How about reducing basic salary so that it makes up only 60% of total income and substantially increasing trip pay to make up the other 40%? You're then rewarded for what you fly with unnecessary sickness disappearing overnight. Everything pensionable.

Introduce annual increments for CSS and FSM ranks of 2% a year

Allowances are not a part of salary but compensation for meals taken in the hotel. If the average price of lunch from the restaurant menu is only $15 then a lunch allowance at that hotel is only $15.

No vote!
 

92% voted no according to the texts doing the rounds. :)

Shanwick, you make some good points.

Now we have voted no, the union finally have to start talking to us, otherwise we are going to keep going back to a no. I dont know about anyone else, but if we are not willing to stike then we should not even be on the pitch. The CC89 reps are going to have to ensure that the are representing us and not themselves. Whilst I dont agree with some of the tone of recent emails, I think there is something to be said for the union/company relationship and the financial benefits of the reps role. I think we need clarity.

I would vote yes for a substantial increase in pensionable trip pay (£90 -£100 FSM, £80-90 CSS etc). 2% salary increase and no changes to air share/crew compliment. Our service is pretty terrible at the moment and any lose of crew will further impact this. By the way I also think reduction of crew member was a cynical way of reducing crew down payments, something I was surpirised the union did not pick up on.

Lets get behind the union with a strong voice of what we realistically want and with the clear principal that we will strike if the company do not take us seriously. The union have to realise that the people they are negotiating against are getting big bonuses for keeping our pay low, and need to play hard ball rather than go along with what they are being told. I certainly wont be backing the union if they communicate to us in the previous manner of, and hopefully we have seen the back of Brian Boyd!

Saz, you also make some very good points. We have to keep things realistic people and 10-15% is never going to happen. As stated earlier its the conditions that i didnt agree with, and after speaking to alot of crew online they felt the same.. I certainly would be happy with an increase on basic pay, even of 2%, with an substantial increase on trip pay, and allowances. I havent met any crew who prefer this monthly standby, and its causing alot of upset. Morale is lower than ever, but be strong and support the union as much ever!!!!!

Vote
 

Ditto me. I am happy to see pay go into trip pay rather than this 4.8% and sell the family silver for not much in return. Though it would have to be substantial and pensionable at least £90 for CSS.

I have always been a moderate but go along with now taking a tough stance. I will continue to vote no until the company and union get this right. How they could have tried to sell us reduction in airshare and a crew member is quite beyond me. I think we need much more open commmunictaion from the union even if it means publishing all the minutes, rosters and payments.

Personally feeling down and fed up with everything that has gone on. Not sure our management team are that hot, just seem to be overladen from the top with even more managers and yet crew down, catering, carmen, standby blocks still big issues.

When I heard that the union and the company had come to an agreement, I was excited, and glad. Now it seems that we have been sold short. Now that I have seen the offer, I am once again disheartened, and frustrated. This new ballot was also conveniently scheduled to go over the proposed strike period.

Is 10-15% realistic? how much did the flight crew get last time?

One thing I have noticed, is that the standard of new crew is getting lower and lower, and younger and younger. Many of my friends who fly for other airlines, wouldn't even consider coming to VS, because they all know how bad the money is, particularly for juniors. We need to atract more experienced (flying & life). The only way is by offering a good salary package, not just frills like staff travel.

As I type this post, I presume that the ballots are now finished being counted....

I wonder if this forum is read by any of our illustrious leaders?

Illustrious leaders?????

That is our problem, our so called leaders are pretty useless. I dont think this will be resolved until we have a change of leadership (Has any one met our director).

We need better pay (Realistic I agree, but not present deal) , better service, better product. Other airlines have left us standing in every respect.

We need to start to communicate to amicus/unite reps but not sure they are listening to us.

The problem we have is that you cant discriminate against people who are sick, obviously if there is a pattern ie off every sat night , then the company will look at it, but legally you cant give someone better trips, more entitlement to requests etc because they havent been off sick ! The flight crew did get a substantial increase but once again we need to be realistic. I heard the other day the age for recruitment has dropped to 18, which i think is terrible, we need older crew with more life experience surely. We seem as a company to be going backwards in everything we do at the mo, and its at such a crucial time with all these low cost airlines offering london to jfk for 89.00 . The company as its got bigger is falling apart and linda "the destroyer " moir seems to be right in the middle of it !!!!!!!!

Statement released by Brian Boyd on MyAmicus:

92% rejected the offer
70.5% of all ballot papers dispatched returned

He goes on to say he has informed the company who may wish to revisit thier offer, but he will be issuing ballot papers for industrial action.


Too be honest even a 4.8% increase without the 'add ons' does not reflect what we are worth.

We should be getting a pay INCREASE whereas 4.8% is only inflation.

We have worked VERY hard to get to this point.

Lets ask for MORE

Like I said 10%

Pilots got 10% PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!

If they dont want to give it to us

Let them lose even more when we go on strike!!!:eek:

many thanks
 

hey guys and girls,
think this is probably the best place to post this-
just wanted to say many thanks to the VS crew who I flew with as an SLF out of DXB on 15th June.
I had just come off working a LOS trip 2 hours before and hadn't slept or eaten for 27 hours....
the crew were fantastic, upgraded me, brought extra blankets, pillows, ice cream.... cannot thank enough, allowed me to fall asleep in a heap and wake up smiling in LHR.
Thank you so much guys, and if you're ever on an EK flight, the extra pillows are yours! x

Errr, no we didn't! Think we got around 5%ish per year and are soon to go into pay negotiations again. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what we got, you are fighting for your pay deal. We are in different jobs with different terms and conditions and different pay. The flight deck pay deal is irrelevant. Hold out for what you believe you are worth and best of luck.

Last thread makes several good points, especially holding out.

For the first time we have the chance to get what we are worth. We have to vote Yes to strike action and ensure we dont blink. The company cannot afford for us to strike and they will find money to ensure their crew keep the operation running. The last flight deck pay negotiation showed this if nothing else.

This is now brinkmanship

Spot on. We cannot blink now, this is as you say brinkmanship and we must communicate what we want in the very clearest terms by taking seriously our next step . Looks like Linda Moir has seriously overplayed her hand and we must keep focus and ensure the vote for a strike is again in the 90%.

Good on our pilot friend for the support. There will be many who now worry about their jobs and try to dissuade us.:)

Hopefully our union reps will realise that we are just as important to the operation as the FD. Without us there are no flights!

Hey guys and gals ,
Firstly well done on the vote nows your time --take it :D, and secondly if it comes to it I'll see you on the picket line.
Regards
A bus driver ;)

sazdv1,

There are plently of employee groups essential to keeping operations running.

My mate operates the "honeycart"--without him the operation would fast grind to a halt!

Many thanks to all the non-crew on here who are offering us their support!

Sazdv1, a bit of an embarrassing comment in my opinion! Yes without us there would be no flights, but same goes for the flight deck, the engineers, the baggage handlers, the gate staff, the reservations staff, the aircraft cleaners, the caterers, the tug drivers, the check in staff, the security agents, the operations staff, the crewing staff...

do you see where I'm going with this...?

:ugh:

Point taken

In this context I am talking about here and now and the crew are in the spotlight. If we strike we stop the operation just like the FD, engineers etc.

We are all a team, and it is terrible that our colleagues in other departments aren't unionised. I don't understand why that is. It takes a great many number of people who are essential to the organisation, for the succesfull running of the airline.


We Serve, Sanitize, Save, Sacrifice, Sell, Socialize! We Strike!

We must stand strong and so far it seems to be working. The posting by Lyell on The Verb Online (3 weeks ago) suggested that it was case closed and everyone was happy. Oh how they underestimated us and that makes us so much stronger.
I'm not sure about 10-15%, thats an awful lot. If truth be known I would have accepted the last pay deal had it not been for airshare ("you will get it monthly in your salary") errrr, isnt that my pay increase? and the SBY and loss of crew member.
Its quite embarrassing what a Junior earns. Other airlines may have similar basics but they make it up in other ways. Why are we the only airline that stands out for not doing this?

Their insulting offers mean I am looking for more now.
 

What you're saying in short "sign-it-too-your-room" is the pay rise without any strings attached (dont forget the not backdating to April). Or rather the pay maintenance to keep in constant - in line with inflation.

I think that every time the company places an insulting offer, it just means that our requirements should get more and more. They could off nipped this in the bud with their last offer with no strings. But now I am thinking we have the unity now to really go for the kill, a killer of a deal - It has taken this long to get here.

But there's a part of me that says, NO !... for messing me about as you have done so far I now want more ! - I am no longer happy with just a pay maintenance (RPI) I want a pay maintenance PLUS a pay increase. so 10% in the first year and RPI for the next 2 years. That's not much its only a circa 5.1% increase (I mean real increase after the cost of living has gone up- RPI circa 4.9).... Or maybe I want hourly duty pay when away ontop of trip pay- like some of the other airlines do to make up for the poor basic and the delays.

Anyone else feel like this ? or is it just me who is now looking for more than I would have initially been content with -

The cabin crew just got stronger !

p.s. other departments all deserve more too - get unionised ! (if such a word exists)

Hi ya, does anyone know when it comes to ballot action for strike does the percentage of the vote have to be more than the 92% or is it still the majority !!!!! does that make sense ?

Quote; "We are all a team, and it is terrible that our colleagues in other departments aren't unionised. I don't understand why that is."

Probably because not all of us feel the need to have some faceless rep representing us and coming up with deals that haven't consulted us individually on. Personally if any company does not pay me the going rate........I'll leave. No matter what deal the union comes up with in negotiation it isn't going to please everybody.

Can't really comment on your levels of pay as I don't keep an eye on CC pay around the industry. There has been a few comments about route allowances though and having seen the new scales I'd say your doing rather well. Most places seem to be around the GBP100 - 120p/n. This is considerably more than the rest of us get when travelling on company business. I cannot believe that you cannot survive an overnight stop on that level of expenses, which of course is meant for meals and small out of pocket expenses only.

Allowances etc.
 

TS - I think the highest allowance issued is £90p/n so once we have purchased meals and out of pockets expenses and then converted the US$ back to UK£ there is very little to actually bring back with us to help with mortgages etc. Although out allowances might be a bit more than most when on company business I know that their basic salary will also be much higher.

You also have to remember that the allowances are not considered by banks when we go to get a mortgage so trying to get a mortgage on £11,500 basic is laughable when we have to be based at the most 2hr from London in order to get into work whilst on standby. These allowances are also not pensionable so come 65 most crew (who want to make a career out of flying) will have a very small pension to survive on.

If you look at Qantas London base they are clearing over £1500 p/m, easyjet over £1600 p/m, B.A.quite often over £2000 p/m. Air New Zealand stay at the same hotel as Virgin crew in LAX and get nearly US$100 more for the same amount of time at the hotel. Maybe Kiwi's eat more or something??

At Virgin I am only clearing around £1200 made up of basic, allowances and sector pay.

What we need is a big increase in basic pay and sector pay. I will definately be voting yes for strike action (as it will give the company a big kick up the a*se) and no to any pay deal that doesn't put us in line with the other majors. And I will vote no to any deal that has conditions attached such as removal of crew, loss of airshare etc.

No doubt the next offer will be the same with one of the conditions removed. They will try and drag this on for as long as possible. The pilots had 13 ballots I believe before they got what they wanted.

If we stick together too we can achieve a positive outcome.

And you echo every crew member that I have spoken to so far. We always have a chat on board and I try to gauge the general census of how people feel; what you have just said sums it up perfectly. I can really see a strike happening which is quite sad, not from a crew point of view but from a management point if view.

PAY
 

I am so glad that so many people are in support of us guys sticking together in these current pay negotiations. It is embarassing to compare our VS pay with other airlines doing the same job. I hope it doesn't end in strike but if the company do not give us a fair deal that we can survive on it looks very likely!

Lots of people say why did we take the job if we knew the pay?
It is not made clear at interview that our pay will never increase within our rank even after years of service unless we take promotion.

Also all trips should be paid equally... A 2 night LAS is not even worth getting out of bed for whereas a 1 night ORD is fantastic money. Surely we should be paid for how long we are away, sector length and it should be in our banks at home so we can actually get a mortgage!

TO ALL CREW OUT THERE: Vote NO NO NO until we get an acceptable and reasonable offer!!!

Just discovered this on amicus website!
 

Virgin cabin crew reject pay deal


31 August 2007
In a consultative ballot, over 2000 members of the Virgin Atlantic cabin crew have overwhelmingly rejected Virgin's latest pay offer.
92% of the staff rejected the deal and Unite is now preparing to hold a strike ballot. Unite will be meeting with Virgin Atlantic management next week in an attempt to resolve the outstanding issue of pay and staffing.
Unite National Officer, Brian Boyd says, "Unite is now preparing to ballot its members on industrial action at Virgin Atlantic. The company's latest offer still falls short of our members aspirations and they have sent a clear message to the company that they are prepared to act. Unite will be working tirelessly on behalf of its members to reach an acceptable conclusion.”

The Managers are out in Force!!!
 

Hi All,
It has taken 3 rejected Pay Offers and only now have the management taken notice. Is it just me that thinks this has been a MASSIVE WAKE UP CALL TO VIRGIN???!
I agree with the previous posts in that the next offer will probably be the 4.8% without the strings attached although I don't think they are going to budge on the standby or guaranteed weekend off. I also think they might do something with the trip pay, ie instead of 15% increase in year 2, they will split it, so half now and half next year.
I think we are in a stronger position than ever and we must stay united. WE MUST VOTE YES TO STRIKE ACTION OTHERWISE WE WILL LOSE EVERYTHING WE HAVE GAINED SO FAR.

VOTE FOR STRIKE ACTION AND URGE YOUR COLLEAGUES TO DO THE SAME.

A pilots perspective
 

Hi guys,

First off, I do think you deserve more money, and the deals on the table thus far, I believe, have been testing the waters. Bear in mind these are pay negotiations not pay demands.

Having read all the posts, there are a lot of inaccuracies, particularly with regard to the pilot work force pay deals over the last few years. We gave away many parts of our original contract to get to where we are. It has to be a game of give and take. Take time to talk to the guys on a flight or whilst downroute, most of us are behind you.


back2front: You need to compare apples with apples. Speaking to a colleague downroute the other day, he mentioned he had several C/C friends in BA. Their package is different to yours in many ways. For instance they don't get private healthcare, LHR longhaul C/C can request only 2 trips a year, (& can't swap trips) and their concessions are extremely limited compared to ours - that are perhaps the best in the industry.


747jumboboi: This part of our "pay package", as I'm sure you know, are subsistence allowances. It is for food and drink whist downroute, and is based on the prices in the hotel we stay at. Obviously the menu is cheaper in LAS than ORD. This is non negotiable, and has to be approved by the Inland Revenue in the UK. That said, the IR are currently looking again at how these allowances are paid to every airline in the UK!!

As difficult as it is, try not to get too emotional, and bide your time. The strike vote will have management on the back foot now. Good luck

PS. jbflyer can we dispense with the large type face and capitals/underlining?

Tags, thank you for your support the FD I have just flown with were brilliant. It makes such a difference to know you are all behind us.

I just hope our union reps and especially Brian Boyd are behind us to the same extent, as I am sure we will need to show a great deal of nerve and be prepared to vote yes to strike and be prepared to carry out the outcome. I am worried speaking to one rep that Boyd is a mavrick!

Anyone been on Strike before?
 

Dear Mr Boyd,
I am all for a strike, but can we please make sure it's on a day when I'm not flying to LOS or NBO!!! Really not liking the idea of being stuck out there! My preferences would be SFO, MBJ or ANU, but would be willing to settle for a EWR or ORD. I'll email you my roster. Thanks, IJWTF:}


Has anyone ever been on strike before at their previous airline? What actually happened, and how did it all eventuate?

Eg. If a strike is planned for the 20th. And I fly to NBO on the 19th, obviously there would be no flight operating LHR-NBO on the 20th, so I would therefore be stuck in NBO... Does that make sense?

Any info from crew who have gone on strike before would be greatly appreciated....

This is my 200th post... Woo Hoo!

I just want to fly...
 

One night extra will be worth it when we get what we want from the company so if you do get an extra night use the extra nights allowances to to do something that you don't normally get time to do.

The next step is for the union to ballott members on strike action. Hopefully this will be a yes vote as it will send a clear message to the company that we have had enough.

Then the union set a date. At this point the company will not want the press/newspapers /passengers getting wind of a strike date so would not be surprised if an meeting was called a deal worked out.

Reply to IJWTF
 

One day strikes are not effective. It would have to be over a series of two consecutive days otherwise it would be too easy to cover the flights. This cannot be half hearted otherwise Virgin will seek out our weakness.

Virgin
 

Hiya Guys,

Sorry to bother you, but i just have a quick question to ask. Do you think its a big deal if i did like 4 or 5 spelling mistakes on my on-line application.

Thx!

Speling mistaches
 

can't you go back in and edit your application? I would imagine 1 or 2 would be acceptable but 4 or 5??

The thing is you cant edit the application questions once theve been submited. However everything was grammatically correct aside from 4 spelling mistake. Really worried!



Cheers!

Languages
 

Question guys,

Are PA's made in English and in the language of the destination.e.g Spanish on flights to Havana,Hindi to Mumbai,Arabic to Dubai etc or are they only made in English.

Cheers!

DEL/BOM/HKG/PVG/NRT National Crew read out Pa in there language after english PA.

Just remember guys that striking has a major impact on all aspects of the business. That airshare that you are voting for would all but vanish for the entire company if a strike goes ahead. Look at our profits for last year and see how little we made, lets be realistic here and try to see what the future woulod hold if we went to strike.

I know but...
 

SITYR - agreed that striking will be harmful to the business. Thats why we all have to stick together and vote to go on strike. The company will be forced to come back with a decent offer.

We have come this far and need to stick together. If we don't the company will laugh at us for being weak and not standing our ground.

As for profits its my firm belief that some clever accounting has been done. SRB is known to move money around to offset his tax liabilty, its an old but clever tactic that many business do. Of course they will shift profit from VS into Virgin Nigeria and other loss making Virgin branded companies, that way they don't pay tax.

I know yields are low on seats nowdays but no one will convince me the company aren't making profits unless a full and transparent audit is done. I heard the flight deck managed this during their pay negotions, again the company said they had no money, but the audit revealed otherwise. Can anyone from F/D confirm or deny this?

If its true then unite/amicus should be arranging to do this also.