QANTAS - Australia IV

[Bad Adventures]

I recently did a JFK shuttle and it was an easy day. Total duty was nearly 17 hours due to delays at JFK but certainly much easier then a SIN-LHR sector. I wish i could get more of them but they are just way too senior. The extra cash in my pay was very useful to pay some over due bills.

[stubby jumbo]

Things are looking up for a change............Little Johnny appears stressed.
Maintain the rage There is hope for us yet.

[lowerlobe]

A few weeks ago Sven Reedless from the PR company FAAAAAAAAA (Flight Attendants abdicating any action and ambivalently against all activity) was interviewed on what it was like as a F/A.

For those of you who were away or did not hear the radio interview here is the unedited transcript…

Interviewer: Good Afternoon listeners, today we have as our guest Sven Reedless a F/A and also an elected official of the FAAAAAAAAA
Sven: Ahhh actually I’m a CSM

Interviewer: What exactly is the difference
Sven: We get to read the telegraph while eating a muffin and we wear a different tie….no… but not the latte coloured one. ……Unfortunately.

InterviewerK then Sven, There have been a lot of reports of problems with your IFE system.
Sven: Ahhh Hang on for a sec are we on Air…

Interviewer: Yes, we have been for about a minute or so now
Sven: Sorry, I was confused with that “ON AIR” sign…I know we are not flying but …ahh anyway, I’ve got my glasses and script ready. Ahhh They can’t see my script can they?

Interviewer: No Sven, this is radio
SvenK then I’m ready for the questions we talked about earlier.

Interviewerpressing button on desk) Thank God for the time delay…where was I, ohh Yes about the problems with the IFE.
Svenh Yeah, well as usual those problems are a complete beat up by some sections of the media.Try one of my muffins…….mum gave me the recipe

Interviwer: Sven, Those reports though are from numerous passengers talking about multiple failures.
Sven: Well, that is a perfect example of media exaggeration there is usually only one failure.

Interviewer: Sven, we have had reports of it failing time and again.
Sven: No, sorry they only fail once although it may fail in a number of areas the seats only fail once.It may look like the seat has failed again but it is the same failure again so in real terms it is the same failure and we have just not fixed it the first time .We can do a number of very tricky things but they are only written up as failing once. Otherwise as you could imagine the paper work would be massive…..here try a muffin…..

Interviewer: What sort of tricky things can you do?
Sven: Ohh it’s very complicated .

Interviewer:How complicated is it?
Sven: We press a button…it’s really annoying when I’m trying to read the paper…….We can also give away free vouchers for a muffin …their very popular...even the gluten free ones

Interviewer: Does that work
Sven: Ahhhh what was the question?

Interviewer:Can you fix these problems with the IFE inflight?
Sven:Have I told you about the float that we are sponsoring in the next Mardi Gra……it’s shaped like a muffin

Interviewer: Getting back to the IFE problems is there a course you do as a CSM or is there any training to fix these IFE breakdowns.
Svenh Yes there is a very technical course that we do, it lasts for weeks and..

Interviewer: Have you done this course?
Sven: Absolutely, it is a very technical course and it is too technical for even our technical crew. As I said it goes for 2 weeks and they give you a name badge and morning tea and everything.

Interviewer: Did you successfully complete this course?
Sven: Absolutely, our Group General Manager for Invisibility Lusley gave me a certificate and shook my hand, mum was there too and I supplied the muffins and…

Interviewer: The reports tell us of many problems with your IFE and frankly the passengers are not happy.
Sven: This IFE system is state of the art even the manufacturer does not understand it fully and as you might expect there have been some teething problems.

Interviewer: But these teething problems have been going on now for over 18 months
Sven: Ahh Well there are a lot of teeth and have I told you about our Muffin Mornings.

Interviewer: Well, what are you doing about these teething problems?
Sven: We have a team of dedicated orthodontists working on the problem at this very moment.

Interviewer: What have they found?
Sven: Apparently I have an impacted bicuspid or something.Probably from eating too many Muffins,I really have to cut back.

Interviewer: No Sven not with you, I meant with the IFE system.
Sven Ohh sorry, well we think it is the wisdom teeth, there is not enough room and they have to come out.

Interviewer: Does that take long to fix:
Sven: Well, if we removed the wisdom teeth from every passenger that complained about the iFE we would never land.It’s very messy as well.

Interviewer:Sven,For a union rep you seem to be very pro company.
Sven:I’m glad you asked that question.

Interviewer:Ahhh Sven…Well…are you going to answer my question.
Sven:Ahh well The company employs us and we have decided that the best course of action is not to annoy them.That way they might forget about us with all that’s going on and we might slip through the net.The company has it very tough at the moment.The upper management has the huge task of spending their bonus’s and some other things so we sort of just try and hide in the corner.

Interviewer:Is there anything that you would addressed in talks with the company.
Sven:Well,personally I would like to see a muffin on every crew meal tray.

Interviewer:Is that it?
Sven:Yep that’s about it.

Interviewer: Ahh right well, Thanks Sven for giving us an insight into international flying.
Sven: Have you tried one of my Muffins, their great and low fat as well…...

Interviewer: Goodbye

[Pegasus747]

Anyone in here actually reading Lowerlobe's constant anti, Qantas anti FAAA diatribe might actually believe he was unbalanced.

Clearly that is not the case as he has an equally maginficent sized chip on each shoulder. One for qantas and one for the FAAA.

Lowerlobe is not a happy person and tries to convince the small audience on here that somehow he is representative of the wider crew community.

Let's just face facts.

Lowerlobe told us in unequivocal terms that the vote on the JFK dispensation would be defeated- result 71% voted for it. Not because they liked the idea of such an arduous tour of duty but because unlike lowerlobe (or should i say King Canute) by merely saying no to something does not stop the tide from coming in.

In relation to the IFE. It was the FAAA that commented in every major metropolitan newspaper about the IFE failures and the effect on crew. Lowerlobe hears one of many radio interviews and because its not full of the vile anti Qantas bile that fills his world its somehow some giant sellout.

The reality is that some good may well come of the public airing of this issue by the FAAA, which is certainly more than Lowerlobe has ever done on any issue.

The King canute (lowerlobe) solution to all problems is not to try and negotiate some middle ground but to go for broke on everything and have some win or a complete loss potentially at any cost. A phirric victory will not ensure the relevance of the Long Haul Division or an EBA8 as opposed to an AWA.

A vote for King Canute is clearly a vote for making yourself irrelevant.

You have to be AT the table to negotiate. And the last time the FAAA negotiated with Qantas King Canute wasnt there or at any FAAA meetings because more than likely his highness is not a member and hides behind anonymity whist pillorying those who put their names to everything as elected officials.

The real Braveheart

[OCCR]

Hate to tell you this Pegasus but Lowerlobe opinions are what the majority of crew are now thinking about the goons in the FAAA.
Whispers are around that a new group is being formed to challenge these total incompetents......I can't wait till the next election.....
We need a change in the FAAA bunker, Bolt and the wigged one must go! they don't fly anymore, they have lost touch with the membership and the company regards them as total fools and laughs at them.

[roamingwolf]

Pegasus give it a rest mate I thought the radio joke was a ripper.A bloke I had a beer with at the local took the last package said he heard the real interview and he asked if Steven had left the faaa and was working for the company.

A lot of us are thinking the same thing that lower has posted.If you reckon Dixon hates us because you stand up to him you are having yourself on mate.I reckon you guys should have a good look at yourself and think about what you should be doing.

I know I’m no scolar but what does phirric mean?I could’nt see it in the dictionary are you making words up again Pegasus.

Get with the program Pegasus because you are being looked at as the peter foster of the union movement

Mate at the rate your doing I bet your on Dixons Christmas card list.

[Explicitus]

Pyrrhic

Pyrrhic: named for Pyrrhus of Epirus who reportedly said something along the lines of, "If we are victorious in one more battle like this we are utterly ruined."
His victory was more damaging to him than the Romans, hence "pyrrhic victory" a victory that cost too much.

Sorry to poke my nose in, this remark implies no opinion on the matter either way.

[twiggs]

Hate to tell you this Pegasus but Lowerlobe opinions are what the majority of crew are now thinking about the goons in the FAAA.
Whispers are around that a new group is being formed to challenge these total incompetents......I can't wait till the next election.....
We need a change in the FAAA bunker, Bolt and the wigged one must go! they don't fly anymore, they have lost touch with the membership and the company regards them as total fools and laughs at them.

OCCR,
you can not claim that "the majority of crew" think any particular way.
If a new group is forming then great, I hope they have some innovative ideas that do offer a choice.
In the meantime though, I think we need to wait till the end of the year before we can begin to pass judgement on the current leadership.
The job they did with the last EBA was excellent, considering the situation they inherited, so we can look forward to the next round of negotiations with some hope.

[midsection]

The last 3 JFKs I have done have all been a walk in the park.
I can not understand what some of you are whinging about.
Or is it you have nothing to complain about so this week it is the JFKs.

Take some advice. If you dont like doing them bid for something else.

[Eden99]

Occr Remarks

OOCR wrote "Hate to tell you this Pegasus but Lowerlobe opinions are what the majority of crew are now thinking about the goons in the FAAA.
Whispers are around that a new group is being formed to challenge these total incompetents......I can't wait till the next election....."


Love to know which circles you mix in OCCR..... are they the same non-union circles as lowerlobe??

I talk with heaps of crew..... Mijatov and the L/H FAAA have huge support. Whether it is at recent FAAA elections or votes like for EBA7 (88%)OR the JFK Dispensation (71%) ALL actual evidence indicates strong support for the current FAAA leadership.


And of course why wouldn't it? The current officials reversed every failure of EBA6 as they promised, LH conditions are the best in Australia and are right up there with the best in the world.

The current officials don't lie.... they communicate well and they are talented.


I t will be interesting if "anothe group" stands at the FAAA elections next year. It will be interesting what platform they could possibly have, because they won't have experience, they wont have a clue about the new industriaL LAWS, and most importantly they will be facing the existing officials who have fulfilled ALL their promises.

Nevertheless, it could be fun watching the likes of lowerlobe or OCCR leading an opposing group. COMEDY AT ITS BEST

[cartexchange]

A new group for the FAAA, that would be too good to be true.....
they have my vote!

[capt.cynical]

bashers

A word of warning to all the FAAA bashers.
Be carefull of what you wish for.

[speedbirdhouse]

Indeed........

[mrpaxing]

some things to remember

the american flight attendants are not allowed to do return east-west coast or the other way for safety reasons, FAR 121...
there have been several reports by Pilots AND CSM about crew being asleep while waiting for a take off slot in JFK. if the OH committee has not seen any reports, its either the company hides them, the fAAA does not want to deal with them or otherwise. If they OH/FAAA really want to know they would run a survey on every flight for a month. simple

[gloriais18]

FAR121 is a very large document. Specifically how does FAR121 address F/A duty time limitations? Just interested.

Possibly, when all Cabin Crew flying on Australian registered aircraft are represented by one unified industrial body, the first consideration should be a licensing system for cabin crew.

[lowerlobe]

Gloriais18..The point is that under US law US cabin crew are not allowed to operate LAX/JFK/LAX but we do and the FAAA has gone along with it...not only that but the tech crew say that 24 hours in JFK is not enough to get adequate rest....Think about it...

As far as a reply to Twiggs/Pegasus and Eden is concerned her are just a few pertinent observations…

First Twiggs. Apparently it is not possible for OCCR or anyone to claim they speak for the majority of crew. This is unless you are Twiggs of course…. because on at least three occasions Twiggs has claimed SHE represents the majority of crew. So like management it is a case of “Do as I say not as I do”. This ranks with some of Twiggs other classics such as it’s the destinations that are important and it aint the money…Nothing more needs to said there!!!!

Secondly, I admit that I am not happy with QF management but then again with the level of disengagement at an all time high I don’t think there would be many employees who are happy with the situation. For the last 30 years or so I have watched the company on an almost weekly basis attack us and other groups of employees.

These continue to this day and unless you are completely delusional will not stop either regardless of who owns the company.

If there were no attacks there really would be no need for unions and imagine what an airline we would have if management and employees were not on a war footing.

However in a previous post Pegasus who is close to the FAAA officials defends the company…YET AGAIN by saying a crewmember is anti company……………WTF…Who’s side are you on?

Then he makes a significant slip by putting the FAAA and the company in bed together by saying that I am against the FAAA and the company…Pegasus do you know what a turncoat is?

Third, both Pegasus and Eden talk about a democratic vote. The JFK referendum was anything but democratic and only the North Korean regime would look at it as such. The vote was carried out by the FAAA with no safeguards whatsoever.

The vote should have been carried out by the Australian electoral commission. One of those representing the FAAA here claimed that it was illegal for the AEC to do this however it is far from illegal and in fact they do it for unions and other groups on a regular basis.

They also claimed that it would cost thousands of dollars but when I checked with the AEC I was told it would cost nowhere near that.

The AEC would have counted and initialed each and every vote and ensured no irregularities. The FAAA just printed them out with no safeguards such as this. How many vote cards did the FAAA print? No one knows because they were not numbered or initialed as the AEC does.

There is also the issue of how the vote was carried out. Normally with a referendum both sides of the argument are printed and given to people to read so as to be fair.

Normally there is a YES case and a NO case inserted with the ballot card so you can make up your own mind .Not with the FAAA though as they did not want any fairness in your thinking. They did not want anyone telling crew the reasons for voting NO to the shuttle as they had their own little chicken little scare campaign in full swing…

I am not suggesting that anyone in the FAAA office or the returning officer did anything illegal or wrong and I’m sure Pegasus/Eden/Guardian will protest that there is no way they would have been party to any wrong doing but the fact remains that if they were sincere in holding a DEMOCRATIC vote they would have asked the AEC to conduct it.

Finally, The FAAA tries to cloud the issue with abuse and nonsensical rhetoric to distract and confuse crew.

Eden tells us that if there were another group standing then they would have no idea…

The arrogance of eden is astounding. Does he honestly think that out of the thousands of crew they are the only 2 or 3 people who have any idea of what to do or would have any ability?

I sincerely hope there is another group standing for the next elections because we need someone to stand up and show support for CREW and not the company. As I said the current leadership of the stands for….

Flight Attendants abdicating any action and ambivalently against all activity

[Pegasus747]

It would be fair to say that emotions run high in the forum mainly because people are afraid for their futures.

If it were possible to have a rational debate on the subject of the policies of the FAAA without the resort to personal invective it would be a miracle because of the level of personal hatred and envy that exists in some here. But i will try one last time and then i will go and enjoy 3mths long service leave....


There has been considerable critisism of the encumbent FAAA officials. One would think that the job of a long haul flight attendant is at an all- time low, but no one can raise anything other than the JFK dispensation to lay at the feet of the FAAA.



Lets take things into proper perspective...

Overseas bases-

The partial demise of the Long Haul Division started with the introduction of the overseas based crew. If crew had stood up at that time and fought a pitched battle perhaps including some form of direct action we may not be so industrially weakened now. THE current leadership of the FAAA were not running the FAAA then


Long Service Leave Assignment-

One of the most vexing things about life at the moment is the assignment of LSL. This is regulated by state laws and not part of our EBA. The assignment of leave is out of the control of the FA

Reduced Flying -

As would be abundantly clear to all, we have jetstar, australian airlines and short haul. All of whom flying 20-30% more hours than Long Haul for less money. That is why our flying is going.

The current leadership of the FAAA inherited the worst EBA since they started in the early 90's and have been cleaning up the residue of that ever since.

The easiest way to make the long haul division more relevant is to become cost effective, and be at the bargaining table to reach agreements.

Those that feel that the FAAA now is giving things away need to list those things.

Its easy to be generraly unhappy, but let's put things into perspective. There has been no wholesale reduction in conditions.

Wage rates are the highest in the industry, our meal allowances are so much higher than those of others that they will give them our work to save the money.

The real challenge will be to address these things in EBA8.

If job security and maintanance of income is important then we will need to see what crew are prepared to do to keep it.

It's easy to talk tough in here. But other than negitiation and compromise the only effective tool of flight attendants is direct industrial action.

over 60% of flight attendants are women. Industrially non agressive by nature. Most flight attendants are so heavily geared financially that they wouldnt take more than a couple of days action even when it is legal.

If a new team wants to take over the management of the fAAA and responsibility for crew conditions and job security they will have to offer something other than rhetoric and critisism of others.

Despite the grumblings of crew. many of whom totally out of touch with the real world. We are among the highest paid workers in the country. when you take into consideration the fact that we can be replaced with and 18yo for 30% of the average income of long haul crew in a few weeks, i for one wouldnt be tempting Dixon or the new owners to Go for it!!

Anyone that has a real strategy rather than airing their frustration here should be making suggestions to the current officials now not waiting for another team when its too late.

The current officials will be surveying crew and holding meetings as always before the EBA negotiations start.

If it comes back that crew want a miracle then they need to elect a snake oil salesman because as far as i know the current officials will try hard but not promise miracles.

If we didnt have Jetstar, Australian Airlines, Short Haul, and Overseas crew who would willingly absorb all of our work for less money the job would be easy.

Lets face it, when we were riding on a high in the 80's and early 90's none of these were competing with us for our own work. The world for the Qantas Long HAul FLight attendant has changed. And as with all evolution, it will be survival of the fittest.

We either adapt and accept change or we perish.

If anyone out there is telling you that they can do a better job, then listen to what they say. But when you listen, also question them.

How would they deal with the current situation differently.

The pilots have several cases before Federal Court, some of which have already been dismissed. They have deep pockets and one thing that we DONT have.

A marketable skill.

As far as licensing is concerned. Be careful what you wish for. There are benefits to be sure in licenseing. But there are also potential drawbacks. And what is essential is that you need to dot the I's and cross the T's on that.

In relation to where we go from here, i would suggest that management read this more than flight attendants. They see the division and love it. The feed on our internal battles and weaknesses.


There is no doubt that they would like to get rid of 60% of the current crew at least. The challenge will be growing long haul not shrinking it, and whether crew are prepared to accept what needs to be done to achieve that or whether they want to go the way of the dodo

[samford]

FAAA and AKL Based F/A's

So, has the FAAA had much to do with FARSA in AKL? I ask this, because obviously any US flying lost by Australian based L/H would likely be picked up by AKL.
Now that AKL have a Collective Agreement and the union actually have some leverage within Jetconnect (which, lets not forget, is QF owned), perhaps it's time the two unions joined forces on various issues surrounding cabin crew in L/H.
The company have been very strategic in utilising the overseas bases to gain further leverage in making changes, an example would be giving JFK shuttles and (inturn) more LAX flying to AKL. If AKL was to get the same protection against this, then who would be left to fly these arduous patterns?
There seems to be alot of talk about getting a united front between FAAA S/H and L/H, but don't forget FARSA in NZ too. At the rate the AKL base is growing, it is scary to think that any progress made will be lost just as fast because if the flying is given to them instead, it has been all for nothing.

I know it has been said before, but the S/H and L/h FAAA NEED to sort some level of cooperation out prior to the commencement of bargaining. It is absolutely essential all unions beit FARSA, L/H, S/H and LHR start talking more.

I for one am not happy about the current situation in S/H. I do not bid for regional flying, but unfortunately most of it is filled with MAM casuals - who, incidently have an agreement with the S/H FAAA, go figure!

Regional flying defeats the purpose of me transferring divisions in the first place. The general feeling in S/H is not that we think L/H have it too good, most of us know we were screwed over and it frustrates me that everyone accepts it, because they feel there is nothing we can do.

Of course there is something we can do, and while I don't know the answers, I am pleading with all crew to PLEASE unite. We have a sorded past in recent years, but we must move forward from that and learn from it. It's time for change, and we need to rally our respective unions and get progress on these issues before it's gone too far.

[stubby jumbo]

Slam Dunk!

A well considered and thought provoking post-Pegasus.

Some salient points for all of us to consider.

I don't envy anyone having to deal /negotiate with the treachery, lies , deceit and bullying from the current ( Non ) -Management team.

Darth and his team must sit back and laugh with glee at where they have us positioned at the moment.

However, I'm a true believer in:

"EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY"

[Pegasus747]

Stubby jumbo,

Thanks for your comments. In Relation to the other unions like FARSA and the Thai Collective and the London Base i would say the following.

There is regular dialogue and meetings between the officials except for the thais.

An attempt was made my previous officials to organise the thai base and the FAAA paid about 24K pa to a thai based flight attendant to help organise them.

It would appear that the person in question didnt have her contract renewed and was isolated. The strategy of the FAAA under previous management was to help them raise their conditions so as to be less of a threat to long Haul.

The thais and the kiwi's are not stupid. They know that the only reason that they have the jobs that they do is because of the significant cost savings thaat qantas derives from using them.

In New Zealand FARSA is not interested in helping Australian Based long Haul crew to the detriment of their own members. They are actively negotiated to ensure career path and promotion for them and better conditions, but are mindful of not pushing too hard and becoming less attractive.

They negotiated CSM and CSS positions for NZ based crew in the last agreement as they believe that their members are entitled to promostion too.

That would impact significantly on LH crew promotion and could potentially mean that AKL/LAX/NYC/SFO flying could be all Kiwi based crew (many australian) with onboard managers too.

The next EBA for Long Haul crew will be potentially the most complex ever undertaken by officials. There are now 3 employment lawyers on the staff of the FAAA as well as A senior barrister who works closely with them. The officials that will work with the paid staff will be some of the most experienced in the history of the FAAA.

Some have suggested getting a professional negotiator. can i just say that Geoff would tell Bob HAwke to get F***ed as quickly as MM.

As far as i am concerned, everything that we currently earn, and every benefit is important. OH&S will play a strong part in this EBA and any changes to work rules etc will have significant OH&S implications.

If we could guarantee that no other F/A in the group would come in and undercut us to get our flying and ensure their job security it would be a great thing. Sadly that is unlikely to be the case as we live in a world of dog eat dog and looking after no1.

There is a lot of work going on with the unions working together to defeat the current government and change the IR laws. That will at least bring some fairness back to the system.

But we cant count on a Labor win at the federal election and have to be prepared for what may head our way.

The Unions in the USA that have been successful are the ones that have a relationship with management. They are the ones at the table rather than knocking on the door.

the best example of that is the old AFAA and AICCA. The AFAA was considered the soft option by many crew, but at the end of the day they were the union that the company chose to deal with and we lost 75% home base leave and got a bid system of sorts.

The days of those sorts of conditions are long gone and the thing of legend like when the water came up to the hotel bar in Bahrain.

We live in a very different world now and the conditions of the 70's are foreign to every non government airline in the world.

The private airlines like us without the govt support and public service mentality in management and employees are a cut throat place to work and bargain in