If you vote to regret strike action, then throw away your union cards, de recognise Unite and save yourselves £10 a month. As a voice, you will have lost.
The union struggle is a struggle. It is not about who is representing you, it it about the union of workers. If you honestly asked every crew member if they thought their pay was excellent, very good, good, average, poor or very poor, where do you think they would put it on the scale?
With a £2 billion turnover, Virgin must be doing something right. Do the maths on that figure. How many people do Virgin ship round the world each year? Don't pull crew off flights to finance the pay deal. Make the customers pay for it. Put £5 on the cost of each ticket. Pay deal financed. That amount of money would not stop customers buying the product, because it is a great product and worth £5/head increase in cost, to get the crew back onside.
Then engineering and other ground staff do the same. Thats a whole £15 per pax.
Now I await all you business experts to coach me on how this just would not work!

Dear orangelitebulbtech
 

We do not expect any support from any department and it's very difficult that we all work under one roof.

It's a real shame that this situation has got out of hand and feel it's only the management that have themselves to blame.

Why should I leave the company after all the years I have put in. !Anyway we have got 4.8% and other departments 2% so is that fair...? Also why has the company given us so much..? ....is the company agreeing that there is a problem with our wages by giving us 4.8%.

I'm sure there is a light at the end of the tunnel....it may not be orange but it may be bright.

I'm sure everything will be ok in the end anyway pay talks start with the pilots soon, so may be you to should join a union.

Dolly :p

Dolly,

I left after nearly ten years and it was hard, but unfortunatly unless people leave the company will never get the message.

Anyway, its good to see you youve had a minor victory, lets hope they are as 'generous' with the other departments.

:)

Virgin Dolly,

I don't think you have got 4.8% as you haven't accepted it. If you do strike, I'm pretty sure that figure will change as the company surely won't be able to afford it anymore

What %age would make you say yes?

Dear orangelitebulbtech
 

Your last few words were "cabin crew on 50% less pay than their competitors"...Well you have shot yourself in the foot....

Yes, the company have succeeded in recruiting all these new crew but look what they have created now....possible strike...! all to save a few bucks $$$.

A big shake up in management is needed and a few heads are on the block, lets see what happens in the next few weeks.

Dolly :ok:

penguinpoo (do I have to cal you that?lol)

I'm a yes voter. But to answer your question, it seems that crew would accept the 4.8% if other areas were addressed such as delay pay, crew down, trip pay etc. Our basic isnt much different any other airline (except managers), but the other airlines beat us to the bank because of how their salary is made up.
I'm certain that sickness would not be as high either, which is pretty bad on CCs part really, but money does talk.

Virgin Dolly...

The 50 % comes from a previous post by someone else on this thread who i assume is virgin cabin crew and probably a colleague of yours...... shown above.

Assuming a virgin new starter is on 10k a year and the person talks about BA earning 10k a year more then using primitive maths i came up with the 50% figure...... and the whole basis of my argument......... and shows that i havent 'shot myself in the foot' as you say?:ugh:

:confused: i have an idea :confused:

lets tie all cabin crew into a 5 year deal, pay them 5% and if they leave before that date they pay it all back.. that way they commit to the company...

or give the 'waste of space/base' back, sell what we dont lease and give that to the crew as a payrise.

im only joking !!! but the crew HAVE changed in past 10 years i have been here, there was a time when we all worked for the same company, making 'virgin' the best airline to fly... but that has all gone !!!

BUT what do the crews have to work with, aircraft with old fashion ife, the upper class brand has been stripped right back to a few packs of polo's and a silver pen. with cabins that look old and tired. crew down on every flight. the list goes on and on BUT !!!!!!

i do feel for you all, and i belive if you all stick together you will get something back, but as past posts have said a union is a union and you do not have that, only 50% and that is not enough


but remember, if you want other depts to surport you, don't bring in pay from other depts like cabin tech's
some of us are in this company for life!!!! and what you do will hurt our families too!!!#

good luck
:ok::ok::ok::ok:

Dear penguinpoo
 

Kids now in bed so I'm on a roll.....
Something to think about for the future or is it not so far off..?
I'm in this forum to talk about our pay and how we can try and sort out this mess so here goes,

I think trip pay should go up big time and worked out on how long your trip is.
Seven hour flight £50, New York ( for CC member)
Eight hour £70
Nine hour £80 Miami
Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.
Make crew work for their money by giving incentives by working these longer flights.
Big Issue. crew down payments up to £50 for one crew member, £100 for two and £150 for three, then the company would have to get the figures right. It's a insult to pay £5 per crew member down.

But keep the basic pay the same......Yes I may get a few posts for saying that. But in my last posts I talked about basic and flight pay being put together as one whole wage.

Also introduce back to backs where you do two New Yorks or a New York/Washington crew would earn £100 + £70 for UK hotel for allowances and given four days off after trip. It would be a six day trip but one less journey to work.
Crew travel a long way these days so again give them a incentive. These back to backs are quick but financially rewarding to the company and the crew. You would see Crew sickness go down to the minimum.

Being paid £10 for a almost 5 hour delay is a insult and should be increased to £50 at least anyway how often does this happen. So a increase wouldn't be that bad but it would be saying thank you for working these extra hours.

I'm I asking for to much or I might be barking mad....think about it..!

This increase would see your basic with your flight pay together increase and crew be given an incentive to come to work and earn a decent wage.
It's a better deal and I think crew might like it..! Better flight pay, an incentive to come to work and together with your basic makes a good wage.

By giving crew 4.8 % on their low basic was a bad move for the company and other departments who only get 2%.,this has already divided the company as a whole.

I think a big change is needed to the whole structure of crews pay and should be look at soon.

Am I dreaming or is this a possible solution.?

Ta, Ta, Dolly :ok:

Jnr light bulb tech:
Now that was lovely posting :D

You're right, crew have changed.
I'm not about to bleat on about the good old days, but its clearly a generation thing. I'm sure other companies are experiencing the same thing too. Some just dont understand how bloody good they have it...in my day.............no I wont!

Virgin Dolly.

We need a place where we can put these feelings to the union, but where?

Virgin C/CStrike action
 

You know what im really fed up to the back teeth of all this strike action rubbish and ill tell you why.
Today I over heard conversations from your new crew who themselves have only been with the company a few weeks discussing the poss strike action and how they feel they should be given a higher salary.
You can imagine how sadend I was to hear this from new people within our company jumping on the band wagon of a very silly campaign run by some what mis guided people.
I dont mean to sound harsh but come on ladies and gents you knew the salary at the start , you knew the perks and you had the choice of whom to go work for your the role models for the new guys and look what you have turned them into!!
Take the resposibility for your actions and do not make our airline into a BA mark 2 (where staff run the airline by millitant action).
Your risking so much as you know the airline will not survive 7 days of strike action, and your actions will have a direct result on both staff in the air and on the ground by creating possible job cuts.
So while your sipping on your G and T's down route think of the other poor Ba**ards who work within this airline , who are panicing because we do not know if we will have a job in the run up to xmas.
Lets face it if you dont like the job or the comapany or the money isnt enough then GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!!
Our business isnt the best paid but hey we all knew that and I make my money up by using the benefits etc.
Virgin doesnt need silly people just fighting on for fighting's sake listern to your union reps etc belive me they know best.
Leave the negotiating to them and stick to your chicken or beef and let the rest of us sleep well in knowing our jobs will be there in the morning.

A VERY PROUD VAA EMPLOYEE

Dear sign -it- to -your- room
 

Many thanks for you reply.....

Virgin Dolly

Have read a few of your posts and they really are beginning to annoy me!!

The real issue here is that we need to look at the bigger picture - the company, regardless of what you believe, will NOT offer another deal. It is not going to happen.

Accept 4.8% or strike and get whatever the want to offer us. Your suggestions are irrelevant at this stage. And they are flawed. Increased trip pay to encourage people to do trips they don't like?? Firstly, it your job to do those trips. Secondly, following your train of thought, then surely those short trips would be poorly crewed due to sickness as you don't earn as much as the longer ones - why do a NYC for £50, when you can do a MIA for £80??

As crew I am really disturbed by how insular we have become - not everything revolves around us. I am also upset at the bickering between depts - what does that achieve?

These post can continue indefinitely - however there really is only one issue to discuss as the Terms of the pay deal will not change - that is, they will not increase.

I think its about time we all started to look at what is on the table and make a decision on that basis. The time for speculative comments about what we want is over, and if you believe that your needs have not been met, then that is an issue to be brought up with the Union, who backed the last offer.

I for the record, am very happy with my current package, and my current T & C's of employment. I am aware that I am in the minority. I would however hope that those who are not, use their voices accordingly. The time to make stances without SERIOUS repercussions for all VAA depts is over. Its too late to say "I want, I want".

The only statement now should be "Yes" or "No" - and that needs to be thought about very carefully.

Virgin C/CStrike action
 

Finaly I hear some sense, good advice!!

Virgin Dolly......

Wheres the witty reply to my last post....... or has the effects of the 2nd bottle of wine taken its toll?:D

jcdcon........ well said!

jcdcon - 'I think its about time we all started to look at what is on the table and make a decision on that basis.'

We have looked at the offer on the table and 60% voted no to the deal. Do you really think the union reps will come back and say 'guys we are going to ask you to vote again on the same deal' they would be laughed at by the majority of crew (60% who have said no)

The only thing left now is:

a - the company come back with a better offer that brings us in line with other airlines

b - we vote to go on strike and wait and see if the company comes back with a better offer.

Was talking to some f/d crew last night and they said 'you guys have to hold out for a better deal. We got 49% by voting to strike'

We need to stand up to the company too. If one group of employees can do it (pilots) then so can other employees.

The percentage that voted no was not the majority of the crew, it was the majority of the union members who bothered to vote. It was actually closer to 30% of the crew. There's a big difference between those two numbers.

Just to get a better picture can any of you gals and boys who are CC tell me what amount of expensess you recive on an avarage month?

VS LHR you hit the nail on the head.. 30% of the crew in voted no deal

How about a %(how much would it take?) payrise on basic pay and scrap expensess??

Performance and loyalty bonus for all?? could improve crew down numbers

Virgin Dolly,

At this stage I am not going to go thru the why,s and whats of going on strike or not going on strike.....BUT, you said....

Who likes doing a Miami or a Orlando so give the crew incentives.

CC might not like doing MCO,s and MIA,s just like there are aspects of my job I dont like doing but I have to do them with no incentive. I certainly dont think CC should get an incentive to fly to a destination because they dont like it. Its part of the route structure VS have had for a long time so asking for an incentive for a particular route is barking up the wrong tree I feel.....

I have read the thread for while in utter dismay. I am a long term flyer and supporter of Virgin but I have to admit the last 4 or 5 times I have flown with VAA the service on the trips hasn't been great, at times the CC have been disinterested and have spent much of the trips in the galley talking about parties down route (granted not all CC are like this). Would I pay an extra £15 for my ticket to give CC a raise.... No, if ticket prices go up (and ticket prices end up over that of BA) to fund a deal I would take my business elsewhere, as countless posts have pointed out VAA has competition on all of its routes.

For me its simple if the wages at VAA were that bad people would leave and no-one would want to join, therefore VAA would have to increase pay levels to attract staff. You have all signed up to the wages and the terms and conditions. its simple economics.

You all want to protect seniority, but if this did not exist perhaps it would be easier to leave a company for another to get better wages rather than having to go to the bottom of the list????

When is the strike planned for does anyone know?? I am flying in december on VAA and really would rather change my flight than have my holiday plans suffer???

thanks

Jcdcon:
"I for the record, am very happy with my current package, and my current T & C's of employment. I am aware that I am in the minority. I would however hope that those who are not, use their voices accordingly. The time to make stances without SERIOUS repercussions for all VAA depts is over. Its too late to say "I want, I want".

No we are not! Thats the only positive thing at the moment. 29% of our entire crew voted to reject this offer, how many do you think will have the courage of their convictions and vote yes to strike? I'd say about half!

It may still win them the vote within the union, but looking at the bigger picture, us Yes (to take the current offer) voters far outweigh them.

Boeing boeing gone:
I dont want to sound like a know-it-all, but I think that you're gonna be okay. You shall go to the ball!

Virgin C/CStrike action
 

Belive me guys the company will not back down this has gone as far as it will go.
Just look at what is on the table now dont be silly and expect to blackmail the company into a pay rise it wont work all you will do is hurt our customers and other staff.
Stop being so selfish grow up and get on with it or get out!!

As an A340 pilot with VS, I urge you all to consider this seriously.

I really do not believe there will be a better offer coming this time around.

You should accept the 4.8%, take the back pay, look forward to RPI next year and decide as a WHOLE GROUP what you want next time round.

Your pay deal is backdated to April. That means that in 12 months time your reps will be negotiating another deal.

Either back your reps by accepting this deal, or show them the door by refusing it. You can't have it both ways.

By the way, how many of you have thought of what happens if you get stuck down route on strike days? I don't know the answer, but I think you may be on your own with no allowances or hotel room.

What ever you all decide, I hope you understand why EXACTLY you are doing it.

I try to be a silent reader of this thread and not post to many of my comments, however I am amazed and also cringing at the immaturity of some of our crew.

Comments like incentives for mco, mia for example .... everyone has flights they like dislike for different reasons but we are no longer in high school being bribed by our parents to do our schoolwork. This is the real world of employment, In every job there are tasks that employees probably hate doing. I could go on with many more examples of childish demands of the company but I dont want to start getting into a 'tit for tat' scenario. However I feel that these are the comments that are letting us down and showing the crew in a bad light.

I will say though to posters in this forum from other depts, please do not tar us with the same brush by applying all your personal comments to all of us. comments about the cars we drive, where we drink etc are not helpfull and cause more bad feeling. I can understand why you may feel crew are being selfish and some are, but you could have your depts represented by a union also, and perhaps you should, as clearly and understandably you were unhappy with your latest pay offer. As it has been pointed out many times now only around 30% of crew have voted to reject the offer, There are still a number of us who are happy to accept the latest deal, not to strike and keep everyones jobs secure and not to forget our pax happy.

This may seem terribly naive, but if only 29% of crew voted NO to the last ballot then that leaves 71% of the company who would say yes. Cant VAA conduct their own ballot or are we strictly unionised now? Seems odd that it is a such a small percentage 'ruling' the game.
What about those of us who choose not to be in a union? Cant we just accept it? lol
Feedback please :}

strike!!!!
 

im sorry to say, that after talking to the crew today, they do not have the balls to fight this!!!!

there is no unity, and no belief. you have lost out!!!!

the postman stuck together and won !!!!
cabin crew no chance!!!!

:ugh:

I knew it! I said it all along!
Daft monkeys some of them (n.b. I said some of them)

I feel frustrated for the rest of us. Please , anyone, give me some feedback on my last post!:confused:

As I have said in previous posts I will be voting No to Strike.

I have spoken to the CAB and to BALPA today and this is what they said to me. I am saying you as 1 person not we as in all us crew.

If you are downroute on a strike day and there is an Aircraft there waiting for you to take it back home and you refuse to work Virgin do not have to give you any extra allowance or provide a hotel room for you as you are refusing to work and as you are not on UK soil are not covered by UK law. It would be unlikley that they would do this as tey would need you to operate the flight once the strike wa sover. However if you did refuse to work a flight for no reason other than sickness then when you return to base Virgin have the right to cease your employment.The only way around this would be for a doctor downroute to say you were unfit to fly.

If you were downroute and there was no Aircraft for you take home then Virgin have a duty of care to consider and have to give you allowance and a hotel room. However if Virgin require you to fly elsewhere to take an Aircraft home then you will have to for e.g fly from BOS to JFK and then take a VS flight back to the UK. Again if you refused Virgin can cease your employment once back at base, Unless again you had a doctor say you were not fit to fly.

As for someone saying that we shoud get incentives to fly the less popular routes keep it real. Imangine if an Engineer said to Virgin they wanted an incentive to come to work on cold and rainy days as it was unpopular to work outside in those conditions. They would get laughed at. Its all part of the job. You just do it. Unless you can swap off it. Yes we can do that at Virgin.

Also some people saying all crew are the same were not all the same. I for 1 am not pushing for a strike. I voted YES to the last offer and will be voting NO to strike. I will like many others be offering my services to Virgin once my vote has been counted and after my union membership has been canx. I will not join the union again as I feel they have done a good job at communicating to virgin what we want. Virgin took it upon themselves to ask us. For that reason Virgin have a tiny bit more of my respect that the union do. I will be going to work on Strike day/s and I will be proving a great service to our customers that have been loyal to us.

Virgin are still our employer and they are still paying my wages they have broke no contract with me. So I will not break my contract with them. If we go on Strike it's not only us that will be affected but our Customers our business and above all the many other Virgin Atlantic staff around the world that help keep the Airline running. Think about how many people a strike will affect.

We are not BA,QF,AI,CX,AA,UA,CO,KL,SQ or any of the other major airlines we are Virgin Atlantic we are no more better that the rest but we are differant and we should all be doing whats best for Virgin Atlantic not just whats best for us. If you don't like the condition or pay at VS then have a look around at other carriers and see what they can offer you that Virgin can't if you liek what you see go there but please remember all the crew that have left and then came back to VS. I know a few.

I am going to cut and paste this as pointe dout in other posts I have 2 differant names. One Virgin CSS and the other Virgin FSM. I have nothing to hide. When I opened one I was a CSS then when I opened the other I was FSM. Simple.

When you get your ballot paper please think about what you are doing and how many people putting a cross next to the YES to strike will do and then look at the other option NO to strike and consider using it. Next time pay talks come up it will be be much better.

If you still vote YES to strike not many flights will be grounded. There are enough people out there to take flights out. Sorry if I offended anyone.
Let the insults begin. I know I will get a few.:ouch:

Take Care and happy flying.

As a Virgin pilot, I am becoming increasingly concerned at the levels of naivety being displayed here and from chatting generally with the cabin crew when on flights. It is very frustrating to see some of the comments, especially those about "incentives" to work particular routes and also, how we, the pilots, supposedly voted to strike during our negotiations a few years ago.

First of all, we never voted for industrial action. We never even got close to that situation. Anyone mentioning that we did, as some kind of incentive for the cabin crew to vote for industrial action, needs their heads examining and should be treated as the incompetents that they really are.

As a reminder to all the cabin crew who bother to read this and listen to the advice we the pilots are able to offer, we had almost total union membership. The numbers were over 90%. On top of that, we had complete faith in our union reps and they had the total backing of our union with expert advice and assistance during our negotiations with the company. On top of that, we actually showed the company how we could fund our pay increase without hurting the company.

At no stage did the negotiations break down and the membership were never balloted for industrial action. So, any cabin crew member saying that we put the company in a situation whereby they had no choice but to agree to our demands is nothing but an ignorant and naive trouble maker.

In addition to having an overwhelming majority of pilots in the ONE union, we had complete faith in our negotiators, were kept fully informed of developments through our dedicated website and proper communications, AND, when balloted on recommendations, the overwhelming majority of us returned our ballots.

By comparison, you, the cabin crew, are fragmented, have no faith in your negotiators, have almost no idea what is being offered and are, in general, displaying naivety that is cringeworthy. From what I can gather, only about 65% of you are actually in THE union [sic]. Of those 65%, only 69% of them bothered to return their ballots and of those, only 60% agreed to turn down the offer. Basic maths, which appears to be deficient in many of those calling for industrial action, is obviously not a strong point. To assist, I will try and break it down into digestible pieces:

Approx 3,500 cabin crew.
Approx 65% in union = 2,275
69% returned ballot = 1,570
60% of returned ballots voted to reject the offer = 942

So, what is clear is that 942 out of 3,500 cabin crew rejected the offer. It is all very well claiming that 60% rejected the offer but without emphasising that it was only 60% of those that bothered to return their ballots, it is meaningless. Anyway, back to basic maths:

942 out of 3,500 cabin crew = 26.9% have rejected the offer. The other 73.1% have not rejected or accepted the offer.

So, having twice voted against the recommendations by your union reps which for all intents and purposes is a vote of no confidence in them, less than 30% of you have forced the union to ballot for industrial action. It's all very well having your reps then turn around and try to save face by going to the media and claiming that they have majority support for industrial action, which in turn has an immediate impact on the company with passengers changing plans and corporate customers making alternative arrangements, but the damage has been done and the more militant cabin crew members spout on about the fact that even if those that bother to return ballots are in a majority then the rest of the membership have to come out in support.

It is a bit like watching you all walk into a well prepared ambush. You have a slight majority of cabin crew in the union and of those, most don't understand what is involved in the negotiations thanks to overdoses of Big Brother, Hello magazine, Soap Operas and a very flawed education system. On top of that, those that did attempt to take part by returning their ballots, only 60% of them, not exactly an overwhelming majority, rejected the offer without understanding the consequences. To top it all off, you have no faith in your reps but are prepared to have them lead you into possible industrial action. If you can't see the futility in all of that then you probably deserve the consequences you are likely to suffer.

The idea that you need "incentives" to work particular routes should be a total non-starter. You ask us to ignore what you do downroute with your allowances, fair enough, but don't forget that we, the pilots, see how many crew fail to report due to "sickness". Whilst we all agree that no one should come to work if genuinely sick, it is very apparent that there are significant numbers of cabin crew who abuse the system. We all know that trips that infringe the weekend have a much higher number of crew calling in "sick". Whilst it is only a minority, it is a significant minority and gives the company ammunition to use against you when negotiating crew down payments. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see how that could be abused should they agree to some of the demands being made for increased crew down payments. I won't go into details here but if you don't follow my reasoning then you really should be doing a bit more homework.

At the end of the day, most of the pilots agree that you should get better remuneration for all the training and work you do. However, we strongly advise you to go about it properly. You need to get rid of your current union and their inept negotiators/reps. Those of you who are passionate about working for Virgin Atlantic Airways and have the intelligence and commitment to do something about it, need to organise the rest of your colleagues and educate them about the benefits of belonging to a proper union that has the ability to properly represent you. Your union needs to have a track record of successful negotiation and the management of that union needs to have the credentials and expertise on board.

Once you have found that union, you need to organise your colleagues into joining that union and then electing your reps. Your reps have to have the intelligence and education necessary to understand what is involved when negotiating with a corporate team and your union has to provide any necessary training for your reps to handle these situations. You also need to have a dedicated website where your reps can keep your membership up to date with DETAILED information on what is on offer and what is being requested.

Once you have that in place and you have persuaded a significant majority of your colleagues to join this union, only then will you be in a position to start negotiating for real improvements to your terms and conditions. Of course, none of this happens overnight and takes dedication and hard work. Also, unless someone is prepared to stick their heads above the parapet and start this organisation, you aren't going to be getting anywhere.

In the meantime, it is fairly obvious that there is no real stomach for industrial action by the overwhelming majority of cabin crew even though your union and reps are harping on about rejecting the current offer and voting for strike action. It is fairly obvious that there will be a rejection of industrial action and the current offer will be accepted. All that will have been achieved is a total waste of time and some damage to revenues for the company due to the feeble threat of industrial action in the first place.

The management of the company have a lot to answer for too. It is sheer incompetence that they let the negotiations get to this stage in the first place. Whilst there is always some give and take during negotiations, many of us pilots feel that the management showed a complete lack of understanding of the dissatisfaction amongst the cabin crew and their initial offers were indeed insulting. The least they could have done after revising the offer to the current one is apologise for not getting it right the first time around. That at least would have gone a long way towards pacifying many of you and accepting the current offer whilst giving yourselves time to regroup and plan your strategies for the next round of negotiations a year or so from now.

The whole situation is a mess. Shoddy management together with naive expectations from some cabin crew and now damage to revenues thanks to the threat of industrial action which will never get that far.

There is an old saying that goes along the lines of "Better to keep quiet and let others think you are a fool rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt." Just think about that before some of you post your thoughts on here and discuss the current situation. If you are going to make claims and comparisons, make sure you do your homework. :rolleyes:

KO:D

Welcome back Oh Voice of reason!
Good old common sense with no molly coddling.

At last some voices of reason:D

Having come into contact with jnr cabin crew whilst they are on aircraft visits on the ground at LHR i am not really that surprised at the level of naivety shown by some on this thread..... some of the questions asked during these visits are mind boggling:rolleyes:

Perhaps some of these people should also consider the timescale involved in training flight deck and engineers...... it aint six weeks so perhaps the salary's involved may reflect this?.



Anyway i'm off now to work on a list of jobs i dont like doing while at work and some possible incentives the company could offer......

Erm......

1. Dont like working in the rain..... £10 ?

2. I hate working on mondays £20?

3. A wheel change...... oooh .....erm.... £50?


:D

Kasual Observer : Extremely well said Sir!!


Oh and could I get £60 and a Lieu Day for a toilet change.............

:)

Stop taking the piss boys. You promised you wouldnt do it anymore!
Its less than 30% of crew remember?:=

No problem.... stop taking the p*ss...... yes........ it'll cost you........erm shall we say £25?:oh:

Stick with your convictions and take him on.

Good luck

A glimpse into the future...........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm6VC5gdaFA

and something to lighten the mood! :)

Now is a very unsettling time for all concerned at Virgin.
Please think long and hard about the decision to strike... it will affect everyone -

* Passengers will look elsewhere to ensure they are not stranded or lose their flights
* The losses suffered by the company will no doubt result in redundancies from all areas... crew (whether they were involved or not) and ground based staff (who are not involved in the dispute at all).

Virgin is not that big an airline and historically the Aviation industry is an unstable one... (MyTravel merger / GB buyout by Easyjet are 2 current examples)

Cabin Crew should be paid better and recognised more for what they do
This talk of strikes must've made the Management sit up and take notice but a strike will be more detrimental than anyone could imagine and in the short term could make matters worse.

The Cabin crew have shown that they mean business and in the future this mess they are in now could be a great bargaining tool for future pay negotiations but if a stike goes ahead there may not be much of a company left to bargain with....

So I go away for a few days and this like cc.com has become a mud slinging forum for people from other departments telling everyone who is fighting for their rights how bad they are.

Other departments taking a pop at crew and people posting things from allegedly the CAB which is utter tosh (do a search about what V FSM said CAB said last time and see if it came to fruition - nothing but an attempt at scare talk).

Not really interested in getting involved anymore as the debate has become childish banter and a lot of feet stomping - I only echo Stormin Normans post to stick with your convictions if you believe you deserve more (be it financial, conditions, not more standby - everyone has their own goals)


Being labelled etc etc by other departments and passengers for being prepared to strike for "our" conditions is frankly exactly what we expected. If you are not prepared to represent yourselves through a union (pilots excluded) I dont understand why you have so much to say about people who do fight for what they believe in.

Lucky other departments doesn't sit in on CRM , could be all out war !

Yes the last vote has been left on the table (after yet another false threat that it would be removed if the vote came back NO) and ta-da it's still there, the management really hoping and praying that it will get a last chance revival before having to cough up.


KO writes a sensible piece, however my only response would be that we are now working with what little resources we have left in order to achieve our goals as a direct result if inept union management and virgin management.


If that means using the A-Bomb to end it all as Hiroshima did then so be it - it was a drastic measure but achieved the end result. The pilots striking (I know %'s were very different but the weapon of choice was the same, the equivalent of a company A-Bomb and in your case it achieved its goals we are hoping for the same).

How many times have we heard "final offer", I think the answer is "not for the final time".

Scooby...... are you often prone to exagerating situations?

Accept the 4.8 % and just be happy you aint getting the 2% the rest of the company has been offered...... you will never see the day where you get the figures mentioned on this thread:ugh:

Or as said by numerous other people on this thread just leave the company and find a job that pays a wage youre happy with... then the company can recruit one of the thousands waiting for your job as virgin cabin crew to replace you:ugh:

It really is that simple:ok: