Virgin - Crew Discussions II
 

Don't let them give away OUR pay
 

To put this into perspective when the company states it doesn't have enough money to pay us more:

Richard Branson is donating 1.6BILLION over 10 years for research into carbon offsetting and bio fuels that (hopefully) will be better for the environment. While this is fantastic for Earth and a great cause this money is coming from Virgin Atlantic profits. My calculator has trouble because 1.6billion has too many digits but if you work out based on £1billion it equates to:

£100million per year or divide by 4000 crew members thats £25,000 so no one should believe that Virgin don't have enough money to offer us a measly pay increase.

Vote NO and let us the hardworking crew (and don't forget the office and ground staff) share in the companies fortune.

And the company that he is donating the money to is owned by?..........

Virgin Fuels!!
 

Virgin Fuels!!

While you are all rushing to strike, losing valuable customers and jobs
here is something for you all to read.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/5acbd646-49c...0779fd2ac.html

The Virgin 'GROUP'
 

I think you will find the investment in AirAsia X is by the Virgin Group, not VAA.

Same for the profit donations into carbon offsetting research.

Judging by the latest financial results, I don't think VAA's contribution to the above would be very substantial at all.

Richards money
 

VS is Richards baby. He won't allow it to get as far as striking. Even if he has to dip into his personal fortune of £5 billion. He can easily make £250 million per year by putting his billions into a 5% interest bearing account.

THE COMPANY HAVE MONEY

Vote NO

Ah the urban myths that "the company" is awash with money, whilst having to pay more and more out to fight in an increasing price concious market.
Don't need new planes for the CC to fly around in do we?
Still CC don't care do they? so long as they can get over inflation pay rises if the company goes down or has to make redundancies, so what? always get another job, until the day dawns (quite soon now) when the jobs won't be there for overpaid militants. You are living in cloud cookoo land.
As for Branson and what he does with HIS money, he made it, he can spend it.
many regular passengers, you know, the ones who pay your wages, will not stand for their flights being disrupted and will go to other airlines offering as good a service, whilst even the Economy passengers, the ones who save up for 12 months for their holiday will also go to other airlines and will be surprised that the Cabin crew on those airlines actually smile and come round with more than one per flight drinks round and then do not go and hide in the galley, giggling and discussing their latest hair do whilst ignoring the call button, hell even the Charters on the B & S routes are providing a better service than you!
But you carry on, like the industries of the seventies which also were under the misapprehension that their jobs were fireproof.

money £££
 

Warkman,

I think you will find the £1.6billion being given away over 10 years is 'profit' this means the cost of new aircraft, which are paid via the amortization method and crew/staff costs etc..etc... have all been taken into account.

Clearly you just have an issue with Virgin crew as you have started attacking us re: doing the cabin service and then hiding in the galley etc. Well I have been flying for 10 years and Virgin are my 4th airline. Yes the other 3 companies paid far better and I knew the salary at VS when I joined. But now several years on I can see clearly that the company doesn't give a stuff about its staff and are continually lying to us about having no money when clearly they do.

Actually back2front, its not me stating those comments about the crews attitude, but comments from passengers on forums all over the internet, not just trip reports, but holiday sites and other discussion forums.
When people say that service is better on Charter flights then that should be a wake up call to you all.
You need to see how you are viewed by those who pay your wages. Its almost as bad a Flyglobespan! (Mind you, the complaints about them are only about flight times, not the poor service)

I shoukd also say that the 1.6 Billion (which will probably end up to be a lot less than that) is a legitamate cost for the airline to survive, unless Virgin do find renewable energy, your costs are going to rise and rise, plus the thuggy anti globalisatioin, anti aircraft lot will keep causing you more problems. Its a very good publicity piece from Branson, plus could end up being a nice buisness supplying to other airlines as well.

warkman I am well aware of the forums you speak of. I read the sites regularly and always with a heavy heart and wondering what we can do to fix this problem. Certainly taking a crew member off the aircraft is not going to help.

One thing I must say though is that many of the complaints are related to the product rather than the crew. Its quite embarassing as a crew member handing out the trays in economy with some awful hot meal that can not even be described as it looks so bad. Then we have a poor choice of drinks in the bar carts and even worse a lack of drinks (we frequently run out). VS are the only airline I have worked for that roundtrip wines and other drinks so they are supposed to load enough product for the roundtrip but this often doesn't happen or if you have a very busy flight you can easily run out leaving little or nothing for the return flight. This should not be happening on a premium carrier and could easily be fixed by exchanging drinks carts in out ports. Heading up to J class we have a cramped cabin and although I think the food quality in J is OK the portion sizes are tiny. VS responds that pax can eat at the clubhouse before they board but many customers do not.

Some of the crew do have bad attitude. Virgin need to address this by looking at the recruitment procedure and again the pay. They seem to hire people who only want to stay a few months to a year and in the process VS spend thousands and thousands of pounds recruiting, training etc to only get back a short period of work from the crew member. If they paid better I really believe people would stay longer and VS would increase their return on investment.

Renewable energy - all for it and I can see the business potential of supplying other airlines but if VS have this money to spend then they should at least pay us a bit more.

Warkman,

You seem to suggest that the attitude of CC is ME ME ME!
We are not looking for over inflated salaries but a salary that is in line with the rest of the company.

Why should your salary be better? - you made a lifetsyle choice to become crew - you cant compare the two.

Look on Ifly - there is actually very little discrepancy in the VS salaries.

As Crew for Virgin, Warkman does have some valid points - I am fed up of the ME ME ME attitude.

And our service standards are slipping - we only need to look at XPlane and GAP to see that.

I overheard one Crew Member yesterday saying she only voted No as she had been told to - and therein lies the problem - this frenzy has been whipped up without people looking at the bigger picture.

Our profit per pound is very poor and it will continue to decline with all of this negative press regarding pay deals.

And perhaps Crew have a responsibiity to do the job that they are paid to do and not let any morale issues have a negative impact on the Customer.

The reality is that VS flights have a higher Crew complement than other carriers - even when we are Crew down which has become a lot less frequent we have the same number of Crew on our flights as other carriers with roughly the same config have.

And as for pay - as a Senior Cabin Crew member last year I earned just short of 19k comprsing basic, trip pay and comissions- and that does not include allowances - average allowance per annum is equated to 5K - I think that is a good salary for the jobs we do.

Its a lifestyle choice to work for an airlines - especially one like Virgin> I would not even contemplate going to another airline for a few grand more because Virgin offers me more lifestyle benefits.

But I guess most people find it easier to moan, take no responsibilty and expect handouts. And I could almost guarantee that the employees on here who genuinely berate Virgin for being a poor employers are very vocal about how great they are onboard and its all the companies fault that they have no job satisfaction.

All for Jcdcon I'm afraid.
 

Firstly Jcdcon.....
When I said it should be better, I did not mean 'better than Office staff', but better than it is now. You mention iFly and the salaries advertised there but have you actually ever worked in a VS office, spoken to the staff about pay and seen what many take home with overtime, increments and staff shortages? Probably not, otherwise you would not have been so quick to bite my head off.

Secondly, why can't I ask for a pay rise after 13 years? The nurses, teachers, firemen etc do it after a year or so and no-one bats an eyelid, even though they clearly knew the salary when they made a career choice.

Thirdly, I strongly and wholeheartedly disagree and take great offence to your (and others) suggestion that Virgin crew have an attitude of Me Me Me and that we provide a poor service and are sheep when it comes to voting!!!:mad:
Look around you. The forums are full of complaints for ALL airlines and not just Virgin.
I voted NO because £23k as a Manager just doesnt cut the mustard with me!
Allowances? These are not a taxable element of my salary, do not count towards my mortgage borrowing capability, therefore I wont address any comments on them except this. BA/2 night NRT/£425. VS/2 night NRT/£150.

It is superb that as a senior CM you feel great about earning 19k. I hope you feel as ecstatic about earning £23k as a Manager in 10 years time. Before you launch the lifestyle card again, may I remind you that its not all Hard Rock pool parties, but working Christmas (for a £50 bonus:}), enduring long delays, flying in Red Alert times and a damn lot of studying.
I remember being a senior and how stress free and easy my life was, but its not like that as an FSM. Whilst you are getting some kip for the return sector, I'm quite often sorting out sick crew (on average about 1 in every 6 flights), talking to the hotel about crew behaviour (yes that happens too), talking to ground staff and airport staff about delays, catering probs etc (yes they call your room) dealing with lost items etc in check-in when we land and generally being a manager whilst supposedly off duty. You may not see that, yet you speak of the bigger picture, but are clearly just seeing the horizon. When I joined I did not see a big ad saying 'Managers come this way for £22k'. I joined as a junior with a salary I was happy with. I just didnt expect my salary to creep up so darn slowly! I thought it would at least keep up with my growing expertise and experience!

You mention crew compliments. I can guarantee you 100% that those levels are not there to make life 'nice and easy for the crew unlike those other horrid airlines'. Those levels are set because Virgin knows that to ensure the service it promises its customers, those crew HAVE to be there.

I happen to love my job and love the company but I simply feel that I should be rewarded with a better salary.
I have a mind, I have a brain. I care about my pax and the brand. But my morale is low after seeing several payslips from other depts. To be blunt, I feel like I'm having the piss taken out of me now. :*

Lots of comments from both sides of the coin here...agree with some from both sides. if i may give a view of the situation from a different department. You can't compare salaries with different jobs...everyone gets paid according to the job they do...pilots gets the most....some say they are paid way to much....some say they take a lot more responsibilities than anyone else as they are in charge of the plane, but only while it is in the air.....don't forget all the people behind the scenes that take a legal responsibility for the plane i.e. the qualified engineers, both in the office based jobs, in the hangars and on the ramp. These staff have studied far more, and for longer (approx 7 years to be qualified!)(how long for cabin crew ?!!), take a lot of responsibility but are paid far less than flt crew. Supply and demand forces at work here.. Now the pay rises for nearly everyone else in the airline (but not flt crew !) have been basically the same as cc. The difference is that VS wish to change your terms/rostering/standbys etc. My understanding is that one of the biggest problems VS has with CC is the level of sickness/no shows for flights by CC. If CC think the working conditions are that bad then leave. Supply and demand would force VS to pay more/improve conditions etc if the turnover got to high. If no one went sick, then the large amount of standbys would be reduced. Yes working conditions at VS have gone downhill in recent years, however you know where the door is......As to levels of service in the cabin....they have definetly got worse in all cabins. Some of this is due to the cutbacks in food, drinks, amenities kits etc, which does make CC jobs harder. However, everyones job is now harder, I personally believe it is the crew that make the difference on the flight. In my experience VS Y has never been very good, its OK but there are many airlines especially from Asia that provide far superior service in al classes. I recently took a company business trip to LAX in J. the outbound flight although late in leaving due to baggage problems, was excellent. Food was average but crew were excellent. The return was the opposite. CC continually heard complaining about lack of sleep, hangovers, hardly had the initial service finished, the numbers of CC suddenly diminished...I wonder where to..! Yes you guessed it from this post that I am not a fan of moaning CC, if you don't like it leave.

WILL PEOPLE STOP SAYING THAT WE ARE COMPARING JOBS AND SALARIES! WE ARE NOT!:ugh:

Right now that I have that off my chest, I feel I must make it clearer why the 'comparison' was made.
The Office staff (most, not all) are earning money which reflects not only the job that they do, but also the cost of living today.
If office staff can be paid a fair salary, then why cant our cabin crew? £900 pm is not realistic for a young junior living in the south.

So you say if you dont like it leave! Great! Fantastic! 94% of VS cabin crew make a mass exodus for the job centre. Who takes the flight that day? The pilots? The Engineers? The Office Staff? The Ground staff? NO-ONE! Because no-one has our training or knowledge to just take a flight.

We are in a strong position and not being greedy or unreasonable. The 4.8% would have been fine if the other 'enhancements' were not shoved in. No-one is looking for 10% or other crazy rumours.

And yes I agree, moaning cabin crew are a pain in ass, but not unique to the airline. Snappy engineers, Silent checking in staff, busy club-house staff etc etc. They ALL do it.

Why other staff are making this a them and us situation I have no idea why.

Sign it to your room , you are so bang on in my opinion. I am also an FSM and very similar to you was happy earning 8K as a juniour but once again thought that it would not take so bloody long for my salary to increase. I have noticed on here too many times people are trying to make this a them and us situation which its not !!!!!! I work hard and give 120% every time , i have read alot of these forums too and sit gutted wondering what we can do to improve the situation. All the other departments pay increase was without conditions attached yet ours as cabin crew always seems to have them !!!!! Why !!! I would have been happy with the increase without conditions.. We as crew have joined a union to get recognition which other depertments havent so why is it wrong to be asking the union to do something for us, after all we pay them every month ! I dont want to strike, it sends the wrong messages out to our customers, but we need to stand up for ourselves - dont we ?

At last! I thought I was going slightly mad there for a second.

Anyone would sthink we were asking for shares in the company, a nice Audi TT company car etc etc.

I don't remember all this fuss when our pilots got so close to striking. All they wanted was a salary that was in line with other airlines and everyone whole heartedly agreed with them (I still do) and shouted 'Here Here' from their loud hailers across the globe. I dont remember a single comment of "bugger off to another airline if you dont like it" either, so why the blatant lack of disrespect for our crew?

I know that crew are seen as being far more dispensible to airlines and easier to replace, but in reality that is a total myth. Us oldies at VS are needed. You can be the most fantastic Senior/Junior crew member but no amount of smiles and conversation will give you the wealth of experience that time brings.

As for the service going down hill, then yes that needs to be addressed. I shall certainly take note on my next flight about the comment of crew disappearing when the service was barely over to go on break. I have released crew early before, but now shall think twice about it.

We seem to be getting lots of support from our pilots and other airlines (namely BA) but very little from our own workforce. We're not at war and the general census is that no-one wants to strike.

Having followed this thread with interest as a fellow employee (not cabin crew,engineer) I can see that people from both sides of the fence have made valid contributions to the debate and glad to see that we are all adult enough to keep this thread from turning into a name calling playground episode,I feel it would be unfair to generalise/tar all crew with the same brush with the 'me me me' attitude as I guess every profession has a few idiots.Yes your pay is below the industry norm,yes the company could probably spend their money more wisely,and yes the terms that you guys/girls unions have negotiated (I use that word loosely as I'm not sure how much of a fight they put up) but was striking going to alleviate the situation or make it worse not only for yourselves but the rest of the company?I wont even dream of saying you know where the door is if you dont like it because I realize things are never that straightforward.Admittedly the payrise for ground/non unionized staff at less than the rate of inflation was a bitter pill to swallow,and like many I feel undervalued (who doesnt,right?) but if the money aint there then what else were we going to do?At the risk of being flamed (but this is open debate right?) the company need to stop recruiting people who are effectively school leavers and only stick around for a few months,maybe a year,and take some more mature,dedicated staff but then who else with a bit of maturity and dedication is willing to work the antisocial hours for not a lot of money?Tough call but it certainly shows in the level of care and service from 'more experienced' crew members,maybe not everyones idealogical view of the virgin way but as has been previously mentioned would you rather be served by a thirty something crew member who was attentive and happy to help or a disinterested 20 year old who is only looking forward to getting to the bar/beach/Abercrombie shop(sorry I couldnt resist) down route?Apologies if this doesnt make much sense 12 hour shift plays havoc with the mind....Take care out there guys and girls and mind the treehuggers at LHR

Here's a quote "When acceptance has been achieved we will work through the various staff representative committees to both explain the construction of the Cabin Crew agreement and look to see how we might apply similar principles in other areas of the business." So reading between the lines they are going to look at way's of screwing over other departments if the cabin crew accept!!!!

There are bad cabin crew the same as there are bad engineers or pilots or check in agents. There are also plenty more good ones & perhaps they do deserve a better deal with no "small print".

at the end of the day its all about the managers (and I use that term loosely) screwing over the staff so they get a nice big bonus themselves.

I really hope the crew can see through the spin and vote no.

VS69
 

To VS69
You just hit the nail on the head!
If I wasnt so opinionated I would say "my work here is done", but i just can't resist giving my 2 cents worth!:ok:

QUOTE from Warkman: "until the day dawns (quite soon now) when the jobs won't be there for overpaid militants."

I'm thinking you're not cabin crew then???

I find that hard to believe for just an admin job. I'm in a front line operational position and that is about what we get per month after tax with no overtime, so I doubt an "office admin" bod would get that much, they must do something a little more important to earn that much - not disputing what you are saying, I just find it hard to believe.

I have noticed though on the recuritment pages of the intranet that the jobs that are not airline related, such as the IT/Media/Accounting etc jobs pay substantially more as they have to pay wages in accordance with those industries to attract the good staff, however when you compare those to the Airline based jobs, the pay levels soon drop across the board. Example I saw a year or so ago - Onboard Media Specialist :- Role - to produce the little Virginified titles that are before/after/between the films on the IFE - salary £45k.
Ops Duty Manager :- Role - day to day management of the whole of VS's flying program, making decisions on a/c swaps, delay resolution etc etc - salary £30k.
Now who's job would you say has the most responsiblility and is more important ?. The low wages are a problem across the whole of the airline industry not just with c/crew. The only people that get paid a decent amount is the pilots and the very senior management.

VS69,
I've been thinking for years that the problem with the service on VS is the age of the crew. Many are too young, have very little experience dealing with the public and forget that flying for an awful lot of the population can be a very stessful experience, and hence I think thats why some of the crew end up in stand off situations with passengers over silly little things such as being asked for a glass of water. Now that VS has legally been forced to drop the upper age limit, I have noticed a few more mature junior crew members (if that makes sense) joining the ranks, and I think that in time we will end up with a healthy balance between young inexperienced crew and more mature crew members. Look at the US airlines - some of their crew are in their 60's, but they provide great service and are less likely to suffer from abuse from disgruntled pax than a young 19/20 something. Alot of good service is down to just plain good manners and knowing how to speak to people as you would like to be spoken to - a problem which from various industries seems to be a problem with the "yoof of 2day".

As you can probably tell, I am not c/crew either but I work fairly closely with you, but just remember when you are crew down you get a nice little payment for it. Spare a though for the other departments on the ground who when they are staff down (can be as many as 20+ at check-in sometimes) they get no more for it, and have twice as much work to do to try and get you guys away ontime as well as putting up with the sh!t from pax.

With regards to your payrise, all we got was 2% thats it - no discussions nothing, 2% like it or lump it.

We have no union to fight for us, as ground staff we are all in the same boat, engineers/office staff/airport staff etc and the problem we get is that someone who does just do office work, who could do the same job in any old office comes to work for an airline that gives them 7 free flights a year as well as everything else so they think it is great and when we have tried to vote in the union, they all reject it so us front line airport staff have to suffer as a result.

Just remember that next time you think things are bad - they are not much better on the ground either. The only bonus we get (if you can call it that) is that we get to spend most nights in our own beds at home unless we are working nightshift !!.

:\

Some very good points , however. just one question if you ever did get union recogition, would you accept the first deal on the table ,now that you finally after all these years had someone, supposedly fighting your corner ,or would you negotiate!!!!!! I suspect the latter. Also a nice little earner it isnt ,being crew down and at least on the ground the customers have somewhere to cool down if feeling disgruntled after 20 mins or so at check in they are out of your face. With cabin crew they have nowhere to go so 5 pound upto 100 pound before tax is something i would do without and have either a a full crew or better product rather than the hassle of 9 + hours with disgruntled customers. Also earlier a comment was made saying it would be so much better recruiting cabin crew of a more mature age , with which i could not agree more however on the basic as it is now , many 30+ have financial commitments and simply could not manage on the poor salary!!!!! so its a very vicious circle. Unfortunatley we do have very young immature crew who do simply believe good customer service is simply turning up for the flight, on a weekend !!!!!! who hopefully (Im very naive) with good css and fsms can be wittled down.

Leezyjet - Union
 

Hello,

I used to be heavily involved in the Union at my old job and I do believe (unless it has changed) that Union representation has to be invited. In other words you have to ask them into your work place to be represented by them if you currently do not have representation; they are not aloud to approach you in the first instance. So if you’re looking for Union representation, it might be worth looking on the internet to find one you like and invite them in.

union
 

Kieranlgw. Which union were you involved with if you don't mind me asking? The T&G is very active at the moment at most UK airports and do not wait for invitations to approach cabin crew. Although an invitation now and then would be more than welcome.

Hi, sorry to divert the conversation away from the pay deal.
Lately, I have had a pretty bad run of lazy, demotivating, and arrogant Onboard Managers. I am just getting pretty sick and tired of it. I am sick of slaving away, and not being recognised for it, and more importantly when I ask for feedback, I am told that I should subtly kiss up to CSSs more. Saying to the CSSs how lovely my pax in my section are, and how I joined a couple up to Flying Club... Or promoting our new routes.

Anyway, I am fealing really disheartened by all of this, and am not sure how much longer i can put up with it, especially considering the rediculously low salary I am receiving.

I know how to do my job well. Been flying for two years now. My onboard SEP is by the book, and always make suggestions on how to make the service more efficient.

I'm hoping someone has some advice, or can share their thoughts on this subject.

But there have been some amazing CSSs and FSMs! If you are one of those.... THANK YOU!

xxx

With regards to "lazy" onboard managers, I have to say my other half comes home many a day saying exactly what you said, feeling that ultimately hard work is not recognised by managers. What to do? I wouldn't work for a company that obviously cares so little about individuals, which is demonstrated by the total disregard cabin crew managers (both on board and in the office) have about recognising people who work hard, set exactly standards and deliver.

I would like to think Most CSS's/FSM's will recognise good efforts without being prompted or a$$ kissed -indeed when you do see someone trying to ki$$ ass/suck up or saying, I have done this, I have done that - it makes some managers cringe - no I in team - indeed it could have a negative impact on the observations made by the manager for your performancemonitoring.

When someone who is just getting on with their job to a high standard and requested some feedback once at the beginning of the day and never says another word about it- I believe that is more favourable to I did this I did that crew. This would be my personal advice to anyone out there who is looking to self improve. There are other things you can do in your own time too - those with the drive and determination will figure out what these are - ask an on board manager if they have ime sure they will lend some guidance or better still your assigned teaming manager re personal development.

I personally feel 2 years is not a long time in the role of junior, some people are down the back for 4-5 years before promotion, it's only in recent years that some people have been promoted to senior quickly (fast-tracked). I personally believe that fast tracking isn't necessarily the safest thing in the world and time spent down the back and knowing everything inside out is duly noted and when someone does exceed or is outstanding it is worth making a note of it.

The role of the FSM/CSS is demanding and having time to complete performance monitoring on the crew is one of the duties which unfortunately has to come 2nd to everything else such such as customer service (though I do agree if it's not done then you are not happy in turn customer service not as good etc etc).

My tip would be ask for feedback once and just do the job to the best of your ability, try and be positive (hard sometimes I know) because more than ever it shows when you are not during a service and then things like hero forms, nice pax comments about you to onboard managers and customer services dont come back which all help

Your comment regarding making suggestions on how to make the service more efficient shows willing but remember sometimes this may put someone's nose out of joint (are you telling me how to do my job ??) not always but it's just a thought - all depends in the manner it's done I suppose - diplomacy and CRM and all that but someone may take exception to a junior telling a CSS how FSM how to do things better - sometimes better to just do what is asked of your manager of the day who is probably very busy.

Now to finish this off, now imagine trying to get feedback and performance monitoring on a flight e.g. a 600 with one less crew member (as per current pay proposal) where the CSS/FSM's will be even more busy - it will probably be even harder than it is now !!

Chin up & keep on trying

p.s. there are some odd balls out there that love having their derrières kissed but fortunately I think they are far and few between. Most recognise and issue praise where it is deserved.

Flip side of the coin...
 

In response to Just Want to Fly,
I am a CSS and wanted to reassure you that hard work is never overlooked. Just because a CSS/FSM hasn't been able to give you as much feedback as you'd like, it doesn't mean you have been misjudged by an arrogant or lazy onboard manager. If you take a look at the critiques, the standard of performance required to be scored as "meets" is very high. I think that many crew have unrealistic ideals as to what denotes "meets" and what therefore is deemed "exceeds" and "outstanding." On top if this, crew are expecting to be promoted fairly quickly and when this doesn't happen it makes people demotivated. Think realistically about how/where your performance fits into the performance critiques, is what you are doing really an "exceeds" or are you just doing your job and therefore meeting what is required of you. Often some crew are not meeting what is required, but get scored as "meets" which is incorrect. There is a stigma attached to "NI" and to be honest, is anyone really that good at their job 100% of the time?
To put things into some sort of perspective, I was CC for 3.5 years before being promoted to Senior. The promotion system was slightly different but it wasn't unusual to be "down the back" for 3 years.
What I would say is that your FSM/CSSs have a great deal of experience and a very good idea as to who/what makes a good crew member so trust their judgement.
There is a fine line between being pro active and being too pushy, so ensure your efforts are seen as they are intended and not to your detriment.
Finally, have realistic views of timescales. It is unusual to be promoted so quickly especially if you have not flown before.
Don't be disheartened, I like to think I am good at my job, as you consider yourself to be, and it's a CSSs job to recognise people like you.
Happy flying!

so when is it judgement day? when is the vote in?

Glamour girl, if you are in the union, you will know when the vote is in. If not, I suggest you get yourself in the union.

I'm in the union and I don't know when the vote is in! I had it in my head that it was the 25th, but am clearly wrong there otherwise we'd surely have heard the result by now!

Does anyone know when the result will be made known?

The ballot papers had to be in no later than wednesday 29th August so we should hear something within the next couple of hours.
I have just spoken to someone who flew with a union rep and was told that it will probably be a NO as they can check the incoming ballots and the NO percentage was looking a lot higher although there had been a lot of YES's.

Its a no
 

According to cc.com its a NO vote. So good news at last :D

Its time for our union reps to come back to the crew now and ask us what we want from the pay offer.

Good point back2front, question is, just how much do we think we should get??? Personally I feel we should get a decent rise to our basic, 10% to 15%. Also we should be getting better delay pay, long range payments for doing trips such as Narita and Jo'burg. The allowances we get for some trips are absolutely pathetic. If we got more money per trip then i'm sure the sickness level will decrease, thus 'increasing productivity levels'. Lets hope its a no!!!;)

No vote
 

Definately need a decent increase on basic pay

plus

#50.00 per sector trip pay

increase on allowances in certain ports.

NO decrease in crew levels, if they do take off crew then the service should be adjusted accordingly i.e. get rid of the stupid 3rd (sandwich) service on west coast usa routes.

No more standby blocks as it was the companies choice to introduce monthly standby so why should we suffer if they have made a mistake.

As you said increasing allowances and trip pay would definately improve sickness levels and therefore decrease the need for extra standy blocks.