QANTAS - Australia IV
 

It must be getting harder and harder for the spin doctors to keep a straight face ,"gloom ,doom times are tough, it is such a turbulent industry, we must contain costs (etc read screw staff harder )" when stories like this start appearing revealing the truth of the matter.

From SMH
January 15, 2007 - 12:05PM
The plummeting oil price has prompted an upgrade of Qantas' earnings forecast by analysts at Macquarie Bank.
The investment bank happens to be part of a private equity consortium trying to buy Australia's biggest airline, in an $11 billion deal.
On the back of a significant decline in the price of oil over the past month, Macquarie Research Equities has lifted its 2006/07 pre-tax profit forecast for Qantas by $140 million to $1.008 Billion

Qantas V
 

it looks like a Mr. MH is not so successfull in BA. majority cabin crew voted for strike:O

Yes, 80% return with 96% voting yes.
No ambiguity with how the crew feel.
Wouldn't it be wonderful to see that lying kylie squirm......:E

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There was mention on the other thread before it mysteriously disappeared about rumours we may be losing the SIN hotel.

Sad days if it ends up being true as for many years it has felt like home.

Let’s start over again….

I don’t think it would take a neurosurgeon to tell us that the company does not really want full time cabin crew anymore. The only way for the company to achieve that is to either give us all a redundancy package or just annoy us enough that we will want to leave anyway.

To achieve the last part they have…

1:Given traditional L/H flying to S/H

2:Set up overseas bases and employed crew on sub Australian conditions.

This creates resentment on board because different crew are being paid different wages although they are doing the same job.

3:Employed casual crew ( MAM ) allowed through the new IR laws.

4: Created AO in Cairns..Which did not really work cost wise as they had hoped so they then…….

5: Created J* and J* international and others such as Jetconnect.

PS. I am not going to argue the chronological creation of these other airlines.

We all know that for some reason people are falling over themselves to apply for MAM, J* and J* international.

This has created the situation where although L/H still have 744’s to work on there is no career progression and as our EBA expires this year puts us in a position where inevitably the company will want more than just a pound of flesh so to speak.

So what can we do about it and by that I mean L/H as S/H are looking after themselves and I cannot really see us joining together. You only had to read the previous Qantas thread to see the resentment to understand this.

The only way forward and to protect our jobs is to do as the wolfster suggested. Let’s give the company something that appeals to their greed and something that they cannot or will not want to forego.

I also believe that these ideas should be tied to a new EBA and the condition that our traditional flying returns to us .Let S/H do S/H flying as it says on the domestic terminal and let L/H do international flying as we used to.

Here are some ideas..

We let any new crew flying L/H be employed similarly as MAM’s or J* international crew are. This effectively creates a Band A and a Band B. This is nothing more than what is already happening with the AKL, BKK and LHR base except that they will be employed in Australia and based in Australia. This does not mean that the bases in those ports will close but that we are closing off the threat in some way to other cheap sources of crew.

If we don’t then we will lose more flying to S/H and J* international. This is not intended to be antagonistic to S/H but the facts are undeniable that we have lost traditional flying to S/H.

The company may very well be planning to have dedicated fleets such as 744 and the 380 and so on but if we offer a cost inducement to the company we might be able to get our flying back.

We can also look at other sources of revenue for the company that will not impact dramatically on us. For example changing the overtime calculation from 12 hours to 12.5 hours. After the tax is taken out there will be little difference in our net pay but to the company it would be a huge savings.

We could also suggest changes to the way we get our allowances in slip ports. We could use the debit card so that the company does not have to pay the hotel to count and insert allowances into envelopes. This may sound like a small idea but it may add up to $10.00 per crew at each hotel and each day of the week.

These are only a few ideas of mine and I understand the idea of giving in on some of our conditions will be hard to swallow but if we pick ones that will have little impact on our lives and as I said will appeal to the greed that pervades the office and their bonus mentality then we will be able to keep our jobs. This job is not only about the destinations and the money but our enjoyment in the job. If there is no more fun then it is a very short-term prospect.

There are some that post here that have no interest in crew so don’t let them drag this subject down so that tightslot bans the thread or that it degenerates into another bunfight. Lets come up with ideas to keep our jobs and get back our traditional flying.

A "B" scale works for me lowerlobe and is something that occured at other airlines decades ago.


A friend of mine had a conversation onboard some time ago with a rather senior [and left leaning] lawyer with QF about the situation and they suggested that the "B" scale was the way to go.......

flexibilty is the key
 

agree with B scale, but leave the allowances out. debit cards are a nightmare(just watch BA crews in sin check in and out. it takes for ever. some crew would have to come down 30 minutes earlier ,yeah, right). roster flexiblity for all categories who want to work more, leave a number of trips in open time for an instant trade or extra work. and definately no to 3 star hotels. have look what that means overseas. there are other options. some taxis may be traded etc:ok:

Boys and Girls I'm not rapt in the s/h faaa myself but let's leave the insults to another part of pprune.

i reckon we have to nut out something now and not when the evil empire tells us.

As Stubby said if you want to have a blue then set up another thread this ones for l/h getting back on track

Well done Lowerlobe!

I think the B scale pay idea is great.

Doesn't BA have something similar?

Long Haul Only...What The!!!
 

I may have missed something but where does it state that this thread is for long haul only... I thought it was Qantas Australia!!!!

Lowerlobe,

I reckon the idea of a B scale is a win for both sides.A you said boys and girls are tripping over themselves to apply for mam and Jetstar and I reckon if they are ok with that pay and conditions then they might as well fly long haul for the same bucks. qf would be dribbling all over the place at the thought of how much dough they would save.

wa man this is for qantas and we are talking about our next eba but if you want to have a mam or s/h thread you can always start one off.It just got crazy with all the bs that was on the previous thread that dissapeared.

A plea to those who post
 

I realise that almost everyone that posts in here is interested in genuine discussion and dialogue.

Discussing what we may be prepared to trade off etc in the current EBA i guess is always an interesting discussion for crew.

Please just bear in mind that management monitor and probably post here too and personally i am reluctant to discuss what might or might not be acceptable to me. or engage in a whats important or not important exercise.

Whilst i realise that its a very small number who actually post in here and the company coould not in fairness view that we would be representative of ALL crew they could form views from it.

I am not so naieve as to believe that crew or not directly having the same convo's with them direct, but my suggestion is that a extensive survey is undertaken of crew by the FAAA and i would be interested in hearing what other crew think of that and any other advice.

Please bear in mind that even if you want to remain confidential you can always emails or send suggestions to the FAAA anonymously. Of course they wouldnt be responded to but i am sure they would be considered and discussed in sue course

I agree with you WA.Man i didnt realise this was long haul only...................or is it only longhaul who think that what they say is what really matters.............we must remember we are all crew who do work for the same company and who would really like to have job security..............dont have a go at your fellow work mates cause they do not say where they want to fly to that is up to management

but
 

fellow workmates vote for substandard eba's and therefore make it easier for management to shift flying. :{

Pegasus,

Your post lacks it’s usual clarity and in fact I was wondering if you had just come back from a night out.

However in relation to the current topic I agree with you that some who post here are not crew and are in all probability company management or others who’s only intent is to confuse, cause trouble and deflect the course of the topic away from the issue.

I do not believe though that a discussion on pprune will jeopardize any negotiations you…sorry the FAAA will have with the company. We are not talking about any plans or concepts that the FAAA has and in any case anything that you mention at meetings is probably back in the office before the members have left the car park.

I think it is vital that we talk about our next EBA now and not in Nov or Dec and if we use pprune as a method of sharing information it will be of benefit to us. As you said the company does monitor this site and it can only help us if they know we are serious as it makes them react to us for a change instead of the other way around.

The idea of different Bands for example is something that other airlines have used very successfully and if adopted by QF will help both sides. If people looking for jobs are willing to work for MAM or J* conditions then let them join L/H and lets get our flying back. That in turn protects our jobs and is that not what we want after all.

On another subject Qantas is being hurt by all the publicity on it’s fuel surcharges but has not only dropped them by a pathetic 5 cents but only on selected routes as well.

On today’s news a major Australian shoe manufacturer has announced it will move it’s manufacturing to either India or Thailand. They said it was because of the cheaper labour costs in these other countries.

The catch was that when he was asked if the shoes would be cheaper then he said NO. So again we have a case where it is not the competitiveness of the product but the profit that counts and again AUSTRALIAN jobs are going to be lost.

It will be interesting to see if the Gov will do or say anything about this……. WHAT’S YOUR GUESS?

On yet another note the tech crew union believes that a 24 hour slip in JFK is not enough to achieve a decent rest.....

Quote "AIPA’s considered position is to have the layover lengthened to increase the probability for you to ascertain sound sustainable rest. AIPA’s intermediate position is also clear, in that we believe that a Second Officer should be added to these arduous Flight Patterns if the rest is kept at a minimum 24 hours in JFK, due again to reported concerns over incomplete sleep in the slip, tiredness and possible fatigue whilst at work."......

I wonder how rested they would feel if they were to transit JFK instead of a 24 hour slip.They don't know how lucky they have it and our union wanted us to give it away.

Extinction Rumours
 

Those who are suggesting that Longhaul is heading for the graveyard are both premature and uninformed.
In the fleet there are 30 744s 6 0f which are ERs.
These aircraft service 8 destinations and require approximately 6 crew complements(84) to sustain them.
Frequencies to some of these destinations are increasing(SFO for example).
Money is and has been spent improving the procedures and service on these aircraft and to these destinations.
These aircraft have a great deal of life left in them.
While these aircraft are in service there will AlWAYS be a need for LH CC.
Those that suggest otherwise are both scurrulous and contemptible.
QF management are the enemy....not each other.
Lets move on shall we?

lower,

I reckon your right on the money with different bands and it will give us an argument to use at the next negotiations.

Mate I also reckon we could look at transport to the city as something that we might be able to do without.I reckon it's things like that that the company would love to get their hands on and it will add up to big bucks for the company.To be francis but I reckon the company would sell their own mother if they would save a buck so they should go for these.

a little reminder
 

the 747 isn't over the hill yet. LH recently ordered 20 747-800.
Twiggs you can't help yourself, can you. keep stirring the pot.:rolleyes:
just look at the delivery schedule of the A380's and the expected retirement of 743 (at least 2010)and there is no scheduled retirement plans for the 744 yet. so things aren't too bad for QFLH. of course, there is always a possiblity of external influences, like OZ goes to war, nuclear attacks, GD gets a heart attack, SARS and or large corporations decide in their new domestic/ internatonal travel policies J* is the go, yah, right. By the time the 744's retire i will be well and truly travelling CP/EK /SQ in my retirement.;)

We all realise I'm sure that the idea that J* is getting the 744's is ridiculous so let's not let Twiggs distract us from any sensible topics.Her aim was probably to take our attention away from ideas to negotiate on our EBA and keep L/H in the game.

Let's keep our eye on the ball and let the company drop it not the other way around.

What does everyone think of the big and generous move by the company and Darth in particular in cutting the fuel surcharge by a whopping $5.00 on selected flights only of course.

Darth is also quoted as saying that he is taking a bit of a paycut with the takeover but has more to give away.....WTF.

By the way that the fuel company's are showing their reluctance to lower the price of fuel at the pump even with crude dropping by the day you would think that Darth is running them as well.

One of the stockbroking firms [the name of which escapes me] has upgrading its profit forecast for Qantas to a record profit, EBIT AUD 1 Billion.