QANTAS - Australia IV
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Boys and Girls
If you look at the visitors wandering around qcc you will understand that the company does not know what it is going to do tomorro morning let alone in 2 years time so how would crew or anyone else?
between now and when or if we get the 380 anything could happen so who cares.There have always been crew who know what is going to happen so dont listen too much it only gives you a headache.i reckon If something does then well find out about it then.in the meantime chill out and have fun.
If you look at the visitors wandering around qcc you will understand that the company does not know what it is going to do tomorro morning let alone in 2 years time so how would crew or anyone else?
between now and when or if we get the 380 anything could happen so who cares.There have always been crew who know what is going to happen so dont listen too much it only gives you a headache.i reckon If something does then well find out about it then.in the meantime chill out and have fun.
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Future of Melbourne LH Base?
Hey Twiggs!
Thanks for your response. Logic would say that a base is needed in MEL to maintain 747 and future A380 flying. However, the 3 points I raised earlier show a certain antipathy to the base's future by the company.
The actual services departing MEL are still operating, it's just that from next bid period, over 70% of them will NOT be crewed by MEL base. So what will MEL based crew be doing next BP?
Thanks for your response. Logic would say that a base is needed in MEL to maintain 747 and future A380 flying. However, the 3 points I raised earlier show a certain antipathy to the base's future by the company.
The actual services departing MEL are still operating, it's just that from next bid period, over 70% of them will NOT be crewed by MEL base. So what will MEL based crew be doing next BP?
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Future of Melbourne LH Base?
Twiggs, are you serious? Evening up of numbers! A 70% reduction in flying for CFA's alone goes a whole lot more than evening up.
No LH manager appointed for MEL base, a massive reduction in flying, and a significant number of MEL base crew offered tempoary transfers to SYD... something smells rotten to me!
Is the writing on the wall for MEL LH Base?
No LH manager appointed for MEL base, a massive reduction in flying, and a significant number of MEL base crew offered tempoary transfers to SYD... something smells rotten to me!
Is the writing on the wall for MEL LH Base?
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And5678
Mate,I wouldn't worry about some of the things that are said here.You gotta remember that some that post here are quite happy to push the company wheelbarrow.Mate I don't know if they are crew or not and that means I'd take her words with a grain of salt.
The bottom line is the clause that the suits in the company inserted into the contract if you went to another base.That said that if the company closed the base for any reason they did not have to give you your same job in the same spot.Mate you could go to Darwin as a porter or ground staff.
Thats what i reckon stinks.The transfer is supposed to be good for both of you but when the manure hits the turbine they will drop you like a hot rock.
Mate,I wouldn't worry about some of the things that are said here.You gotta remember that some that post here are quite happy to push the company wheelbarrow.Mate I don't know if they are crew or not and that means I'd take her words with a grain of salt.
The bottom line is the clause that the suits in the company inserted into the contract if you went to another base.That said that if the company closed the base for any reason they did not have to give you your same job in the same spot.Mate you could go to Darwin as a porter or ground staff.
Thats what i reckon stinks.The transfer is supposed to be good for both of you but when the manure hits the turbine they will drop you like a hot rock.
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I passed this site web address onto a hand full of my non aviation friends and asked them to have a read and tell me what you think. All of them made the comment that some on here wouldnt know if they had a great job with excellent conditions if it smacked them in the a#%e.
We have 1 of the better jobs around, pays well for what we do so if you dont like it get a 9 - 5 job.
I cant believe some of you on here. Sorry, yes I can as I put up with you winging lot for hours at a time on board.
Bring on some new faces please.
We have 1 of the better jobs around, pays well for what we do so if you dont like it get a 9 - 5 job.
I cant believe some of you on here. Sorry, yes I can as I put up with you winging lot for hours at a time on board.
Bring on some new faces please.
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Future of Melbourne LH Base?
Roamingwolf, you make reference to a clause in our contract that gives the company the ability to transfer us to any position in any location. Is that assumption based on your own legal analysis or on an actual precedence that has been set in the past?
Twiggs, if RW was a CCM, I'd call my health insurer on seeing them approach to make sure I'm paid up, then throw myself under an approaching crew bus!
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but can anyone explain the 70% reduction in flying out of MEL LH Base?
Twiggs, if RW was a CCM, I'd call my health insurer on seeing them approach to make sure I'm paid up, then throw myself under an approaching crew bus!
I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but can anyone explain the 70% reduction in flying out of MEL LH Base?
Last edited by And5678; 22nd Feb 2007 at 08:24.
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The Main Game
WE read yesterday that ,QANTAS SENIOR exec's will receive a $91 million payout, including $8 million for Darth, on their last day of employment with the "old"/legacy ( don't you just love that term) airline if the takeover goes ahead.
The payout occurs before any Qantas exec managers do one day of work for the new owners.
The payments for Qantas senior managers are in stark contrast to the ACTU concerns about the future of Qantas workers, who are not eligible for such handsome kick backs as Qantas leaves public ownership.
"Workers haven't kept pace with the consumer price index," says the
Australian Services Union's assistant national secretary, Linda White.
OK, well get ready for this bomb shell that was dropped in our laps at the SIN crew forums this week:
"There will be no more wage increases attached to the L/H EBA UNTIL there is parity/equality of pay with the O/S Bases."-Tarantula.
So in other words it will be a "vanilla EBA" with no 3% ( or whatever) over 3 years.
How long will it take to "catch up" with the Thai Base????????????
This means with a CPI running at 1.5-2% , we'll be effectively taking a PAY CUT of 1.5-2% per annum until we "catch up"!!!
WHAT THA !!!!!!!
Was any one else up there ?
what did you hear?
The payout occurs before any Qantas exec managers do one day of work for the new owners.
The payments for Qantas senior managers are in stark contrast to the ACTU concerns about the future of Qantas workers, who are not eligible for such handsome kick backs as Qantas leaves public ownership.
"Workers haven't kept pace with the consumer price index," says the
Australian Services Union's assistant national secretary, Linda White.
OK, well get ready for this bomb shell that was dropped in our laps at the SIN crew forums this week:
"There will be no more wage increases attached to the L/H EBA UNTIL there is parity/equality of pay with the O/S Bases."-Tarantula.
So in other words it will be a "vanilla EBA" with no 3% ( or whatever) over 3 years.
How long will it take to "catch up" with the Thai Base????????????
This means with a CPI running at 1.5-2% , we'll be effectively taking a PAY CUT of 1.5-2% per annum until we "catch up"!!!
WHAT THA !!!!!!!
Was any one else up there ?
what did you hear?
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And5678,
Mate ,when the perth base closed one of the crew there was given 3 options.
1 take VR
2 If he wanted to stay L/H he had to go to Mel even though he was Syd based before the move to Perth.All his and his wifes family were in Syd but they would not give him that option .
3 Transfer to S/H and stay in Perth which is kinda funny now that s/h do a lot of the flying we used to do.
As far as my job goes,have a look at some of my posts and tell me if you reckon I would be a visitor.mate apart from that I have a problem with the BS in there and it's so deep you need a snorkel to breath .
It's funny but I did not mention Twiggs name but she had a shot at me...which is typical and if you look at her posts you will understand why a few here are doubtfull about her being crew.
Mate as far as the 70 % goes who knows except those in the office and even then I don't reckon they have a clue.it might be some foul up caused by carmen but since you can't do anything about it then chill out.
Hey midsection so you told your non avaition mates about this site and they reckon we don't know how good we have it.
How then mate if they don't fly then how do they know what our job is like and how good it is? If they think their jobs suck then maybe they should have a career change.If they reckon they can judge something without ever doing them and having no idea of what goes on at all and they reckon they can tell others what to do then I suggest they try a job with QF management.
I was thinking mate since you are akl crew are you one of the original strikebreakers who moved across the pond because they couldn't get a job in OZ.The reason I reckon this is because you must have a short term memory problem because you said this in the thread about bringing Ansett back
"Count me in any day. Better than the s#@t we put up with at the moment"
You also had a shot at our IFE which we all did but then told us that jfk shuttles were a walk in the park.
...WTF ..mate make up your mind or are you taking out the quinella pal
Mate ,when the perth base closed one of the crew there was given 3 options.
1 take VR
2 If he wanted to stay L/H he had to go to Mel even though he was Syd based before the move to Perth.All his and his wifes family were in Syd but they would not give him that option .
3 Transfer to S/H and stay in Perth which is kinda funny now that s/h do a lot of the flying we used to do.
As far as my job goes,have a look at some of my posts and tell me if you reckon I would be a visitor.mate apart from that I have a problem with the BS in there and it's so deep you need a snorkel to breath .
It's funny but I did not mention Twiggs name but she had a shot at me...which is typical and if you look at her posts you will understand why a few here are doubtfull about her being crew.
Mate as far as the 70 % goes who knows except those in the office and even then I don't reckon they have a clue.it might be some foul up caused by carmen but since you can't do anything about it then chill out.
Hey midsection so you told your non avaition mates about this site and they reckon we don't know how good we have it.
How then mate if they don't fly then how do they know what our job is like and how good it is? If they think their jobs suck then maybe they should have a career change.If they reckon they can judge something without ever doing them and having no idea of what goes on at all and they reckon they can tell others what to do then I suggest they try a job with QF management.
I was thinking mate since you are akl crew are you one of the original strikebreakers who moved across the pond because they couldn't get a job in OZ.The reason I reckon this is because you must have a short term memory problem because you said this in the thread about bringing Ansett back
"Count me in any day. Better than the s#@t we put up with at the moment"
You also had a shot at our IFE which we all did but then told us that jfk shuttles were a walk in the park.
...WTF ..mate make up your mind or are you taking out the quinella pal
Last edited by roamingwolf; 22nd Feb 2007 at 19:04. Reason: second thoughts
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Hey Stubby
Did anyone tell the tarantula that unlike OS bases we live in OZ and the cost of living is a lot $#%^$@* higher than bkk.Maybe the managers who think of this should live in syd on Thai pay.
mate the other problem we have is the union has told everyone that we are paid more than anyone else .That makes it a cert that the company will give us nothing and and to take away a lot.
Did anyone tell the tarantula that unlike OS bases we live in OZ and the cost of living is a lot $#%^$@* higher than bkk.Maybe the managers who think of this should live in syd on Thai pay.
mate the other problem we have is the union has told everyone that we are paid more than anyone else .That makes it a cert that the company will give us nothing and and to take away a lot.
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Bad Faaa Releases National Secret
I agree roamingwolf, how dare the FAAA!!! tell long haul cabin crew and the Company what LH crew are paid!!!
I think it's an outrage, because Qantas (the employer who pays LH crew) did not know what it was paying its LH crew, until the nasty FAAA let the cat out of the bag!!!
Until the FAAA had the gall to have a mature debate with it's members about the reasons why the Company was VR' ing the LH Division out of existence, senior Qantas management were in the dark about the conditions and pay that they were extending to their LH crew.
roamingwolf you are so analytical and cluey that i think you should run the FAAA and then you can keep from the Company what it pays all of us!!!!
YAY FOR roamingwolf.
I think it's an outrage, because Qantas (the employer who pays LH crew) did not know what it was paying its LH crew, until the nasty FAAA let the cat out of the bag!!!
Until the FAAA had the gall to have a mature debate with it's members about the reasons why the Company was VR' ing the LH Division out of existence, senior Qantas management were in the dark about the conditions and pay that they were extending to their LH crew.
roamingwolf you are so analytical and cluey that i think you should run the FAAA and then you can keep from the Company what it pays all of us!!!!
YAY FOR roamingwolf.
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Eden
Mate you really have no idea of what i was saying do you .I hope that everyone is wrong and you are not on the union because you are over your head.
I did not say that the company does not know what we are paid I said you are admitting that YOU think we are overpaid for the work we do.
If you play cards do you show the others what cards you have?
Go on genius tell the company that we are overpaid.Let the opposition know what you are thinking before you go into negotiations and i reckon we all know what will happen genius
Mate you really have no idea of what i was saying do you .I hope that everyone is wrong and you are not on the union because you are over your head.
I did not say that the company does not know what we are paid I said you are admitting that YOU think we are overpaid for the work we do.
If you play cards do you show the others what cards you have?
Go on genius tell the company that we are overpaid.Let the opposition know what you are thinking before you go into negotiations and i reckon we all know what will happen genius
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RW, i dont think that the FAAA has ever even marginally indicated that LH crew are "overpaid".
But they have clearly indicated in what was needed as a reality check for some crew that we are the least productive and most expensive.
Just as a mercedes is more expensive than a holden. The difference is, that in our case, the company view is that a jetstar flight attendant or an overseas based flight attendant or a MAM casual does exactly the same job for a lot less.
We like to view ourselves as the mercedes benz of cabin crew. Many of us are and deserve what we earn. Trouble is the company just has choices now that they didnt have a number of years ago.
The FAAA have just been putting a perspective on our situation. Nobody likes our predicament but it wont be solved by living in denial of reality.
Cleary the cost differential is a significant motivating factor for Qantas. Its the only reason that the IT jobs were sent to India and the maintenance is being done offshore.
Unlike the IT workers and engineers cabin crew do not in any reality have a portable skill no matter how well WE regard ourselves and that is the incredible challenge for flight attendants and their representatives.
With a hostile govt an IR laws, a largely industrially weak membership (certainly F/a's could not be described as militant) our challenge in the next EBA is to avoid oblivion and to remain relevant and EMPLOYED.
For some the changes will be bearable for others not bearable. With people lining up to do our work cheaper and without legislative protection that unions have traditionally enjoyed in australia, flight attendants as well as all other unskilled workers face serious challenges.
ANd please before anyone gets offended when i refer to flight attendants as unskilled i do so in the spirit that we can be replaced by a week of EP training and some cabin service training.
Its all about profit, and what qantas can con the public into believing is a quality product.
What i find totally offensive is the obscene bonuses paid to management and offered by the equity partners. The current management are not deserving of those obscene amounts. Its not them that built our company is thousand of didicated staff over decades.
When we have a govt that not only endorses this sort of behaviour but encourages it its time for a change.
For my money RUDD like obi wan kenobi is our only hope.
But they have clearly indicated in what was needed as a reality check for some crew that we are the least productive and most expensive.
Just as a mercedes is more expensive than a holden. The difference is, that in our case, the company view is that a jetstar flight attendant or an overseas based flight attendant or a MAM casual does exactly the same job for a lot less.
We like to view ourselves as the mercedes benz of cabin crew. Many of us are and deserve what we earn. Trouble is the company just has choices now that they didnt have a number of years ago.
The FAAA have just been putting a perspective on our situation. Nobody likes our predicament but it wont be solved by living in denial of reality.
Cleary the cost differential is a significant motivating factor for Qantas. Its the only reason that the IT jobs were sent to India and the maintenance is being done offshore.
Unlike the IT workers and engineers cabin crew do not in any reality have a portable skill no matter how well WE regard ourselves and that is the incredible challenge for flight attendants and their representatives.
With a hostile govt an IR laws, a largely industrially weak membership (certainly F/a's could not be described as militant) our challenge in the next EBA is to avoid oblivion and to remain relevant and EMPLOYED.
For some the changes will be bearable for others not bearable. With people lining up to do our work cheaper and without legislative protection that unions have traditionally enjoyed in australia, flight attendants as well as all other unskilled workers face serious challenges.
ANd please before anyone gets offended when i refer to flight attendants as unskilled i do so in the spirit that we can be replaced by a week of EP training and some cabin service training.
Its all about profit, and what qantas can con the public into believing is a quality product.
What i find totally offensive is the obscene bonuses paid to management and offered by the equity partners. The current management are not deserving of those obscene amounts. Its not them that built our company is thousand of didicated staff over decades.
When we have a govt that not only endorses this sort of behaviour but encourages it its time for a change.
For my money RUDD like obi wan kenobi is our only hope.
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Feedback
Hey Pegasus,
You are the ONLY one from the FAAA bunker that makes any sense when you post.
Guardian 1.......too emotive,arrogant and not rational, Eden 99=sarcasm and arrogance.......this never works.
So you're way out infront.
There are times when I do not agree with the FAAA "muffin led assault", but hey...... you are giving me hope that there is an alternative ,articulate and objective view for our future.
Well Done
You are the ONLY one from the FAAA bunker that makes any sense when you post.
Guardian 1.......too emotive,arrogant and not rational, Eden 99=sarcasm and arrogance.......this never works.
So you're way out infront.
There are times when I do not agree with the FAAA "muffin led assault", but hey...... you are giving me hope that there is an alternative ,articulate and objective view for our future.
Well Done
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Feedback for Pegasus
Hey mate...
I couldn't agree more with your post and Stubby's assessment of it. It address' our situation with reality and common sense. Most crew, in my opinion, would agree too.
My only concern with your post is the tendancy for people to view a Rudd/ALP win as a panacea to our industrial issues. They will face a hostile senate most probably still controlled by conservative forces. Forces that will be in one foul mood and in no way willing to negotiate.
I couldn't agree more with your post and Stubby's assessment of it. It address' our situation with reality and common sense. Most crew, in my opinion, would agree too.
My only concern with your post is the tendancy for people to view a Rudd/ALP win as a panacea to our industrial issues. They will face a hostile senate most probably still controlled by conservative forces. Forces that will be in one foul mood and in no way willing to negotiate.
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Pegasus
Mate I reckon most here believe that the three amigos are the faaa officials.I don’t give a stuff really but here is a post by guardian about l/h pay.
“Qantas Long Haul crew are :
1)paid on average 20% more on their hourly rates , just to start with
2) Qantas LH crew are paid for 182.3 per 8 weeks.... SH are paid their lower rates of pay on the basis of 246 hours per 8 weeks
3) SH allowances in terms of overseas and domestic meal allowances are massively lower than L/H
4) SH EMPLOY HUNDREDS OF MAM CASUALS, AGAIN MASSIVELY CHEAPER THAN LONG HAUL CREW.”
This might be the case or it might not but to publish this on a public forum for all to see lets the cat out the bag don’t you reckon
Mate I reckon most here believe that the three amigos are the faaa officials.I don’t give a stuff really but here is a post by guardian about l/h pay.
“Qantas Long Haul crew are :
1)paid on average 20% more on their hourly rates , just to start with
2) Qantas LH crew are paid for 182.3 per 8 weeks.... SH are paid their lower rates of pay on the basis of 246 hours per 8 weeks
3) SH allowances in terms of overseas and domestic meal allowances are massively lower than L/H
4) SH EMPLOY HUNDREDS OF MAM CASUALS, AGAIN MASSIVELY CHEAPER THAN LONG HAUL CREW.”
This might be the case or it might not but to publish this on a public forum for all to see lets the cat out the bag don’t you reckon
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I wonder if I may make a few comments re Mr Wolf's post (actually an answer to Mr Guardian if he is quoted correctly).
A check of LH vs SH CSM basic salary shows that a LH CSM earns 3.95% more than the SH equivalent. (I have 2 pay slips in front of me right now)
Historically tech crew salaries were determined on a weight /speed formula ie. bigger faster more remuneration, or a weight/payload formula, either way it's called productivity. Applying that principle less than a 4% difference in basic salary between flying a B737 vs a B747 would suggest that LH CC are somewhat under paid.
As for points 2-4 might I suggest, not quite factually correct.
To quote an IR Manager "LH aren't more expensive they are just less flexible"
And in reply to comments made else where DTA IS TAXABLE. for those who wish to disagree, look at the SH payslip, and visit the ATO web site.....
Happy to further discuss these issues but will not respond to who hates whom more, nor the anti Union chant.
A check of LH vs SH CSM basic salary shows that a LH CSM earns 3.95% more than the SH equivalent. (I have 2 pay slips in front of me right now)
Historically tech crew salaries were determined on a weight /speed formula ie. bigger faster more remuneration, or a weight/payload formula, either way it's called productivity. Applying that principle less than a 4% difference in basic salary between flying a B737 vs a B747 would suggest that LH CC are somewhat under paid.
As for points 2-4 might I suggest, not quite factually correct.
To quote an IR Manager "LH aren't more expensive they are just less flexible"
And in reply to comments made else where DTA IS TAXABLE. for those who wish to disagree, look at the SH payslip, and visit the ATO web site.....
Happy to further discuss these issues but will not respond to who hates whom more, nor the anti Union chant.