Wow it really sucks up here!

[smo]

I'll accept that as an apology or that it did not nessecarily include me, and yes I did fly the C-46.
Case closed.

The funny thing is that the most money i ever made as a pilot was flying a C185. The monthly salary was far from the highest I've been paid, but when you consider that accomodation, phone satelite TV, and a lot of the food was included it was great. Thanks to living on Native reserves for 2 years I did not need a vehicle either. Basically I had no bills other than student loans.

[Dockjock]

Otterman,
By elitist, firstly I refer to the cost of training- availability of loans or not, it is clearly a barrier to entry, unless you are already from "money". Yes of course there will be exceptions, but I really don't think we can debate that a $100K bill for a commercial pilot license is very, very high. In light of the comparisons to Canada, where DOES that extra $60K or so go? Are you guys training on learjets ? Does it take 4 yrs to complete?! I do realize fuel is almost double the cost of N.A., but it sounds like a big, big tax grab over there. In any case...

I do think I misread your meaning for screening. I took it to mean psychometric testing, interviews, medical tests over and above the standards for CAT1 etc. If it is purely an aptitude test then I fully agree this should be adopted in Canada too. I do not agree fully with the charter of rights and freedoms as it does too often serve the lowest common denominator and nobody else.

I'm trying not to defend Canada's system, or really lack thereof. Just explaining it to the spring-loaded-to-whine crowd that seems to feel they are owed something just because they wear bars on their shoulders. I feel a switch to a college program only system would serve everyone better. Well, everyone except operators that count on pilots to pay their own training and work for free. There should be 6-8 colleges that offer the CPL training and none others. Private flight schools could offer recreational, private, night, IFR, multi, aircraft rental etc but no commercial. Groundschool should require at least 1000 hrs instead of just 150 of whatever pittance it is now. And the exams should require more than the memorization of the few study guide products that are out there. I mean essentially you can pass the cpl exam by spending $80 on those cheat notes.

[confort977]

Transat had a 26 year old L1011 Captain a few years ago.

[PoorPongo]

All the above seems to focus on the FW airline route. What about helos? I get the impression that there is a pretty vibrant RW industry in Canada which pays OK. Informal info I have heard tells me that if you have more than about 1000 hrs rotary then you should be able to get some kind of rotary work in Canada. How about taking that path? Or am I missinformed?

PP

PS - FFP - It appears we have the same plan... My Canadian Mortgage is currently being paid off on Aunty Betty with a view to a move in a few years time once its paid off and the pension kicks in at the right level... I'm off to BC to ski in Winter and fly aeros in the summer. What about you?

[zorx]

Brovo speedbird and industry in need of a major overhaul.It could be argued that a more serious psycological problem exists in Canada.I,m not qualified to pin point it but paranoid and arrogance comes to mind.A country run by a handfull of od school families.Not to mention the free trade agreement which is so easily forgotten and was responsible for the loss of Canada,s best and brightest,leaving only those who could keep the Canadian machine running ie:factory workers,social services and labour.I could go on, but great commentary .
BROVO,BROVO,BROVO

[herc driver]

So, back to the original question, or discussion point of the thread .... I think it was Glorified Donkey who wrote ...

"........ but the aviation industry in Canada sucks ...."

I've been flying in Canada now since 1987 and I love it .... even if I am underpaid by some other people's standards.

I just love to fly.

Sure, I don't get paid great amounts of money, but I get paid enough to live in a nice house, comfortable belongings, I've got a big TV with a huge surround sound system, a kick ass computer for on-line gaming, a nice car and I have just about everything I need ..... from a material point of view. I'm satisfied and I manage to save and invest at the same time - I live debt free and make regular payments on a reasonable sized mortgage.

What more is there??

Live well, buy the stuff you want, do your hobbies that you enjoy and save for retirement and the future along with a nice pension as well.

Sure I don't have a Condo in Whistler and I don't do exotic things that one would associate with the "jet set", but I am really happy. I may not be getting paid the same as the European pilot who has been working the same amount of time for a European carrier, but what do I care ...... I live quite comfortably. I drink single malt scotches, enjoy the odd Cuban cigar and have a fridge full of oak-aged fine wines. If I had another second house, or a bigger house then it is simply more house that I have to clean. (Suppose I could hire someone I guess)

I just love to "FLY" ..... and the aviation industry in Canada has allowed me to do just that. The view from my office on any given day is the best view I have ever had.

I am not stinking rich like some people's perceptions of a 41 year old pilot should be .... but I am happy, comfortable and I love what I do.

How many people out there can truly say that. How many us are in jobs that they simply love .... ???

**** man - people pay me to fly!!! What more in life is there?

If we always go around comparing ourslves to what other people/pilots are making and doing then we will never be happy or content. I've got everything I need to live well ..... the salary is pretty damned good and I have no fear of my future as my grey hair turns even greyer .....

The Canadian Aviation Industry has been pretty good to me.

If you don't like what you are being paid in the Canadian Aviation Industry then move on until you find what makes you happy and content .... keep going until you find the job/company that pays you want you think you are worth .... simple as that.

Nobody is holding a gun to your head to work for a specific company in a specific country. You're free to choose.

It's all about the flying ..... the rest is gravy.

[CaptW5]

Amen to that HercDriver I can say the same thing, have been flying here since late 1972. Prior to that in Europe, and since then some stints there and elsewhere.

[744]

747 Capt @ 28 yr & F/O @ 21yr

18 perhaps a bit early, but I personally know 1 case of a F/O on 747-400 at 21 (min age in Europe for ATPL) directly out of flight school (1990). Also for sure know of a captain on 747 at age 28, and many examples in the early 30's.

BUT is that the goal? Once you are on the long-haul, one will see only a small part of flying. So you better did your real flying before.

Canada's problem is the old "supply & demand". Where else does an airline require a university degree to fly an airplane? They must require airplane designers not operators.

BUT does one want to live where the supply is low and the demand is high?????

In my humble opinion the equipment doesn't matter much (it wears off quickly). What matters is the lifestyle it offers and the company environment.

Cheers,

744

[FFP]

Some decent posts by both Herc Driver and 744 .....

Having flown long haul, I think I'd rather take a back seat and enjoy my flying a little more, be around home for the family and let my body have a rest !! Constant changes in time zones soon takes it's toll .. . . . .

PoorPongo = Sorry for the late reply. Have a few years left to do before the big move. Off to Ontario, hopefully to do some 9 -5 instructing and relax a little. Aunt Betty too will pay off the Canadian mortgage !!

[Ross_11]

So. Here I am all set to hike half the globe, all the way to Canada for Flight training…PPL…CPL… MIFR et all. And then I come across this post! I actually took the time to read all of your posts (other than those with a hint of personal Vendetta !), and at the end of it all, have a very different perspective! A scary one, to say the least!
Not that it makes a huge difference to me; I only intend to get my training and then get the hell back to my country! But I guess, ‘research’ before you plunge in with both your feet, in an industry as cyclical as this one, is an understatement!
The few disturbing posts here include ones which mention that Wannabe Jet ‘stars’, use instruction as plain time building ‘process’, continue to fly dual with a trainee pilot even when he’s ready to solo! These, I understand, are localized rather than general happenings?
People tell me, if I continue researching, I’ll never get started. But tell me, what does one do when he gets to such a post…..with all his savings at stake…..with high standards on mind!
I have absolutely no qualms against nationalities, neither do I have any intention to offend anyone with his/her choices, opinions, …or anything else….prior to what I’m about to put across. My sole intention is:
1. Love what I do and a career as a commercial pilot is close if not ‘it’.
2. Get quality flying training, as that is what gets you places, rather than ‘where’ you’ve done it all.
3. Have a time restraint; We don’t get younger, besides, at 27 it’s rather tempting to jump the gun and get on with it, having learnt that a fair possibility exists, to find a 18yr something at the helm of a 747!
4. Have every intention to be connected to aviation on a global platform (post ATPL blues), rather than restrain myself to aviation in my own country content on a simple but reasonably affordable life!
5. Have a limited budget, but just sufficient to pull off training in OZ rather than cheaper Canada. A degree approach though, in either place, is beyond me; though I intend to get it sometime in the future.

I gather from this forum that a Canadian license, holds lesser value, on a global platform. PLEASE correct me where I stand corrected! A EU license, on the other hand holds greater value regards standards of training, but has a huge cost attached to it. Training in the US doesn’t even seem an option; they’re ready to shoot you out of the sky, at the slightest opportunity, that’s if you were even allowed to start flight training!...or even given a VISA to do so!! That leaves OZ….the one option, that I don’t know much about, except better quality and standards.

There are pros and cons to every place; AGREED. But, I admit, I would really hate turning back, after a rough deal and a negative bank balance, to advise others, “if I could go back, I’d do it like this..or that”

So. Here’s the dilemma!
There’s a lot been said about the sad state for pilots in Canada. But how about the flying training… really? As mentioned earlier, all I wanna do with it is, get my licenses, ratings and get the hell out! I also admit, that I am slightly biased towards doing my flight training in Canada, reason being it’ll allow me the luxury of financing with some to spare!...just in case.
On the other hand, throwing caution to the winds (regards financing), and sticking to higher standards of training (@OZ) seems a better option. They say, “cheaper’s not always the better!”

Anyone open to shed some light on this?....would be great, and goes w/o saying, extremely welcome!

Thanks in advance.

[herc driver]

Ross 11

Something like this definitely requires research and careful thought before you "jump in with both feet". You have a lot of money at stake as well.

It seems, once you distill much of the insults & fighting out of this thread, that there are three areas of concern for you (and this thread I believe) when thinking about flying in canada.

1: The quality of flight training in Canada
2: The state of the low salaries that some people believe that Canadian pilots are willing to accept to work as commercial or airline pilots (in the charters or majors).
3: The international "value" of the Canadian pilot licence (Commercial, Airline, MIFR etc ...)

That is what people seem to be arguing about in the last few pages. Decide for yourself I suppose.

It sounds as if you only wish to seek flying training in Canada and not employment as a commercial or airline pilot after your training is complete. I can only assume that you will return home to India and begin your career from there. So lets forget about point #2.

The international value of a Canadian pilot licence - I am in no position to comment on that issue. I simply don't know enough about the topic to make any recommendations. As both military and civilian I have flown all over the world and I can safely say that I am as good as they come from any country. I am not the best and neither am I the worst. As a Canadian pilot I am a competent and skilled professional who is proud of his abilities. You'll have to ask someone else about point #3.

So, lets focus on point #1. Flying training in Canada.

If you ask 5 different people their thoughts on this matter I guarantee that you will receive a half a dozen different opinions and responses.

Like any industry there are good training institutions and bad ones. Despite government (Transport Canada) regulations you will always find schools of dubious quality. I am sure some of the horror stories mentioned in this thread are indeed true. I am sure that there are some very questionable, shady flying clubs that operate on a "fly by night" ethic. You just need to make sure that you enroll in a reputable school.

However, that being said, know that there are some very reputable flying training schools in Canada. Just like in any country in the EU, in the USA or any country for that matter ... there are good schools and bad schools. Canada is no different. There are several media sources (Wings magazine for example) that provides a list of very reputable flying schools in Canada.

I do not think that you have much to worry about if you are concerned about point #1 - Flying Training in Canada. It's as good as anywhere else in the world. You just have to choose your school very carefully just like any other country. We do not have a monopoly on excellence by any means, and neither does any other country for that matter. Your risk is just the same as if you were planning on conducting your training in the UK or in France for example.

Hope that helps and good luck in your search.

[spencer101]

Have you looked into the Moncton Flight College?

www.mfc.nb.ca/about.html

They offer training in Canada to get a European JAA licence.