Jetsgo YYC today...
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Nice post bcflyer.
Now, would all the dopes that hadn't thought of these extenuating circumstances (should you really fly a damaged airplane 30-40mins, gear down, to your alternate?-not unless you REALLY had to!) while sitting in front of their computers, calmly sipping coffee and scratching their balls, PLEASE ADMIT they're NOT better than the guy who CORRECTLY assessed his options while being somewhat engaged, at the same time, in wrestling this limping beast back into the air?
I am always sickened by the way we pilots (assuming we make up a fair porportion of posters here) will pounce on one of our own when something like this happens...always ready to believe the worst and start condemning before the facts are in.
Of course, I suspect there wouldn't be quite the same feeding frenzy if some other airline had been involved. Basically, some here think nothing of bashing this pilot only because it serves their oft-stated cause of further blackening the particular airline that employs him. Ol' Bird Brain, fer'instance, sounds so beside himself with glee, that he'd have probably had an out of body experience had this incident concluded with the A/C rolling itself into a heap. Disgusting.
In this pilot's defence, I will say that if it could happen to him, it could certainly happen to alot of other folk here, including myself. This gentleman is not a newbie (I work with him) and is probably still too busy working his way through what happened to be reading this or other forums, but I wish him a speedy return to the line and would have him know that I'd gladly put my family on his airplane anyday!
Now, would all the dopes that hadn't thought of these extenuating circumstances (should you really fly a damaged airplane 30-40mins, gear down, to your alternate?-not unless you REALLY had to!) while sitting in front of their computers, calmly sipping coffee and scratching their balls, PLEASE ADMIT they're NOT better than the guy who CORRECTLY assessed his options while being somewhat engaged, at the same time, in wrestling this limping beast back into the air?
I am always sickened by the way we pilots (assuming we make up a fair porportion of posters here) will pounce on one of our own when something like this happens...always ready to believe the worst and start condemning before the facts are in.
Of course, I suspect there wouldn't be quite the same feeding frenzy if some other airline had been involved. Basically, some here think nothing of bashing this pilot only because it serves their oft-stated cause of further blackening the particular airline that employs him. Ol' Bird Brain, fer'instance, sounds so beside himself with glee, that he'd have probably had an out of body experience had this incident concluded with the A/C rolling itself into a heap. Disgusting.
In this pilot's defence, I will say that if it could happen to him, it could certainly happen to alot of other folk here, including myself. This gentleman is not a newbie (I work with him) and is probably still too busy working his way through what happened to be reading this or other forums, but I wish him a speedy return to the line and would have him know that I'd gladly put my family on his airplane anyday!
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bcflyer, mutt, and faireydelta: hear, hear! I was going to post a reply to the bird guy but thought it would fall on deaf, ignorant ears. I am just hoping it wasn't a friend from Royal days, but even so, let's all just wait for the report before making uninformed statements...
JD
JD
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Gear was retracted again on the missed, can't comment on the flaps though. Apparently there was heavy damage to the flaps between the #2 and the fuselage from the sign. Plane was ferryed with little or no repair to YWG then onto YYZ for repair.
As for the fuel emergency, from what I hear it was delcared due to the fact that if calgary closed due to wx they would not have enough fuel to divert to YEG if they were forced to hold behind several other a/c waiting to get in that night.
As for the fuel emergency, from what I hear it was delcared due to the fact that if calgary closed due to wx they would not have enough fuel to divert to YEG if they were forced to hold behind several other a/c waiting to get in that night.
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Some of you guys are real morons!!!!!!! You mean AC, WJ etc never had any incidents? Give me a break--your speculation is nothing nore than bashing.
Ia m Birddog and C150---your views are well known.
For everyone's benefit--the Captain of that flight is a senior check Captain, with extensive widebody experience and, having flown with him, I can tell you he is extremely competent.
So your claim that this porves JGO is dangerous and inexperienced goes right out the window.
Ia m Birddog and C150---your views are well known.
For everyone's benefit--the Captain of that flight is a senior check Captain, with extensive widebody experience and, having flown with him, I can tell you he is extremely competent.
So your claim that this porves JGO is dangerous and inexperienced goes right out the window.
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FaireyDelta wrote:
Touché.
Your assumptions about how I would feel if anyone got hurt is just as guilty as the perception that I arrived to any conclusion about this incident.
I want no one hurt anyone. I have had friends die in aviation and I wish no one to go through that sorrow.
My (as well as many others) issues are not really with pilots. I wish no one unemployed. Only pilots seem to reply to my posts...
I have 2 friends that work for your company and both are very concerned. They are not the same people and have been under a lot of strain with the work schedule. You know of what I speak of...perhaps this may change the working conditions for you folks. Who knows...however I do know that sites like this one where opinions are exchanged whether they are thought provoking or not, seems to be generating discussion in the flight deck as I have heard some feed back. You nor I won’t change the industry…but someone has to try…whether you approve of my opinion or not or even a little.
Fly safe
Of course, I suspect there wouldn't be quite the same feeding frenzy if some other airline had been involved. Basically, some here think nothing of bashing this pilot only because it serves their oft-stated cause of further blackening the particular airline that employs him. Ol' Bird Brain, fer'instance, sounds so beside himself with glee, that he'd have probably had an out of body experience had this incident concluded with the A/C rolling itself into a heap. Disgusting.
Touché.
Your assumptions about how I would feel if anyone got hurt is just as guilty as the perception that I arrived to any conclusion about this incident.
I want no one hurt anyone. I have had friends die in aviation and I wish no one to go through that sorrow.
My (as well as many others) issues are not really with pilots. I wish no one unemployed. Only pilots seem to reply to my posts...
I have 2 friends that work for your company and both are very concerned. They are not the same people and have been under a lot of strain with the work schedule. You know of what I speak of...perhaps this may change the working conditions for you folks. Who knows...however I do know that sites like this one where opinions are exchanged whether they are thought provoking or not, seems to be generating discussion in the flight deck as I have heard some feed back. You nor I won’t change the industry…but someone has to try…whether you approve of my opinion or not or even a little.
Fly safe
Last edited by I am Birddog; 27th Jan 2005 at 13:09.
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Trader, you can call me a moron...I really don't care
...If my posts seem to bash Jetsgo pilots, I appologize...my beef is with Jetsgo as a company...I feel that they are just not safe. I know pilots at Jetsgo...most of them are good guys and good pilots, but there are some that are just too inexperienced to hold left seat on the MD...the pilot pool shrinks real quick when you charge a $30000 entrance fee.
I realize that other companies have had incidents...I just think that Jetsgo has had MORE than their fair share and it is only by some stroke of luck that some of these incidents have not become accidents. Many of you will deny that there has been alot of incidents, but I know of many things that would definitely steer the flying public away from Jetsgo. I guess these incidents just go un-noticed because they happen to have a happy ending.
Things like dropping out of coffin corner and losing 5000', flying with damaged/unsafe reversers, shutting down IRU's in flight in order to "reset" a problem (luckily it was VFR), smoke in the cabin(followed by passengers walking from the runway to the terminal...not a short walk in winter) and the list goes on...
Go ahead and bash me...I'm just stating my opinion...you can believe what you want, but I'll definitely pay extra to avoid flying on Jetsgo.
There is a reason for the popularity of the website www.jetsgosucks.com
Thanks for reading my rant...
...If my posts seem to bash Jetsgo pilots, I appologize...my beef is with Jetsgo as a company...I feel that they are just not safe. I know pilots at Jetsgo...most of them are good guys and good pilots, but there are some that are just too inexperienced to hold left seat on the MD...the pilot pool shrinks real quick when you charge a $30000 entrance fee.
I realize that other companies have had incidents...I just think that Jetsgo has had MORE than their fair share and it is only by some stroke of luck that some of these incidents have not become accidents. Many of you will deny that there has been alot of incidents, but I know of many things that would definitely steer the flying public away from Jetsgo. I guess these incidents just go un-noticed because they happen to have a happy ending.
Things like dropping out of coffin corner and losing 5000', flying with damaged/unsafe reversers, shutting down IRU's in flight in order to "reset" a problem (luckily it was VFR), smoke in the cabin(followed by passengers walking from the runway to the terminal...not a short walk in winter) and the list goes on...
Go ahead and bash me...I'm just stating my opinion...you can believe what you want, but I'll definitely pay extra to avoid flying on Jetsgo.
There is a reason for the popularity of the website www.jetsgosucks.com
Thanks for reading my rant...
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BC Flyier,
Although you are correct in stating that everyone in Canada has had incidents I think the comparison is flawed.........You cannot compare the numbers of Jetsgo to AC or WJ.
Jetsgo has been around just over a couple of years and operates a mere fraction of the daily departures of AC with only a fraction of the fleet of AC and for 60 some odd years less as well.So yes go ahead and mention YFC and really that is OK but the reality is that if you could make a percentage of incidents per departure over time Jetsgo has some issues.
I want to point out that I have nothing against the pilots there but I think that even the best pilot in the industry when working for a third level carrier is in danger.
I have spent years in the small third level airlines flying up north with all the risks involved that you all know.But when you have a bunch of people who want to run that kind of operation with MD83's and F100 you know what the risks are......
The warning signs are too frequent and regular and I hope someone at TC will do something about it (although I wouldn't put money on it).
I wish all you guys well and remember to stay safe nad that when they make you fly transcon with a full load in an MD83 with crap weather or a broken airplane, you can always find another job but not another license or god forbid another life.
Although you are correct in stating that everyone in Canada has had incidents I think the comparison is flawed.........You cannot compare the numbers of Jetsgo to AC or WJ.
Jetsgo has been around just over a couple of years and operates a mere fraction of the daily departures of AC with only a fraction of the fleet of AC and for 60 some odd years less as well.So yes go ahead and mention YFC and really that is OK but the reality is that if you could make a percentage of incidents per departure over time Jetsgo has some issues.
I want to point out that I have nothing against the pilots there but I think that even the best pilot in the industry when working for a third level carrier is in danger.
I have spent years in the small third level airlines flying up north with all the risks involved that you all know.But when you have a bunch of people who want to run that kind of operation with MD83's and F100 you know what the risks are......
The warning signs are too frequent and regular and I hope someone at TC will do something about it (although I wouldn't put money on it).
I wish all you guys well and remember to stay safe nad that when they make you fly transcon with a full load in an MD83 with crap weather or a broken airplane, you can always find another job but not another license or god forbid another life.
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I would be interested to find out if fatigue has any influnce in this incident. Canada has some of the most 'generous' FTLs in the world, and I am sure any low cost operator would use that to a maximum.
I hear that TC are now going to restrict lorry drivers to a maximum 14 hour day soon, because of the addition effect of continuous vibrations has on reaction times and decision-making.
I hear that TC are now going to restrict lorry drivers to a maximum 14 hour day soon, because of the addition effect of continuous vibrations has on reaction times and decision-making.
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jetsgo go around
I don't know the individuals involved well, but by their reputation the experience in that cockpit is likely well in excess of many of the all knowing posters. I like to remember something my first Captain said as a young DC3 copilot( thats what we were called).
We had just witnessed another DC3 slide off the side of a greasy northern airstrip covered in snow ice etc in equally poor weather. I recall him saying sheit but there for the grace of god go I. Its rather like the saying regarding landing with the gear still up. There are two kinds of pilots those that have and those that still might. Don't judge the actions of professionals" yes they are very PROFESSIONAL" without all the facts, they made a split second decision that could very well ahve saved everyone on that aircraft. Well done gentlemen.
We had just witnessed another DC3 slide off the side of a greasy northern airstrip covered in snow ice etc in equally poor weather. I recall him saying sheit but there for the grace of god go I. Its rather like the saying regarding landing with the gear still up. There are two kinds of pilots those that have and those that still might. Don't judge the actions of professionals" yes they are very PROFESSIONAL" without all the facts, they made a split second decision that could very well ahve saved everyone on that aircraft. Well done gentlemen.
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Unfortunately when discussing these issues where a crew and an airplane came very close to disaster it is passing judgement in a sense....
...until all the facts are made public after a complete investigation my suggestion would be to imagine how you would feel if you were one of that crew reading comments based on ignorance of all the facts.
Chuck E.
...until all the facts are made public after a complete investigation my suggestion would be to imagine how you would feel if you were one of that crew reading comments based on ignorance of all the facts.
Chuck E.
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C150, actually I did not call you a moron--I said some of the posters were moran. In fact, I should qualify that by saying some POSTS are moronic--attack the arguement NOT the poster!
Anyway, some of the incidents you allude to did not happen, specificaly the drop of 5000'. A mistake was made with regard to IRU's and my bet is those happen occasionally at ANY company. Smoke in the cabin---actually turned out to be fire supression equipment and if the pax walked to the terminal it was because the GTAA did not provide buses---all buses operated by the GTAA and the airlines use those!
All is not rosy but nor is it as bad as and unsafe as many lead others to believe.
Anyway, some of the incidents you allude to did not happen, specificaly the drop of 5000'. A mistake was made with regard to IRU's and my bet is those happen occasionally at ANY company. Smoke in the cabin---actually turned out to be fire supression equipment and if the pax walked to the terminal it was because the GTAA did not provide buses---all buses operated by the GTAA and the airlines use those!
All is not rosy but nor is it as bad as and unsafe as many lead others to believe.
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I am informed by two independant sources who have nothing to gain by spreading malicious rumor that the "coffin drop" did happen. Maybe not 5000', but it did happen.
c150 seems to be very well informed. That incident seems to a result of inexperience, though the person concerned is an excellent pilot. The more recent incident is (in my opinion)probably more related to fatigue. Any of us could do this if we were tired enough.
When is TC going to put realistic duty time regs. into effect.
Someone is going to get hurt.
c150 seems to be very well informed. That incident seems to a result of inexperience, though the person concerned is an excellent pilot. The more recent incident is (in my opinion)probably more related to fatigue. Any of us could do this if we were tired enough.
When is TC going to put realistic duty time regs. into effect.
Someone is going to get hurt.
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I have been following this thread for a week and cannot believe what I am reading!
The fact that the pilot ran off the runway into the weeds is not the issue here. Instances of jet transport aircraft running off the runway are not a rare occurrence unfortunately. What is rare is that a so-called professional pilot would elect to attempt a takeoff in a jet filled with pax while bouncing across the tundra. It is absolute lunacy!
The pilot had no idea the aircraft was even CAPABLE of flight at that point. The aircraft had landed, the engines were at idle, energy was bleeding off. If anyone out there can propose any scenario where it would be preferable to add great gobs of energy with the faint hope of accelerating to takeoff speed before the aircraft breaks up, rather than doing what you can to stop; I would very much like to hear it.
The fact that there are not 70+ people dead is a miracle.
The fact that the pilot ran off the runway into the weeds is not the issue here. Instances of jet transport aircraft running off the runway are not a rare occurrence unfortunately. What is rare is that a so-called professional pilot would elect to attempt a takeoff in a jet filled with pax while bouncing across the tundra. It is absolute lunacy!
The pilot had no idea the aircraft was even CAPABLE of flight at that point. The aircraft had landed, the engines were at idle, energy was bleeding off. If anyone out there can propose any scenario where it would be preferable to add great gobs of energy with the faint hope of accelerating to takeoff speed before the aircraft breaks up, rather than doing what you can to stop; I would very much like to hear it.
The fact that there are not 70+ people dead is a miracle.
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Ralphy, who says the power was at idle and the speed bleeding off???? NO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He could easily have been in the go around when he exited the pavement. You, me and everyone else still have no idea as to what transpired so all this arm chair quarterbacking should shut up until the investigators have completed their work.
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Trader...I thought that this was the Professional Pilots "RUMOUR" Network...not the Professional Pilots "wait until you get all the facts and then make a post after taking into account all the pertinant information" Network...
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Hey, Lead Zep,
NO..... C150 is NOT right.
Read his post again.
He implies that because this is a "Rumour" network it is OK to make wild assumptions.......
If not he suggests we should change the name to the "Wait until you get all the facts and then make a post after taking into account all the pertinant information" Network.......
I have to admit that this incident does look bad for the pilots in question, but why not wait until all the facts are known before judging them.
NO..... C150 is NOT right.
Read his post again.
He implies that because this is a "Rumour" network it is OK to make wild assumptions.......
If not he suggests we should change the name to the "Wait until you get all the facts and then make a post after taking into account all the pertinant information" Network.......
I have to admit that this incident does look bad for the pilots in question, but why not wait until all the facts are known before judging them.