The "heroes" of Ansett 1989-2002.
Daytrader, you forgot:
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> (Please note the wink.)
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.
. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> (Please note the wink.)
BTW
I think LB’s conflated learned professionals with all professionals.
The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines “profession” to mean, among other things, a “vocation or calling, esp[ecially] one that involves some branch of advanced learning or science”. Examples given of the use of the word “professional” are: “the military profession; a carpenter by profession”.
Thus, according to the COD, one may be a “professional boxer” or a “professional golfer”.
One may also be a member of “the oldest profession – prostitution”.
And one may be a member of “the learned professions – divinity, law or medicine”.
Pilots who are paid to be pilots are doubtless thereby members of a profession, but not a learned profession.
Yet we should take a leaf out of Father Galapagos’s divine professional pilots good book, and forgive LB, for he nose not what he done.
I think LB’s conflated learned professionals with all professionals.
The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines “profession” to mean, among other things, a “vocation or calling, esp[ecially] one that involves some branch of advanced learning or science”. Examples given of the use of the word “professional” are: “the military profession; a carpenter by profession”.
Thus, according to the COD, one may be a “professional boxer” or a “professional golfer”.
One may also be a member of “the oldest profession – prostitution”.
And one may be a member of “the learned professions – divinity, law or medicine”.
Pilots who are paid to be pilots are doubtless thereby members of a profession, but not a learned profession.
Yet we should take a leaf out of Father Galapagos’s divine professional pilots good book, and forgive LB, for he nose not what he done.
Ohh ****** off creampuff. Meethinks you owe me lunch, not the other way around.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Thread Starter
I'll have a go at this one, Viper,. . [quote]How do those from that year who absconded O/S and became entrenched in good paying positions justify the fact that they took jobs that could/should have been given to locals?????<hr></blockquote>
In almost all cases, jobs advertised for o/s positions are done so simply because there are not sufficient numbers of qualified locals to fill the positions - the (FALLACIOUS) argument used by the airline companies in Australia in 1989, as they attempted to break the Federation by trying to force each of us to apply individually (rather than through our long-established representative and negotiator).
The jobs advertised (o/s) will always indicate that they are for ex-pats, and will carry some extra benefits such as housing assistance, schooling for the children, and arrangements for return of personal possessions back home at the completion of contract.. .All ex-pats are aware that they will be the first to lose their jobs (ahead of the most junior locals), during bad times, and there is usually no provision made in the contract for upgrading.
So simply, no jobs were taken away from the locals. The airlines know, each year, how many of their local pilots will be ready for upgrade, and recruit outsiders to fill in the extra slots caused by growth, or high attrition through retirement, of their pilot group.. .And it is done with the knowledge and consent of the unions representing the local pilots!
In almost all cases, jobs advertised for o/s positions are done so simply because there are not sufficient numbers of qualified locals to fill the positions - the (FALLACIOUS) argument used by the airline companies in Australia in 1989, as they attempted to break the Federation by trying to force each of us to apply individually (rather than through our long-established representative and negotiator).
The jobs advertised (o/s) will always indicate that they are for ex-pats, and will carry some extra benefits such as housing assistance, schooling for the children, and arrangements for return of personal possessions back home at the completion of contract.. .All ex-pats are aware that they will be the first to lose their jobs (ahead of the most junior locals), during bad times, and there is usually no provision made in the contract for upgrading.
So simply, no jobs were taken away from the locals. The airlines know, each year, how many of their local pilots will be ready for upgrade, and recruit outsiders to fill in the extra slots caused by growth, or high attrition through retirement, of their pilot group.. .And it is done with the knowledge and consent of the unions representing the local pilots!
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Sorry 429cj,
Try:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9958/pd89int.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9958/pd89int.htm</a>
This will do the trick.
Try:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9958/pd89int.htm" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9958/pd89int.htm</a>
This will do the trick.
Don Quixote Impersonator
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It is also a fact that in the time preceding the event there was a worldwide shortage of suitable pilots notwithstanding that their own internal training pipelines were full. . .Further the Oz airlines were at the time reviewing applications (much to many applicants surprise) that they had previously either rejected out of hand or applied the don't ring us we'll ring you stamp.. .Demand was way ahead of capacity!. .That is, those who were employable were employed with many vacancies still available.. .The major airlines around the world couldn't believe their luck when all of a sudden this flood of very well trained pilots became available. . .No one was talking anybodies job outside of Australia.
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What a load of introspective rubbish this post has turned into.
Yet again the 89'ers have hijacked an otherwise great forum.
Why don't you people divert your anger and resentment to maybe setting up your own private forum where you can whinge and moan to your heart's content.
Have a great life.
Yet again the 89'ers have hijacked an otherwise great forum.
Why don't you people divert your anger and resentment to maybe setting up your own private forum where you can whinge and moan to your heart's content.
Have a great life.
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When all is said and done, the dispute brought out the best and the worst in people. The actions of the govt of the were particularly reprehensible. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Sly'n Smiley ]</p>
[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Sly'n Smiley ]</p>
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Rabbit, the above link has been around for a while. My posting of Feb 3rd (above) is esentially a precis of the 1 st. paragragh of Alex Paterson's account of the dispute. You then describe my post as "cr@p". You cant have it both ways.
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Slasher, I have always enjoyed your posts. I agree with you; Hawke and Ables broke the social contract when they declared 'war' on the Feds. The recent events whereby QF management and the Federal government conspired to bring about AN demise was also a breach of the social contract. I too have resolved that I will never pay tax in Australia again.
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Too Time2, yet again your logic is convoluted. I never 'scabed'. It's as simple as that. I am not on Neil's list and nor should I be. I did not EVER salivate at the prospect of "taking somones job" at Ansett. I applied for a poition at AN some months before the dispute, was interviewed after the 'Feds said all should reapply for their jobs and started ground school late in '90. I dont think that makes me a scab. If fact, I was offered the chance to really be a scab during the AnNZ lock out(offered a 146 command) and I knocked it back. I do know of a couple of GA guys who DID ramp up their applications to AN and TN at the time. One of the instant Captains at AnExpress bragged to me about how when he found out about the resignations he was over to AN offices like a flash to apply for a job. The actions of these people are reprehensible and I have never supported them. The people who I do support are those who felt coerced into resigning or came to the realisation that the AFAP had blown the deal and came back; it takes strenghth of character to admit you've made a big mistake and brush off peer pressure. Similarly, I admire those who took the moral stand that they would no longer work for a company that sought to destroy them and set off to another life. However, remember that industrial action was started by AFAP. The companies didn't lock you out or anything and I think that those involved should realise that they have some responsibility for the outcome. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">