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Preunzeuss,
I don’t know if you understand what rhetoric is but my posts are hardly that. I would also like you to point out examples of my abuse. I have certainly used parody as a method to make my point but that is certainly not abuse. If you want to read abuse then I suggest you read some of Guardians and Eden’s post.
I understand fully the problems facing unions but continually giving in does nothing. A company like ours only understands determination and a willingness to stand up for your rights. If they think they have you on the back foot and they see you publicly admitting that your cost base is too much etc…then they will crucify you.
The reason I am using the JFK shuttle as an example is twofold. First is that the FAAA caved in and told all crew they had to vote yes or we would lose our jobs. DO you think for a second that those in the office had smiles on their faces because they had already won?
Secondly the tech crew have identified fatigue as an issue. If we were able to prove that the shuttle is dangerous on those grounds then we have put the company into a difficult position. If they chose to replace us with AKL crew for example we could and should mount a publicity campaign to show how stupid and reckless the company was acting. CASA and the media would be asking questions and if we had tangible proof of a dangerous level of fatigue then I believe we could win.
Of course Pegasus/Eden and Guardian will post now that I don’t know what I’m talking about but then again they don’t want to admit they are possibly wrong and look stupid so they will never do this and this is why I’m continually criticizing them for their methods.
Roaming wolf came up with a good idea and I notice that none of the FAAA has mentioned it. At the very least crew after completing the shuttle and falling asleep on the bus have to wait fore the tech crew who have to go to collect their bags. WHY doesn’t the FAAA ask for separate transport after the shuttle if the tech crew are delayed. If the tech crew are going to be delayed they can catch a cab or similar.
The FAAA don’t ask for anything they are like the cartoon of Elmer Fudd tip toeing past a huge dog trying to be quiet.
“Be Vewy Vewy Qwiet…SHHHH I’m twying to find the Wabbit and not wake the Dog”
The tech crew union have gor their members something but what do we get from the FAAA….MUFFIN MORNINGS…
The next thing we know will be recipes on the union website
I don’t know if you understand what rhetoric is but my posts are hardly that. I would also like you to point out examples of my abuse. I have certainly used parody as a method to make my point but that is certainly not abuse. If you want to read abuse then I suggest you read some of Guardians and Eden’s post.
I understand fully the problems facing unions but continually giving in does nothing. A company like ours only understands determination and a willingness to stand up for your rights. If they think they have you on the back foot and they see you publicly admitting that your cost base is too much etc…then they will crucify you.
The reason I am using the JFK shuttle as an example is twofold. First is that the FAAA caved in and told all crew they had to vote yes or we would lose our jobs. DO you think for a second that those in the office had smiles on their faces because they had already won?
Secondly the tech crew have identified fatigue as an issue. If we were able to prove that the shuttle is dangerous on those grounds then we have put the company into a difficult position. If they chose to replace us with AKL crew for example we could and should mount a publicity campaign to show how stupid and reckless the company was acting. CASA and the media would be asking questions and if we had tangible proof of a dangerous level of fatigue then I believe we could win.
Of course Pegasus/Eden and Guardian will post now that I don’t know what I’m talking about but then again they don’t want to admit they are possibly wrong and look stupid so they will never do this and this is why I’m continually criticizing them for their methods.
Roaming wolf came up with a good idea and I notice that none of the FAAA has mentioned it. At the very least crew after completing the shuttle and falling asleep on the bus have to wait fore the tech crew who have to go to collect their bags. WHY doesn’t the FAAA ask for separate transport after the shuttle if the tech crew are delayed. If the tech crew are going to be delayed they can catch a cab or similar.
The FAAA don’t ask for anything they are like the cartoon of Elmer Fudd tip toeing past a huge dog trying to be quiet.
“Be Vewy Vewy Qwiet…SHHHH I’m twying to find the Wabbit and not wake the Dog”
The tech crew union have gor their members something but what do we get from the FAAA….MUFFIN MORNINGS…
The next thing we know will be recipes on the union website
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Lowerlobe,
You dont seem to realise that even when you have a good idea you do yourself constant discredit by posting it on here.
If you believe that we need seperate transport you need to write an ICAN like everyone else. The FAAA takes their copy of the ICAN like they do for every issue raised and use it to demonstrate empiracle evidence that there is an issue.
One person alone suggesting something doesnt necessarily mean that the company will act. They will also not just act on something because the FAAA says so.
The first thing they would say is where is the complaints. No iCAns no emails etc.
I actually think that seperate transport would be meritous if it can be demonstrated that there is an ondgoing problem.
Why dont you write to the the base manager and copy in the FAAA with your suggestion. I think its a good one.
You actually might be taken seriously if you lost your invective and bitterness.
And btw the Muffin morning was the concept of the previous leadership and is being brought back at the request of the members.
The only difference here is that FAAA have an office close to the base now and we are not beholding to qantas to hold the discussions on their premises or in their "BUGGED" rooms.
Make no mistake the recent renovations included all the latest in listening devices. At least that's what i have been told and as such am very careful about what i say in a briefing room
You dont seem to realise that even when you have a good idea you do yourself constant discredit by posting it on here.
If you believe that we need seperate transport you need to write an ICAN like everyone else. The FAAA takes their copy of the ICAN like they do for every issue raised and use it to demonstrate empiracle evidence that there is an issue.
One person alone suggesting something doesnt necessarily mean that the company will act. They will also not just act on something because the FAAA says so.
The first thing they would say is where is the complaints. No iCAns no emails etc.
I actually think that seperate transport would be meritous if it can be demonstrated that there is an ondgoing problem.
Why dont you write to the the base manager and copy in the FAAA with your suggestion. I think its a good one.
You actually might be taken seriously if you lost your invective and bitterness.
And btw the Muffin morning was the concept of the previous leadership and is being brought back at the request of the members.
The only difference here is that FAAA have an office close to the base now and we are not beholding to qantas to hold the discussions on their premises or in their "BUGGED" rooms.
Make no mistake the recent renovations included all the latest in listening devices. At least that's what i have been told and as such am very careful about what i say in a briefing room
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Phillip Adams speaks of a once proud company.........
......and the corporate criminals about to make obscene wealth by flogging it off.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-12272,00.html
Morale.......? If only people knew the truth.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-12272,00.html
Morale.......? If only people knew the truth.
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Pegasus ,
Do you know the meaning of the term invective?
If so show some examples that I have used!
As far as being bitter is concerned it couldn't be further from the truth.I may be disillusioned at your lack of leadership and curious about your motivation and direction but not bitter.
By the way your analogy of the AICCA and the AFAA is a very poor one.The 75% stand down was not lost because the company decided to sit down with them and not the boys union.It was because the AICCA stuck their head in the sand and said it won't happen.They were effectively out manoeuvred by the company and the girls union was the company's vassal.If the AICCA had put an effective proposal to the company and arbitration it would not have turned out the way it did.Basically the company told arbitration that two out the 3 parties had agreed so it went through.
The company did not win..WE LOST..they out played the union because of their arrogance...sound familiar
Do you know the meaning of the term invective?
If so show some examples that I have used!
As far as being bitter is concerned it couldn't be further from the truth.I may be disillusioned at your lack of leadership and curious about your motivation and direction but not bitter.
By the way your analogy of the AICCA and the AFAA is a very poor one.The 75% stand down was not lost because the company decided to sit down with them and not the boys union.It was because the AICCA stuck their head in the sand and said it won't happen.They were effectively out manoeuvred by the company and the girls union was the company's vassal.If the AICCA had put an effective proposal to the company and arbitration it would not have turned out the way it did.Basically the company told arbitration that two out the 3 parties had agreed so it went through.
The company did not win..WE LOST..they out played the union because of their arrogance...sound familiar
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RW ,
You are 100% correct and I fell over with the bit about someones lights being on but she's not at home.
I understand exactly what you are saying about the 300's on the NRT's.The Japanese pax are very discerning as we were told ad nauseum by the company and even given a cultural lesson one night before sign on.
To say the Japanese and most people I suppose disliked the 300 would be an understatement.Now with our motto of "yesterdays technology tomorro" they are putting them on an important market yet again.
They are bad enough on domestic flights and really should be made into something useful like beer cans.
The Japanese like the latest of everything and to turn up at the airport and see something that should be in a museum is typical.
The funny part is the company spokesperson here AGAIN defends the company.
TWIGGS....Is the company putting the classic on the NRT flights...YES or NO....not maybe or only for a few flights....YES or NO......simple question really
You are 100% correct and I fell over with the bit about someones lights being on but she's not at home.
I understand exactly what you are saying about the 300's on the NRT's.The Japanese pax are very discerning as we were told ad nauseum by the company and even given a cultural lesson one night before sign on.
To say the Japanese and most people I suppose disliked the 300 would be an understatement.Now with our motto of "yesterdays technology tomorro" they are putting them on an important market yet again.
They are bad enough on domestic flights and really should be made into something useful like beer cans.
The Japanese like the latest of everything and to turn up at the airport and see something that should be in a museum is typical.
The funny part is the company spokesperson here AGAIN defends the company.
TWIGGS....Is the company putting the classic on the NRT flights...YES or NO....not maybe or only for a few flights....YES or NO......simple question really
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Twiggs,
I asked a simple question that I thought even you could comprehend.
Let's see if you try it this time.....
Is the company using an antiquated aircraft in a market that they want to increase......YES or NO............
The lights are on but.........
The company tells us that the Japanese market is one that not only do they want to keep but increase.They used the 300's for years to Japan and had more complaints than you could jump over.The Japanese want the latest and if you have ever been to a Japanese technology show you might understand and in fact you probably do.However as usual you are pushing the company line but then only you can speak for the majority of crew.....ehh Twiggs
I asked a simple question that I thought even you could comprehend.
Let's see if you try it this time.....
Is the company using an antiquated aircraft in a market that they want to increase......YES or NO............
The lights are on but.........
The company tells us that the Japanese market is one that not only do they want to keep but increase.They used the 300's for years to Japan and had more complaints than you could jump over.The Japanese want the latest and if you have ever been to a Japanese technology show you might understand and in fact you probably do.However as usual you are pushing the company line but then only you can speak for the majority of crew.....ehh Twiggs
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'had a gutfull !
Don't know about you guys on here, but I've had a gutfull of this whole tawdry "hostie in the loo" affair.
Again the image and reputation of Qantas L/H crew takes a battering because of some -----------
who is /was never employed by Qantas.
She is the product of the Jit Conneect recruitment sham ( in which they recruit from a resource pool in Auckland that hit rock bottom about 3 years ago!!!-quality candidates go to Air NZ)
Then, naturally she wants to return to Oz to fly for mainline, but again she goes thru the FLAWED external recruitment sham -called MAM ( again from a very depleted candidate pool -as there conditions -Contract -C ...are pathetic.)
So this is the result.
SHAME ON YOU QANTAS HR.
This sorry saga would not have happened IF we kept the whole recruitment operation -inhouse ( Qantas crew recruiting qantas crew ) , offered decent award conditions and treated the Flight attendant community with professionalism-NOT how its now being portrayed as:
BIMBO'S WHO ENTICE MOVIE STARS INTO LOO'S-as part of the full service airline offering-ha ha ha very funny.
Both Sunday rags today have EXCLUSIVE'S on the matter!
I have had it..... putting up with smart arsed pax cracking a jokes about hostie's in loo's.-BORING !!!!
Anyway, if ever you need an example of this whole overseas basing, MAM thing dragging the brand down this is it !
Who gets the blame????? Not Management
Its the Aussie Hostie/Stewardess/Flight Attendant community.
Nice one Lisa.
Again the image and reputation of Qantas L/H crew takes a battering because of some -----------
who is /was never employed by Qantas.She is the product of the Jit Conneect recruitment sham ( in which they recruit from a resource pool in Auckland that hit rock bottom about 3 years ago!!!-quality candidates go to Air NZ)
Then, naturally she wants to return to Oz to fly for mainline, but again she goes thru the FLAWED external recruitment sham -called MAM ( again from a very depleted candidate pool -as there conditions -Contract -C ...are pathetic.)
So this is the result.
SHAME ON YOU QANTAS HR.
This sorry saga would not have happened IF we kept the whole recruitment operation -inhouse ( Qantas crew recruiting qantas crew ) , offered decent award conditions and treated the Flight attendant community with professionalism-NOT how its now being portrayed as:
BIMBO'S WHO ENTICE MOVIE STARS INTO LOO'S-as part of the full service airline offering-ha ha ha very funny.
Both Sunday rags today have EXCLUSIVE'S on the matter!
I have had it..... putting up with smart arsed pax cracking a jokes about hostie's in loo's.-BORING !!!!
Anyway, if ever you need an example of this whole overseas basing, MAM thing dragging the brand down this is it !
Who gets the blame????? Not Management
Its the Aussie Hostie/Stewardess/Flight Attendant community.
Nice one Lisa.
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Yes lowerlobe, for 2/56=3.5% of the next bid period.
Anyway, lobe and wolf, did you stop to think that there may be a commercial reason for this change?
Maybe there is been a large booking on those dates warranting the increase in capacity?
No surely not, Qantas just wanted to piss off you too and give you more fodder to bag them.
Anyway, lobe and wolf, did you stop to think that there may be a commercial reason for this change?
Maybe there is been a large booking on those dates warranting the increase in capacity?
No surely not, Qantas just wanted to piss off you too and give you more fodder to bag them.
Last edited by twiggs; 18th Feb 2007 at 09:33. Reason: added possible scenario.
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The Saga
actually RM to add insult she was originally employed in SYD as a strikebreaker and then offered the job as AKL based crew.
our friend Midnight will confirm this!
our friend Midnight will confirm this!
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here we ago again....
just released, she has admintted it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=227916
Fiennes said he was sorry but he couldn't help her, then explained that his life had been "ruined" by the tabloids before.
"You're just a hostess and you don't even like your job ... you can get another job," he apparently told her.
Robertson said she felt "humiliated" and like a "low-life" but, while she was angry, she ended the conversation on good terms
hmmmmmmmmmm
just released, she has admintted it
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=227916
Fiennes said he was sorry but he couldn't help her, then explained that his life had been "ruined" by the tabloids before.
"You're just a hostess and you don't even like your job ... you can get another job," he apparently told her.
Robertson said she felt "humiliated" and like a "low-life" but, while she was angry, she ended the conversation on good terms
hmmmmmmmmmm
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Geez by the look of her in that uniform he must have been desperate !!
Anyway she might lose some of that money, Qantas will likely sue her for breach of contract .... she has made statements to the press about what happened on a Qantas flight, and as an employee contracted to Qantas, it's clear breach of her contract. Qantas Legal department will be rubbing their hands together in anticipation.
The only person I feel sorry for is the CSM on the flight, the papers published her name, and all she was doing was what was expected of her from the company ie her job! And her name has been published (probably cos this slapper leaked her response addressing the company's allegations to the press, and she was looking for some quick $$)
This woman show's no morals, has proven herself a lier, and has brought the company into disrepute. I say go Qantas, they should sue her.
What a skanky
Anyway she might lose some of that money, Qantas will likely sue her for breach of contract .... she has made statements to the press about what happened on a Qantas flight, and as an employee contracted to Qantas, it's clear breach of her contract. Qantas Legal department will be rubbing their hands together in anticipation.
The only person I feel sorry for is the CSM on the flight, the papers published her name, and all she was doing was what was expected of her from the company ie her job! And her name has been published (probably cos this slapper leaked her response addressing the company's allegations to the press, and she was looking for some quick $$)
This woman show's no morals, has proven herself a lier, and has brought the company into disrepute. I say go Qantas, they should sue her.
What a skanky
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Qantas can't sue her, she has not told the press any confidential information relating to the company or those that work there. And of course she was casual, so legally her engagement with QF ended at the sign off of each trip.
As Stubby pointed out, this is a result of Qantas' greed and it has come back to bite them in the arse..... so, who looks more stupid?
As Stubby pointed out, this is a result of Qantas' greed and it has come back to bite them in the arse..... so, who looks more stupid?
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Midnight/Stubby…etc…
If ever there was proof of the saying “You get what you pay for”…This is it…The sad part of the whole thing apart from the woman in question is that I bet bookings for QF would have gone up as a result of all this with some desperate types dreaming of someone dragging them into the toilet on a flight.
I don’t know what her dad was talking about though because after looking at her pic you can only blame alcohol/jetlag/altitude or maybe the cabin was dark and the light in the toilet wasn’t working….
I noticed that the Brit paper was talking about medication so that will be dragged into her argument…Anyway……
Twiggs/Company spokesperson…,
Quote… “Anyway, lobe and wolf, did you stop to think that there may be a commercial reason for this change?
Maybe there is been a large booking on those dates warranting the increase in capacity?”
Twiggs did you read my post or did you just go off half cocked as usual just to start an argument.I said that the 300 was antiquated and should be in a museum and that the Japanese like the latest in everything.
Then you come back with another pearl….A need for increase in capacity…..
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 747-400 ????????????????????
This is up there with It’s the destination not the….
And No one can claim to represent the majority..only me…
If ever there was proof of the saying “You get what you pay for”…This is it…The sad part of the whole thing apart from the woman in question is that I bet bookings for QF would have gone up as a result of all this with some desperate types dreaming of someone dragging them into the toilet on a flight.
I don’t know what her dad was talking about though because after looking at her pic you can only blame alcohol/jetlag/altitude or maybe the cabin was dark and the light in the toilet wasn’t working….
I noticed that the Brit paper was talking about medication so that will be dragged into her argument…Anyway……
Twiggs/Company spokesperson…,
Quote… “Anyway, lobe and wolf, did you stop to think that there may be a commercial reason for this change?
Maybe there is been a large booking on those dates warranting the increase in capacity?”
Twiggs did you read my post or did you just go off half cocked as usual just to start an argument.I said that the 300 was antiquated and should be in a museum and that the Japanese like the latest in everything.
Then you come back with another pearl….A need for increase in capacity…..
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 747-400 ????????????????????
This is up there with It’s the destination not the….
And No one can claim to represent the majority..only me…
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Then you come back with another pearl….A need for increase in capacity…..
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 747-400 ????????????????????
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A 747-400 ????????????????????
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A familiar sound
Agree or we outsource 1700 jobs, Air NZ warns unions
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
February 16, 2007
THE outlook for 1700 Air New Zealand workers remained grim yesterday after the airline again warned it would outsource their jobs unless all unions representing them agreed to concessions.
The Kiwi carrier has been at loggerheads with the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union and the Service and Food Workers Union over threats to outsource airport services to Spanish company Swissport.
The unions have been told the 1675 customer service and loading staff will be outsourced to Swissport, at a saving of $NZ20 million ($17.5 million) a year, unless workers agree to significant changes to their terms and conditions.
The parties have so far been unable to broker an agreement that would allow the work at Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch airports to remain in-house. The airline said yesterday that discussions with the EPMU were continuing but the SFWU had said it would not pursue talks.
Air NZ group general manager, people, Vanessa Stoddart said yesterday that unless the membership of all unions ratified a common solution the outsourcing would proceed.
"The conflicting union positions create a difficult situation," she said.
"One union may get support from its members for a satisfactory in-house solution, while the other doesn't support it.
"Naturally we can't have one group of Air New Zealanders on incompatible terms and conditions to the others, so we would be left with no option but to outsource."
Air NZ's ground handling staff are covered by collective agreements that are in force until June 30 but the airline has been pressuring unions since last May to make concessions. The airline denies that the move to outsourcing will lead to a drop in skill levels and says Swissport is committed to taking as many Air New Zealand staff as possible into its workforce.
But the SFWU said a recent survey of members at Auckland International Airport showed that more than half would not transfer to Swissport if outsourcing proceeded.
"This is because they are not prepared to work at all hours of the night and weekends without penalty rates and on a lower hourly rate," union official Jill Ovens said.
Ms Stoddart said outsourcing airport ground handling services was nothing new for Air New Zealand.
"We outsource the work at many of our regional New Zealand airports, at all our Australian airports and at other key offshore locations such as Los Angeles and London," she said.
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
February 16, 2007
THE outlook for 1700 Air New Zealand workers remained grim yesterday after the airline again warned it would outsource their jobs unless all unions representing them agreed to concessions.
The Kiwi carrier has been at loggerheads with the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union and the Service and Food Workers Union over threats to outsource airport services to Spanish company Swissport.
The unions have been told the 1675 customer service and loading staff will be outsourced to Swissport, at a saving of $NZ20 million ($17.5 million) a year, unless workers agree to significant changes to their terms and conditions.
The parties have so far been unable to broker an agreement that would allow the work at Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch airports to remain in-house. The airline said yesterday that discussions with the EPMU were continuing but the SFWU had said it would not pursue talks.
Air NZ group general manager, people, Vanessa Stoddart said yesterday that unless the membership of all unions ratified a common solution the outsourcing would proceed.
"The conflicting union positions create a difficult situation," she said.
"One union may get support from its members for a satisfactory in-house solution, while the other doesn't support it.
"Naturally we can't have one group of Air New Zealanders on incompatible terms and conditions to the others, so we would be left with no option but to outsource."
Air NZ's ground handling staff are covered by collective agreements that are in force until June 30 but the airline has been pressuring unions since last May to make concessions. The airline denies that the move to outsourcing will lead to a drop in skill levels and says Swissport is committed to taking as many Air New Zealand staff as possible into its workforce.
But the SFWU said a recent survey of members at Auckland International Airport showed that more than half would not transfer to Swissport if outsourcing proceeded.
"This is because they are not prepared to work at all hours of the night and weekends without penalty rates and on a lower hourly rate," union official Jill Ovens said.
Ms Stoddart said outsourcing airport ground handling services was nothing new for Air New Zealand.
"We outsource the work at many of our regional New Zealand airports, at all our Australian airports and at other key offshore locations such as Los Angeles and London," she said.
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If it’s not Twiggs it’s BA and I don’t know which is morer wronger…ehh BA
A couple of points BA a classic has not got the same range as a 400.
The distance from SYD to NRT is less than SYD to LAX and therefore IF you think about it a 400 could not do a LAX return in the same time as it does a NRT return…What were you saying about THINKING BA?
The possibility about taking aircraft off the LAX run was never mentioned by me …only you BA.I think you should stick to paper shuffling in the office.
My point before Twiggs went south with it was that the Japanese market is supposedly important and we keep shafting it.Perhaps if the company was not playing games with our latest aircraft and giving them to other carriers we could use them in a far more efficient manner and not be forced to play catch up.
Even you BA might have read the articles on the weekend about QF putting pax on J* services when they have paid for a QF seat.They continually show a level of disdain for the customer that beggars belief.
The 300 is a relic and that is my point and as we need more aircraft we shouldn’t be giving them away to other carriers.This puts us in a position where we are forced to use aircraft that should be in Longreach.
A couple of points BA a classic has not got the same range as a 400.
The distance from SYD to NRT is less than SYD to LAX and therefore IF you think about it a 400 could not do a LAX return in the same time as it does a NRT return…What were you saying about THINKING BA?
The possibility about taking aircraft off the LAX run was never mentioned by me …only you BA.I think you should stick to paper shuffling in the office.
My point before Twiggs went south with it was that the Japanese market is supposedly important and we keep shafting it.Perhaps if the company was not playing games with our latest aircraft and giving them to other carriers we could use them in a far more efficient manner and not be forced to play catch up.
Even you BA might have read the articles on the weekend about QF putting pax on J* services when they have paid for a QF seat.They continually show a level of disdain for the customer that beggars belief.
The 300 is a relic and that is my point and as we need more aircraft we shouldn’t be giving them away to other carriers.This puts us in a position where we are forced to use aircraft that should be in Longreach.