British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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are we going to see few dismissals?
I think the strike will continue for another round, then the union will give up, and Willie will take appropriate actions by dismissing the strikers. It will be done a completely legal way, by giving the right notice time. But this is the only way that justifies the company's share price continous rise.
Analysts know that, commercially speaking, this was a good move from the CEO.
Analysts know that, commercially speaking, this was a good move from the CEO.
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Interpolating from the first 5 days of strike action it appears that only approx 35-40 % of crew are actually going on strike,and that percentage is decreasing with each strike day that passes.This is based on quite a large sample of approx 2000 crew due to report each day with approx 700 not showing up.Unite /Bassa must be very dissapointed bearing in mind that in excess of 8000 voted for strike action back in December.
I think it was always known that a lot voted yes but had no intention of striking.This made it very unfair on those who were always going to strike as they believed they had more support than was actually the case.But there were enough articles/posts suggesting that was always going to be the case.
You cannot win an industrial dispute with only that level of support.You have 8000+ cabin crew not striking plus what must be close to 1200 volunteers trained up.
Cranebank is working at max capacity and is now only training people up people on the 747.By the end of April they will have another 250-300 volunteers trained up.
I know all these figures will be ridiculed by Bassa who will produce there own but they now have a track record of producing completely made up figures for this dispute.(Aircraft at SNN/CWL ,only 26 crew crossed the picket line etc).
What is Bassa`s exit strategy? Who knows. I think they have been very naive in not looking at how the options for the end game might turn out.
The issue seems to have become about staff travel now.Even if that goes in their favour it could be over a year before it gets to the courts.
With the comments from a bassa rep about giving Gordon Brown a good kicking just before the election by possibly announcing more strike dates in April just shows how dislocated they are from the whole Unite set up.
Bassa are in the process of self destructing and are incapable of taking a step back .They will rue the day they did not have wiser heads to advise or listen to.
I think it was always known that a lot voted yes but had no intention of striking.This made it very unfair on those who were always going to strike as they believed they had more support than was actually the case.But there were enough articles/posts suggesting that was always going to be the case.
You cannot win an industrial dispute with only that level of support.You have 8000+ cabin crew not striking plus what must be close to 1200 volunteers trained up.
Cranebank is working at max capacity and is now only training people up people on the 747.By the end of April they will have another 250-300 volunteers trained up.
I know all these figures will be ridiculed by Bassa who will produce there own but they now have a track record of producing completely made up figures for this dispute.(Aircraft at SNN/CWL ,only 26 crew crossed the picket line etc).
What is Bassa`s exit strategy? Who knows. I think they have been very naive in not looking at how the options for the end game might turn out.
The issue seems to have become about staff travel now.Even if that goes in their favour it could be over a year before it gets to the courts.
With the comments from a bassa rep about giving Gordon Brown a good kicking just before the election by possibly announcing more strike dates in April just shows how dislocated they are from the whole Unite set up.
Bassa are in the process of self destructing and are incapable of taking a step back .They will rue the day they did not have wiser heads to advise or listen to.
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when will the strikes end ...
I agree with toomuchradiations
I think if/when the Unite announce (and complete) another long strike in April, BASSA strikers will be starting to really hurt financially and will have little option but to return to work... If the strikers didn't need the money, why would you be working in the first place ?!
A company exist primarily to make profits for shareholders, not to line the pockets of its employees (but to keep the best you have to pay slightly better than market rates ... maybe 10%? now where have i heard that argument put forward!)
LTF
I think if/when the Unite announce (and complete) another long strike in April, BASSA strikers will be starting to really hurt financially and will have little option but to return to work... If the strikers didn't need the money, why would you be working in the first place ?!
A company exist primarily to make profits for shareholders, not to line the pockets of its employees (but to keep the best you have to pay slightly better than market rates ... maybe 10%? now where have i heard that argument put forward!)
LTF
Last edited by License to Fly; 28th Mar 2010 at 11:00.
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I agree with toomuchradiations that ww will ride the strikes out. So far, their contingency plans have worked perfectly. Whether he will eventually find a way to sack strikers is anyones guess, but one things for sure, I certainly wouldn't want to be in their position right now and this is mainly because I have NO FAITH whatsoever in Unite's competence to fight their corner. 
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BASSA Strike Pay
From the union website, 25 March:
Would any member of BASSA who is currently on strike, or even a member who has returned to work, tell us whether or not he/she has received even a penny of the £30 per day strike pay promised by the union?
the company has vindictively acted to dock pay from crew not just for days taken on strike, but in some cases for longer periods, significantly impacting on your income. Accordingly, Unite will pay strike pay at our agreed rate not just for days taken on strike but for ALL days for which the employer has deducted wages as a result of the industrial action.
Would any member of BASSA who is currently on strike, or even a member who has returned to work, tell us whether or not he/she has received even a penny of the £30 per day strike pay promised by the union?
Last edited by Chuchinchow; 28th Mar 2010 at 12:32.
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Extremely loyal to BA,not militants,and backing BA .
The comments from a female crew member on strike who has just been interviewed on BBC news channel. Is it me or am i missing something here,they do like playing the B&H and single mum card she couldn't realy expand on those comments and just repeated herself.
The unite guy on SKY saying the next two weeks is a pause for peace and a window to negotiate
he is desperate.
The comments from a female crew member on strike who has just been interviewed on BBC news channel. Is it me or am i missing something here,they do like playing the B&H and single mum card she couldn't realy expand on those comments and just repeated herself.
The unite guy on SKY saying the next two weeks is a pause for peace and a window to negotiate
he is desperate.
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Chuchinchow
Really?
Yet another broken BASSA promise.
Yet another broken BASSA promise.
And as BA have not yet released the Pay Slips - that cannot be done.
I feel quite embarrassed for you as you clearly thought you had the upper hand.
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I think it very worrying that both sides have, at an early stage, boxed themselves into a corner. BA say no return of travel perks - ever. Unite say no deal without the return of travel perks - ever. BA are going to win this in the long term. We can only speculate on what the fallout with be in terms of CRM around the airline but it can't be good.
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If the strikes are allowed to continue and more and more staff return to work, then theoretically there would be enough staff to run the operation.
The chartered aircraft could continue to be used to fill the remaining schedule.
Then, it is entirely possible (and this is just my opinion, no proof required) that Compulsory Redundancies could be issued to the remaining strikers.
Crew who went into work last week who talked to Bill Francis, said that he mentioned that CR would now be likely. After 3 months, any crew who were made redundant could then be replaced on New Fleet contracts.
Like I said, just my opinion.
The chartered aircraft could continue to be used to fill the remaining schedule.
Then, it is entirely possible (and this is just my opinion, no proof required) that Compulsory Redundancies could be issued to the remaining strikers.
Crew who went into work last week who talked to Bill Francis, said that he mentioned that CR would now be likely. After 3 months, any crew who were made redundant could then be replaced on New Fleet contracts.
Like I said, just my opinion.
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for BaCabinCrew
What I wrote was, obviously, just my gut feeling.
The basis for choosing to get rid of more cabin crew is, however, on the basis of the fact that the share price of the company has kept on rising in the past weeks. It is then reasonable to believe that Analysts are convinced that the strike is a good thing, in commercial terms.
So, why would a strike be ever considered a "good thing" be people who want to make money by buying and selling shares? It does not make sense, or does it? I believe that it does make sense, as Analysts know that BA is overstaffed and deeper cuts could only be achieved as a result to the deeper losses that this strike has brought about.
There is, then, a real justification for BA to cut costs further, thus by cutting down on the man power. Which manpower? I would suspect that this will be the very manpower that has caused these great losses to the company.
that is just my opinion, no offence.
The basis for choosing to get rid of more cabin crew is, however, on the basis of the fact that the share price of the company has kept on rising in the past weeks. It is then reasonable to believe that Analysts are convinced that the strike is a good thing, in commercial terms.
So, why would a strike be ever considered a "good thing" be people who want to make money by buying and selling shares? It does not make sense, or does it? I believe that it does make sense, as Analysts know that BA is overstaffed and deeper cuts could only be achieved as a result to the deeper losses that this strike has brought about.
There is, then, a real justification for BA to cut costs further, thus by cutting down on the man power. Which manpower? I would suspect that this will be the very manpower that has caused these great losses to the company.
that is just my opinion, no offence.
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Somebody mentioned on a previous thread that it was 3 months. Feel free to correct me on this.
Even if it is longer than 3 months, I am sure the companies that BA are chartering to cover part of there operation, would be more than happy of the extra business for as long as BA needs them.
Even if it is longer than 3 months, I am sure the companies that BA are chartering to cover part of there operation, would be more than happy of the extra business for as long as BA needs them.
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toomuchradiations
The rise in share price is also in part due to a number of factors including potential agreement on pensions, Iberia merger, AA tie up etc.
The truth of the matter is, this strike is damaging to the business as a whole. BA over the years have spent time, money and effort on getting Flight and Cabin Crew to work closer (CRM etc) - this has now been blown out of the water due to the actions in part of those breaking the strike and those who have had Crew suspended for Facebook etc There is now a massive distrust of the Flight Crew amongst a large number of Cabin Crew.
You need to remember that this strike is legal, Walsh could sack a striker, much as he could sack anyone he wanted too, however if he sacks one he has to sack them all. That will not happen in my opinion.
Furthermore the strike is actually more damaging than BA are saying - for example the flights out of LHR today not including the codeshares but including wet leases are as follows:
The flights below include wet leased flights but don't include codeshares
06:00 - 09:00 13 Cancelled 31 Departures
09:00 - 12:00 23 Cancelled 42 Planned
12:00 - 15:00 24 Cancelled 32 Planned
15:00 - 18:00 30 Cancelled 32 Planned
18:00 - 21:00 44 Cancelled 9 Planned
21:00 - 23:59 6 Cancelled 11 Planned
140 Cancellations 157 Planned to go
These are true figures - and as you can see nowhere near 70% Operating
47% Cancelled 53% Operating
Walsh cannot let this drag on, given that the Union have asked a number of times to get back round the table. He has let the Union have their strike and it has been much more successful than BA ever envisaged - now it's time to get it settled.
The truth of the matter is, this strike is damaging to the business as a whole. BA over the years have spent time, money and effort on getting Flight and Cabin Crew to work closer (CRM etc) - this has now been blown out of the water due to the actions in part of those breaking the strike and those who have had Crew suspended for Facebook etc There is now a massive distrust of the Flight Crew amongst a large number of Cabin Crew.
You need to remember that this strike is legal, Walsh could sack a striker, much as he could sack anyone he wanted too, however if he sacks one he has to sack them all. That will not happen in my opinion.
Furthermore the strike is actually more damaging than BA are saying - for example the flights out of LHR today not including the codeshares but including wet leases are as follows:
The flights below include wet leased flights but don't include codeshares
06:00 - 09:00 13 Cancelled 31 Departures
09:00 - 12:00 23 Cancelled 42 Planned
12:00 - 15:00 24 Cancelled 32 Planned
15:00 - 18:00 30 Cancelled 32 Planned
18:00 - 21:00 44 Cancelled 9 Planned
21:00 - 23:59 6 Cancelled 11 Planned
140 Cancellations 157 Planned to go
These are true figures - and as you can see nowhere near 70% Operating
47% Cancelled 53% Operating
Walsh cannot let this drag on, given that the Union have asked a number of times to get back round the table. He has let the Union have their strike and it has been much more successful than BA ever envisaged - now it's time to get it settled.
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A quick question re Unite strikers compensation for loss of pay, as the end of the month approaches and the pay packets will be available for proof of claim.
Is it taxable?
I mean the £30.
If so, not much compensation.
Not much from Union that can give Labour over £11 million in the recent past
Is it taxable?
I mean the £30.
If so, not much compensation.
Not much from Union that can give Labour over £11 million in the recent past
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UNITE is to pay for every strike day which BA deducts from an individual's roster - I would expect it will start happening next month - it won't happen overnight!
Could somebody explain following to me - I have been going through UNITE's 18 reasons as to why you should strike.
Why have they put down a two year pay freeze as a reason when it was initially suggested by BASSA? What am I missing?
Could somebody explain following to me - I have been going through UNITE's 18 reasons as to why you should strike.
Why have they put down a two year pay freeze as a reason when it was initially suggested by BASSA? What am I missing?
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Why is strike pay non taxable. If it is an income then surely it would atract the same taxation as normal pay?
Sounded like a perfectable civalised question to me, hardly irrelavant just because you don't like its inferance.
Sounded like a perfectable civalised question to me, hardly irrelavant just because you don't like its inferance.