Airline Jobs in Canada
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Harmless
I'm not sure what part of my comment you decided was nasty, Canadian politeness will always be regarded as what makes us Canadian. That's also part of why our industry in Canada is a joke. That's not being nasty to you or anyone else. Just the reality that is Canadian aviation and if more Canadian pilots were looking after one another, we wouldn't have the industry we have today.
Any Canadian pilot working overseas doesn't need to ask via PPRuNe who in Canada is hiring DE 777 Captains. Unless he/she lives under a rock.
flydive1
Huh?
Working where?
Willie
I'm not sure what part of my comment you decided was nasty, Canadian politeness will always be regarded as what makes us Canadian. That's also part of why our industry in Canada is a joke. That's not being nasty to you or anyone else. Just the reality that is Canadian aviation and if more Canadian pilots were looking after one another, we wouldn't have the industry we have today.
Any Canadian pilot working overseas doesn't need to ask via PPRuNe who in Canada is hiring DE 777 Captains. Unless he/she lives under a rock.
flydive1
Huh?
Working where?
Willie
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WOW, you guys are the ridiculous ones
Pathetic responses from most.
Do you read your own posts Sloppy? You started the "attacks", come back with vacuous posts, and then get your feelings hurt.
Poor boy, I feel sorry for you.
Pathetic responses from most.
Do you read your own posts Sloppy? You started the "attacks", come back with vacuous posts, and then get your feelings hurt.
Poor boy, I feel sorry for you.
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Europe, Middle East, Asia, Rest of the world?
You know, outside Canada.
I'm quite sure there are more Canadian pilots working outside Canada than foreign pilots working in Canada.
Know a couple myself.
Keep reading a lot on how foreigners are coming to Canada stealing jobs and how they should be stopped.
But no talks about Canadians working elsewhere.
Do not know if protectionism and retaliation would work on Canada favour.
You know, outside Canada.
I'm quite sure there are more Canadian pilots working outside Canada than foreign pilots working in Canada.
Know a couple myself.
Keep reading a lot on how foreigners are coming to Canada stealing jobs and how they should be stopped.
But no talks about Canadians working elsewhere.
Do not know if protectionism and retaliation would work on Canada favour.
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After reading most of the posts I was trying to use arguments that fit the general tone of this thread. Apparently I still have not got there so will try another as the PERSONAL attacks continue from you.
Your a poo poo head.
Your a poo poo head.
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Ok two things.
First, it isn't your but you are or you're a poo poo head.
Second, as you are so fond of the play ground vernacular, sticks and stones!
Now be a good boy and go buy yourself an ice cream while the grown ups talk.
First, it isn't your but you are or you're a poo poo head.
Second, as you are so fond of the play ground vernacular, sticks and stones!
Now be a good boy and go buy yourself an ice cream while the grown ups talk.
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Good grief, I've been told who you actually are! No wonder your posts are such drivel. You of all people should know better.
but I'm not surprised.
but I'm not surprised.
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flydive1
Now I understand what you were trying to say.
When you understand the business to a somewhat higher degree you'll see how ridiculous your suggestion that Canadian pilots working overseas is somehow the same as foreigners working in Canada. It's not the foreigners fault for taking jobs in Canada at the moment, by the way. It's our government that's to blame for allowing it in the first place. What can I tell you about politicians you don't already know?
I won't waste time trying to explain it to you, but rest assured as long as countries other than Canada suffer in pilot supply, Canadians willing to work outside Canada will continue to do so and will likely be welcomed by their hosts. Been there, done that and Canadian pilots aren't going to be shipped home any time soon because of the protectionist attitudes of Canadian pilots who'd like to preserve something of a home industry.
To the contrary my friend, in Canada at the moment, we are not in short supply and as a consequence don't need to import talent. That's how simple both the situation and explanation is and I dare say you shouldn't need a simpler explanation than that.
Foreigners are most certainly welcome in Canada when the time comes. That time hasn't come yet, but then you should be bright enough to have figured all of this out.
Do try to keep up?
Willie
Now I understand what you were trying to say.
When you understand the business to a somewhat higher degree you'll see how ridiculous your suggestion that Canadian pilots working overseas is somehow the same as foreigners working in Canada. It's not the foreigners fault for taking jobs in Canada at the moment, by the way. It's our government that's to blame for allowing it in the first place. What can I tell you about politicians you don't already know?
I won't waste time trying to explain it to you, but rest assured as long as countries other than Canada suffer in pilot supply, Canadians willing to work outside Canada will continue to do so and will likely be welcomed by their hosts. Been there, done that and Canadian pilots aren't going to be shipped home any time soon because of the protectionist attitudes of Canadian pilots who'd like to preserve something of a home industry.
To the contrary my friend, in Canada at the moment, we are not in short supply and as a consequence don't need to import talent. That's how simple both the situation and explanation is and I dare say you shouldn't need a simpler explanation than that.
Foreigners are most certainly welcome in Canada when the time comes. That time hasn't come yet, but then you should be bright enough to have figured all of this out.
Do try to keep up?
Willie
Last edited by Willie Everlearn; 11th Feb 2014 at 09:29.
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Are you saying that there are not unemployed pilots outside Canada? That there is a short supply of pilots?
Just wander out of this forum to the international ones to see the real situation, pilots, experienced(equally quilified as the Canadians) and not are on over supply, plenty of pilots looking for a job, in Europe and ROW.
Just wander out of this forum to the international ones to see the real situation, pilots, experienced(equally quilified as the Canadians) and not are on over supply, plenty of pilots looking for a job, in Europe and ROW.
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FlyDive, Canadians working overseas are needed because there are no nationals qualified and experienced enough to do the job. The gov of China, UAE, Qatar and others don't bring all the expats while 100s of national CPL and ATPL holders are sitting at home. They are so short of pilots that they take kids from high school and send them to Canada, Aus, US or Euro for training all expenses paid for (actually, they are on payroll from day one). Then, they have priority for upgrade and promotions. And I am quite ok with that. I am training my replacement as I write this.
Any Canadian company doing that?
Any Canadian company doing that?
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I am glad you know who I am. I do not know, nor do I care who you are. I just know your a stinky bum who has anger issues. I know I have won this battle of wits but am bored, you can have the last word as that is what you seem to need, why else continue replying to my puerile posts?
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Flydive1
We in Canada enjoy an abundance of well qualified, experienced, and with a variety of type ratings, pilots who have in excess of several thousand quality hours who are more than employable by Canadian carriers. Some of our 'game playing' Canadian airline employers are using obscure laws, technicalities, stretching the interpretation of those laws, ignored by inept politicians in an effort to avoid paying for the training of many of those well qualified Canadian pilot applicants and, instead, allowing them to recruit foreign pilots who are taking the rightful place of a Canadian pilot who should have first right of refusal of those jobs.
Sadly, that isn't happening.
That's why we have a government and government departments to ensure our laws are enforced. This is NOT being done at present and as a Canadian, I can tell you it's simply wrong.
Unemployed foreign pilots outside of Canada need not look to our country for employment without the legal right to do so. Anymore than I shouldn't be allowed to take up employment in Europe without the legal right to do so. And I can tell you European airlines are short of pilots right now. The day our pilot supply is no longer what it is will be the day employment of non-Canadian pilots will acceptable through necessity. Not before.
Very simple concept to grasp, eh?
Willie
We in Canada enjoy an abundance of well qualified, experienced, and with a variety of type ratings, pilots who have in excess of several thousand quality hours who are more than employable by Canadian carriers. Some of our 'game playing' Canadian airline employers are using obscure laws, technicalities, stretching the interpretation of those laws, ignored by inept politicians in an effort to avoid paying for the training of many of those well qualified Canadian pilot applicants and, instead, allowing them to recruit foreign pilots who are taking the rightful place of a Canadian pilot who should have first right of refusal of those jobs.
Sadly, that isn't happening.
That's why we have a government and government departments to ensure our laws are enforced. This is NOT being done at present and as a Canadian, I can tell you it's simply wrong.
Unemployed foreign pilots outside of Canada need not look to our country for employment without the legal right to do so. Anymore than I shouldn't be allowed to take up employment in Europe without the legal right to do so. And I can tell you European airlines are short of pilots right now. The day our pilot supply is no longer what it is will be the day employment of non-Canadian pilots will acceptable through necessity. Not before.
Very simple concept to grasp, eh?
Willie
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Flydive1,
You are 100% correct: the rest of the world does face a pilot shortage. I would argue, slightly against Willie Everlearn, that so too does Canada. Our shortage is not a general shortage of pilots like many parts of the world, but is specific to the higher experience (+5,000 hrs) positions outside of airlines. We don't need pilots from outside Canada to fill the Boeings and Airbuses, we need experienced pilots to come fill positions flying medium turboprops - the sort of jobs that many Canadians cannot yet fill because of a lack of experience vs. insurance requirements or positions that some Canadians may not want to fill because of the allure of the airlines. I'll admit, sitting in Yellowknife or Iqaluit at this time of year turns many people away. But, that is where the shortage is; not in Toronto, Calgary, or Vancouver.
The issue is that there are certain airlines in Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver who feel that a Canadian ATPL holder is not qualified to operate those Boeings and/or Airbuses. Of course they are qualified, they just need the required type rating. But training is expensive, so in order to get around the need to train a local pilot for $40,000 this airline brings in a pilot from overseas, does the minimal training required (say $15,000), and tells tells the government that there is no one in Canada who is "qualified" to fill the position. Of course the government acquiesces because this is a company that pays taxes.
Imagine if a European airline turned around to their government, told that government that none of its citizens could be hired because they were not "qualified," then proceeded to hire a Canadian, American or any other non-citizen pilot. Imagine now the outrage that would occur when it turned out all that airline had to do was train its citizens. India, the Philippines, China, Africa: they all hire ex-pats to fly their aircraft...that is until they have enough home grown pilots to fill the ranks.
Like everyone is trying to say - we don't hold the pilots taking these jobs at fault. They are simply doing the same thing that thousands of Canadian pilots are doing: looking for work. The problem is that we have companies openly bending the rules to save a few bucks. What's worse is that these savings are not being passed onto the employees, but we will save that discussion for later.
Anyways, the hotel wants to give me free beer for the next hour because I'm staying with them during my company paid sim training. So I will do the good Canadian thing and do my part to rid the world of beer. Wish me luck.
You are 100% correct: the rest of the world does face a pilot shortage. I would argue, slightly against Willie Everlearn, that so too does Canada. Our shortage is not a general shortage of pilots like many parts of the world, but is specific to the higher experience (+5,000 hrs) positions outside of airlines. We don't need pilots from outside Canada to fill the Boeings and Airbuses, we need experienced pilots to come fill positions flying medium turboprops - the sort of jobs that many Canadians cannot yet fill because of a lack of experience vs. insurance requirements or positions that some Canadians may not want to fill because of the allure of the airlines. I'll admit, sitting in Yellowknife or Iqaluit at this time of year turns many people away. But, that is where the shortage is; not in Toronto, Calgary, or Vancouver.
The issue is that there are certain airlines in Toronto, Calgary, and Vancouver who feel that a Canadian ATPL holder is not qualified to operate those Boeings and/or Airbuses. Of course they are qualified, they just need the required type rating. But training is expensive, so in order to get around the need to train a local pilot for $40,000 this airline brings in a pilot from overseas, does the minimal training required (say $15,000), and tells tells the government that there is no one in Canada who is "qualified" to fill the position. Of course the government acquiesces because this is a company that pays taxes.
Imagine if a European airline turned around to their government, told that government that none of its citizens could be hired because they were not "qualified," then proceeded to hire a Canadian, American or any other non-citizen pilot. Imagine now the outrage that would occur when it turned out all that airline had to do was train its citizens. India, the Philippines, China, Africa: they all hire ex-pats to fly their aircraft...that is until they have enough home grown pilots to fill the ranks.
Like everyone is trying to say - we don't hold the pilots taking these jobs at fault. They are simply doing the same thing that thousands of Canadian pilots are doing: looking for work. The problem is that we have companies openly bending the rules to save a few bucks. What's worse is that these savings are not being passed onto the employees, but we will save that discussion for later.
Anyways, the hotel wants to give me free beer for the next hour because I'm staying with them during my company paid sim training. So I will do the good Canadian thing and do my part to rid the world of beer. Wish me luck.
