Bye Bye XP?

[mad_jock]

Oh and thanks very much for the oolite game suggestion.


Thanks to you it has now given the next generation of kids the BBC elite experence. Think that's over 10 machines it's now going strong on. Youngest player 10 oldest 75.

[BEagle]

Good old BBC Master allowed me to create all the AAR rendezvous data for the RAF (and NATO) 23 years ago, having taught myself how to convert trigonometry into BBC Basic. I still have the 'Parrot double sided double density soft sector 96 T.P.I. unformatted' 5" floppy disk, but nothing on which to run it!

Of course an ever-generous MoD paid me the grand sum of £0.00 for my work - which is still in use today!

[Guest 112233]

I'm quite enjoying this....

Enthroned in my rightfull position in the middle of the circle of the 9th level of Hades (i.e a vista user) the references by parties anon, to "Dibley" and "Perdition" mean that the thread is becominng a bit of a Divine Comedy.

Keef: This is what 12-15 Years of IT Support does to you. Hence my ensconsement.

Mixture: Keef has through his work, a perspective that corporate IT Peop's like I became, do not have. The Silver Surfer's unfortunately are often dealing with a technology that is totally alien to their perspectives and previous experence.

To all: I always thought Perdition referred to purgatory and not hell its self.

Mint: Is the way ahead or we are all on "The Road to Perdition"
CAT III

[OFSO]

in the middle of the circle of the 9th level of Hades

Ah yes, with the Sowers of Discord.

"Who though, with words unshackled from the rhymes
Could yet tell full the tale of wounds and blood*
Now shown me, let him try ten thousand times ?**
Truly all tongues would fail, for neither could
The mind avail, nor any speech be found
For things not named nor understood".***

* "Wounds and blood" sustained in trying to get Vista to run at a reasonable speed on an early HP laptop.

** An early reference to dear Mixture who has ten thousand times warned us of the dangers of staying with XP.

*** Possibly Ubuntu or Mint

[Guest 112233]

Nice one OFSO. Parking the tail has always been....

A Problem - I had to get of a Bus once. People were complaining about the smell of sulfur. Try making Vista work on a 7 yr old Vostro Lap top.

CAT III

[MidlandDeltic]

Strangely enough, Windows sometimes has the opposite problem, new OS doesn't have drivers for older hardware because the manufacturer didn't bother to write one.

Or, in the case of Epson, write one but don't release it to individual markets! I have an Epson printer/scanner, about four years old so in no way end of life, which has a US equivalent. Epson HAVE released Win 8 drivers etc for the US version, but NOT the EU version, suggesting instead I buy a new device (adding further cost to this whole Win 8 upgrade rip-off). Fortunately, I looked on the MS forums, which suggested running the original install disks in compatibility mode. This solved the issue - they ran bizarrely as Vista SP2 - but the drivers and software all work.

Epson support was quite frankly, cr@p. Another example of the IT industry trying to rip off the consumer.

[mixture]

Epson support was quite frankly, cr@p.

Yup, I gave the team at Espon HQ a thorough going over after I was told I had to wait 30 days for some bod in Japan to manually authorise access to software for a newly purchased scanner.

Software obtained, the scanner works pretty well though.

Another example of the IT industry trying to rip off the consumer.

There are two sides to every story. The Joe Bloggs the Consumer doesn't help things by encouraging the IT industry in the "race to the bottom", the consumer only ever wants the price point to go in one direction.

That's why Apple maintain their high quality, and everyone else produces rubbish in their standard ranges (go up the price points, and of course you can find quality in the PC arena too).... most of the stuff you find in the shops or airport duty free is not worth touching with a bargepole.

Microsoft are NOT ripping off the consumer by making XP obsolete though ! They've given you more than enough notice .... they've brought out three operating systems in the intervening period.... they can't support everything for ever.

Drat. Just realised I posted in this idiotic thread again. Quiet Sunday I guess. Definitely the last time ever, I'm not coming back here.

[mad_jock]

they've brought out three operating systems in the intervening period

But unfortunately the consumer considers them utter crap from the user perspective.

Maybe if they brought out a win 8.xp with the same front end they might get some movement.

Oh and a method of upgrading without loosing all the already installed applications.

[Andy_P]

That's why Apple maintain their high quality, and everyone else produces rubbish in their standard ranges

So today I am using a macbook air to test some software I am in an airconditioned office. In fact, I am using that MBA to type this post. When it gets a bit hot, the kernel starts taking back CPU cycles in order to cool it down. As a result, any application you are using starts running like a dog. This is a common complain from the MBA users in the current org I am working with. Easy fix is to stop the kernel taking back CPU time, but surely that has to be detrimental to the reliability of the machine or why would Apple do it? The cooling system design in the machine is clearly flawed.

Dont be fooled. Not everything apple makes is of high quality. Much of their stuff has design flaws, like every other product out there.

[mad_jock]

Andy its design compromise which every engineering design has to do.

If you want decent cooling you go twin fan huge ducted heat sinks. This doesn't work well with the style department.

But I would agree about the quality side of things. There are some things that are very well made but others are lacking.

But controlling heat by dropping the performance is perfectly acceptable. I no I wouldn't advise fiddling with as you can do an Acer and cook the innards resulting in a very short service life.

If you want a machine which runs cool what ever the load you have to go for something like a ASUS ROG with its twin fans. But you have to sacrifice portability, the thing is 5kg. And also the slim line style that apple users seem to want.

[mixture]

(I know I promised not to come back to this thread, but I'm not talking on the topic of XP here.... )

In fact, I am using that MBA to type this post. When it gets a bit hot, the kernel starts taking back CPU cycles in order to cool it down. As a result, any application you are using starts running like a dog.

As I've said before, you've got a very Apple bashing slant to your posts Andy.

I've no idea what you're doing to your poor MBA if "it gets a bit hot" just because you are posting on PPRuNe. Seems to me like you're looking for problems where none exist... aka spreading FUD.

I've extensively used and dealt with others who have used every laptop out of the sun. Apple laptops are consistently better than your average PC laptop, as I said earlier, if you go higher up the PC range, then of course the spread narrows and you get some decent products on the PC side... although I'd still have an Apple any day... in my experience they're far more reliable. I push my personal Apple devices very hard indeed and have had never had major issues at all.

[MidlandDeltic]

There are two sides to every story. The Joe Bloggs the Consumer doesn't help things by encouraging the IT industry in the "race to the bottom", the consumer only ever wants the price point to go in one direction.

Of course they do. That is what has happened to all products - as they develop, the price goes down. That applies to IT as much as air travel.

That's why Apple maintain their high quality, and everyone else produces rubbish in their standard ranges (go up the price points, and of course you can find quality in the PC arena too).... most of the stuff you find in the shops or airport duty free is not worth touching with a bargepole.

I know many iphone users who would disagree vehemently with that, from screen fragility to the inability to replace batteries without an expensive trip to the repair shop. On the desktop front, I remember my first encounter with a Mac, which was used to design printed leaflets, the IT bod having been advised by a smooth saleman that an Apple could not be beaten for DTP work. Despite having a trained, dedicated user this machine caused 3-4 times as many support issues as the PCs around it, and was ditched when the dedicated user moved on.

Microsoft are NOT ripping off the consumer by making XP obsolete though ! They've given you more than enough notice .... they've brought out three operating systems in the intervening period.... they can't support everything for ever.

Not directly maybe. But by not providing modest and second user machines with an upgrade path, and not allowing an install over the top of the existing (forcing a back-up and format - and we all know how M$ back up processes have been, er, less than stable in the past), they as part of the industry forcing users to replace perfectly servicable hardware. The ONLY beneficiaries are the profits at the IT firms - it is not good for end users (cost), economies (investment money diverted into otherwise unnescessary replacement of equipment) or indeed the environment. That is abuse of an effective monopoly. Yes, I know there is Apple, Linux etc, but for most home users these are neither user friendly (Linux), or appropriate (Apple - perceived issues over running "mainstream" programs designed for Windows).

Many of these machines are in use because their users are cash strapped - elderly, young, unemployed, charities etc - and upgrading is out of their financial reach. Having enticed people in to use the IT, is there not a responsibility to ensure that even these "low value" users still have access? I think there is, but of course there are those who think sectors of society who, for whatever reason, are not "viable economic units" should be left to rot.

Drat. Just realised I posted in this idiotic thread again. Quiet Sunday I guess. Definitely the last time ever, I'm not coming back here.

You will - it's the scab you love to pick at....

[Guest 112233]

MD

I can confirm from experience: of teaching people in the groups that you listed, that your points are fundamentally correct.

The Rev Keef accurately described the circumstances of some of his support community.

Don't bait Mixture; the avenging Angel of the IT Apocalypse, his perspective is technically valid and comes from experience and concomitant commercial responsibility and all that it entails (no pun intended). Remember he/she is taking the trouble to post useful info on PPRuNe.

M$ are exploiting their Monopoly as any rational commercial Company will do to placate/maintain their Shareholders.

They could have provided an easier/cheaper upgrade path for their XP users to Win 7 to maintain their XP user base.

Old Kit will run Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora very efficiently, but the rub comes with the peripherals and the user facing interfacing software design.

Printer Support for the uninitiated ? Wi-Fi Grrrrr. Plotters.... and installing re configuring software.

Untrained, poor (in all its forms), That's where XP Wins unfortunately.

To all the techies out there remember where you started from and you will begin to understand the scale of the problem - we are talking Millions of users world wide.

CAT III (Techie of sorts).

[mad_jock]

I was never as bad as the average user.

I think it was three days in my first job when I was promoted to network and hardware guru for SGI, Sun and PC hardware.

It all just seemed so bloody logical and easy to setup.

Now accounts and HR completely different story. I suspect to this day they still think that their files are completely secure on the network and only they have access to them.

If I had shares in MS just now I would be thinking about selling them I suspect there is going to be a major change in the market over this issue and its not going to be pleasant for them. And I don't think apple are going to reap the benefits either.

[OFSO]

Bounce Cycle: the time between Mixture announcing he will never never post on this thread again and his next and subsequent post on this thread.

[Andy_P]

As I've said before, you've got a very Apple bashing slant to your posts Andy.

I've no idea what you're doing to your poor MBA if "it gets a bit hot" just because you are posting on PPRuNe. Seems to me like you're looking for problems where none exist... aka spreading FUD.

I've extensively used and dealt with others who have used every laptop out of the sun. Apple laptops are consistently better than your average PC laptop, as I said earlier, if you go higher up the PC range, then of course the spread narrows and you get some decent products on the PC side... although I'd still have an Apple any day... in my experience they're far more reliable. I push my personal Apple devices very hard indeed and have had never had major issues at all.

See its not just apple bashing I do, its apple, microsoft, linux, IBM (among others) bashing I do. When I see favoritism, I like to point out the failures in your argument. Just remember, I dont deal with 10 or 20 of any device, I deal with thousands. I also write software on all the major OS's and some you would never had heard of.

BTW, the MBA getting hot thing, all I was doing was running 3 instances of chrome, with about 3 tabs open on each, low end stuff compared to most MBA users.

Now would you like me to tell you about Android on Samsung?

[exeng]

Don't bait Mixture Remember he/she is taking the trouble to post useful info on PPRuNe.

Whilst I do see some of the point you are trying to make I do have to say that poor old mixture seems to come across as a 'know it all grumpy' who sort of buys his own bait from the fishing shop. I'm sure he is a thoroughly decent chap/chapess, but when he types it doesn't seem to come across that way.

Anyway back on the thread. I've got an old XP laptop that has been used as a doorstop the last few years. I'm going to fire it up and leave it connected to the internet for a few weeks and see what happens. Nothing on the machine of any personal nature - I formatted it a few years ago, reloaded the OS and left it at that.

I'll let you know what happens.



Kind regards
Exeng

P.S. Is it possible that I will see a mushroom cloud of atomic proportions over the city of London from the leafy lanes of Surrey? Or will life go on as normal for most of us non IT people?

[Booglebox]

You may see a mushroom cloud from Mixture Towers when he has an aneuryism after reading that

[mad_jock]

Unless you go surfing its unlikely anything will happen.

What mixture and the other admins are concerned about is that the machine will sit there and turn into basically a tool for various types to do harm on there corporate networks.

There is a strong possibility that it will sit there and visually there will be nothing amiss. Just at certain points it might slow a bit as it launches a heap of crap onto the internet. 10-20 machines won't do much. But what the guys are worried about is when 6-7 figure numbers of machines get involved at a synchronised time point. The only way sometimes they can deal with it by pulling the plug to the outside world until it goes away. So what you might say but taking out say amazon for even 30mins is a huge lose of sales.

[Saab Dastard]

I'm going to fire it up and leave it connected to the internet for a few weeks and see what happens

If it is behind a firewall - even a NAT home router - then almost certainly nothing will happen, unless you are using it to at least surf the net in some way, as MJ says.

If you are directly connecting it with a public IP address, then it will be compromised, probably within hours.

SD