Ba, Lcy-jfk
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Ba, Lcy-jfk
Afternoon all, has any decision been taken on who will be crewing this operation?
Mainline EF eg already checked on Airbus or WW?
Or will the route be left with Cityflyer or maybe guys from over the pond
a la Openskies??
Mainline EF eg already checked on Airbus or WW?
Or will the route be left with Cityflyer or maybe guys from over the pond
a la Openskies??
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I was under the impression that they were to be crewed by LGW crew - also Airbus licensed.
It would certainly be easier to roster within LGW duty time limits than a EF or WW crew. Not sure if I would like to coach from LGW to LCY and then operate LCY-SNN-JFK.
It would certainly be easier to roster within LGW duty time limits than a EF or WW crew. Not sure if I would like to coach from LGW to LCY and then operate LCY-SNN-JFK.
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it was officailly announced that LGW crew (which is i hasten to add a mainline base!!!!) will be operating the service
trip structure has not been announced yet but should include nightstops at nyc aswell as snn/lcy.
trip structure has not been announced yet but should include nightstops at nyc aswell as snn/lcy.
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I thought LGW-JFK was going to be on the 744. Or did I dream it. Anyway, unless they are going to operate LGW-JFK on the A318/9, I don't see how they can do a W pattern, unless you mean back to back LCY-JFK, where the crew will nightstop at LCY.
As for nightstopping at SNN, I am not sure how that is going to be feasible, considering that they are only going to be stopping on the outbound flight only, unless that is going to change. In which case they could make you operate SNN-JFK as a shuttle.
I'm off sick and bored, so let's see what they could do with this route:
Day One: Position LGW-LCY, operate LCY-SNN
Day Two: Operate SNN-JFK-SNN
Day Three: Operate SNN-LCY-SNN
Day Four: Operate SNN-LCY, Position LCY-LGW
Ok, I officially have too much time on my hands but you get my point.
As for nightstopping at SNN, I am not sure how that is going to be feasible, considering that they are only going to be stopping on the outbound flight only, unless that is going to change. In which case they could make you operate SNN-JFK as a shuttle.
I'm off sick and bored, so let's see what they could do with this route:
Day One: Position LGW-LCY, operate LCY-SNN
Day Two: Operate SNN-JFK-SNN
Day Three: Operate SNN-LCY-SNN
Day Four: Operate SNN-LCY, Position LCY-LGW
Ok, I officially have too much time on my hands but you get my point.
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I think you may have dreamt that one up VS, there are no 747's based in LGW, the crew are only trained on the 777, 737 and Airbus.
But a "w" pattern could easily be rostered, say the 777 has 10 crew and the A318 has 4. 10 crew would operate LGW-JFK on day one. On day two 4 of those crew on their own itinerary operate NYC-LCY while the other 6 are joined by the 4 crew from the previous days LCY-NYC. Day three... land in LCY. Day four the four crew go LCY/SNN-NYC and then on day 5 they join the other 6 crew for the 777 flight back to LGW. Flights all fully crewed, no costly transport costs within london, full utilisation of cabin crew. However obviously hotel costs in London need to be factored in but there is no reason why they could not actually rest in SNN instead at a cheaper cost. However I personally would hate to have to hang around london to bring fresh passengers to SNN after doing a night flight in from NYC.
Even with 2 LCY flights a day this could be easily achieved. Simply the Cabin Manager and another main crew member remain on the JFK round trip with the rest of the crew splitting to operate the LCY services based on the assumption that the A318 will only have a purser and three main crew!
At LHR we do a lot of seperate itinerary trips from the crew we initially report with. For example I did a B2B recently which was an IAD/BWI trip. I flew out to IAD with 12 crew in a 777. The next day we were met by 3 more crew and we flew home on a 747. Then the next day we lost 7 crew and only 8 of us flew to BWI and back on a 767!! Almost every trip we had crew joining or leaving the core 8 of us!
But a "w" pattern could easily be rostered, say the 777 has 10 crew and the A318 has 4. 10 crew would operate LGW-JFK on day one. On day two 4 of those crew on their own itinerary operate NYC-LCY while the other 6 are joined by the 4 crew from the previous days LCY-NYC. Day three... land in LCY. Day four the four crew go LCY/SNN-NYC and then on day 5 they join the other 6 crew for the 777 flight back to LGW. Flights all fully crewed, no costly transport costs within london, full utilisation of cabin crew. However obviously hotel costs in London need to be factored in but there is no reason why they could not actually rest in SNN instead at a cheaper cost. However I personally would hate to have to hang around london to bring fresh passengers to SNN after doing a night flight in from NYC.
Even with 2 LCY flights a day this could be easily achieved. Simply the Cabin Manager and another main crew member remain on the JFK round trip with the rest of the crew splitting to operate the LCY services based on the assumption that the A318 will only have a purser and three main crew!
At LHR we do a lot of seperate itinerary trips from the crew we initially report with. For example I did a B2B recently which was an IAD/BWI trip. I flew out to IAD with 12 crew in a 777. The next day we were met by 3 more crew and we flew home on a 747. Then the next day we lost 7 crew and only 8 of us flew to BWI and back on a 767!! Almost every trip we had crew joining or leaving the core 8 of us!
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Or...
Day 1. position LGW-LCY
operate LCY-SNN
nightstop
Day 2. operate SNN-JFK
nightstop
Day 3. operate JFK-LCY
Day 4 position LCY-LGW...
Remember the JFK-LCY sector is non-stop. Only the LCY-JFK sector refuels in SNN.
Depends on how cheap hotels are at Shannon, transport costs LGW-LCY, and how more the extra night away from base costs. Would think the additional time away and transport costs would make this pattern cost neutral to the W pattern...Alot might also depend on the rank of SCCM used CM or PSR?? If the W pattern is used wonder if an additional PSR (replacing a STD/SS) will be put on the B777 LGW-JFK??
operate LCY-SNN
nightstop
Day 2. operate SNN-JFK
nightstop
Day 3. operate JFK-LCY
Day 4 position LCY-LGW...
Remember the JFK-LCY sector is non-stop. Only the LCY-JFK sector refuels in SNN.
Depends on how cheap hotels are at Shannon, transport costs LGW-LCY, and how more the extra night away from base costs. Would think the additional time away and transport costs would make this pattern cost neutral to the W pattern...Alot might also depend on the rank of SCCM used CM or PSR?? If the W pattern is used wonder if an additional PSR (replacing a STD/SS) will be put on the B777 LGW-JFK??
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Yeah, I remember the joy of being 'diff crew'. I once did a 13 day SIN/SYD/SIN/SYD as diff. That was back in the days when we had 16 on every 744 flight.
I know about the LGW fleet, believe me but I do remember having a discussion at Cranebank back in June with a guy in a silver tie who was saying something about it being looked at. Considering he is a trainer, I figured he may know something about it but then I've been hearing rumours about LGW since B-Cal. I do remember one from 2000 about EOG crews being trained on the 777. Look how that turned out.
Again, you could do the 744 into LGW on a W pattern which mean the aircraft wouldn't have to be based there. It would just be another out-station.
Muizenberg (great beach by the way) I see where you're coming from. It's better than my pattern. If they can get away with it though, I reckon they will do LGW-LCY-SNN-JFK as one duty. I guess the positioning sector outbound will be the fly in the ointment. If they nightstop LCY beforehand then they could operate LCY-SNN-JFK as one duty, which is probably how I'd plan it if it were up to me.
I know about the LGW fleet, believe me but I do remember having a discussion at Cranebank back in June with a guy in a silver tie who was saying something about it being looked at. Considering he is a trainer, I figured he may know something about it but then I've been hearing rumours about LGW since B-Cal. I do remember one from 2000 about EOG crews being trained on the 777. Look how that turned out.
Again, you could do the 744 into LGW on a W pattern which mean the aircraft wouldn't have to be based there. It would just be another out-station.
Muizenberg (great beach by the way) I see where you're coming from. It's better than my pattern. If they can get away with it though, I reckon they will do LGW-LCY-SNN-JFK as one duty. I guess the positioning sector outbound will be the fly in the ointment. If they nightstop LCY beforehand then they could operate LCY-SNN-JFK as one duty, which is probably how I'd plan it if it were up to me.
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From Gatwick Fleet..
Dear Colleague
I am delighted to announce the London City - New York services planned to start next autumn will be crewed by Gatwick Fleet crews. I’m sure you will agree this is good news and once again shows investment in the our fleet.
There is clearly much work to do and we will of course be talking to your TU representatives regarding all aspects of the service.
It is also worth noting that, although this is the current thinking, with the ever-changing environment we find ourselves in this could be subject to change in the future.
For the time being however lets enjoy the decision made to crew this service with Gatwick Fleet.
I am delighted to announce the London City - New York services planned to start next autumn will be crewed by Gatwick Fleet crews. I’m sure you will agree this is good news and once again shows investment in the our fleet.
There is clearly much work to do and we will of course be talking to your TU representatives regarding all aspects of the service.
It is also worth noting that, although this is the current thinking, with the ever-changing environment we find ourselves in this could be subject to change in the future.
For the time being however lets enjoy the decision made to crew this service with Gatwick Fleet.
Last edited by Flower Duet.; 4th Sep 2008 at 09:51.
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I think it's extremely unlikely anybody will be nightstopping in Shannon, or positioning anywhere. The schedule will allow LCY-SNN-JFK in a single duty and so that's what BA will do. A W pattern from LGW seems a fairly cost effective way of crewing the trip.
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For anyone who doesn't speak fluent BA:
That is this week's plan. The future could be as soon as next week.
It is also worth noting that, although this is the current thinking, with the ever-changing environment we find ourselves in this could be subject to change in the future.
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a 4 class 777 has 11 cabin crew not 10, in LGW.
I do not believe it's cheaper for BA to crew these flights with LGW based crew AT ALL, they are simply club world and airbus trained, and... with a W pattern crew will make much more in allowances than LHR, this already happens with 3 day trips to the USA ( east coast) from LGW.
I do not believe it's cheaper for BA to crew these flights with LGW based crew AT ALL, they are simply club world and airbus trained, and... with a W pattern crew will make much more in allowances than LHR, this already happens with 3 day trips to the USA ( east coast) from LGW.
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I do not believe it's cheaper for BA to crew these flights with LGW based crew AT ALL