BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)
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What do we hope by achieving from a strike? A message that we are not satisfied. Let the VCC and strikebreaking CC work! I, and many others, will never sign the present agreement as there are too many loopholes in it.
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BASSA members have no voice
"We are all the union, every single one of us, therefore we are not in the business of denying you that opportunity. So please be assured you will get your chance to vote to accept or reject it."
OK, so that recent BASSA statement turns out to be crap then doesnt it.
Some of you are clearly more "in the union" than others I guess.
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Miss M
I think BA ill let you strike all you want. BASSA have less and less support out there from crew, and whatever you think the volunteers are still there ready and waiting. BA are just desperate to see BASSA call a strike that is illegal (even if through some tiny legality), just so they can do what they want. I do not think they will sack everyone on illegal strike, but they would love to get to the point where they could if they wanted.
Do you really trust BASSA/Unite that much, even though they have made so many mistakes so far. Do you really trust them to get back the staff travel now, when they initially said it would be back in "5" minutes.
Why do you trust them so much?
Do the loopholes that you want closed iinclude ALL suspended and sacked returned to work (even though some of those cases might just be justified), because that cannot happen.
Another one that cannot happen is that BA will never guarantee your terms and conditions will never be changed again, because no company will do that in this day and age. Theyt have already in the last offer said that they will consult about future changes (and legally the only thing they cannot change is your pay and your leave entitlements, which ARE contractual).
What will BASSA actually agree to, because I for one am getting confused by all this.
I think BA ill let you strike all you want. BASSA have less and less support out there from crew, and whatever you think the volunteers are still there ready and waiting. BA are just desperate to see BASSA call a strike that is illegal (even if through some tiny legality), just so they can do what they want. I do not think they will sack everyone on illegal strike, but they would love to get to the point where they could if they wanted.
Do you really trust BASSA/Unite that much, even though they have made so many mistakes so far. Do you really trust them to get back the staff travel now, when they initially said it would be back in "5" minutes.
Why do you trust them so much?
Do the loopholes that you want closed iinclude ALL suspended and sacked returned to work (even though some of those cases might just be justified), because that cannot happen.
Another one that cannot happen is that BA will never guarantee your terms and conditions will never be changed again, because no company will do that in this day and age. Theyt have already in the last offer said that they will consult about future changes (and legally the only thing they cannot change is your pay and your leave entitlements, which ARE contractual).
What will BASSA actually agree to, because I for one am getting confused by all this.
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MissM you will never be satisfied, the offers from BA will always be unpalatable, and that is because you have lost the dispute. BA know it, Unite know it, only the militant die-hards refuse to face reality. With every action BASSA have weakened and BA have strengthened. Nobody even cares if BASSA strike now, it has no impact on anyone bar the cold, frustrated crew huddled around the braziers at Bedfont. The company can run without you, it's time to recognise that before BA decides to run without you permanently. Mixed fleet is here. You're too late.
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So what happens if Unite call a strike?
Willie said at one of the Waterside meetings that 4900 ish crew had staff travel removed, but by the end of the last strike 500 of those were working normally.
So that's 4400. If BA declare that they believe the strike to be unprotected, and thus strikers are in breach of contract and likely to be sacked, how many will actually do it?
My guess would be about 1000, certainly less than 2500. 1000 sacked would be barely missed, easily replaced by volunteers. 2500 and it gets more difficult. It could still be done, though, and BA could employ agency staff since the strike is illegal.
That would leave the rest of us with cheerful hard-working crewmembers and the thorn permanently removed from BA's side.
Hmm. I don't suppose this has crossed BA's planners minds?
Willie said at one of the Waterside meetings that 4900 ish crew had staff travel removed, but by the end of the last strike 500 of those were working normally.
So that's 4400. If BA declare that they believe the strike to be unprotected, and thus strikers are in breach of contract and likely to be sacked, how many will actually do it?
My guess would be about 1000, certainly less than 2500. 1000 sacked would be barely missed, easily replaced by volunteers. 2500 and it gets more difficult. It could still be done, though, and BA could employ agency staff since the strike is illegal.
That would leave the rest of us with cheerful hard-working crewmembers and the thorn permanently removed from BA's side.
Hmm. I don't suppose this has crossed BA's planners minds?
Last edited by who came first; 11th Nov 2010 at 14:26.
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What do we hope by achieving from a strike? A message that we are not satisfied. Let the VCC and strikebreaking CC work! I, and many others, will never sign the present agreement as there are too many loopholes in it.
That would be a result!
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The immediate future
I strongly believe in the right of employees to belong to an effective union/staff association. I also believe that members should display solidarity with the democratic decisions of that organisation, otherwise it will fail to protect its members' interests. For a union to deny its members the opportunity to vote on a proposal put by the employer (and thus deny them the chance to voice their genuine opinion) is an appalling betrayal.
In the interests of all the very fine crew who belong to BASSA and Amicus I hope they reject a strike, so their futures can be protected. They are more important than the militant few who would happily sacrifice the Airline.
The Airline will comfortably survive further IA. I doubt striking crew will.
In the interests of all the very fine crew who belong to BASSA and Amicus I hope they reject a strike, so their futures can be protected. They are more important than the militant few who would happily sacrifice the Airline.
The Airline will comfortably survive further IA. I doubt striking crew will.
Last edited by Wheezyjet; 11th Nov 2010 at 15:06. Reason: Added a little bit.
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Miss M
So you propose to strike because you want to send a message that you are not satisfied. You could do that by email. Throwing a hissy and refusing to work on this basis are the actions of a child. What do you propose BASSA should put on the strike ballot form? We are calling for strike action because BA have been beastly. At least that might not get all those who walk off the job a P45. Oh and even if Unite in a moment of madness allow a strike ballot, you've missed the boat for Xmas. What has really happened is that the CC89 and BASSA reps have once again denied the members an opportunity to a democratic vote on an offer by BA management to end this dispute. One wonders why? Can you explain?
So you propose to strike because you want to send a message that you are not satisfied. You could do that by email. Throwing a hissy and refusing to work on this basis are the actions of a child. What do you propose BASSA should put on the strike ballot form? We are calling for strike action because BA have been beastly. At least that might not get all those who walk off the job a P45. Oh and even if Unite in a moment of madness allow a strike ballot, you've missed the boat for Xmas. What has really happened is that the CC89 and BASSA reps have once again denied the members an opportunity to a democratic vote on an offer by BA management to end this dispute. One wonders why? Can you explain?
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Ok, so maybe I'm a bit dense here, but if Unite have seen sense and realise that this is the best and final offer from the company but reps are having the colly wobbles and are rejecting it out of hand, surely what happens now is that Unite tell them to get real cos they ain't backing any notion of strikes?
If the reps are still spoiling for a fight (although you'd have to wonder what on earth for at this stage), then they can't strike legally without the backing of Unite (who look like they won't give it), can they, or have I missed something here?
If the reps are still spoiling for a fight (although you'd have to wonder what on earth for at this stage), then they can't strike legally without the backing of Unite (who look like they won't give it), can they, or have I missed something here?
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What a painfully drawn out process this has been. MissM, I admire your fortitude and single mindedness. But, please articulate what you hope BASSA is going to achieve now.
BTW, do not under-estimate the ability of those who will work through any future (suicidal) IA to provide the service par excellence that our customers deserve.
nurj
BTW, do not under-estimate the ability of those who will work through any future (suicidal) IA to provide the service par excellence that our customers deserve.
nurj
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Trying to read between the lines here; does Unite make any notion towards a ballot for IA ?
I reckon they are doing a bit of housekeeping with their renegade Reps as it now transpires that the Amicus and Bassa Secretaries have not done as instructed with regards to the consultative ballot.
Unite have all but accepted the deal, alas one or two people with their own forums and propoganda will never concede to defeat.
A message to Unite; if Bassa want to have their own Alamo, then let them have it. Nobody cares anymore....................
I reckon they are doing a bit of housekeeping with their renegade Reps as it now transpires that the Amicus and Bassa Secretaries have not done as instructed with regards to the consultative ballot.
Unite have all but accepted the deal, alas one or two people with their own forums and propoganda will never concede to defeat.
A message to Unite; if Bassa want to have their own Alamo, then let them have it. Nobody cares anymore....................
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Ok, so maybe I'm a bit dense here, but if Unite have seen sense and realise that this is the best and final offer from the company but reps are having the colly wobbles and are rejecting it out of hand, surely what happens now is that Unite tell them to get real cos they ain't backing any notion of strikes? Quote from Tunbridge Wells. I think you've hit the nail on the head there Sir!
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From Tunbridge Wells,
Only Unite (read Tony Woodley and/or Derek Simpson) can call a strike ballot, branches such as BASSA cannot do this.
By failing to recommend the deal to their members, BASSA and Amicus have painted themselves into a corner. No ballot on the offer means no return of seniority for ST, and Woodley isn't about to call a strike ballot either.
Unless Woodley can bang some heads together, it's hard to see a way forward for Unite.
Only Unite (read Tony Woodley and/or Derek Simpson) can call a strike ballot, branches such as BASSA cannot do this.
By failing to recommend the deal to their members, BASSA and Amicus have painted themselves into a corner. No ballot on the offer means no return of seniority for ST, and Woodley isn't about to call a strike ballot either.
Unless Woodley can bang some heads together, it's hard to see a way forward for Unite.
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Hi
Depite being imtimidated by what I can only aasume are BASSA forum thugs, including one who used her own name I have decided to come back with the name I chose regardless if its the same as some BASSA forum militant, or as desribed to me at work today one of the "forum massive" and indeed one of only about 20 people who even bother posting regularly.
This is the last straw. I am resigning from BASSA. I hope the advice given on here by many seemingly lovely people is true.
Depite being imtimidated by what I can only aasume are BASSA forum thugs, including one who used her own name I have decided to come back with the name I chose regardless if its the same as some BASSA forum militant, or as desribed to me at work today one of the "forum massive" and indeed one of only about 20 people who even bother posting regularly.
This is the last straw. I am resigning from BASSA. I hope the advice given on here by many seemingly lovely people is true.
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If, as is being reported, Unite have suspended the consultative ballot, where does that leave BA vis a vis staff travel having already been returned?
Apparently, WW did say at last week's forum that 90 days notice of change of contract was not on the cards, but I wonder whether this could change things? Unite are putting 13000 employees' futures at risk. Utterly shameful.
Apparently, WW did say at last week's forum that 90 days notice of change of contract was not on the cards, but I wonder whether this could change things? Unite are putting 13000 employees' futures at risk. Utterly shameful.
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Good for you Rosiegirl,
sometimes you have to do what you believe is right, and not just follow - or give in to - others. You may also have the chance to accept a deal direct from BA now you've resigned from Bassa.
If I was Willie I would let it be known that the previous offer would be made available to non Bassa members soon.
Remember that the senior Unite officials are fighting their own political battles at the moment and BA cabin crew are merely cannon fodder for their reputations and political ideals.
sometimes you have to do what you believe is right, and not just follow - or give in to - others. You may also have the chance to accept a deal direct from BA now you've resigned from Bassa.
If I was Willie I would let it be known that the previous offer would be made available to non Bassa members soon.
Remember that the senior Unite officials are fighting their own political battles at the moment and BA cabin crew are merely cannon fodder for their reputations and political ideals.
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I don't suppose that the CC unions are now delaying things until their endorsed candidate(s) are, one or the other, elected Gen. Sec of UNITE in the hope that they will take a more pro-BASSA/CC89 stance ? Surely not ....
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It is Unite that have withdrawn the ballot not Bassa and Amicus.
Unite don't want it to go ahead because Bassa and Amicus have both recently said they will encourage a NO vote. Unite don't want a NO vote for the offer because that would make it hard for them to deny Bassa and Amicus another strike vote.
Unite know that it is an ok offer and they don't want a strike, particularly at Christmas, so this is a delaying process. By withdrawing this ballot they are preventing Bassa and Amicus having time for a strike. Bassa and Amicus are both upset about the appendix letter which prevents them from going to court. (details of it can be seen on Uniteba site which is Amicus's site)
With Bassa and Amicus both recommending a NO I can tell you that a lot of crew would have voted NO and a ballot for a strike would have been hard for Unite to refuse. You have to remember that most of the moderate crew, like me, have now left the unions, so a large NO vote would be inevitable. You would be amazed at how many crew STILL believe everything that Bassa says and the crass way Mixed Fleet has been introduced with the Hats issue has just managed to upset all crew not just the militant ones, even more.
Unite don't want it to go ahead because Bassa and Amicus have both recently said they will encourage a NO vote. Unite don't want a NO vote for the offer because that would make it hard for them to deny Bassa and Amicus another strike vote.
Unite know that it is an ok offer and they don't want a strike, particularly at Christmas, so this is a delaying process. By withdrawing this ballot they are preventing Bassa and Amicus having time for a strike. Bassa and Amicus are both upset about the appendix letter which prevents them from going to court. (details of it can be seen on Uniteba site which is Amicus's site)
With Bassa and Amicus both recommending a NO I can tell you that a lot of crew would have voted NO and a ballot for a strike would have been hard for Unite to refuse. You have to remember that most of the moderate crew, like me, have now left the unions, so a large NO vote would be inevitable. You would be amazed at how many crew STILL believe everything that Bassa says and the crass way Mixed Fleet has been introduced with the Hats issue has just managed to upset all crew not just the militant ones, even more.
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Bettysgirl.. I don't often/ever post on forums but I had to come on and echo your post. I've read all the forums this evening and I see the situation exactly as you do in regards to Unites decision to 'suspend' the ballot, though everyone on the Bassa forum seems to be patting each other on the back congratulating themselves on a job well done 
when the tracks of the branches and unite don't seem to be running 100% parallel.
I also agree that the beginning of mixed fleet has had an interesting 'effect' on crew. Those who didn't strike and who are either members of the union or not are vocally (to me anyway) expressing they blame Bassa for it's materialization. In theory then if the status quo remains between those who went on strike and those who didn't and it remains the same in any future IA then it really seems like an end game for the union??
I don't think I'l be going on strike again. The union have walked straight into BA's trap and no amount of 'sticking together' and 'united we stand' will stop the inevitable.. all just my opinion of course.
when the tracks of the branches and unite don't seem to be running 100% parallel. I also agree that the beginning of mixed fleet has had an interesting 'effect' on crew. Those who didn't strike and who are either members of the union or not are vocally (to me anyway) expressing they blame Bassa for it's materialization. In theory then if the status quo remains between those who went on strike and those who didn't and it remains the same in any future IA then it really seems like an end game for the union??
I don't think I'l be going on strike again. The union have walked straight into BA's trap and no amount of 'sticking together' and 'united we stand' will stop the inevitable.. all just my opinion of course.
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WOW! Go on holiday and look what you miss! (Using my staff travel if anyone was slightly curious! 
)
What a deplorable mess... I look forward to seeing what BASSA/Unites next move will be and seeing how BA intend to deal with this now.
I will happily be ready to work if they propose any further IA and look forward to working with happy like mined people should it be so.
MissM,
May I ask... With everything that has happened so far with Unite/BASSA, do you really think that is being lead by people that are taking your best interests to the fore?
I resigned from BASSA last november when the irks of a 12 day strike over christmas were being brought to the brink and really would not trust them with someone else's rusty barge pole... Or as far as I could spit, which seeing as I never grasped that really as a teenager, is not far... So I am curious.
Thanks.
)What a deplorable mess... I look forward to seeing what BASSA/Unites next move will be and seeing how BA intend to deal with this now.
I will happily be ready to work if they propose any further IA and look forward to working with happy like mined people should it be so.
MissM,
May I ask... With everything that has happened so far with Unite/BASSA, do you really think that is being lead by people that are taking your best interests to the fore?
I resigned from BASSA last november when the irks of a 12 day strike over christmas were being brought to the brink and really would not trust them with someone else's rusty barge pole... Or as far as I could spit, which seeing as I never grasped that really as a teenager, is not far... So I am curious.
Thanks.