strike1

For Magic, well we might not be able to achive much, (if people fall into VS bribery and go to work! which i can see alot of people doing,rather than take the pathetic 200 quid and maybe better off in january why dont the look at what we could achive for the future,) but at least we will show Virgin that people like me, and there´s lots, that have been working hard, put up with every excuse for years, are no longer happy to accept, and infact are so pissed off that are willing to risk, work, money etc to show Virgin that enough is enough, and if we dont do it, then nobody will and VS will carry on taking the piss!
Someone said that BA is recruiting why dont we go.. I have served 12 years + with VS and do not want to go, FULL STOP, why should I, i just want to be recognized.
Its amazing i flew BA the other day, ground staff, crew, everyone was so supportive and told me that we should stand up and fight, i even got upgraded to club as a show of support, and yet in my own airline i have to read and hear comments on how selfish we are, how we are destroying the airline etc.... its terrible, and thats the " virgin spirit , family atmosphere" that management drum us in day in day out!!!
This job is already going down the drain, and it will get worse and worse if we dont start doing something about it now, or one day we will wake up, and be working for " MCdonals in the air"

virgin6670

For those of you that have heard the rumours that one of the reps has stood down. I would like to confirm that they are true. I Paul Powell rep of 6 yrs and ex-chair took this decision on the 24th Dec 2007.
I would like to say a big thank-you to my ex colleagues on the union committee and wish them all the best in their efforts to try and resolve the current situation.
Regards
Paul Powell

greigok

Why did you choose to step down...any reasons for that?

virgin6670

This was a long and agonising decision to make. I stood in the crew room in the month of Oct advising the crew to accept the offer that was on the table. In all 5 ballots that took place over a 1,000 members did not use their ballot paper. In the last ballot for industrial action still a 1,000 plus did not return their ballot papers. Listening to those that voted to take industrial action, many indicated to me that they would go to work. The message I took from this is that they wanted the Reps to stand on the picket line while they continued to work. Even now the Reps have been receiving emails and texts indicating there is no real appetite for industrial action. As a person of principle and values I could not ask the people to accept the offer with one breath, and with the next breath ask them to go out on strike because 61% of those who bothered to return their ballot paper did not accept the offer. This is approimately 30% of the entire union membership.
I respect all of those people whom returned their ballot, regardless of which way they voted. I also have respect for those Reps which remain on the committee and are committed to finding a resolve. Personally I have stood on the committee from 1999 and feel that now is the right time for me to move on. I hope the crew will respect my deceision.

greigok

I fully respect your decision and do agree that people have had the option to voice there support either way with the ballott papers and alot did not send there's back.

It's all very well to voice an opinion on a crew forum, but they should of been voiced on the ballott papers too.

Thanks for posting ur comments.

SKYMAN

Strike1

"Its amazing i flew BA the other day, ground staff, crew, everyone was so supportive and told me that we should stand up and fight"

Of course they were, they want us to strike because they benefit big time from the pax we carry having to fly with them. They want Virgin to be front page news, but not to help you (they really don't care), but to help themselves. Get real!

As it happens the pax can stay with Virgin as they will fly as per normal.

Dan Air 87

This industrial action is a tragedy; I would urge those involved to look at other organisations that have had strikes which have changed for the worse. Look at Alitalia. Yes they have had strikes which have crippled the company and what has been the result? Has the strike action worked? Have the unions got what they wanted? The answer is they haven't which is one of the reasons why they are beng absorbed by KLM-AF. Is that what you really want to see happen to your airline?

VS-LHRCSA

I've worked for both companies and am now at BA. If I was to give my support to Virgin crew, which I do, the absolute LAST thing I would be thinking about would be "now is our chance to steal their passengers" or something like SKYMAN is implying. I would be saddened to think that anyone at VS would think that of BA staff. BA management might be thinking that, just like I'm sure VS management were thinking back in February 07, when BA crew were about to strike but your average everyday BA staff member would want nothing but the best outcome for the Virgin crew. How can that be turned into something selfish?

strike1

Skyman, like vs-lhr says ba crew dont give two monkeys if they get more pax or not!!! what world do u live in man? they are just collegues who know very well ,that we do exactly the same flights, working more than they do, and we get paid f,.. all compared to them, so they actually do care , which is something i cant say, for even my own collegues never mind other virgin emploees!!!
Really some people here should really get out of the virgin world a bit more.... i mean have you all been to some kind of virgin secret ritual where u do not see anything but "virgin family, virgin flair, virgin spirit" i know VS is a brainwashing machine but come on!!!!!

Viewfrom5Bells

What folks should remember is that a fuel hedges are about run about for most airlines and fuel will start to be bought at the equivalent of $100 per barrel. Fair chance of route reductions and redundancies by the end of the year by all but the most efficient airlines. Bad time to think about striking.

leisurelad

Well guys, having read this thread with much interest, as with any company, if things are that bad, look elsewhere. I mean, you can allways go and work for easyjet working 6 days on 3 days off quite often 4 sector days seeing madrid airport for 30 mins. They probably don't earn much more than you guys, if anything.

Virgin is virgin and to be honest should not be compared to other airlines. I don't know many airlines that you can just swap trips willy nilly and plan your roster around how you wish to live. My housemates roster is 4-5 trips a month, quite often only ends up doing 2 or 3 by swapping and using the system to their advantage.

You guys get to travel the world and have seen and done things most people will never get the chance to do. Whilst living in the virgin world (i dont care about anything else) which is quite common, just stop and think about how your way of life compares to many others the UK.

Before you all come down on me like a ton of bricks, just re read the above and think before replying. And no, i don't work for vigin but have been in aviation for many years and am fortunate enough to be in happy comfortable surroundings.

Take care and happy flying

vs_lhr

Actually, EasyJet earn about £5K+ more than VS crew on average, but as you point out, the lifestyle is totally different, so it's apples and oranges.

leisurelad

Thanks vs_lhr, didn't realise they earnt that much more but basic pay wise, i think is not much difference.

Personally i doubt the vs crew will end up with a good deal. The amount of money that is/has been spent with reprotecting passengers etc for the flights that they have cancelled so far, plus the extra money the crew will get who work on strike days probably equates to what a 2-3% pay rise is. I'm not sure on the actual figures so forgive me if it is way way out.

With that kinda money gone, if they do end up giving you a pay rise, im sure there will be many strings attached to it and costs will be scrutinised in every way. Crew Benefits will prob be the first to go.

Again, just re think about all the striking and what effect it will have in the long term.

scoobydooo

Doh, that will be the excuse for no payrise in 2008 then ! A long term plan needs to be put in place, otherwise things are going to get worse every year, imagine the rapid rate of crew phoning in sick and productivity and customer experience declining it wont be long before the comapny name turns to mud, vflyer is already full of bad experiences as morale declines at a rapid rate. I hope the company can see this. By not offering a deal this year I think would be as fatal if not more damaging in the long run financially than the strike action alone.

A deal now with a plan moving forward, otherwise things will get a whole lot worse for passengers, revenue, crew, managers - in short, everyone.

Failing a deal I am more than happy to support the union and crew by continuing and accepting more strike dates, take it to half term I say if the company wont sit and talk and offer us an acceptable deal . There wouldnt be much point in staying at virgin if the crew dont support the union as over the next few years things will be terrible, the terribleometer will go off the scale for everyone.

scoobydooo

frangipans posts are fantastic, ah... to have a command of the english language like that !!

greigok

Funny scooby how ur so confident about strikes and yet you have not commented on Paul Powell an old ex chair of the union reps standing down.

Im afraid if this carries on where the crew with the biggest mouths are saying there going to strike and then there mailing the union and texting them saying it's not worth it....well think it's going to fall to pieces. You will have no union reps then.

Perhaps u shld be a union rep urself!

But try commenting on Paul's post who has been here probably alot longer than you. If you want to have a argument have it with him.

The 2nd strike will not go ahead..as most will go to work for the first.

Don't bother coming back with any childish insults either.

Cheers

scoobydooo

Greigkok

I haven't really got time or the inclination to comment on every post here, neither do I wish to 'argue' with any poster as you put it, I will however debate and discuss issues.

As for becoming a rep, I am toying with the idea and was just yesterday wondering what I would put in my manifesto.

Stating, that the 2nd strike wont go ahead as the first will be full of strike breakers is speculation, nothing more, nothing less.

I always try and look at a situation from all perspectives, a few posts back I put the "company hat" hat on and looked at what they are trying to achieve and possible ways in doing this. I dont pretend to have all or indeed any of the answers but we both know that it take both sides willing to negotiate if there will ever be any progress made. We must ask ourselves do we think both sides are prepared to talk at the moment ? I for one know the union is prepared to avoid passenger disruption and its' doors are open, however it would appear the company is not and is more than happy to disrupt the passengers by engaging in a game of 'hardball'.

So with all the best will in the world if the union made some radical changes improving communication with its members and all sorts of other things, it would be a lot of wasted resource if the company has no intention whatsoever in actually trying to fix any of the many problems that exist, I haven't even heard the company acknowledge there are any problems to us directly or through the union, a bit like an ostrich with its head buried deep.

Paul, I thank you for all your efforts over the years and the work you have put in to help the union achieve the recognition it has to date. You are clearly a man of integrity which is why you felt that you could not suddenly change your tune, trying to convince and recommending people accept the offers put forward by the union (even if perhaps you didn't agree with them personally, but as a rep had to tow the union line), then having to stand at the same checkin and say to the same faces now is the time to strike.

Paul may I ask if it shocked you the outcome to the last pay vote ?

Paul has also indicated that circa 1000 members did not cast a vote in all 5 votes, from this we could almost say that it is the 'norm' to have 1000 votes abstaining from voting for whatever reason and as such should maybe discount/write these off from our overall interpretations of the outcome. Whilst this is enormously frustrating for everyone we can learn from this, and moving forward try to engage the importance of every single voting right to our members through more regular communications, it is only through educating and informing the union members how important their votes are and that they will actually make a difference that things will change, otherwise it will be the norm to have circa 1000 votes non returned for ever more.

As for Paul being approached by members who said they will vote for industrial action, whilst also indicating they will come to work, I am disappointed. However that said after all sorts of rumours that certain influential parties were being offered cash to try and get a company favourable outcome of the vote perhaps people felt the path of least resistance was to say they will be going to work.

Who knows, only time will tell and come 3 days time we can stop speculating and will know what the real picture is. I still feel that the company stating to pax and press that only 3 of its services will be disrupted is setting itself up for a fall, if 4 services are disrupted does that make the company look silly? never mind 5,6 10 etc etc

Paul, what impact do you feel there will be on the union and any future negotiations and union representation moving forward if crew do not stick together and carryout the strike dates ? editeded to add Indeed do you agree with the strikes or is it a further reason for your resignation ?

Paul, I wish you all the best and if you would like to p.m. to discuss feel free.



I further refer people to the post vs_lhr made pointing to http://www.v-flyer.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22443&whichpage=12 frankipans pots on v-flyer explaining clearly the errors of ways both sides have made in this whole debacle.

greigok

Thanx for the response. I do actually think it will just be the three flights affected. If indeed it is though, then the 2nd strike will more than likely not go ahead.

But will have to wait and see, not long to go now anyway.

Cheers Scooby

back2front

Maybe VS needs to stop expanding its network and get back to basics. You only have to look at V-Flyer to see that VS can't get the small things right:

Broken UCS seats
Crap food
Lack of choice of bad food
Non existant freedom menu
Dirty cabin
crap amenity kit
not even bothering to load the crap amenity kit

and I'm adding:
Unedible food in economy (sometimes can't even tell what it is supposed to be)
Running out of drinks in economy and warm drinks (why can't VS refresh the bars on turnaround? other airlines manage to)
Very poor on time performance.
Stop overpromising as invetiably we can't provide what is shown in the ads.

Its become embarrasing and a group needs to be set up by the company to overlook where and why things are going wrong.

A quick calculation:

VS have ordered 15 787 aircraft at a list price of £75million each, no doubt they will get a discount but based on £75m / 4000 staff thats £18750 per staff member. If they cancelled a 787 VS could afford to pay a £390 per month Gross increase over 4 years. This would bring us inline with BA and some of the charter airlines.

Maybe I'm just being naive but cancelling one aircraft order could solve the pay problem and slowing expansion could solve the problems blighting the passengers and crew on a daily basis.

greigok

Bring in you line with BA i don't think so..like it has been said so many times on here...do not compare yourself to BA. VS is the only airline that just does long haul. You have no one to compare it to.