Virgin Blue - What's it really like?
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Virgin Blue - What's it really like?
I am new to this forum!
Yes, I know the job situation in OZ is bleak... But I have an Australian mate who is interested in joining Virgin Blue when (if) hiring ever resumes to normal. I have a few questions for Virgin Blue pilots (or others who are familiar with the operation) in the know:
1. Are you happy at Virgin Blue (general mood)?
2. Do you enjoy the route structure and aircraft (737NGs)?
3. What is a "typical" day's schedule like - how many sectors - any examples of a recent trip with sectors?
. .Thank you for providing information. This will be helpful - my mate is depressed by the current situation but he is optimistic...
. .Cheers
Yes, I know the job situation in OZ is bleak... But I have an Australian mate who is interested in joining Virgin Blue when (if) hiring ever resumes to normal. I have a few questions for Virgin Blue pilots (or others who are familiar with the operation) in the know:
1. Are you happy at Virgin Blue (general mood)?
2. Do you enjoy the route structure and aircraft (737NGs)?
3. What is a "typical" day's schedule like - how many sectors - any examples of a recent trip with sectors?
. .Thank you for providing information. This will be helpful - my mate is depressed by the current situation but he is optimistic...
. .Cheers
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Nipilnibla,
Yes, I am for real. I thought Aussies were supposed to be friendly - I guess I was wrong...
My mate has the following qualifications:
1. 4000+ hours. .2. GIV Type Rating (tired of corporate). .3. CFII
Jimbo James - did you note the words "this forum"? Are you just stupid in addition to not being funny? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha (see, someone's laughing at your lame reference. Do you feel better now?). Trust me, comedy ain't your thing. And I doubt flying is...
. .Anyone have any real answers? I ask simple questions - I am trying to help my mate - that's all....
. .Cheers
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Woomera ]</p>
Yes, I am for real. I thought Aussies were supposed to be friendly - I guess I was wrong...
My mate has the following qualifications:
1. 4000+ hours. .2. GIV Type Rating (tired of corporate). .3. CFII
Jimbo James - did you note the words "this forum"? Are you just stupid in addition to not being funny? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha (see, someone's laughing at your lame reference. Do you feel better now?). Trust me, comedy ain't your thing. And I doubt flying is...
. .Anyone have any real answers? I ask simple questions - I am trying to help my mate - that's all....
. .Cheers
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: Woomera ]</p>
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Hi LAVDUMPER,
I have a mate working for VB and he tells me the vibe is very positive within the camp. There is very fast promotion in the company e.g. Alot of FO's get their command after six months.. .I think they get around nine layovers a month and work between sixty to eighty hours.. .My friend said unlike Ansett and Qantas all the flight planning is manual which takes up alot more of their time and he also said that it is quite disorganised within the company procedures.. .He said his training was fairly relaxed (only had 40 hours on the 737 before being checked to line! He had a few sectors cancelled which the company did not replace). .He had to pax up in row 23 and pay for his food as well....so don't expect special treatment...you are just fodder for the flying PR machine.. .It $25,000 for the 73 endorsement with VB which is payed back at a later stage (don't ask me how). .and then you have to fly yourself to seattle for the NG endorsement usually about a month after your check.. .I have never heard a VB pilot complaining!
I have a mate working for VB and he tells me the vibe is very positive within the camp. There is very fast promotion in the company e.g. Alot of FO's get their command after six months.. .I think they get around nine layovers a month and work between sixty to eighty hours.. .My friend said unlike Ansett and Qantas all the flight planning is manual which takes up alot more of their time and he also said that it is quite disorganised within the company procedures.. .He said his training was fairly relaxed (only had 40 hours on the 737 before being checked to line! He had a few sectors cancelled which the company did not replace). .He had to pax up in row 23 and pay for his food as well....so don't expect special treatment...you are just fodder for the flying PR machine.. .It $25,000 for the 73 endorsement with VB which is payed back at a later stage (don't ask me how). .and then you have to fly yourself to seattle for the NG endorsement usually about a month after your check.. .I have never heard a VB pilot complaining!
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GWPSOR,
Either you were drunk when your mate gave you this information or you don't really have any mates at all...at least not at Virgin.
1) Flight planning is not manual. All plans are pre filed with NAIPS. Only requirement is that the correct fuel is calculated for each trip. Takes about two minutes to do that. We do have to read the weather and NOTAMS but I'd be surprised if QF and AN pilots didn't have to do that as well. Company procedures here are as organised as any place I have worked or heard of. Always working to make things better where needed. A new computerised flight planning system is being implemented as we speak and is in use on several routes, soon to be all routes within a few weeks and trip fuel figures are already done for you saving about 90 seconds of calcuating time. The PIC still pickes a total fuel load for the trip.
2) Training is not required to cover any minimum number of sectors. People with no 737 experience or any signignificant large jet time get around 100 hours of line training. Experienced piots will get less but no less than is required to meet the performance criteria set out in our CASA approved training manual.
3)VB doesn't do 737 type ratings thus they don't charge $25,000 for one either. The Cost of obtaining a rating if required is up to you in that you shop for the best deal. It can be done for $20,000AUD. "...you have to fly yourself to Seattle for the NG endorcement..." I assume by this you mean that VB don't send an escort along to hold your "mates" hand? VB pays for the trip, all allowances in advance, accomodation and course cost provided. All you have to do is have a good time.
4)You got one thing right. Nobody complains around here because its a great place to work and we are treated very well and with respect.
The post was directed at VB pilots GWPSOR, unless you have your facts correct you might consider keeping the negative tone of your comments out of your posts.
LAV, check archives for VB stuff. This info has been posted numerous times.
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]
[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]</p>
Either you were drunk when your mate gave you this information or you don't really have any mates at all...at least not at Virgin.
1) Flight planning is not manual. All plans are pre filed with NAIPS. Only requirement is that the correct fuel is calculated for each trip. Takes about two minutes to do that. We do have to read the weather and NOTAMS but I'd be surprised if QF and AN pilots didn't have to do that as well. Company procedures here are as organised as any place I have worked or heard of. Always working to make things better where needed. A new computerised flight planning system is being implemented as we speak and is in use on several routes, soon to be all routes within a few weeks and trip fuel figures are already done for you saving about 90 seconds of calcuating time. The PIC still pickes a total fuel load for the trip.
2) Training is not required to cover any minimum number of sectors. People with no 737 experience or any signignificant large jet time get around 100 hours of line training. Experienced piots will get less but no less than is required to meet the performance criteria set out in our CASA approved training manual.
3)VB doesn't do 737 type ratings thus they don't charge $25,000 for one either. The Cost of obtaining a rating if required is up to you in that you shop for the best deal. It can be done for $20,000AUD. "...you have to fly yourself to Seattle for the NG endorcement..." I assume by this you mean that VB don't send an escort along to hold your "mates" hand? VB pays for the trip, all allowances in advance, accomodation and course cost provided. All you have to do is have a good time.
4)You got one thing right. Nobody complains around here because its a great place to work and we are treated very well and with respect.
The post was directed at VB pilots GWPSOR, unless you have your facts correct you might consider keeping the negative tone of your comments out of your posts.
LAV, check archives for VB stuff. This info has been posted numerous times.
[ 30 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]
[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]</p>
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Thanks Jimbo for your etiquette lesson... I am new to this forum and I am seeking helpful information and you wasted our collective time with a useless response - not funny. You'll find that not appreciated on other forums...
GWPSOR - thanks for your response. Very useful details. Which carrier do you fly for - Qantas? What type do you fly?
. .Anyone else have anything constructive to add? Any schedule examples or points related to the aircraft flown? I appreciate your help...
. .Cheers
GWPSOR - thanks for your response. Very useful details. Which carrier do you fly for - Qantas? What type do you fly?
. .Anyone else have anything constructive to add? Any schedule examples or points related to the aircraft flown? I appreciate your help...
. .Cheers
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Thankyou for that useful information sprucegoose. I can tell you are a true gentleman.
These ARE the personal experiences I have heard from a VB first officer.
I did say the vibe at Virgin is said to be positive and that I have never heard anyone complain.
So there is a new computerised system being installed as we speak...I guess that will help to speed up the process. Good to hear.
Sprucegoose, there is no need to bring up the lack of respect at AN or QF. What have they done to you?
LAVDUMPER, most australians are great so don't get the wrong idea by defensive individuals with an attitude problem that are on pprune probation.
Good luck to your friend.
These ARE the personal experiences I have heard from a VB first officer.
I did say the vibe at Virgin is said to be positive and that I have never heard anyone complain.
So there is a new computerised system being installed as we speak...I guess that will help to speed up the process. Good to hear.
Sprucegoose, there is no need to bring up the lack of respect at AN or QF. What have they done to you?
LAVDUMPER, most australians are great so don't get the wrong idea by defensive individuals with an attitude problem that are on pprune probation.
Good luck to your friend.
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Don't take him too hart. I made what I thought was a fairly innocuous comment on a QF thread and copped a bollocking from the same "gentleman". . .What QF and AN did was not accept him maybe. . .By his own admission he is not Australian!
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Calling all 89ers,. .Calling all 89ers,. .Calling all 89ers,
Hear Ye Hear Ye 89ers only.. .John Raby will ask "Where were you flying in 89"
You all have a nice day now******** <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Hear Ye Hear Ye 89ers only.. .John Raby will ask "Where were you flying in 89"
You all have a nice day now******** <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Actually Sprucie is a really nice bloke, but I suspect a little punch-drunk - we are all getting quite defensive about our little airline, with people starting blatently untrue rumours and electronically beating us up.
The reality is this:
The airline is modelled on SouthWest Airlines - a very successful "regional" airlines in the US with about 400 737's. Fortunately we have not been quite so anal about equipment fit on the aeroplanes - we actually have autobrake and autothrottle and PFD/ND displays on the NG's - SW have all aeroplanes configured like 200's - no autothrottle, autobrake, VNAV etc - none of the niceties.
To get a job with SW you need to apply with a type rating. Once your in you get trained the SW way, but you still need the basic endorsement.
It is the same with DJ. The airline does not have the approvals to run endorsement courses.
The cost of obtaining the initial endorsement is up to you - though they do offer you the job in writing before you need to spend the bucks.
It does seem to be an amazing motivator - having outlayed that sort of dough.
The NG course is TOTALLY paid for by Virgin, with NO input from the individual. It is a couple of days in the CBT room and 3 sims, plus a couple of other bits. This takes place is Seattle. Virgin pays for everything including OS allowances.
The average is 8-9 days off, and people (particularly Captains) are working fairly solidly albiet under straight CAO 48 (not the concession).
The training load has been quite heavy, with significant expansion having taken place since commencing operations, however my experience of the C&T community has been positive - Big T for training... with PLENTY of very experienced people as Trainers and Checkers - it isn't an exercise in I know more that you, which is excellent if you are the student.
This isn't a 60 year old airline and as such has some systemic problems, but those problems seem to get addressed as they arise - all anyone can ask for in my humble opinion.
The manual flight planning system is a bit "mandraulic" but amazingly accurate - given the constraints - but will be replaced in the not too distant future by Airpath - the same system as used by Ansett, Cathay, Thai and others. A significant investment in the future if you compare the costs versus what the Company paid for the NAIPS based product (zip).
The aeroplanes are in pretty good shape, particularly the NG's, the 800 is a great machine.
All in all there are negatives, but for the vast majority of us there they are far outweighed by the positives - I am looking forward to my spoofy leather jacket for example.
The Company has given MANY very good pilots opportunities that they would probably not have had otherwise - and has given a good number of ex AN people a second chance at a career in Australia.
Take the above for what it is worth - the opinion of a person obviously coloured by personal experience. I am biased and make no apology for that.
I hope that everyone that wants a job in whichever airline that they seek it gets one - and I wish that we would not be collectively seeking to see the destruction of one airline or the other - live and let live!
The reality is this:
The airline is modelled on SouthWest Airlines - a very successful "regional" airlines in the US with about 400 737's. Fortunately we have not been quite so anal about equipment fit on the aeroplanes - we actually have autobrake and autothrottle and PFD/ND displays on the NG's - SW have all aeroplanes configured like 200's - no autothrottle, autobrake, VNAV etc - none of the niceties.
To get a job with SW you need to apply with a type rating. Once your in you get trained the SW way, but you still need the basic endorsement.
It is the same with DJ. The airline does not have the approvals to run endorsement courses.
The cost of obtaining the initial endorsement is up to you - though they do offer you the job in writing before you need to spend the bucks.
It does seem to be an amazing motivator - having outlayed that sort of dough.
The NG course is TOTALLY paid for by Virgin, with NO input from the individual. It is a couple of days in the CBT room and 3 sims, plus a couple of other bits. This takes place is Seattle. Virgin pays for everything including OS allowances.
The average is 8-9 days off, and people (particularly Captains) are working fairly solidly albiet under straight CAO 48 (not the concession).
The training load has been quite heavy, with significant expansion having taken place since commencing operations, however my experience of the C&T community has been positive - Big T for training... with PLENTY of very experienced people as Trainers and Checkers - it isn't an exercise in I know more that you, which is excellent if you are the student.
This isn't a 60 year old airline and as such has some systemic problems, but those problems seem to get addressed as they arise - all anyone can ask for in my humble opinion.
The manual flight planning system is a bit "mandraulic" but amazingly accurate - given the constraints - but will be replaced in the not too distant future by Airpath - the same system as used by Ansett, Cathay, Thai and others. A significant investment in the future if you compare the costs versus what the Company paid for the NAIPS based product (zip).
The aeroplanes are in pretty good shape, particularly the NG's, the 800 is a great machine.
All in all there are negatives, but for the vast majority of us there they are far outweighed by the positives - I am looking forward to my spoofy leather jacket for example.
The Company has given MANY very good pilots opportunities that they would probably not have had otherwise - and has given a good number of ex AN people a second chance at a career in Australia.
Take the above for what it is worth - the opinion of a person obviously coloured by personal experience. I am biased and make no apology for that.
I hope that everyone that wants a job in whichever airline that they seek it gets one - and I wish that we would not be collectively seeking to see the destruction of one airline or the other - live and let live!
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GWPSOR,. .AN and Qf have never done anything to me and I take it on reflection that the comment wasn't required. I'll edit the post. My irritation comes from the inaccurate nature of the items you addressed. I took it be an unnecessary attemp to slang off about VB. Your friend should have a better idea of his/her facts if they work for VB.
Steve, . .I never admitted I wasn't an Australian. Please quote the line where I did that. My passport says "Australian". I also wouldn't have said I gave you a bollocking mate. You made an intentional comment and a fairly specific reference which was not general in nature but aimed specifically at an attribute that would almost certaintly have singled out a certain individual. You haven't shown any more restraint in defending yourself than I have.
Tempo, . .I would beg to differ that I ruin this site. I spend most of my posts defending against the garbage so many others post about VB. I think there are a lot of posts far more derogatory than mine that seek to achieve nothing other than to slander other people and other companies. I refuse to grow up..I'm having to much fun just like I am!
If I was a better person I would have said it like Laptop did. No comment on the PA's during the check either.
[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]</p>
Steve, . .I never admitted I wasn't an Australian. Please quote the line where I did that. My passport says "Australian". I also wouldn't have said I gave you a bollocking mate. You made an intentional comment and a fairly specific reference which was not general in nature but aimed specifically at an attribute that would almost certaintly have singled out a certain individual. You haven't shown any more restraint in defending yourself than I have.
Tempo, . .I would beg to differ that I ruin this site. I spend most of my posts defending against the garbage so many others post about VB. I think there are a lot of posts far more derogatory than mine that seek to achieve nothing other than to slander other people and other companies. I refuse to grow up..I'm having to much fun just like I am!
If I was a better person I would have said it like Laptop did. No comment on the PA's during the check either.
[ 31 January 2002: Message edited by: sprucegoose ]</p>
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Spruce would you mind tellin me what your average take-home pay p.m. is after tax? Just curious thats all. Heard its only about $6,500-7,000 but the source was questionable. Thanks.
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Thats pretty close Slasher. I don't get quite as many overnights as most drivers because of other comitments I have at VB. I probably average at the moment only 4 overnights a month. Typical would be around 9 for a full roster of flying. The figures you have are very close to average I'd say.
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A G/A company with 737's. Flight Ops Mgmt team well passed their use by date, low cost carrier is low quality operation. As a comparison to major air operators world wide VB are not in the vicinity of the playing field. Most L.H.S drivers ex 89,s, loosers unable to get employment elsewhere, ansett old boys club with little knowledge of modern cockpit envor's or procedures.If this is the buss operation of oz, god help the industry and pax.....
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Bonecollector, I really take exception to the comment that most VB LHS drivers are ex'89ers that are unable to gain employment elsewhere. My husband was employed elsewhere after 89 and took the chance after being out of Australia for 12 years to come home to his family. He loves his job at VB and is an excellent operator as told to me personally by his F.O's and cabin crew. Am I bias, probably. The other LHS drivers that I do know personally working for VB are true gentlemen also. . .The other fact I do know is that my husband comes home happy with his job and the company and is enjoying his flying, and as he comes off his brand new aircraft he is smiling as are the rest of the crew. Heads are held high and there doesn't seem to be the grumbles that he has experienced in other airlines. Of course there are things that could be improved as with all companies but they are minor and will be as time goes on I'm sure. . .Don't know where you are from or what your experience is but seems there is just a little bit of the old green eyed monster there. Hope your day improved from the time you posted your reply.
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Bonecollector,
By what standard do you measure low quality?
If I were to take your measure and use it in reverse, other carriers would be considered HIGH quality. A difficult to sustain arguement.
ALL carriers have problems and ALL carriers have good points. Don't generalise.
As for the flight ops management team, your comment is a bit rich, there are 4 and a half management pilots versus AN's 15. Yet the work gets done to a excellent standard and with the minimum of fuss.
There is no need to mow lawns either!
Once again I wish that we could all be thankful for what we have got and try not to bag everyone else....
Most of the people I fly with are VERY happy as am I.
You might not agree with the way that they do things, but that is your perogative, as long as the aeroplanes go from A to B safely, the guests are happy and we make money that is all we can ask.
By what standard do you measure low quality?
If I were to take your measure and use it in reverse, other carriers would be considered HIGH quality. A difficult to sustain arguement.
ALL carriers have problems and ALL carriers have good points. Don't generalise.
As for the flight ops management team, your comment is a bit rich, there are 4 and a half management pilots versus AN's 15. Yet the work gets done to a excellent standard and with the minimum of fuss.
There is no need to mow lawns either!
Once again I wish that we could all be thankful for what we have got and try not to bag everyone else....
Most of the people I fly with are VERY happy as am I.
You might not agree with the way that they do things, but that is your perogative, as long as the aeroplanes go from A to B safely, the guests are happy and we make money that is all we can ask.