Wow it really sucks up here!
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Wow it really sucks up here!
Doesn't it suck to read about 18 yr olds sitting as F/O on a 747 with 26yr olds commanding. God Canada really sucks, you'll be lucky here if you can get off of the ramp at 26 and into an airplane. 
Im surprised theres no PPC required to work the ramp!
Im surprised theres no PPC required to work the ramp!
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What exactly are you refering to? I'll also ask you to watch the "Canada sucks" comment. It's a great country and Canada is around the corner.
I've also never seen or heard of an 18 year old 747 F/O.
I've also never seen or heard of an 18 year old 747 F/O.
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Who cares about his age....if he can do the job, then good on him...obviously he can so that's why he is where he is....as for Canada sucks...well that is your opinion, as a country I reckon it is the best......as far as commercial aviation goes, I might even agree with you...however there are operators out there looking for pilots right now as long as you are prepared to relocate. Keep an eye on Iceland.
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18 year olds in command of a 747? You won't see me in line to get on board. Personally I think that story is BS.
As far as those 26 year olds commanding 737s at Ryanair, well….I guess you get what you pay for. I wonder what kind of cut of your 2 dollar fare the pilot gets. Some paperboys collect more money from customers.
As far as those 26 year olds commanding 737s at Ryanair, well….I guess you get what you pay for. I wonder what kind of cut of your 2 dollar fare the pilot gets. Some paperboys collect more money from customers.
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STC, if you read the post its an 18 yr old F/O not captain. Im willing to relocate but every where demands you do a license conversion. Its like an ICAO license is worthless. I didn't mean Canada as a country sucks, but the aviation industry in Canada sucks, I don't even know why someone from another country would want to come here to fly, it would have to be really really bad in their home country.
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Ohhhhhh....an 18 year old F/O. That's different...NOT. Do you really think it should be commonplace to have an 18 year old in such a position of responsibility?
Those are the years where a pilot should be gaining experience that would develop his skills and judgement.
If I was informed (as a passenger) that the 747 that I was about to strap in to and launch across the ocean was jockied by an 18 year old (in any seat) I would step off.
You don't have to agree with me. Just wave to me as you fly over with a severely reduced level of safety.
Those are the years where a pilot should be gaining experience that would develop his skills and judgement.
If I was informed (as a passenger) that the 747 that I was about to strap in to and launch across the ocean was jockied by an 18 year old (in any seat) I would step off.
You don't have to agree with me. Just wave to me as you fly over with a severely reduced level of safety.
just Kidding.
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18 in right seat of a 747? If it is true, great for him but I have doubts. The only way really, to get into the right seat of that kind of equipment fresh out of school is you get hired into an airline with their own flight academy, which many airlines in Europe have(as you can see from my spelling and grammar, I did not even go to school, period!). But most of those places have a 18 year min age requirement to get in and the programs are 2 or 3 years long.
The only way you'd get into that position is if your daddy is a Sultan and bought you the plane (has happened!).
The only way you'd get into that position is if your daddy is a Sultan and bought you the plane (has happened!).
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From my vast research and having experienced the airline industry in 5 different countries, I would like to point out that "Glorified Donkey" has an EXTREMELY valid point. He might not have expressed it in the diplomatic way as most staunch
patriotic Canadians in this forum would have liked it, but he does make a VERY valid point. I believe it is valid points like his/hers, we should question rather than criticise and fire back with frivolous comments.
From my experience working with 7 different airlines and having spoken to hundreds of pilots, I do believe Canada has a bit of a problem for young people who would like to pursue a career in aviation. Now before you go and fire away angry replies (which
some of you already have done so) you have to firstly understand that Canada has an ailing Airline Industry. Our main Carrier AC alone has never made a profit, with the exception of the time they sold their aircraft and leased them for that fiscal year (talk about a loop hole in the books). Now because the airline has always been in the red, they have never had the opportunity to create a sponsored cadet program such as the ones they have in Europe, Asia, Africa and Australasia.
In Europe, a lot of airlines at one point or another have opened up a cadet program for anyone above the age of 18. They still do exist and open up the scheme when they feel a shortage of pilots will exist in the near future. These airlines have opened up such schemes because the cost of obtaining a commercial licence in Europe is quite
prohibitive. The cost of obtaining a JAA frozen ATPL in Canada (Moncton Flying College) is just over 100,000 Canadian Dollars (and this is a GREAT fee compared to what other European pilot colleges offer). But to obtain a Canadian CAA license is roughly 35,000 CDN. This cost is not as prohibitive and has created a larger pool of pilots than our aviation industry can take.
Now having said all this, Australasia, Africa, Middle East, Asia (not sure about South America) have had their main carriers create cadet sponsored programs. The cost of obtaining a commercial licence in a lot of these countries are not prohibitive and in some cases are cheaper than in Canada, yet their Airlines DO have these schemes, to help young people get a commercial licence and guide them to become pilots in their airlines. This is something I feel Canada is missing and airlines in Canada such as 'Air Canada' and 'West Jet' rely on the fact that people from the military and those who have had thousands of hours from other ways, to apply and become pilots for them. In some cases, you need internal referees to even be considered to apply. Personally I think this is preposterous and only encourages friends of people in the airline to apply, rather than open the jobs to the open market for people who could have better qualifications.
I do resent the comment that a lot of you have said regarding the fact that you would not feel safe in boarding an aeroplane if the pilot was 18 or really young. Mind you, I have never met a First Officer who is 18 years of age yet, but I have met pilots as young as 19 years of age and they come from the TOP airlines in Europe, Asia, Middle East and Australasia. These young pilots came from Cathay Pacific, Emirates Airlines, Qatar Airways, KLM, British Airways, Qantas and many more. All these airlines have an excellent safety records and not only are most of them making profits, but are world renowned for their impeccable service and diversity in hiring many different nationalities. Some of these top airlines have operated cadet schemes since the early seventies (if not earlier) and have maintained their impeccable safety record. STS, I do resent you comment regarding the Ryan air pilot who is 26 years of age and the fact that you were getting a young pilot for the service you paid for. I find that comment utterly disgusting. How dare you mock the qualifications of a FULLY QUALIFIED pilot who is trying to make his way to the top. I have PERSONALLY been on a British Airways 747 flight from London Heathrow to New York JFK and I spoke to the First Officer during his break. He was a 25 year old young respectable Englishman who came through the British Airways cadet scheme and has been flying since he was 18. British Airways is a fantastic airline with an EXCELLENT safety record and mind you, the first officer was younger than the Ryan Air pilot you were mocking. If any of you feel that an 18 year old First Officer is not good enough to pilot your plane, then I am afraid that you will have to settle for Air Canada for a LONG time. The lovely ailing airline all Canadians are proud off.
"Just wave to me as you fly over with a severely reduced level of safety"
STS, your comment is clearly unjustified and is not backed by any statistical means. You have made a rash comment without any backing. As an AME, I would have expected a more mature comment from yourself, let alone a comment from a person who is not an airline pilot.
I do like the fact that young people have the opportunity to become pilots in a major airline. It brings new ideas, new thoughts and do not require the large salaries that people with thousands of hours ask for. Young people also are easier to adapt to new techniques which airlines try to mould their pilots to be. Most cadet schemes are there to mould pilots from a young age and to bring them up to the airline standard they are training for. From a personal interview with a major European Airline, I was told that they preferred pilots who came from a non-military background. This was because they found that it was more difficult to mould military pilots to the way that this airline operated their aircraft and they found that the pilots were more aggressive with the planes. Experienced pilots are great for the airline industry, but this comes at a cost and airlines in Canada should wake up and realise that if they kept this notion of only hiring pilots with thousands of hours, then they are going to spend more money and more training at the end of the day. The rest of the world has tried and tested the cadet scheme and have hired young pilots and it works. This has been going on for decades, especially in Europe and it has worked wonderfully for them. Their safety records have been fantastic. It is a successful scheme. Most of these airlines today operate on profit and is something we envy here in Canada. I can honestly say that the rest of the world has taken a step ahead of us here in North America (especially Canada, with only one major airline) in hiring young pilots. I don't think a lot of you have thought about this issue before you wrote down your angry replies to "Glorified Donkey".
The ICAO issued license for Canadian pilots is a decent qualification, but is not up to the same high level of standards that are required from European airlines and the JAA (which the Middle East, Asia and Africa are moving towards). There are a number of topics in this forum alone which are discussing the conversion to JAA qualifications. The process is quite tedious and very expensive. On the other hand, Europeans that come to North America have it extremely easy. This is not to say that Canadian pilots should not fly or are not qualified, but it goes back to the same topic that "Glorified Donkey" brought up, regarding the lack of ability to fly worldwide with your Canadian license (if you have less than 'X' amount of Jet time).Canada does have a lot of flying. The fact that we live in the second largest country in the world almost always forces us to fly to places. Canada is rich in bush flying, float flying, private services, flying medical units etc... but Canada is NOT rich in the large commercial industry which "Glorified Donkey" has highlighted. Canada does not have the privilege which other countries have, where 747's and A340's constantly roam their skies from the many different airlines. Look at the UK. A country which alone fits roughly 4.5 times into Ontario, has a vast array of Commercial jet airlines which most operate on a profit. British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, EasyJet, Ryanair, British Midland etc.... So when "Glorified Donkey" made the comment that Canada sucks (which most of you took personally, because you were naive to think he referred to the country and not the aviation industry), I completely understood his perspective. I have spoken to a very large amount of Canadian pilots, ESPECIALLY working in Emirates Airlines and Gulf Air and they could not think of working in the Canadian market again. The market in Canada is very volatile. Just recently we had Jetsgo go under. Air Canada, which is our sole official carrier, has fired and laid off pilots, right, left and centre. Then they talk about pay cuts and they talk about pension funds and so on. I think we have to be humble about the fact that we do not have the best aviation industry. And unless you have tried something else and tested different airlines in other countries, then do not give your unwanted angry opinion to an aspiring person who thinks the Canadian market sucks. It does suck (commercially at least) and we have to accept it. Most of the Canadian pilots abroad were sceptical before flying to far off places in Asia to get jobs, but they eventually realised that there was something better out there. Sure they miss Canada, because it is their home, but when you get a 14 month annual salary and free accommodation and private schooling for your children in a tax free country, then I can definitely tell you that the aviation industry here DOES suck.
"Do you really think it should be commonplace to have an 18 year old in such a position of responsibility?"
STS, you seem to have a very narrow view of what can and cannot be done in the aviation industry. This also comes to me as a surprise from someone who claims to have been in the aviation industry since 1978. I am not sure if you are aware of this fact, but First Officers are usually with a Captain in the cockpit. Captains are highly experienced pilots and are there to help, guide and teach First Officers. Next time you fly on an airline which is not registered in North America, just ask for the First Officers age. I can guarantee you, that you will be in the departures lounge for a long time. At 18, you can vote, smoke, drink (almost everywhere around the world), drive a car, operate machinery and you are telling me that you do not find it common place to have an 18 year old operate a large aircraft. As for yourself, an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, I would assume you had to be an apprentice for a while and then worked along side experienced engineers in maintaining aircraft. I have seem fitters and AME who work on aircraft who are as young as 18 years of age. Surely you would agree then that they should be NOW WHERE NEAR an aircraft...!!! You also surely would agree that an AME's job in maintaining safety should be just as impeccable as a pilot and anyone else in the aviation industry. Then according to your philosophy, they should mature till the age of 40(or some ripe old age), then become AME's for a big airline, in the meantime they could gain experience by maintaining props and turbo shafts, because they are not AS important.
Now that I have finished my ranting, I am sure I am going to get some interesting feedback in this forum. “Glorified Donkey” don’t just sulk and think that we have it horrible here in Canada, if you really want a high paying job with a great and prosperous airline, then you will have to relocate (which you have expressed already). Write to these airlines and find out their entry criteria’s. Canadians are the largest single nationality to be hired as pilots on Emirates Airline. I think they will be willing to accept a Canadian ICAO licence. Always remember that the world is your oyster and there are lots of opportunities out there. Hope you the best of luck in finding a job out there and keep your chin up.
patriotic Canadians in this forum would have liked it, but he does make a VERY valid point. I believe it is valid points like his/hers, we should question rather than criticise and fire back with frivolous comments.
From my experience working with 7 different airlines and having spoken to hundreds of pilots, I do believe Canada has a bit of a problem for young people who would like to pursue a career in aviation. Now before you go and fire away angry replies (which
some of you already have done so) you have to firstly understand that Canada has an ailing Airline Industry. Our main Carrier AC alone has never made a profit, with the exception of the time they sold their aircraft and leased them for that fiscal year (talk about a loop hole in the books). Now because the airline has always been in the red, they have never had the opportunity to create a sponsored cadet program such as the ones they have in Europe, Asia, Africa and Australasia.
In Europe, a lot of airlines at one point or another have opened up a cadet program for anyone above the age of 18. They still do exist and open up the scheme when they feel a shortage of pilots will exist in the near future. These airlines have opened up such schemes because the cost of obtaining a commercial licence in Europe is quite
prohibitive. The cost of obtaining a JAA frozen ATPL in Canada (Moncton Flying College) is just over 100,000 Canadian Dollars (and this is a GREAT fee compared to what other European pilot colleges offer). But to obtain a Canadian CAA license is roughly 35,000 CDN. This cost is not as prohibitive and has created a larger pool of pilots than our aviation industry can take.
Now having said all this, Australasia, Africa, Middle East, Asia (not sure about South America) have had their main carriers create cadet sponsored programs. The cost of obtaining a commercial licence in a lot of these countries are not prohibitive and in some cases are cheaper than in Canada, yet their Airlines DO have these schemes, to help young people get a commercial licence and guide them to become pilots in their airlines. This is something I feel Canada is missing and airlines in Canada such as 'Air Canada' and 'West Jet' rely on the fact that people from the military and those who have had thousands of hours from other ways, to apply and become pilots for them. In some cases, you need internal referees to even be considered to apply. Personally I think this is preposterous and only encourages friends of people in the airline to apply, rather than open the jobs to the open market for people who could have better qualifications.
I do resent the comment that a lot of you have said regarding the fact that you would not feel safe in boarding an aeroplane if the pilot was 18 or really young. Mind you, I have never met a First Officer who is 18 years of age yet, but I have met pilots as young as 19 years of age and they come from the TOP airlines in Europe, Asia, Middle East and Australasia. These young pilots came from Cathay Pacific, Emirates Airlines, Qatar Airways, KLM, British Airways, Qantas and many more. All these airlines have an excellent safety records and not only are most of them making profits, but are world renowned for their impeccable service and diversity in hiring many different nationalities. Some of these top airlines have operated cadet schemes since the early seventies (if not earlier) and have maintained their impeccable safety record. STS, I do resent you comment regarding the Ryan air pilot who is 26 years of age and the fact that you were getting a young pilot for the service you paid for. I find that comment utterly disgusting. How dare you mock the qualifications of a FULLY QUALIFIED pilot who is trying to make his way to the top. I have PERSONALLY been on a British Airways 747 flight from London Heathrow to New York JFK and I spoke to the First Officer during his break. He was a 25 year old young respectable Englishman who came through the British Airways cadet scheme and has been flying since he was 18. British Airways is a fantastic airline with an EXCELLENT safety record and mind you, the first officer was younger than the Ryan Air pilot you were mocking. If any of you feel that an 18 year old First Officer is not good enough to pilot your plane, then I am afraid that you will have to settle for Air Canada for a LONG time. The lovely ailing airline all Canadians are proud off.
"Just wave to me as you fly over with a severely reduced level of safety"
STS, your comment is clearly unjustified and is not backed by any statistical means. You have made a rash comment without any backing. As an AME, I would have expected a more mature comment from yourself, let alone a comment from a person who is not an airline pilot.
I do like the fact that young people have the opportunity to become pilots in a major airline. It brings new ideas, new thoughts and do not require the large salaries that people with thousands of hours ask for. Young people also are easier to adapt to new techniques which airlines try to mould their pilots to be. Most cadet schemes are there to mould pilots from a young age and to bring them up to the airline standard they are training for. From a personal interview with a major European Airline, I was told that they preferred pilots who came from a non-military background. This was because they found that it was more difficult to mould military pilots to the way that this airline operated their aircraft and they found that the pilots were more aggressive with the planes. Experienced pilots are great for the airline industry, but this comes at a cost and airlines in Canada should wake up and realise that if they kept this notion of only hiring pilots with thousands of hours, then they are going to spend more money and more training at the end of the day. The rest of the world has tried and tested the cadet scheme and have hired young pilots and it works. This has been going on for decades, especially in Europe and it has worked wonderfully for them. Their safety records have been fantastic. It is a successful scheme. Most of these airlines today operate on profit and is something we envy here in Canada. I can honestly say that the rest of the world has taken a step ahead of us here in North America (especially Canada, with only one major airline) in hiring young pilots. I don't think a lot of you have thought about this issue before you wrote down your angry replies to "Glorified Donkey".
The ICAO issued license for Canadian pilots is a decent qualification, but is not up to the same high level of standards that are required from European airlines and the JAA (which the Middle East, Asia and Africa are moving towards). There are a number of topics in this forum alone which are discussing the conversion to JAA qualifications. The process is quite tedious and very expensive. On the other hand, Europeans that come to North America have it extremely easy. This is not to say that Canadian pilots should not fly or are not qualified, but it goes back to the same topic that "Glorified Donkey" brought up, regarding the lack of ability to fly worldwide with your Canadian license (if you have less than 'X' amount of Jet time).Canada does have a lot of flying. The fact that we live in the second largest country in the world almost always forces us to fly to places. Canada is rich in bush flying, float flying, private services, flying medical units etc... but Canada is NOT rich in the large commercial industry which "Glorified Donkey" has highlighted. Canada does not have the privilege which other countries have, where 747's and A340's constantly roam their skies from the many different airlines. Look at the UK. A country which alone fits roughly 4.5 times into Ontario, has a vast array of Commercial jet airlines which most operate on a profit. British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, EasyJet, Ryanair, British Midland etc.... So when "Glorified Donkey" made the comment that Canada sucks (which most of you took personally, because you were naive to think he referred to the country and not the aviation industry), I completely understood his perspective. I have spoken to a very large amount of Canadian pilots, ESPECIALLY working in Emirates Airlines and Gulf Air and they could not think of working in the Canadian market again. The market in Canada is very volatile. Just recently we had Jetsgo go under. Air Canada, which is our sole official carrier, has fired and laid off pilots, right, left and centre. Then they talk about pay cuts and they talk about pension funds and so on. I think we have to be humble about the fact that we do not have the best aviation industry. And unless you have tried something else and tested different airlines in other countries, then do not give your unwanted angry opinion to an aspiring person who thinks the Canadian market sucks. It does suck (commercially at least) and we have to accept it. Most of the Canadian pilots abroad were sceptical before flying to far off places in Asia to get jobs, but they eventually realised that there was something better out there. Sure they miss Canada, because it is their home, but when you get a 14 month annual salary and free accommodation and private schooling for your children in a tax free country, then I can definitely tell you that the aviation industry here DOES suck.
"Do you really think it should be commonplace to have an 18 year old in such a position of responsibility?"
STS, you seem to have a very narrow view of what can and cannot be done in the aviation industry. This also comes to me as a surprise from someone who claims to have been in the aviation industry since 1978. I am not sure if you are aware of this fact, but First Officers are usually with a Captain in the cockpit. Captains are highly experienced pilots and are there to help, guide and teach First Officers. Next time you fly on an airline which is not registered in North America, just ask for the First Officers age. I can guarantee you, that you will be in the departures lounge for a long time. At 18, you can vote, smoke, drink (almost everywhere around the world), drive a car, operate machinery and you are telling me that you do not find it common place to have an 18 year old operate a large aircraft. As for yourself, an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, I would assume you had to be an apprentice for a while and then worked along side experienced engineers in maintaining aircraft. I have seem fitters and AME who work on aircraft who are as young as 18 years of age. Surely you would agree then that they should be NOW WHERE NEAR an aircraft...!!! You also surely would agree that an AME's job in maintaining safety should be just as impeccable as a pilot and anyone else in the aviation industry. Then according to your philosophy, they should mature till the age of 40(or some ripe old age), then become AME's for a big airline, in the meantime they could gain experience by maintaining props and turbo shafts, because they are not AS important.
Now that I have finished my ranting, I am sure I am going to get some interesting feedback in this forum. “Glorified Donkey” don’t just sulk and think that we have it horrible here in Canada, if you really want a high paying job with a great and prosperous airline, then you will have to relocate (which you have expressed already). Write to these airlines and find out their entry criteria’s. Canadians are the largest single nationality to be hired as pilots on Emirates Airline. I think they will be willing to accept a Canadian ICAO licence. Always remember that the world is your oyster and there are lots of opportunities out there. Hope you the best of luck in finding a job out there and keep your chin up.
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Well said Speedbird eh! 
From my perspective, age and experience, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.
For fellow canadians who feel so strongly about canada, I'd agree that it is a clean, safe, and modern country, but that's it. As for being the best country in the world? I guess it depends on what you're smokin'.
Sorry, I don't agree.
I am a patriotic canadian (small "c") and anything but nationalistic. (Thanks to Quebec!!
) My vision of Canada no longer includes this spoilt 'petit province'. (but that's my opinion, isn't it?) 
We don't live in true democracy thanks to an antiquated Parliamentary system inhereted from the Brits.
AS for aviation here. It's a joke. True, our licencing is better than most countries but nowhere near the standard it should be.
Those of you working overseas know quite well and are much less likely to return when Air Canada fires up the "B" scale hiring machine in a few weeks. And, why would you want to pay the exorbitant tax rates clean, safe and modern bring with it?
Dubai is clean, safe and modern. Isn't it?
From my perspective, age and experience, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments.
For fellow canadians who feel so strongly about canada, I'd agree that it is a clean, safe, and modern country, but that's it. As for being the best country in the world? I guess it depends on what you're smokin'.
Sorry, I don't agree.
I am a patriotic canadian (small "c") and anything but nationalistic. (Thanks to Quebec!!
) My vision of Canada no longer includes this spoilt 'petit province'. (but that's my opinion, isn't it?) We don't live in true democracy thanks to an antiquated Parliamentary system inhereted from the Brits.
AS for aviation here. It's a joke. True, our licencing is better than most countries but nowhere near the standard it should be.
Those of you working overseas know quite well and are much less likely to return when Air Canada fires up the "B" scale hiring machine in a few weeks. And, why would you want to pay the exorbitant tax rates clean, safe and modern bring with it?
Dubai is clean, safe and modern. Isn't it?
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Speedbird, very well put. I am a proud Canadian. I love this country and have seen most of it.
But....the avation industry in this country is whacked!
Fortunatley for me I am happily married. Unfortunately, with my wife's chosen profession, although highly educated, she would probably have a problem having her certification accepted in most non-english speaking countries. Probably for that matter, in some english speaking countries. That makes it difficult for me to choose to work abroad. Sincle I love avition, I will slog it out here. The closest I will get to Speedbirds type of carrer, possobly, is working for a CX based in Canada. Unless of course, we can find out which countries will accept my wife's qualifications and reward her accordingly.
Oh, well...
But....the avation industry in this country is whacked!
Fortunatley for me I am happily married. Unfortunately, with my wife's chosen profession, although highly educated, she would probably have a problem having her certification accepted in most non-english speaking countries. Probably for that matter, in some english speaking countries. That makes it difficult for me to choose to work abroad. Sincle I love avition, I will slog it out here. The closest I will get to Speedbirds type of carrer, possobly, is working for a CX based in Canada. Unless of course, we can find out which countries will accept my wife's qualifications and reward her accordingly.
Oh, well...
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Thats where Im headed. Love Canadian beer and women, but its not enough to keep me here, I am in a sense done with Canada. Insurance is too high, everything is privatized so its so expensive, taxes are through the roof and services suck. There are people with landed immigrant status that get priority over a doctor, even though I was born in this country. Like that even means anything anymore. Really too bad, Im sure all the expats wanted to fly in their home country, but the quality of life in Canada is no longer the same. Sorry if any of you took my comments personally.
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Some good posts from both sides, I do believe Canada produces high quality pilots, but as far as the Europeans go, well at least they are not in debt for most of their twenties, making below poverty line and in most cases working a dock or ramp instead of flying. Aviation is expensive. If you invest $35 or 40K you should leave and be making money (at least 30K) I have friends that spent less than $10K on their education and they make triple what a flight instructor makes. Thats where the system is flaud. Theres no money, no job security. You may say we have the better pilots, what good is that if you can only afford KD and you can't move up because too many high time guys are sitting on the low end jobs. With crazy minimum requirements like 500hrs to fly a 172, what do you expect?
If you enjoy the bush flying thing, then theres no better country to do your flying. But thats about where it ends
If someone asked me if I wanted to fly and make $15K a year or be a button pusher for $55K, Id say where do I sign up for the button pusher job?
If you enjoy the bush flying thing, then theres no better country to do your flying. But thats about where it ends
If someone asked me if I wanted to fly and make $15K a year or be a button pusher for $55K, Id say where do I sign up for the button pusher job?
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Dockjock,
Whoa big fella. Easy now. Speedbird is correct on the majority of what he is saying. You sound bitter. European aviation is for the elite and a rich boys club? That one made me laugh and fall off my chair as you would say.Canadian aviation sucks for one reason. Too many pilots willing to bend over and take it.
Not everyone over here gets their big airline job at 19 with 200 hours but it does happen. I have flown with FO's with 300 hours and they flew circles around some of the higher time lads.
I did the bush thing at home, flew scheds, meds and everything in between. Numerous types on my licence and I left Canada for one reason. I wanted a better career and at least from my experience and others that have done the same, this is what has happened. Look at the royal mess at AC, the circus called Jetsgo and the puny wages at WJ and you need to look no further. I am sorry but this is the truth....
So before you start mocking people you should actually know what you are talking about because from what i have read you clearly don't.
Whoa big fella. Easy now. Speedbird is correct on the majority of what he is saying. You sound bitter. European aviation is for the elite and a rich boys club? That one made me laugh and fall off my chair as you would say.Canadian aviation sucks for one reason. Too many pilots willing to bend over and take it.
Not everyone over here gets their big airline job at 19 with 200 hours but it does happen. I have flown with FO's with 300 hours and they flew circles around some of the higher time lads.
I did the bush thing at home, flew scheds, meds and everything in between. Numerous types on my licence and I left Canada for one reason. I wanted a better career and at least from my experience and others that have done the same, this is what has happened. Look at the royal mess at AC, the circus called Jetsgo and the puny wages at WJ and you need to look no further. I am sorry but this is the truth....
So before you start mocking people you should actually know what you are talking about because from what i have read you clearly don't.
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I am an Italian with a Canadian CPL. I was lucky enough to fly in both Europe and Canada. They are both beautiful countries but aviation in Canada is cheaper, this does not mean that european pilot are all rich when they start!!!!!
The mentality is different and i found Canada very unfair with pilots. Instructing for example is a money-sucking machine, i know instructor that keep student flying dual so they can log the time even when they are ready for their solo. In europe an instructor is usually very experienced and at the end of his career. In my flying school we had an ex military pilot and an ex Alitalia Captain teaching, so they can pass experience to the student.
When i came here i had a 20 years old instructor, underpaid 200hr wonder with no experience in ANY field that was doing his best for my 40$ an hour!
I wonder why companies ask so many hours here!!!!!!
Flying is beautiful everywhere, i guess pilot in Canada should grow up a bit and start fighting for their rights (a TTC bus driver makes 4 times more than and instructor) right now if you want to fly with low-time and good pay Europe is the place to go!!!!!
The mentality is different and i found Canada very unfair with pilots. Instructing for example is a money-sucking machine, i know instructor that keep student flying dual so they can log the time even when they are ready for their solo. In europe an instructor is usually very experienced and at the end of his career. In my flying school we had an ex military pilot and an ex Alitalia Captain teaching, so they can pass experience to the student.
When i came here i had a 20 years old instructor, underpaid 200hr wonder with no experience in ANY field that was doing his best for my 40$ an hour!
I wonder why companies ask so many hours here!!!!!!
Flying is beautiful everywhere, i guess pilot in Canada should grow up a bit and start fighting for their rights (a TTC bus driver makes 4 times more than and instructor) right now if you want to fly with low-time and good pay Europe is the place to go!!!!!
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Well this is a career, I don't know about you but I didn't pay all this money to do this as a hobby. This is a career for me. And I expect to be paid for what I invested. It seems you've been brain washed by the system, pay your taxes to the big brother he'll look out for you. This industry you look out for yourself. Everyone complains if you buy a PPC, but are they gonna help you get a job, no. Therefore you do what you have to, to move on. They will always complain because they thought they would be given the job and they were dissapointed. Enjoy paying your taxes!
And its not even about the money or prestige. Its about being paid fairly and treated with respect. Instead you\'re paid less than a 2 cent whore and taken advantage of by your employer making you fly for free and clean his hangar. Thats not aviation my good friend thats exploitation, and anyone agrees to do that kind of work needs to get their heads checked.
And its not even about the money or prestige. Its about being paid fairly and treated with respect. Instead you\'re paid less than a 2 cent whore and taken advantage of by your employer making you fly for free and clean his hangar. Thats not aviation my good friend thats exploitation, and anyone agrees to do that kind of work needs to get their heads checked.