WestJet
Join Date: Jul 1999
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I don't know what you are talking about, and I dare say neither do you... Do you even know where the supposed aircraft was at FL430? Was it even in Canadian Airspace or a Canadian Aircraft?
I have it on good authority that no WestJet Aircraft have exceeded FL410. I doubt the incident you refer to ever occurred...
There have been references to poor lifestyle and quality of living in this thread. I have undertaken to rebut those accusations. After I have stated facts others have countered with supposition.
As someone more eloquent than I once said, "Common sense ain't that common..." Good luck to you...
I have it on good authority that no WestJet Aircraft have exceeded FL410. I doubt the incident you refer to ever occurred...
There have been references to poor lifestyle and quality of living in this thread. I have undertaken to rebut those accusations. After I have stated facts others have countered with supposition.
As someone more eloquent than I once said, "Common sense ain't that common..." Good luck to you...
Join Date: Feb 2004
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WJman...
Insert my foot in your backside you mean...where is the proof you state I should be looking for? Show me HOW WJ is pioneering this system. I agree that it's a very good approach and yes you are putting a good ole Canadian spin on it! But I challenge you to show us that WJ is a pioneer in this area. As a someone who looked long and hard at implementing it at an airline he once worked for, I know more about it than you might think...
Insert my foot in your backside you mean...where is the proof you state I should be looking for? Show me HOW WJ is pioneering this system. I agree that it's a very good approach and yes you are putting a good ole Canadian spin on it! But I challenge you to show us that WJ is a pioneer in this area. As a someone who looked long and hard at implementing it at an airline he once worked for, I know more about it than you might think...
Join Date: Apr 2004
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http://www.itp.net/business/features...l=itp_features
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...ws/11285p4.xml
Up to now, RNP has only been implemented where a particular airline, such as WestJet or Alaska, has driven the process and done the work itself or subcontracted to a third party, such as Naverus. However, in the USA, the FAA is starting to approve public approaches that can be used by all aircraft, beginning with an approach to Reagan Washington National Airport. Reagan is clearly not in a mountainous area, but the numerous restricted flying areas in the US capital, especially since 9/11, make it a complex approach.
One item found on a simple search.
WJman...
Insert my foot in your backside you mean.
Watch where you put that thing, I'm not your type of guy.
http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...ws/11285p4.xml
Up to now, RNP has only been implemented where a particular airline, such as WestJet or Alaska, has driven the process and done the work itself or subcontracted to a third party, such as Naverus. However, in the USA, the FAA is starting to approve public approaches that can be used by all aircraft, beginning with an approach to Reagan Washington National Airport. Reagan is clearly not in a mountainous area, but the numerous restricted flying areas in the US capital, especially since 9/11, make it a complex approach.
One item found on a simple search.
WJman...
Insert my foot in your backside you mean.
Watch where you put that thing, I'm not your type of guy.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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Show me HOW WJ is pioneering this system.
The newly-approved procedures provide WestJet with the highest level of navigational precision currently available. To date, no other airline has been given operational approval to fly RNP 0.10 procedures. The approval caps a year-long process of design, flight testing, and review by WestJet, Naverus and the Canadian regulator. "This is an exciting milestone for WestJet, and means great things for our guests," said Tim Morgan, WestJet Senior Vice President and Co-Chief Operating Officer. "Naverus is unlocking the advanced navigational systems in our 737-NG fleet with their expertise, and Transport Canada has responded with the right combination of scrutiny, knowledge and willingness to make advances that benefit Canada."
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Going back yo my earlier post, you cannot bring a frivolous or vexatious lawsuit without very serious cost consequences. So I suggest Air Canada has merit in it's claim as was stated in the Globe & Mail article. But who cares? I have flown WJ regularly as well as AC. If AC wins against WJ I'll still fly WJ when the price and schedule are right.
Last edited by rotornut; 14th Dec 2005 at 18:33.
Join Date: Jul 1999
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"What are your new 'minimums'?? as a result of this RNP .10 gimmickry?"
That compares to 347' for the VOR app in YQM and there is no published straight-in approach in YLW for 34.
After a year or so of data gathering for Transport Canada, we hope to lower the minimums for the RNP approaches we conduct. NavCanada is working with us as well, gathering data towards our goal.
Cheers.
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Hmmm...let's see sonny boy...I challenged a statement that WJ was a (to paraphrase) "pioneer" in the business of RNP and the like, nowhere did I ever slag the company! Or more simply put, it would seem that proof was asked for after you bragged that WJ was top of the heap! (We all know how WJ gathers it's info these days and how your CEO conducts his business, but that's not my concern.) You have some very excellent people in your flight operations and flight training departments, and the ones I know quite possibly would appreciate a "quieter" approach to thier successes. So I will ask politely (first) that you remove your own foot from whatever orifice you enjoy sticking it in and remember an old saying..."It's better to keep one's own mouth shut, and have people THINK you're stupid, than to open it and PROVE it"
Bye for now...junior
Bye for now...junior
Join Date: Aug 2003
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It does sound interesting to see this RNP technology reduce minimums on non precision approaches and possibly save some fuel on long procedures to the final approach. Places like Kelowna come to mind, and I guess Regan if WJ fly there. The only issue is that in all the high density airports with radar vectors to an ILS it won't really have any cost benefit. Places like YVR, YUL, YEG, YYC and YYZ to name a few. Think of the HUD's WJ paid for and tried to implement....where are those things? Having said that, the new tech does sound great and if it does save some $ then you can't argue with that.....especially as an Owner 
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I was told recently that the approach we have mapped out for Abbotsford (CYXX) that begins at the HE beacon would save us enough money in fuel and time over the course of one year's operation to pay for the whole RNP programme.
RNP is a big deal and it will save us money, getting people to where they want to go in all kinds of weather.
There is a procedure for CYYC and CYEG that involve overflying the airport saving time with no radar vectors. NavCanada likes this procedure as it puts us at a defined place at a defined speed consistently. Easily fitting traffic in and around us as we perform the profile. As for CYVR and CYYZ, they are "lost causes" as far as radar vectors and "controller input" on the approach IMHO...
RNP is a big deal and it will save us money, getting people to where they want to go in all kinds of weather.
There is a procedure for CYYC and CYEG that involve overflying the airport saving time with no radar vectors. NavCanada likes this procedure as it puts us at a defined place at a defined speed consistently. Easily fitting traffic in and around us as we perform the profile. As for CYVR and CYYZ, they are "lost causes" as far as radar vectors and "controller input" on the approach IMHO...
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WJ boy...
Guess I've been "told"! I should have remembered that jousting with a "westjetter" (whatever...) will never lead to anything but frustration...no way to win a koolaid drinking contest with a guy like you...too much practise! Have fun and remember that even though you work for wj...you're still in Canada and paying taxes on that profit sharing cheque (although I hear it's a little smaller these days)...Am I?
Bye Bye
Bye Bye
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Great sound advice filled with the same old jabs every one else uses when they can no longer come up with anything worth writing.
I suggest you worry about the size of your profit sharing and your own airlines success beofre deciding to try and tell me how mine is. I'm happy, we're doing great and I work at the best airline in Canada.
I suggest you worry about the size of your profit sharing and your own airlines success beofre deciding to try and tell me how mine is. I'm happy, we're doing great and I work at the best airline in Canada.
Gotta go...chilly ones by the pool and the BBQ will be ready soon...All the best to you and yours this season. Happy Holidays...
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Too Much Cool-Aid
Slapshot; far too much cool-aid for you. Same for WJman (nothing personal guys… I am sure that you guys would be good guys to go for a pint with) I don’t know what carrier that you worked for overseas but if it didn’t work out for you that is too bad. Working overseas can really open ones eyes to the rest of the world. I have only been overseas for a short period and I am already looking to get my first Porsche (could never dream of that in Canada… Even if I was working for Canada’s number one carrier (A/C if anybody is wondering)). Keep in mind that I was never really an a/c fan; Canadian was more my choosing… just realize who really is number one in Canada. I am not only talking passenger numbers, but also lifestyle and pay. To think that WJ can hold a candle to what A/C can offer us is silly. Absurd. I know that all (most?) people at westjet think that they are at the top of the heap, and that is the culture. That is ok... but one has to realize that while they may be number one in a few areas, they really are number two wanting to be number one.
Back to my original point. The industry in Canada has been headed for the toilet. Low cost airlines might be a good place to gain some time, but if you can some how avoid that pit, do so. A/C or overseas. Get yourself out there. For our sakes and for our future peers. Low cost is here to stay, but that does not have to mean low pay; if we play hard to get by not taking the easy route the ‘wj’s’ of the future will have to buck up to find people. We have put too much blood and sweat into this to be paid peanuts. For the responsibility and hard work we all need to be remunerated accordingly. We put in long days and our job is on the line up to 4 times a year when you consider rides and medicals alone. I have seen competent guys fail rides, and healthy guys fail medicals. NO guarantees. A colleague of mine who is close to retiring said that if you are able to get a seat at a legacy carrier, get it, then never let it go. That is what he has done, and he has done very well. There are a few people in Calgary who might consider WJ to be a legacy carrier, but others might not see it that way. Perhaps WJ will make it, I don’t know. But A/C is the proven and they are looking (last I heard, but I am out of the loop). Overseas for those that don’t get on is a great choice, maybe not for all though. Some can’t hack it and put the blame on ‘the high cost of living overseas’. What they forget is with this higher cost comes a larger disposable income and better lifestyle.
Oh, and one more thing. My facts are not what they seem to be; they are feelings. WJ might be able to provide a ‘decent’ living, and stock options might be working out for some; but there is nothing better than seeing my paycheck with no deductions. None. Two months holidays a year? To start? And making the equivalent of 160k CAD to start? Not bad…. I kinda like it. A Canadian outfit would have offer me much more than that for me to miss out on the experience.
Have a good day.
PS… If some of this post does not make ton’s of sense chalk it up to Gentleman Jack. He was serving a good bit of flavour tonight.
Back to my original point. The industry in Canada has been headed for the toilet. Low cost airlines might be a good place to gain some time, but if you can some how avoid that pit, do so. A/C or overseas. Get yourself out there. For our sakes and for our future peers. Low cost is here to stay, but that does not have to mean low pay; if we play hard to get by not taking the easy route the ‘wj’s’ of the future will have to buck up to find people. We have put too much blood and sweat into this to be paid peanuts. For the responsibility and hard work we all need to be remunerated accordingly. We put in long days and our job is on the line up to 4 times a year when you consider rides and medicals alone. I have seen competent guys fail rides, and healthy guys fail medicals. NO guarantees. A colleague of mine who is close to retiring said that if you are able to get a seat at a legacy carrier, get it, then never let it go. That is what he has done, and he has done very well. There are a few people in Calgary who might consider WJ to be a legacy carrier, but others might not see it that way. Perhaps WJ will make it, I don’t know. But A/C is the proven and they are looking (last I heard, but I am out of the loop). Overseas for those that don’t get on is a great choice, maybe not for all though. Some can’t hack it and put the blame on ‘the high cost of living overseas’. What they forget is with this higher cost comes a larger disposable income and better lifestyle.
Oh, and one more thing. My facts are not what they seem to be; they are feelings. WJ might be able to provide a ‘decent’ living, and stock options might be working out for some; but there is nothing better than seeing my paycheck with no deductions. None. Two months holidays a year? To start? And making the equivalent of 160k CAD to start? Not bad…. I kinda like it. A Canadian outfit would have offer me much more than that for me to miss out on the experience.
Have a good day.
PS… If some of this post does not make ton’s of sense chalk it up to Gentleman Jack. He was serving a good bit of flavour tonight.
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WestJet CEO Clive Beddoe said some staff betrayed the company.
Jason Kirby, Financial Post
Published: Saturday, December 17, 2005
VANCOUVER - Clive Beddoe, CEO of WestJet Airline Ltd., spoke out yesterday about the corporate espionage lawsuit filed against the airline by rival Air Canada, calling it "malicious," while at the same time indicating the actions of some WestJet employees were "inappropriate."
Air Canada filed documents last week as part of its $220-million lawsuit that contained e-mails sent to senior WestJet executives, including Mr. Beddoe. The lawsuit claims the e-mails, which discuss a "007 project," are part of an alleged effort by WestJet to steal Air Canada's confidential information.
Mr. Beddoe, in Vancouver as part of a charity event to deliver a planeload of toys to sick children at a local hospital, initially declined to comment on the revelation of the e-mails or the allegations.
"All I can say is judge us by the integrity of the organization that we are, and not by the malicious ways in which we've been depicted by our competitors," he said.
Mr. Beddoe said the lawsuit, which has not been proven in court, has not hurt WestJet's public image, judging by the company's strong performance.
But he did say some employees betrayed the company's trust by taking things "too far."
"We're a company that believes in trusting people and I would always rather trust people than not trust people," he said. "Sometimes when you trust people, you get burned, and sometimes people make mistakes. That's just life, but it's not our corporate style."
He acknowledged the company is paying for those mistakes.
"When the odd person does something that is inappropriate, we're going to get slapped for it," he said.
WestJet has argued it did not break any laws by gathering data on its rivals.
Mr. Beddoe arrived from WestJet's Calgary head office on one of the last remaining planes from the company's original fleet of aircraft. Westjet has retired virtually all of its 737-200 series jets to replace them with newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft.
Mr. Beddoe said WestJet plans to grow the airline at a rate of six or seven new planes a year.
It is a popular belief among some analysts that WestJet will have a hard time repeating its past growth rates because there is less room to grow in Canada.
But Mr. Beddoe said the airline sees opportunity in both domestic and cross-border routes.
"The other guys have 20-odd flights a day from Vancouver to Toronto and we've got four or five," he said. "There's plenty of opportunity to add additional flights as we get new aircraft."
He said the company has a list of cross-border destinations it intends to fly to, but would not provide details, citing competitive reasons.
Jason Kirby, Financial Post
Published: Saturday, December 17, 2005
VANCOUVER - Clive Beddoe, CEO of WestJet Airline Ltd., spoke out yesterday about the corporate espionage lawsuit filed against the airline by rival Air Canada, calling it "malicious," while at the same time indicating the actions of some WestJet employees were "inappropriate."
Air Canada filed documents last week as part of its $220-million lawsuit that contained e-mails sent to senior WestJet executives, including Mr. Beddoe. The lawsuit claims the e-mails, which discuss a "007 project," are part of an alleged effort by WestJet to steal Air Canada's confidential information.
Mr. Beddoe, in Vancouver as part of a charity event to deliver a planeload of toys to sick children at a local hospital, initially declined to comment on the revelation of the e-mails or the allegations.
"All I can say is judge us by the integrity of the organization that we are, and not by the malicious ways in which we've been depicted by our competitors," he said.
Mr. Beddoe said the lawsuit, which has not been proven in court, has not hurt WestJet's public image, judging by the company's strong performance.
But he did say some employees betrayed the company's trust by taking things "too far."
"We're a company that believes in trusting people and I would always rather trust people than not trust people," he said. "Sometimes when you trust people, you get burned, and sometimes people make mistakes. That's just life, but it's not our corporate style."
He acknowledged the company is paying for those mistakes.
"When the odd person does something that is inappropriate, we're going to get slapped for it," he said.
WestJet has argued it did not break any laws by gathering data on its rivals.
Mr. Beddoe arrived from WestJet's Calgary head office on one of the last remaining planes from the company's original fleet of aircraft. Westjet has retired virtually all of its 737-200 series jets to replace them with newer, more fuel-efficient aircraft.
Mr. Beddoe said WestJet plans to grow the airline at a rate of six or seven new planes a year.
It is a popular belief among some analysts that WestJet will have a hard time repeating its past growth rates because there is less room to grow in Canada.
But Mr. Beddoe said the airline sees opportunity in both domestic and cross-border routes.
"The other guys have 20-odd flights a day from Vancouver to Toronto and we've got four or five," he said. "There's plenty of opportunity to add additional flights as we get new aircraft."
He said the company has a list of cross-border destinations it intends to fly to, but would not provide details, citing competitive reasons.
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yoohoo
You make some good points but I think you are failing to recognise that there are different strokes for...
I did the overseas thing also with better T&C's than what you mentioned , but I chose to come back. Never thought that I would agree with that old saying that there's more to life than money! My overseas road trip was an eye opener too and I am grateful for the experience but living away from home grew tiresome for me.
The old koolaid comment. Sure , some WestJetter's can come off as somewhat annoying but I think we have a right to be pretty damn proud of our airline and what we have done over the last 10 years. Think about it. From 0 to 60 brand new 737NG's , brand new hangar and office's , ground equip. , etc and about 250M in the bank to boot. No one has ever challenged AC and been as successful at it as we have. No one. You are right , we are No2 and aspire to be No1. Nothing wrong with a dream and trying to attain it is there?
I'm not even going to go there re:low pay. Everyone at WJ knows what has happened in the past and are hopeful that it will continue in the future. Enjoy that Porsche. I have one and am considering another. They are a fine automobile. If you are in Europe make sure you go to Stuttgart. Well worth the trip.
You make some good points but I think you are failing to recognise that there are different strokes for...
I did the overseas thing also with better T&C's than what you mentioned , but I chose to come back. Never thought that I would agree with that old saying that there's more to life than money! My overseas road trip was an eye opener too and I am grateful for the experience but living away from home grew tiresome for me.
The old koolaid comment. Sure , some WestJetter's can come off as somewhat annoying but I think we have a right to be pretty damn proud of our airline and what we have done over the last 10 years. Think about it. From 0 to 60 brand new 737NG's , brand new hangar and office's , ground equip. , etc and about 250M in the bank to boot. No one has ever challenged AC and been as successful at it as we have. No one. You are right , we are No2 and aspire to be No1. Nothing wrong with a dream and trying to attain it is there?
I'm not even going to go there re:low pay. Everyone at WJ knows what has happened in the past and are hopeful that it will continue in the future. Enjoy that Porsche. I have one and am considering another. They are a fine automobile. If you are in Europe make sure you go to Stuttgart. Well worth the trip.