Virgin Blue are cry babies!
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Virgin Blue are cry babies!
Why is it that Godfrey and Huttner are always whinning to the press about how hard done by they are.
Latest Huttner saying, that its not fair that QF can lease overseas aircraft, and we can't.
Previous:
We didn't get a chance to look at AN books.
We weren't offered the same deal as QF.
There were others this week I just can't remember what, but I know they were whinning about something again!
Get over it! Lease some AN aircraft and employ some crews like you said you would, and start flying more of the public around.
The public good will from this alone would have to be worth the extra costs. Then start telling the press how you are helping out AN in this difficult time and moving more people around Aus. You can also remind them that you are using Aussie crews and aeroplanes while qantas is using overseas contractors.
Latest Huttner saying, that its not fair that QF can lease overseas aircraft, and we can't.
Previous:
We didn't get a chance to look at AN books.
We weren't offered the same deal as QF.
There were others this week I just can't remember what, but I know they were whinning about something again!
Get over it! Lease some AN aircraft and employ some crews like you said you would, and start flying more of the public around.
The public good will from this alone would have to be worth the extra costs. Then start telling the press how you are helping out AN in this difficult time and moving more people around Aus. You can also remind them that you are using Aussie crews and aeroplanes while qantas is using overseas contractors.
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I don't think it really matters where qantas flys there contracted labour.
The point I am trying to make is it is about time Virgin put thier money where thier mouth is, and do something, rather than sit thier like school kids saying "but sir that's not fair".
QF will walk all over them.
Virgin should lease some AN 737's and start competing tomorrow!
Otherwise they'll be whinning that AN2 as it gets more operational was given government assistance to fly in competition with them. And lets face it there is really only room for two.
So which two.
The point I am trying to make is it is about time Virgin put thier money where thier mouth is, and do something, rather than sit thier like school kids saying "but sir that's not fair".
QF will walk all over them.
Virgin should lease some AN 737's and start competing tomorrow!
Otherwise they'll be whinning that AN2 as it gets more operational was given government assistance to fly in competition with them. And lets face it there is really only room for two.
So which two.
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King George,
How do you lease AN 737's when the administrator - who controls them - won't lease 'em to you??
Any ideas what the maintenance state of those aircraft is anyway??
How do you lease AN 737's when the administrator - who controls them - won't lease 'em to you??
Any ideas what the maintenance state of those aircraft is anyway??
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K G V
Do not agree with you often.
But I do suggest that Virgin may be approaching their " use by date" quite rapidly.
Aussies do not like whingers!
edit spelling only! shocker
They do not like Poms!
And they do like the underdog!
Watch the FWA thread!
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Qduck ]
Do not agree with you often.
But I do suggest that Virgin may be approaching their " use by date" quite rapidly.
Aussies do not like whingers!
edit spelling only! shocker
They do not like Poms!
And they do like the underdog!
Watch the FWA thread!
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: Qduck ]
Evertonian
I have to agree. If this is how DickB. got ahead in the UK, no wonder BA hate him. In fairness though, it has been reported that DJ were not invited to look at the AN books , nor were they included in lease negotiations (only from what I've seen on the idiot box)
WRT QF using leased aircraft O/S, it frees up QF aircraft for Domestic ops....
WRT QF using leased aircraft O/S, it frees up QF aircraft for Domestic ops....
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Your highness
before I pack my bag and go overseas,please clarify where I will not be welcome.1989 I was sweating my way through year 12 Physics at boarding school, hoping one day to be involved in this noble profession.
before I pack my bag and go overseas,please clarify where I will not be welcome.1989 I was sweating my way through year 12 Physics at boarding school, hoping one day to be involved in this noble profession.
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I agree about the whinging part; we are starting to look like that's what we do best.
But, I also think we have to be VERY careful about a massive expansion right now. There is only so much that we can handle right now, with the training of crews, and NG engineers. We're looking at an additional two Classics and one NG before the end of the year, on top of the three NG's previously announced (-700 this month, -800 Nov. and -700 Dec.) and just with those 6 we'll be struggling to get them flown, so I really do think that they have thought about their predicament and that's all they can handle. For now, that is. But there WILL be steady expansion over the next couple of years and we may have only 10% of the market by the end of 2001, but by the end of 2002 it will be 15%, and 2003 it will be 20% and so forth. Steady as she goes, I say.
By the way, expect an announcement very soon about Wet Leased aircraft; I suspect they really are quite pleased about the QF/AC leases as it has now set the precedent and given us the opportunity to get more bums in seats.
PS Yesterday we had 97% load factors accross the board (if you take out that silly political service to Mt Isa) Not bad for a start up in only its 14th month of operation.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: AlbertRoss ]
But, I also think we have to be VERY careful about a massive expansion right now. There is only so much that we can handle right now, with the training of crews, and NG engineers. We're looking at an additional two Classics and one NG before the end of the year, on top of the three NG's previously announced (-700 this month, -800 Nov. and -700 Dec.) and just with those 6 we'll be struggling to get them flown, so I really do think that they have thought about their predicament and that's all they can handle. For now, that is. But there WILL be steady expansion over the next couple of years and we may have only 10% of the market by the end of 2001, but by the end of 2002 it will be 15%, and 2003 it will be 20% and so forth. Steady as she goes, I say.
By the way, expect an announcement very soon about Wet Leased aircraft; I suspect they really are quite pleased about the QF/AC leases as it has now set the precedent and given us the opportunity to get more bums in seats.
PS Yesterday we had 97% load factors accross the board (if you take out that silly political service to Mt Isa) Not bad for a start up in only its 14th month of operation.
[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: AlbertRoss ]
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In regards to the Pilot buy out......I dont see it happening as there is a big split amongst the boys there. The 89 boys realise they cant work anywhere else and are runing into a corner and the other non s**bs are getting on with finding a new job. This one will die very soon!!
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King George V,
you sound terribly bitter & disenchanted for such youth.The latter being on your side is fortunate as you can leave this industry ruined by 'the 300' and start again.I know 6 AN F/o`s in the last 4 weeks who have successfully gained employment abroad.Stay positive and I imagine in a period of self-interest and expediance amongst some pilots/pilots` groups,you will get from aviation what you put in.Judge yourself as there is much fog when you judge others.
Albert Ross-cherrypicker!!!!!!!!!Give back to Oz some of what you have taken.You wanted to be the no`2 airline,start serving our country communities(they deserve and have had world class jet services for decades).It is more than a political stunt,you will lose credibility if you don`t.
you sound terribly bitter & disenchanted for such youth.The latter being on your side is fortunate as you can leave this industry ruined by 'the 300' and start again.I know 6 AN F/o`s in the last 4 weeks who have successfully gained employment abroad.Stay positive and I imagine in a period of self-interest and expediance amongst some pilots/pilots` groups,you will get from aviation what you put in.Judge yourself as there is much fog when you judge others.
Albert Ross-cherrypicker!!!!!!!!!Give back to Oz some of what you have taken.You wanted to be the no`2 airline,start serving our country communities(they deserve and have had world class jet services for decades).It is more than a political stunt,you will lose credibility if you don`t.
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Buster Hyman,
Yes the thought of pilots running an airline is terrifying. Unfortunately most pilots repeatedly demonstrate poor financial acumen.
And.......
ess jay,
The poor financial skills are spread evenly throughout the pilot population regardless of whether pre '89 or after. Generally most are overcommitted anyway so I doubt that there would be much in kitty. Of course some would say what a wonderful time to borrow with very low interest rates...........MORE??
Don't think so.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
Yes the thought of pilots running an airline is terrifying. Unfortunately most pilots repeatedly demonstrate poor financial acumen.
And.......
ess jay,
The poor financial skills are spread evenly throughout the pilot population regardless of whether pre '89 or after. Generally most are overcommitted anyway so I doubt that there would be much in kitty. Of course some would say what a wonderful time to borrow with very low interest rates...........MORE??
Don't think so.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Flat Side Up ]
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To all the non-scab ex-ansett pilots - get writing.
And to my fellow '89ers, I say lay off the guys who were working there, and are not scabs.
They've done nothing wrong. Guilt by association is not what we're about. If my airline employed co-pilots, I'd be happy to have them here, and would recommend them to the management.
I can understand the bitterness of the innocent F/o's who see us as being happy at their misfortune.
I for one, disagree strongly with the '89 ers who slag them just for having worked for AN. And I think the vast majority of my colleagues agree.
And to my fellow '89ers, I say lay off the guys who were working there, and are not scabs.
They've done nothing wrong. Guilt by association is not what we're about. If my airline employed co-pilots, I'd be happy to have them here, and would recommend them to the management.
I can understand the bitterness of the innocent F/o's who see us as being happy at their misfortune.
I for one, disagree strongly with the '89 ers who slag them just for having worked for AN. And I think the vast majority of my colleagues agree.
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Kaptin M et al,
Had to respond. I know this is probably 'sacrilegious', but I am a concerned AN pilot's wife. My husband left to pick up our children and left the computer on PPrune. I decided to sit down with a drink and have a look. I was surprised and sad to see the bitterness and anger on some of the threads. My husband has worked for Ansett for 9 years. We have a mortgage, two children and have a baby due in 10 weeks. When I read some of the posts saying ex-Ansett pilots will not get a job anywhere overseas, it filled me with dread. I was with my husband while he was flying GA aircraft after '89'. Why should he and our children be penalised for something we were not a part of? If he does not get a job with QF or VB, then going O/S is our next option. It fills me with dread to think that we might be ostracised by ex-pat families just because he is ex-An.
Thank-you 'Betelgeuse' for your last post, I had considered, from reading a few of your previous posts, that you were one of the ones I was concerned about. I am glad you clarified your position.
I know you all look at things from the pilot's point of view, but do consider the families of a lot of these men. For the last 2 weeks I have been job searching, I haven't got much hope as who wants to employ a 7 month pregnant woman?
For men who are supposed to stay calm in times of crisis, I worry sometimes about the pilot fraternity. The recent suicide was not the first that has occurred. I know of two others that have occurred in the past two years. A lot of my husband's collegues are ringing him very stressed, many like us with mortgages and small children who were not involved in 89. My husband has had chest pains and shortness of breath due to stress. I fear there may be more casualties before this is over.
I'm sorry if I have over stepped the mark by replying or my reply is considered out of place or not relevant. But do remember it is not just the pilot who ends up O/S, it is also his partner and his children. I hate to think we would not be welcomed by fellow Australians who could make the transition of moving to another country a lot easier.
Regards Concerned Wife
Had to respond. I know this is probably 'sacrilegious', but I am a concerned AN pilot's wife. My husband left to pick up our children and left the computer on PPrune. I decided to sit down with a drink and have a look. I was surprised and sad to see the bitterness and anger on some of the threads. My husband has worked for Ansett for 9 years. We have a mortgage, two children and have a baby due in 10 weeks. When I read some of the posts saying ex-Ansett pilots will not get a job anywhere overseas, it filled me with dread. I was with my husband while he was flying GA aircraft after '89'. Why should he and our children be penalised for something we were not a part of? If he does not get a job with QF or VB, then going O/S is our next option. It fills me with dread to think that we might be ostracised by ex-pat families just because he is ex-An.
Thank-you 'Betelgeuse' for your last post, I had considered, from reading a few of your previous posts, that you were one of the ones I was concerned about. I am glad you clarified your position.
I know you all look at things from the pilot's point of view, but do consider the families of a lot of these men. For the last 2 weeks I have been job searching, I haven't got much hope as who wants to employ a 7 month pregnant woman?
For men who are supposed to stay calm in times of crisis, I worry sometimes about the pilot fraternity. The recent suicide was not the first that has occurred. I know of two others that have occurred in the past two years. A lot of my husband's collegues are ringing him very stressed, many like us with mortgages and small children who were not involved in 89. My husband has had chest pains and shortness of breath due to stress. I fear there may be more casualties before this is over.
I'm sorry if I have over stepped the mark by replying or my reply is considered out of place or not relevant. But do remember it is not just the pilot who ends up O/S, it is also his partner and his children. I hate to think we would not be welcomed by fellow Australians who could make the transition of moving to another country a lot easier.
Regards Concerned Wife
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stillanfo,
Betelgeuse has spoken what the majority of 89ers feel. We bare NO malice to any AN pilot who is not on the "list". For the ones on the list, well that's a different story. Your husband will have no problems with us if he goes O/S unless he is a brainwashed apologist for scabs.
Your post reminded me of how my wife felt in 89 but we survived and eventually prospered. I'm sure you and your husband will too.
Betelgeuse has spoken what the majority of 89ers feel. We bare NO malice to any AN pilot who is not on the "list". For the ones on the list, well that's a different story. Your husband will have no problems with us if he goes O/S unless he is a brainwashed apologist for scabs.
Your post reminded me of how my wife felt in 89 but we survived and eventually prospered. I'm sure you and your husband will too.
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Mrs Concerned
Reading your post brought back a lot of memories for me. It was a harrowing time when we went O/S back you know when. My 2 children were very young, and we'd never before even visited the place where I got a job as an F/O.
But at that time, there was a huge amount of camaraderie in our group, and I know you will have the same support wherever you go, from other ex-AN people, and from the existing expat community. And don't forget - pilots are not the only expats in the world.
I too had a pilot friend who took his own life, and left a young child and wife behind. This episode has brought back a lot of sad memories for many of us too.
I think a lot of what you perceive as anti-AN is actually anti-scab - a quite different subject.
It may not be any comfort for you at the moment, but your current predicament may give you an insight into why we feel so strongly about our former friends.
Good luck if you do venture O/S - it is not easy, but it can be quite rewarding in ways you never expected. I have made so many friends from so many countries, and it's an experience most Australians will never have the opportunity to experience. It does give you a completely different perspective on the world.
Reading your post brought back a lot of memories for me. It was a harrowing time when we went O/S back you know when. My 2 children were very young, and we'd never before even visited the place where I got a job as an F/O.
But at that time, there was a huge amount of camaraderie in our group, and I know you will have the same support wherever you go, from other ex-AN people, and from the existing expat community. And don't forget - pilots are not the only expats in the world.
I too had a pilot friend who took his own life, and left a young child and wife behind. This episode has brought back a lot of sad memories for many of us too.
I think a lot of what you perceive as anti-AN is actually anti-scab - a quite different subject.
It may not be any comfort for you at the moment, but your current predicament may give you an insight into why we feel so strongly about our former friends.
Good luck if you do venture O/S - it is not easy, but it can be quite rewarding in ways you never expected. I have made so many friends from so many countries, and it's an experience most Australians will never have the opportunity to experience. It does give you a completely different perspective on the world.
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In appreciation of your compassion gentleman.
Mrs Concerned,no mark overstepped,humbled to see there is a lot more than just a blimp in a career and having a suspicion as to who your husband is,it will only be interim!!!!
Mrs Concerned,no mark overstepped,humbled to see there is a lot more than just a blimp in a career and having a suspicion as to who your husband is,it will only be interim!!!!