The "heroes" of Ansett 1989-2002.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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A two bladed question for y'all.
How do those from that year who absconded O/S and became entrenched in good paying positions justify the fact that they took jobs that could/should have been given to locals?????
And for those that stayed, how did/do you justify your decision to stay/return?????
How do those from that year who absconded O/S and became entrenched in good paying positions justify the fact that they took jobs that could/should have been given to locals?????
And for those that stayed, how did/do you justify your decision to stay/return?????
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ANFO,
Whilst a few 89'ers did move into GA jobs I'm afraid it was a two way street with numerous GA pilots relishing the chance to take up an airline job. Few GA pilots (Woomera was one I believe, mucho cred there) refused to apply to the airlines during the dispute. . .The famous list is quite numerous in GA names going into the airlines and I count 14 going into EWA alone. And no, I didn't go into a GA job.
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: bonvol ]</p>
Whilst a few 89'ers did move into GA jobs I'm afraid it was a two way street with numerous GA pilots relishing the chance to take up an airline job. Few GA pilots (Woomera was one I believe, mucho cred there) refused to apply to the airlines during the dispute. . .The famous list is quite numerous in GA names going into the airlines and I count 14 going into EWA alone. And no, I didn't go into a GA job.
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: bonvol ]</p>
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
So I guess we won't be seeing ANY of the unemployed Ansett pilots of 2001 taking G.A. jobs - even though they haven't resigned?
Certainly I wouldn't have condoned the actions of any of the 1989 pilots, if they aggressively took jobs away from incumbents, however if positions were advertised as vacant, then they had every right to apply. On the other hand the Federation published full page notices in ALL Australian aviation media, and Flight magazine - which is distributed worldwide - advising that there was an Industrial dispute in Oz between the 4 domestic airlines and the Federation (representing the pilots), with a recruitment ban enacted, contrary to any job vacancies advertised by Ansett, East-West, Australian Airlines, and IPEC.
Had G.A. pilots, who are also represented by the AFAP, requested a directive be issued to stop the dispute pilots taking jobs away from them - or had this in fact been the case - then it would have been respected. . .Funny how I didn't hear about any of these G.A. jobs being forcefully taken, in 1989, until well after the dispute was over!
Certainly I wouldn't have condoned the actions of any of the 1989 pilots, if they aggressively took jobs away from incumbents, however if positions were advertised as vacant, then they had every right to apply. On the other hand the Federation published full page notices in ALL Australian aviation media, and Flight magazine - which is distributed worldwide - advising that there was an Industrial dispute in Oz between the 4 domestic airlines and the Federation (representing the pilots), with a recruitment ban enacted, contrary to any job vacancies advertised by Ansett, East-West, Australian Airlines, and IPEC.
Had G.A. pilots, who are also represented by the AFAP, requested a directive be issued to stop the dispute pilots taking jobs away from them - or had this in fact been the case - then it would have been respected. . .Funny how I didn't hear about any of these G.A. jobs being forcefully taken, in 1989, until well after the dispute was over!
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Hmmm. Now, ANFO is, or was, I assume, and AN F/O.. .So, it was OK to scab, but not OK for someone whose job he grabbed to look for employment in GA.. .Just a little lost on the logic there old son.. .In any case, the insinuation is that the "Feds" flooded the GA market, and it simply isn't true.. .But we must remember, that once in for the big steal, that automatically qualifies one for the big lies. So the attempt to rewrite history.. .And who cares about the resignations or writs one way or the other? The agenda was on the deceased Abeles plate irrespective of the AFAP action. All he needed was the likes of Hawke and Kelty in his pocket, and he had 'em!. .Remember, the ACTU was a party to all of the action against the pilots at the time. They did not care a fig for pilots, and while certain members of that disgraceful organisation may have felt some disquiet, they were all held on a tight leash by the now deceased Abeles via Kelty. The now deceased Abeles bought and paid for it ANFO, and you fell for it because your mindset is like all scabs: "what's in it for me?". .I stress the "deceased" Abeles because all history owes the dead is the truth, and the truth about this person is that he was unworthy to be called an Australian. By association, neither is Hawke, nor Kelty. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: Tool Time Two ]</p>
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: Tool Time Two ]</p>
Seems like these guys represent wharfies more than so called professionals.
How many "professions" apart from teaching and sex workers have union style organisations.
To harp on about how badly done by you were by a big bad boss is just admitting that you are nothing but factory fodder that probably deserved a bit of shaking out.
How many "professions" apart from teaching and sex workers have union style organisations.
To harp on about how badly done by you were by a big bad boss is just admitting that you are nothing but factory fodder that probably deserved a bit of shaking out.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
And Lead Balloon, subsequent managements have PROVEN that most workers, whether they're wharfies, teachers, public servants, or pilots need the barrier of protection afforded by a union.. .Currently I work under contract to an airline that originally had no unionised pilot group. Because of the aggressive, lying management, the pilots have - out of NECESSITY - now formed a union, and surprise, surprise, they are now achieving some improvements in their working conditions, whereas before the SAME requests were met with sneers or lies.. .Meanwhile, the other contract workers are repeatedly lied to and misled by this management!
My thoughts on unions has done a complete 180 over the past 13 or 14 years - for GOOD reason. Some workers NEED to be protected from omnipotent managers.
The fate of the majority of the Ansett pilots in 2001/02 PROVED that a relative greedy few (scabs) SERIOUSLY affected ALL Australian pilots' futures, in 1989, when they cut the AFAP out of the negotiating process!
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
My thoughts on unions has done a complete 180 over the past 13 or 14 years - for GOOD reason. Some workers NEED to be protected from omnipotent managers.
The fate of the majority of the Ansett pilots in 2001/02 PROVED that a relative greedy few (scabs) SERIOUSLY affected ALL Australian pilots' futures, in 1989, when they cut the AFAP out of the negotiating process!
[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
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[quote] How many "professions" apart from teaching and sex workers have union style organisations.. . <hr></blockquote>
Lead balloon,. .Here is a few. There's plenty more, and just as many employer associations.
Australian Nursing Federation. .Health & Community Services Union . .Health Services Union of Australia . .Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia. .Australian Professional Footballers Association. .Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation. .Civil Air Operations Officers Association of Australia. .Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance. .Police Federation of Australia. .Victorian Psychologists Association. .United Firefighters Union of Australia. .Finance Sector Union. .Australian Nursing Federation. .Australian Writers Guild . .Australian Society of Authors . .Royal Australian Institute of Architects . .Screen Producers Assocation of Australia . .Musicians Union of Australia . .Civil Contractors Federation. .Community and Public Sector Union. .Fire Contractors Federation. .Managers and Financial Executives Association. .Master Builders Association . .National Electrical Contractors Association. .Pharmacy Guild of Australia. .Private Hospitals Industrial Association of Australia. .IT Workers Alliance. .Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association. .Customs Officers Association of Australia. .Graphic Arts Services Association of Australia. .Farmers Federation Industrial Association
Lead balloon,. .Here is a few. There's plenty more, and just as many employer associations.
Australian Nursing Federation. .Health & Community Services Union . .Health Services Union of Australia . .Association of Professional Engineers, Scientists and Managers Australia. .Australian Professional Footballers Association. .Australian Salaried Medical Officers Federation. .Civil Air Operations Officers Association of Australia. .Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance. .Police Federation of Australia. .Victorian Psychologists Association. .United Firefighters Union of Australia. .Finance Sector Union. .Australian Nursing Federation. .Australian Writers Guild . .Australian Society of Authors . .Royal Australian Institute of Architects . .Screen Producers Assocation of Australia . .Musicians Union of Australia . .Civil Contractors Federation. .Community and Public Sector Union. .Fire Contractors Federation. .Managers and Financial Executives Association. .Master Builders Association . .National Electrical Contractors Association. .Pharmacy Guild of Australia. .Private Hospitals Industrial Association of Australia. .IT Workers Alliance. .Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association. .Customs Officers Association of Australia. .Graphic Arts Services Association of Australia. .Farmers Federation Industrial Association
Oops, I'm sorry. You're right.
A professional is merely a person who performs a task for money.
Nothing to do with attitude, bearing and intelligence, position in society etc.
I for one, agree with you. Pilots should be lobbed in with the list of professional red raggers like, electricians and fire system installers. You also forgot carpet technicians and sanitary engineers.
A professional is merely a person who performs a task for money.
Nothing to do with attitude, bearing and intelligence, position in society etc.
I for one, agree with you. Pilots should be lobbed in with the list of professional red raggers like, electricians and fire system installers. You also forgot carpet technicians and sanitary engineers.
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Being a profesional is not just a word on a business card, it is an attitude and work ethic.
Not a holier than thou outlook upon the world, and an attitude to belittle others.
Forgotten where you came from, or didn't you have to work to get there LB? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Not a holier than thou outlook upon the world, and an attitude to belittle others.
Forgotten where you came from, or didn't you have to work to get there LB? <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
[quote] Pilots should be lobbed in with the list of professional red raggers like, electricians and fire system installers.<hr></blockquote>
Yep, we're ALL pinky, commie b@st@rds, LB - out to sabotage the government and destroy the economy! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Don't forget to check under your bed tonight, just before you turn the lights out.
And, of course, those out to bust the unions and take away the right to fair representation for the employers, are crusaders on white chargers. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Yep, we're ALL pinky, commie b@st@rds, LB - out to sabotage the government and destroy the economy! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Don't forget to check under your bed tonight, just before you turn the lights out.
And, of course, those out to bust the unions and take away the right to fair representation for the employers, are crusaders on white chargers. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Not all the Pilots that went O/S in 89 went to well paid jobs. . .I remember in the early 90's when my father called me at the house that I was sharing with 3 other 89ers.. He asked "how's life?", trying not to be negative my Answer was Life's interesting, the local are treating us well and our accommodation is not too good...The rest of the conversation was drowned out by Barking and Howling by my Flatmates( We called it the Doghouse) The rent of this place was US$800/month (200 each). My salary was US$1100-1300/month (incl allowances)and we had to pay the rent. We had no travel rights and due to the restriction of our Visa could not leave the country until we had completed 6 months employment.
Now what happened in 1989 was not my fault or 99% of the Pilots that were caught up in it. I voted no to the dispute but I also elected to stay out.. .The elder group of my family are Lawyers, Business managers and Aviation middle managers so I was used to the dinner that included half an hour of Union bashing. The fact is one of my many lessons in life is that Unions definately have their place. . .The AFAP's role was determined by the control that Abeles had over Hawke, Strong and Kelty. The Federation with their 2nd class Legal team helped contribute to the 89 dispute being blown out of hand.. .When Hawke declared "War" on us and proceeded to insult our profession I felt that Aviation in Australia was not going the direction that I wanted so I left on my O/S adventure.
We will spend much of our energy hating each other within the Pilot fraternity of OZ whilst Airline managers in Australia continue to degrade Pilot's conditions.
I have no regrets to moving overseas. Everybody in that $800 house has done very well. And I don't have the undying hatred that some have towards the ones who went back. . .You reap what you sow. There have been personal disasters on both sides. . .But I feel there still is a lot of ignorance to the events of 12 years ago.
Now what happened in 1989 was not my fault or 99% of the Pilots that were caught up in it. I voted no to the dispute but I also elected to stay out.. .The elder group of my family are Lawyers, Business managers and Aviation middle managers so I was used to the dinner that included half an hour of Union bashing. The fact is one of my many lessons in life is that Unions definately have their place. . .The AFAP's role was determined by the control that Abeles had over Hawke, Strong and Kelty. The Federation with their 2nd class Legal team helped contribute to the 89 dispute being blown out of hand.. .When Hawke declared "War" on us and proceeded to insult our profession I felt that Aviation in Australia was not going the direction that I wanted so I left on my O/S adventure.
We will spend much of our energy hating each other within the Pilot fraternity of OZ whilst Airline managers in Australia continue to degrade Pilot's conditions.
I have no regrets to moving overseas. Everybody in that $800 house has done very well. And I don't have the undying hatred that some have towards the ones who went back. . .You reap what you sow. There have been personal disasters on both sides. . .But I feel there still is a lot of ignorance to the events of 12 years ago.
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Few more pinkos here <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Medical Scientists Association . .Australian Medical Association. .Law Council of Australia. .Australian Maritime Officers Union. .Ansett Pilots Association. .Australian Federation of Air Pilots. .Australian Airline Flight Engineers Association. .Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association
Medical Scientists Association . .Australian Medical Association. .Law Council of Australia. .Australian Maritime Officers Union. .Ansett Pilots Association. .Australian Federation of Air Pilots. .Australian Airline Flight Engineers Association. .Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association
Spot on 429 CJ.
Being a professional has nothing to do with title. It's often confused with what you do for work. Unfortunately there is no "tongue in cheek" emoticon for this system for me to use in some of my posts.
Kapt M, well what can I say...
Being a professional has nothing to do with title. It's often confused with what you do for work. Unfortunately there is no "tongue in cheek" emoticon for this system for me to use in some of my posts.
Kapt M, well what can I say...