, and satisfaction of doing an intense job well.. .Good luck as you decide!
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I am ex-RAAF now QF. Went for my aviation medical the other day, and the DAME (also an ex-RAAF doctor) told me that the RAAF may soon be accepting candidates for pilots course who wear glasses.
If so - an interesting development.
If so - an interesting development.