Ba, Lcy-jfk
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According to a mate in crew scheduling the flight will operate with three crew. The crew will consist of 1 x purser and 2 x main crew. They will operate a W pattern as follows.
LGW/JFK/LCY/SNN/JFK.
They will nightstop JFK, nightstop LCY and nightstop again in JFK.
Trip duration six days.
As there will be two flights to LCY all the crew except the Cabin Manager and up to four main crew will just operate W trip. The rest will operate LGW/JFK/LGW
BA have also planned incase a main crew member was to go sick in JFK.
If this happens they will pull one off the 777 to LGW send that back one down. The crew member will then be given surface transport to LGW. So will still only be a 3 day trip duration. I
f a Purser goes sick, the Cabin Manager will be taken off 777 and one of the two pursers who would be on the 777 will take the aircraft back in charge.
For the return sector to JFK a standby will be called to position to LCY and ideally but not required nightstop in LCY, then operate LCY/SNN/JFK/LGW.
This would also be the case should a crew member go sick in LCY.
The three crew idea would work when it came to breaks as it would leave one on duty at the front and aft of the aircraft while the other one is on break.
Breaks being split into three as on current 767 flights.
For the cabin service it would mean the Purser running the galley and looking after the flight crew and 2 main crew in the cabin.
It is planned the crew will clear US formalities in SNN aswell.
LGW/JFK/LCY/SNN/JFK.
They will nightstop JFK, nightstop LCY and nightstop again in JFK.
Trip duration six days.
As there will be two flights to LCY all the crew except the Cabin Manager and up to four main crew will just operate W trip. The rest will operate LGW/JFK/LGW
BA have also planned incase a main crew member was to go sick in JFK.
If this happens they will pull one off the 777 to LGW send that back one down. The crew member will then be given surface transport to LGW. So will still only be a 3 day trip duration. I
f a Purser goes sick, the Cabin Manager will be taken off 777 and one of the two pursers who would be on the 777 will take the aircraft back in charge.
For the return sector to JFK a standby will be called to position to LCY and ideally but not required nightstop in LCY, then operate LCY/SNN/JFK/LGW.
This would also be the case should a crew member go sick in LCY.
The three crew idea would work when it came to breaks as it would leave one on duty at the front and aft of the aircraft while the other one is on break.
Breaks being split into three as on current 767 flights.
For the cabin service it would mean the Purser running the galley and looking after the flight crew and 2 main crew in the cabin.
It is planned the crew will clear US formalities in SNN aswell.
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Marlowe,
I'm rather offended by your post which was quite unneccessary.
I never said LCY crew are rubbish, not capable or badly trained. What I said was that they don't have a long haul operation in place at the moment and therefore don't have an agreement for it (MOA). Neither do they have training in the long haul Club product.
I tried explaining that with training, they are more than capable of doing the long haul service to NYC.
I would like to point out that I don't think I'm any better than LCY crew because I'm mainline. I'm sure that pretty much all LCY crew are great people, same as mainline. You saying that all mainline crew are po faced and miserable in their jobs is frankly ridiculous, as it's so far from the truth. Yes, there are people in all jobs around the world who may not be enjoying their job, but it is a minority.
After all, we are all colleagues, regardless which company we work for. Please bear that in mind.
Gg
Ps. For the person saying about me making up things about the MOA, I just said it needs to be adjusted/re-written. The talks are in progress as I'm typing and I obviously want the best result possible.
I'm rather offended by your post which was quite unneccessary.
I never said LCY crew are rubbish, not capable or badly trained. What I said was that they don't have a long haul operation in place at the moment and therefore don't have an agreement for it (MOA). Neither do they have training in the long haul Club product.
I tried explaining that with training, they are more than capable of doing the long haul service to NYC.
I would like to point out that I don't think I'm any better than LCY crew because I'm mainline. I'm sure that pretty much all LCY crew are great people, same as mainline. You saying that all mainline crew are po faced and miserable in their jobs is frankly ridiculous, as it's so far from the truth. Yes, there are people in all jobs around the world who may not be enjoying their job, but it is a minority.
After all, we are all colleagues, regardless which company we work for. Please bear that in mind.
Gg
Ps. For the person saying about me making up things about the MOA, I just said it needs to be adjusted/re-written. The talks are in progress as I'm typing and I obviously want the best result possible.
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The thing is Glamgirl you guys at mainline always thing that your contracts and terms and conditions and union agreements are going to protect you from future changes in the company, we are entering a changing future in the airline industry. If you take Cityflyer you have crew on lesser terms and conditions than mainline who are doing exactly the same job as you are, now if i was you i would be looking on this as a potential threat to my future terms and conditions at BA . The Cityflyer crews deal with as many gold card members in a week as you guys do, infact i would hazard a guess and say on some flights we do more than you. we do this under tighter constraints than you as well, we dont have the luxury of long cruise times. If you were an accountant looking at the new LCY/JFK route from your plush BA office would you want to be nightstopping crews in LCY the night before the trip then again in SNN and then again in JFK ? Or would you be looking for a way to keep the costs as low as possible on this route? Would you allow some old outdated agreements to get in the way of saving money? I think not . BAcityflyer as it stands, has NO union agreements in place at the moment hasnt had any for the 18 months its been in existance BA has been able to do what it likes with no union interference. So tell me what crew would you use Glamgirl if you were looking to crew this route ? A crew thats gonna hide behind agreements and cost a lot of money to run the route or a crew thats already in place with experience in serving high end customers with no union constraints to bog it down and all you have to do is give it a tiny bit more training that amounts to peanuts on cost . All your agreements didnt stop BA crewing Openskies with American based cabin crew did it?
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Lol.. British Airtours does sound Good 
At the end of the day the LCY-JFK route will be done by Gatwick crew,
I have been hearing at Gatwick that it will be 3 Purser's on the Airbus.
At the end of the day the LCY-JFK route will be done by Gatwick crew,
I have been hearing at Gatwick that it will be 3 Purser's on the Airbus.
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Flower duet why would you need 3 pursers? Virginia who says conditions are bad at Cityflyer? I just pointed out that terms and conditions are not the same as at mainline .
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Regarding this LCY JFK nothing yet has been decided apart from LGW crew operating the route . Dont think they would pull the Cabin Manager off the LGW flight to crew the LCY flight , they probably pull one of the two psrs on the route to operate it as per current agreement unless that changes!
Watch this space!!
Watch this space!!
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Originally Posted by marlowe
The thing is Glamgirl you guys at mainline always thing that your contracts and terms and conditions and union agreements are going to protect you from future changes in the company, we are entering a changing future in the airline industry
Originally Posted by marlowe
A crew thats gonna hide behind agreements and cost a lot of money to run the route or a crew thats already in place with experience in serving high end customers with no union constraints to bog it down and all you have to do is give it a tiny bit more training that amounts to peanuts on cost.
Before you go off half cocked at Glamgirl, may I suggest you read her previous posts, especially those regarding Columbus. You obviously know nothing at all about LGW. Have you any idea what our terms and agreements are? They aren't as great as you seem to think and, trust me, we know how easy it is for them to be eroded. Been there, done that, got the teeshirt. As for you suggesting it would take just a tiny bit more training to check you guys out for this trip, it probably would, but why would the company do that when we are already, as previously pointed out, checked on the airbus, have US visas and are experienced in the Club World product. I can assure you that Club Europe and Club World are two completely different things. And how do you know you work under tighter constraints than us? Have you ever worked at LGW. Are you aware that we nearly always operate with the legal minimum of crew on the 737? That on some short haul flights, we don't get a 4th crew member until the club load tops 30? That our flight times range from 35 mins to 10 hours?
You appear to be confusing LGW crew with LHR crew. We have completely different T&Cs and I suggest you check what they are before you start attacking us!
Jsl
Last edited by jetset lady; 3rd Sep 2008 at 20:36. Reason: spelling
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jetset lady so tell me what do you know about Cityflyer? as for learning the club world product please!!! How hard is that its not some secret art form that only certain people with special abilities can learn!! and as for an american visa how hard isthat to get? Hey they still give them away with cornflake packets! And yes i am fully aware that LGW is LHRs poor cousins. None of what you have pointed out changes the fact that if you wanted to run the LCY/JFK routes with the most cost effective cabin crew then you would use Cityflyer crew .
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marlowe,
I know very little about Cityflyer. However, I am not trying to claim I do, unlike yourself when it comes to LGW. At no point did I say the Club World service is hard to learn. I just said that we already know it. The same for US visas. We already have them. Why are you so convinced that we are all against you? You seem to insist on twisting our words.
Until you are able to have a sensible debate regarding this matter without the over use of exclamation marks, then I'm afraid, to borrow a phrase, I'm out.
Jsl
I know very little about Cityflyer. However, I am not trying to claim I do, unlike yourself when it comes to LGW. At no point did I say the Club World service is hard to learn. I just said that we already know it. The same for US visas. We already have them. Why are you so convinced that we are all against you? You seem to insist on twisting our words.
Until you are able to have a sensible debate regarding this matter without the over use of exclamation marks, then I'm afraid, to borrow a phrase, I'm out.
Jsl
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bye then . Thats the point though you have no idea about Cityflyer and its capabilities but you are convinced that only "mainline" are capable of doing the job simply because you have a bit of training and a visa, what Cityflyer has is no old and binding agreements that tie it into certain working practices ,now I am not saying thats a good thing, its just a product of not having any union agreements in place, but from management point of view thats counting the pennies, that makes the Cityflyer crew a cheap option without sacrificing standards onboard when operating flights, simple economics really .
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marlowe,
Where does it say that I am convinced that only mainline are capable of doing this route? No one, as far as I can tell, has said that. This is what I am talking about when I say you are putting words in our mouths. I, along with others, was trying to say why I think the management made the descision they did. I'm sure they have made a cost analysis of all the options. Anyway, who knows what will happen by the time it is due to start.
As previously said, no one is trying to attack you. You seem to be taking this whole thing as a personal attack against Cityflyer. It's not.
Jsl
Where does it say that I am convinced that only mainline are capable of doing this route? No one, as far as I can tell, has said that. This is what I am talking about when I say you are putting words in our mouths. I, along with others, was trying to say why I think the management made the descision they did. I'm sure they have made a cost analysis of all the options. Anyway, who knows what will happen by the time it is due to start.
As previously said, no one is trying to attack you. You seem to be taking this whole thing as a personal attack against Cityflyer. It's not.
Jsl
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Marlowe I really must point out how ironic it is that you seem to think it's a good thing that you have no binding agreements of union representation. What exactly about this makes you think you are such an attractive option to BA? Or perhaps we're seeing a little green eyed monster here. For what it's worth have always thought you guys did an excellent job at lcy and edi but you do yourself and your colleagues a complete injustice by attacking everyone for no reason.
People have simply pointed out that Gatwick fleet ifs win the bid to crew the service and have made some guesses as to why is we are trained on longhaul and the club product already and are also airbus qualified and hold us visas nobody said you couldn't do these things either just that, currently, the company feels our fleet made the most attractive tender.
Now please, whatever old wound you seem to be licking, stop.
People have simply pointed out that Gatwick fleet ifs win the bid to crew the service and have made some guesses as to why is we are trained on longhaul and the club product already and are also airbus qualified and hold us visas nobody said you couldn't do these things either just that, currently, the company feels our fleet made the most attractive tender.
Now please, whatever old wound you seem to be licking, stop.
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oh hello you back? Look its not an attack on mainline as you put it far from it all i am say is that if you wanted to run the LCY/JFK with the most cost effective crew you would use Cityflyer crew simple as that, but you and others then spout on about the fact that you have Visas and can do world club services and all that, as if that is the most important thing. Do you honestly think that this service is gonna be six days, with 3 pursers ,nightstopping in LCY then SNN then JFK ? Now wether you are LHR or LGW crew you will never be as cheap and flexible as the Cityflyer crews you cant be fact. BUT its easy to take a cheaper crew give it the training and a visa and let them do it. From the management point of view you then get the same service onboard your aircraft but are paying less for it.
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Matt, if you had really read my post you would have read that i said it was a by product of no union agreements i never said that was a good thing just an exploitable area that could be used by BA . As for being green eyed well there blue if you must know! Because there are no agreements in place and with Cityflyer having a different pay structure, trips are cheaper for the company. If Cityflyer crews were used then they would only be paid flight duty pay of £2.20 taxed for the whole trip no trigger payments or other payments for anything, just FDP, so from a pure economic point of view then cityflyer crews are the cheapest option .
Last edited by marlowe; 3rd Sep 2008 at 22:52.