BA and Project Columbus III
Join Date: Dec 2000
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rb8
"Listening" and "BASSA" are not 2 words I ever expect to see in the same sentence
My concern for my colleagues is that they are being sold down the river by their 'reps' who are (as I understand it) paid for by their union directly, rather than by the members. As such (unlike BALPA reps who are paid by BA as part of our agreement), they have less to lose by advocating strike action - after all they lose less than their members, as their union underwrites part of their pay.
Guess who will suffer if BA goes under. The UNITE reps or the general membership? Duh..... Just look at the history of UNITE. The GG dispute of 200x resulted in reps being fired from BA for illegal activities. What happened to them? They were employed by UNITE on their original conditions! What was their exposure to their illegal action - none, and the members they represented? - sacked. Go figure who is really on your side - answer - it isn't UNITE.
It is time (as I have said before) for the membership to regain control.
"Listening" and "BASSA" are not 2 words I ever expect to see in the same sentence
My concern for my colleagues is that they are being sold down the river by their 'reps' who are (as I understand it) paid for by their union directly, rather than by the members. As such (unlike BALPA reps who are paid by BA as part of our agreement), they have less to lose by advocating strike action - after all they lose less than their members, as their union underwrites part of their pay.
Guess who will suffer if BA goes under. The UNITE reps or the general membership? Duh..... Just look at the history of UNITE. The GG dispute of 200x resulted in reps being fired from BA for illegal activities. What happened to them? They were employed by UNITE on their original conditions! What was their exposure to their illegal action - none, and the members they represented? - sacked. Go figure who is really on your side - answer - it isn't UNITE.
It is time (as I have said before) for the membership to regain control.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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What people forget is that this is not about changes to current t & c's it only about one thing and thats the introduction the new fleet. Bassa have told BA we can save 100m through changes to working practises.
BA just want the new fleet, thats it ,end of.
BA just want the new fleet, thats it ,end of.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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That's right, BASSA has never agreed to changes in working practices...ever.
Had they done so we wouldn't be in this much of a mess now.
What exactly will they agree to now??
Fixed links? I don't think so, Reduction in crewing levels? I doubt it, they still want extra crew before agreeing to hot towels in world traveller plus for heavens sake.
BASSA wants to leave all crew totally untouched and screw every new joiner, is that not a little selfish?
Had they done so we wouldn't be in this much of a mess now.
What exactly will they agree to now??
Fixed links? I don't think so, Reduction in crewing levels? I doubt it, they still want extra crew before agreeing to hot towels in world traveller plus for heavens sake.
BASSA wants to leave all crew totally untouched and screw every new joiner, is that not a little selfish?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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It is shame that posters describe BASSA as as "they" or "them". The majority on here are now saying that the status quo is not sustainable and they are happy to make major changes to their working practises. You are the union they should reflect the members feelings and promote their interests, how did this relationship become so broken?
As a contrast I feel BALPA are inclusive and supportive of its members (They pay independent pollsters carry out surveys of peoples feelings for example. They have also had a policy of engaging with the company which has given it access to the LT and confidential buisness data.
Which of the two now look to have been playing the "long game" better. Although this time around all our jobs are at risk- I can see pilot CR being odds on.
As a contrast I feel BALPA are inclusive and supportive of its members (They pay independent pollsters carry out surveys of peoples feelings for example. They have also had a policy of engaging with the company which has given it access to the LT and confidential buisness data.
Which of the two now look to have been playing the "long game" better. Although this time around all our jobs are at risk- I can see pilot CR being odds on.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I wonder though if the union and their members can be compared to the recent European elections in that there is a rather small group that drive the decisions. Is there a similar pattern where the % that actually vote on ballot measures and take an active part in their union is in the 20,30 or 40% range. Making it easier for a determined group within the union to get their goals met?
Join Date: Jun 2009
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It is so refreshing to be having this virtual conversation - by thrashing it out on here it may well bring us a solution to the problem we face with BASSA saying NO. And the more people that show they are for permanent change, the better.
The Moo - BASSA's proposals, as I understand it, were all temporary. WW wants permanent. Have BASSA offered any permanent changes? And what was WW's reply?
Cellstar - you're probably right - the minority are probably ruling the roost. How do we get that changed?
The Moo - BASSA's proposals, as I understand it, were all temporary. WW wants permanent. Have BASSA offered any permanent changes? And what was WW's reply?
Cellstar - you're probably right - the minority are probably ruling the roost. How do we get that changed?
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Think about my shares.
When they thought up the term "Troll" they had you specifically in mind didn't they sfs?
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BASSA have clearly stated that they WILL NOT accept any permanent changes to the current T&C. They did offer new contracts (do we really need a third contract on the aircraft) for future crew but WW said so.
... which reminds me. If this future crew joins on a new contract, would they be represented by BASSA? Probably not! It has been made clear that crew joining "ScrewFleet" (the new fleet) are not to be represented by BASSA.
Extra crew for doing hot towels? That's an issue I will never understand as some crew say we have to see the larger picture and not this particular issue. Still, most of the time when you return from crew rest you see crew chatting away in the galley. Doing the hot towels would take two minutes at the most. Who are we there for? The passengers or the crew? The product we are offering is lame compared to our competitors. I suppose this is why BA wants to improve it with some towels but BASSA says no. Never! Sometimes it's like a brick wall.
Dare to say anything that goes against what BASSA, and some of their true members, believe and you are in for a cat fight. Look at some of the comments made in the Crew Forum. If you were to say "Hey, perhaps we shouldn't strike?" or "Maybe we should do the hot towels?" most of the members will hunt you down.
... which reminds me. If this future crew joins on a new contract, would they be represented by BASSA? Probably not! It has been made clear that crew joining "ScrewFleet" (the new fleet) are not to be represented by BASSA.
Extra crew for doing hot towels? That's an issue I will never understand as some crew say we have to see the larger picture and not this particular issue. Still, most of the time when you return from crew rest you see crew chatting away in the galley. Doing the hot towels would take two minutes at the most. Who are we there for? The passengers or the crew? The product we are offering is lame compared to our competitors. I suppose this is why BA wants to improve it with some towels but BASSA says no. Never! Sometimes it's like a brick wall.
Dare to say anything that goes against what BASSA, and some of their true members, believe and you are in for a cat fight. Look at some of the comments made in the Crew Forum. If you were to say "Hey, perhaps we shouldn't strike?" or "Maybe we should do the hot towels?" most of the members will hunt you down.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Nuigini,
Maybe everyone here who doesn't want to strike should write on the crew forum that we don't want to? All at the same time, same thread etc.
Although I'm sure we'll be shouted down and accused of being management spies (what's new, eh?)
Gg
Maybe everyone here who doesn't want to strike should write on the crew forum that we don't want to? All at the same time, same thread etc.
Although I'm sure we'll be shouted down and accused of being management spies (what's new, eh?)
Gg
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Glamgirl - it's sounds like a good idea, but I would be very wary of Crewforum. One of the moderators even appears to be a BASSA rep (or near as)!!
Nuigini - you are absolutely right about being hunted down. TBH I am nervous even just voicing on here!
Somehow we need to start voicing our opinions, so that others join in. There are many more like us, who are prepared to make PERMANENT changes, are unlikely to strike and do NOT want to see the company go down (yes - unbelievably that is the ideal of some)!
As far as Matt's post goes - I think the "best outcome for everyone" would be permanent changes that increase productivity to save money, hopefully not impacting too much on our takehome pay
and hence no need for NEW Fleet. Or is that just a dream??
Nuigini - you are absolutely right about being hunted down. TBH I am nervous even just voicing on here!
Somehow we need to start voicing our opinions, so that others join in. There are many more like us, who are prepared to make PERMANENT changes, are unlikely to strike and do NOT want to see the company go down (yes - unbelievably that is the ideal of some)!
As far as Matt's post goes - I think the "best outcome for everyone" would be permanent changes that increase productivity to save money, hopefully not impacting too much on our takehome pay
and hence no need for NEW Fleet. Or is that just a dream??
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Glamgirl, we don't get london weighting at LHR.
And if you ask on either of the 2 forums available to BA cabin crew, (3 if you include BASSA which I am not a member of), I'm sure you'll get an in-depth answer as to why we get destinations payments on certain routes. It's to do with money that was left over from the pot after our basic salaries were altered some years ago.
We earn different amounts because we have different egreements.. The 'old' WW LGW would have been the same as us, but this was changed.
I do think all cabin crew for BA should have the same agreements, whichever base they are at. Unfortunately, things change, new people come, realise things are different after a while, then bleat about it and blame their colleagues up the road. Many of whom agree with me..
Thanks.!!
I think far too many in-house details are being put here,( many are wrong I have to say) I really don't think this is the place for it.
Good luck to all.
And if you ask on either of the 2 forums available to BA cabin crew, (3 if you include BASSA which I am not a member of), I'm sure you'll get an in-depth answer as to why we get destinations payments on certain routes. It's to do with money that was left over from the pot after our basic salaries were altered some years ago.
We earn different amounts because we have different egreements.. The 'old' WW LGW would have been the same as us, but this was changed.
I do think all cabin crew for BA should have the same agreements, whichever base they are at. Unfortunately, things change, new people come, realise things are different after a while, then bleat about it and blame their colleagues up the road. Many of whom agree with me..
Thanks.!!
I think far too many in-house details are being put here,( many are wrong I have to say) I really don't think this is the place for it.
Good luck to all.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I can see imposition just around the corner. The cabin crew then strike, go sick or whatever. The first 2000 to do so are sacked - people will soon think twice about not showing up for work, and now no Voluntary redundancy is required.
If the sacked crew win an employment tribunal, BA simply pays them the minimum compensation they can get away with (it will still be less than the currently proposed voluntary redundancy pay). Plus I bet many would not win their case, because there has been so much talk of 'bringing down the company' that the tribunals would be on BA's side.
BA loses its 2000 most militant crew, and ends up with the crew on even worse terms and conditions than are currently being proposed. ie BA win, and the crew LOSE.
I think it is time you all started begging your reps to negotiate.
If the sacked crew win an employment tribunal, BA simply pays them the minimum compensation they can get away with (it will still be less than the currently proposed voluntary redundancy pay). Plus I bet many would not win their case, because there has been so much talk of 'bringing down the company' that the tribunals would be on BA's side.
BA loses its 2000 most militant crew, and ends up with the crew on even worse terms and conditions than are currently being proposed. ie BA win, and the crew LOSE.
I think it is time you all started begging your reps to negotiate.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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You can be sacked any time for absolutely no reason at all. It might be illegal, but you can still be sacked. Just like it might be illegal to go on strike without having followed the proper process, but that has not stopped various groups within BA in the past.
If you are sacked illegally, you can claim compensation and reinstatement through an employment tribunal. If the company refuse to reinstate you, they have to pay a fine. In total, the maximum payoff an individual crew member would get, would be a few tens of thousands; let's say 30k (although I suspect it would be lower in reality). 2000 x 30k = 60Million - About as costly as a couple of days striking, but I bet the strike/sick out would be broken pretty quickly once word spread of 2000 people being sacked. The fact that the company actually wants to lose 2000 crew has put a whole new spin on things. The crew can no longer hold the company to ransom, believing that they cannot train replacements quickly enough, because they do not need to!
At the end of the day, the company cannot afford to be held to ransom by any workgroup or it will quite simply not survive. The unions need to negotiate according to the current need, or in my opinion BA's hand will be forced.
If you are sacked illegally, you can claim compensation and reinstatement through an employment tribunal. If the company refuse to reinstate you, they have to pay a fine. In total, the maximum payoff an individual crew member would get, would be a few tens of thousands; let's say 30k (although I suspect it would be lower in reality). 2000 x 30k = 60Million - About as costly as a couple of days striking, but I bet the strike/sick out would be broken pretty quickly once word spread of 2000 people being sacked. The fact that the company actually wants to lose 2000 crew has put a whole new spin on things. The crew can no longer hold the company to ransom, believing that they cannot train replacements quickly enough, because they do not need to!
At the end of the day, the company cannot afford to be held to ransom by any workgroup or it will quite simply not survive. The unions need to negotiate according to the current need, or in my opinion BA's hand will be forced.
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Ask Bassa for all the legal options available to the company in the event you go on strike (or even threaten to). They would be being totally irresponsible not to fully inform you of the potential consequences.
When Balpa were in dispute over Open Skies, they sent out detailed information on the legal ramifications so that members wouldn't be voting for a strike without understanding the consequences of a strike vote.
Demand such information from Bassa! Do you think they'll be honest and up front? Course not.
When Balpa were in dispute over Open Skies, they sent out detailed information on the legal ramifications so that members wouldn't be voting for a strike without understanding the consequences of a strike vote.
Demand such information from Bassa! Do you think they'll be honest and up front? Course not.
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Well at least one persons coming out of this OK
Join Date: Dec 2007
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GS-Alpha
Ok, thanks for that.
Just wondering, this isn't me being argumentative, (imagine me asking in a calm yet inquisitive fashion
), is this info kosher, so to speak, or your opinion..??
Ok, thanks for that.
Just wondering, this isn't me being argumentative, (imagine me asking in a calm yet inquisitive fashion
), is this info kosher, so to speak, or your opinion..??