JetStar Cabin Crew EBA
Join Date: Dec 2005
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FOr the JQ crews in SEQ and MEL,,, JEtstar has already announced Back of the clock flying for you guys
BNE - DRW - BNE 21.05 Leaves DRW at 01.05
MEL - DRW - MEL 21.04 Leaves DRW at 02.10
EBA has not even been voted on and they have already expected that we would roll over like dogs and pander to their needs......
NO EXTRA MONEY
NO EXTRA BENEFITS
HOT food,, Drunks,,,,, No incentive
Seems that the irish kids expected us to VOTE YES......
Please vote NO... Get more money ,,,,,,,, No point whinging in the Galley at 5.04am on a Sunday cause it will be too late........
BNE - DRW - BNE 21.05 Leaves DRW at 01.05
MEL - DRW - MEL 21.04 Leaves DRW at 02.10
EBA has not even been voted on and they have already expected that we would roll over like dogs and pander to their needs......
NO EXTRA MONEY
NO EXTRA BENEFITS
HOT food,, Drunks,,,,, No incentive
Seems that the irish kids expected us to VOTE YES......
Please vote NO... Get more money ,,,,,,,, No point whinging in the Galley at 5.04am on a Sunday cause it will be too late........
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Yeah it seems Jetstar Management are just like Jetstar Customers - ALWAYS WANTING SOMETHING FOR NOTHING!
No need for the whole "Strike, Strike, Strike" thing at this stage, I reckon. A NO vote may just shock them into renegotiating something a bit more humane - Howard's big w@nk, "WorkChoices" aside, of course.
Good luck Guys. Just stay strong and don't let their lack of integrity damage yours!
No need for the whole "Strike, Strike, Strike" thing at this stage, I reckon. A NO vote may just shock them into renegotiating something a bit more humane - Howard's big w@nk, "WorkChoices" aside, of course.
Good luck Guys. Just stay strong and don't let their lack of integrity damage yours!
Join Date: May 2004
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DJ crew do BNE-DRW-BNE or MEL-DRW-MEL sometimes, however with the BNE pattern you usually passenger in one direction, plus we get an overnight allowance if we land back in home base after 2am from a red eye flight flight. I am not sure if the MEL pattern includes passengering or not... either way its painful I tell ya!!
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Yes, it's true about bonding the new recruits with $5000 for their training school if they get sacked, etc. inside 6 months. Nice, eh?
Unforunately guys, we are surrounded by crew who won't strike.
There will be those crew who will SAY they will, but when it comes to the crunch, will be too scared/lazy/whatever to actually do it.
Might be a different story for most of us senior crew in SYD, MEL, and SEQ, but as for the rest of the network...take at look at T2's conversation with a newie the other day for proof positive of what we're up against.
Sad times.
Unforunately guys, we are surrounded by crew who won't strike.
There will be those crew who will SAY they will, but when it comes to the crunch, will be too scared/lazy/whatever to actually do it.
Might be a different story for most of us senior crew in SYD, MEL, and SEQ, but as for the rest of the network...take at look at T2's conversation with a newie the other day for proof positive of what we're up against.
Sad times.
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As ex Cabin crew who has been involved with 2 EBA's I think that the Jetstar offer is way too inadequate for the concessions ( read substantial company cost savings) that they have asked cabin crew to make.
I would vote no and force the company to the negotiating table. Striking would be suicidal at this stage.
My 2 bobs worth
I would vote no and force the company to the negotiating table. Striking would be suicidal at this stage.
My 2 bobs worth
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I only hope that all JQ crew read the proposal thoroughly and think about how it presents in your day to day living. Really think about how this will affect your life, your health and your job. Please don't vote it in without considering the whole package and it's effect on yourself and everybody you work with.
Here are my concerns and yes I will be asking questions at the roadshow to have the correct info given so that I can make an informed choice.
1. BOC flying duties can also be allocated on live days so it won't just be 4 a roster. There is a gaping hole there waiting for the company to jump in to.
2. I receive no more money doing BOC than I do for flying the same hours between 9 and 5. Why would I want that? Seriously, I'd like to see management drag their butts out of bed at 2am for the same money and give the same expected productivity and output.
3. No crew rest unless over 11 hours and then only if pax loads allow. So I can do 10-45 hours BOC with no where to go but my crew jumpseat.
4. Can someone confirm if I can sign off and then sign on within the 24 hour period at home base. I ask this as I want to know if I will be working lates in to earlies then to lates backward and forward within the rest periods. This causes major fatigue, we are lucky now that we stay relatively on one or the other for a week or so, then days off. If it's let through we will be at the mercy of rostering and our home life will go down the drain. And don't forget no band payments for your BOC.
5. If you don't get called in for a duty on an avaialble day you don't recoup the 1:4 DHC. You also don't get paid the 1:4 DHC for a live day. So effectively I am still standing by for the company at no extra cost to them, and no extra incentive for me.
6. The 3% pay increase absolutely falls short of compensating the type and amount of work the company are asking for. It is the standard pay rise that every QF group department has received, but we will be giving a lot more and receiving a lot less benefits for it.
I just think we all deserve a fair pay for our work. From the proposal I can see that there is opportunity to work harder for more time off. But I really don't think working BOC for no extra pay and longer duty days without adequate rest is a good deal.
I also don't believe saying no has to mean strike action. I'd like to believe the company love their dollars more than that and would spend a bit more thought on coming up with an alternative. Having said that if they were too shortsighted to do that I'm more than happy to be involved in legal strike action.
And finally we are good people, we work hard, we make the company a lot of money, and we should be fairly compensated for our work. That's all I ask.
Iguanahead votes NO!
Here are my concerns and yes I will be asking questions at the roadshow to have the correct info given so that I can make an informed choice.
1. BOC flying duties can also be allocated on live days so it won't just be 4 a roster. There is a gaping hole there waiting for the company to jump in to.
2. I receive no more money doing BOC than I do for flying the same hours between 9 and 5. Why would I want that? Seriously, I'd like to see management drag their butts out of bed at 2am for the same money and give the same expected productivity and output.
3. No crew rest unless over 11 hours and then only if pax loads allow. So I can do 10-45 hours BOC with no where to go but my crew jumpseat.
4. Can someone confirm if I can sign off and then sign on within the 24 hour period at home base. I ask this as I want to know if I will be working lates in to earlies then to lates backward and forward within the rest periods. This causes major fatigue, we are lucky now that we stay relatively on one or the other for a week or so, then days off. If it's let through we will be at the mercy of rostering and our home life will go down the drain. And don't forget no band payments for your BOC.
5. If you don't get called in for a duty on an avaialble day you don't recoup the 1:4 DHC. You also don't get paid the 1:4 DHC for a live day. So effectively I am still standing by for the company at no extra cost to them, and no extra incentive for me.
6. The 3% pay increase absolutely falls short of compensating the type and amount of work the company are asking for. It is the standard pay rise that every QF group department has received, but we will be giving a lot more and receiving a lot less benefits for it.
I just think we all deserve a fair pay for our work. From the proposal I can see that there is opportunity to work harder for more time off. But I really don't think working BOC for no extra pay and longer duty days without adequate rest is a good deal.
I also don't believe saying no has to mean strike action. I'd like to believe the company love their dollars more than that and would spend a bit more thought on coming up with an alternative. Having said that if they were too shortsighted to do that I'm more than happy to be involved in legal strike action.
And finally we are good people, we work hard, we make the company a lot of money, and we should be fairly compensated for our work. That's all I ask.
Iguanahead votes NO!
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Vote NO!
Love ya work Iguana.
Just think for a moment guys. 11-12 hour days means we'll be reaching our monthly limit quicker, which in turn means more live days. BOC, no more than 4 rostered a month. All well and good in theory, but with at least six live days rostered as well, there's the possibility of 10 BOC duties!
Now just think about that for a minute, and how much you'll be enjoying your crew rest on your jumpseat, next to the toilet, on a duty of just under 11 hrs
And they say sick leave is a problem now. We'll be dropping like flies
EBA stands for enterprise bargaining agreement, which in my dictionary translates to a bit of "give and take" from both sides. Well I dont see the company giving us anything in return for the massive concessions this EBA gives them. A NO vote does not necessarily mean strike action. It sends a clear message that we are not happy and want it renegotiated.
Send the company and the union back to the table, isn't that what we pay the union to do anyway? Vote NO!
Just think for a moment guys. 11-12 hour days means we'll be reaching our monthly limit quicker, which in turn means more live days. BOC, no more than 4 rostered a month. All well and good in theory, but with at least six live days rostered as well, there's the possibility of 10 BOC duties!
Now just think about that for a minute, and how much you'll be enjoying your crew rest on your jumpseat, next to the toilet, on a duty of just under 11 hrs And they say sick leave is a problem now. We'll be dropping like flies
EBA stands for enterprise bargaining agreement, which in my dictionary translates to a bit of "give and take" from both sides. Well I dont see the company giving us anything in return for the massive concessions this EBA gives them. A NO vote does not necessarily mean strike action. It sends a clear message that we are not happy and want it renegotiated.
Send the company and the union back to the table, isn't that what we pay the union to do anyway? Vote NO!
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"$5000 Bond"
In regards to this, I was told by a JQ CM that the company is asking CM's to report all crew who are under the 6 month mark if they put one foot out of line so they can be sacked. Pretty mean spirited of the company I think, if anyone should be sacked for bad behaviour its the crew who have been here a while and should know better already, not some poor person straight out of ground school who doesnt know all the rules (this comes from a girl sleeping whilst paxing)
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This last week on line the consensus in SEQ is a definate no vote.
Whats the response from the roadshows in mel and syd . If we vote no we all need to stick together as one united team as mr seatback has highlighted. Make the FAAA team go back in for better conditions
Whats the response from the roadshows in mel and syd . If we vote no we all need to stick together as one united team as mr seatback has highlighted. Make the FAAA team go back in for better conditions
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Now...please feel free to correct me on this one.
If the vote is "NO" then does JQ have to negotiate an individual workplace agreement with each of us?
If thats the case do we remain on our current contract until then?
If the vote is "NO" then does JQ have to negotiate an individual workplace agreement with each of us?
If thats the case do we remain on our current contract until then?
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Unite
Our future, our lives, lifestyle, health - our future. The 'FAAA/Management "Vote Yes" Sales Pitch Roadshow' gave a clear message of instilling fear. They both agreed the EBA was not a good EBA but better than a Workchoice one - Bluff. For one minute, do you believe if JQ could save 1c, they wouldn't head straight for it??
Any suggestions of how we can become more united? to communicate/meet as a professional group without FAAA or Management influence, and discuss our future. A vote for our future is not a light decision to make.
Any suggestions of how we can become more united? to communicate/meet as a professional group without FAAA or Management influence, and discuss our future. A vote for our future is not a light decision to make.
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Probably because they know that if push comes to shove that the crew won't take industrial action?
Remember that question in the EBA surveys all those months ago? "Would you be prepared to take protected industrial action in support of your claims?"
Me thinks that the response was in the negative.
Re: JQ saving one more cent...resources wise, it is simpler for them now in the middle of this expansion to agree to an EBA than to negotiate individual contracts. That is, of course, now...a few months down the track after workchoices has settled in, who knows??
Remember that question in the EBA surveys all those months ago? "Would you be prepared to take protected industrial action in support of your claims?"
Me thinks that the response was in the negative.
Re: JQ saving one more cent...resources wise, it is simpler for them now in the middle of this expansion to agree to an EBA than to negotiate individual contracts. That is, of course, now...a few months down the track after workchoices has settled in, who knows??
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hey Mr Seatback........why don't we test the waters!! I'm sick of this we should be scared crap. In my mind we are already being fu#$%ed over by JQ management(I am loathe to use the term manage!! as they don't know how to manage, only how to harass, intimidate and dictate)!!
This EBA is a damn insult!!!!!! Bet they(the dictators) sit round the boardroom table(drinking french champagne paid for on the little irish mans company credit card) laughing their heads off!!!
But guess what...................SEQ says.....farQ!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its No No No, Ho Ho Ho, lets sit back and watch the show!!
This EBA is a damn insult!!!!!! Bet they(the dictators) sit round the boardroom table(drinking french champagne paid for on the little irish mans company credit card) laughing their heads off!!!
But guess what...................SEQ says.....farQ!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its No No No, Ho Ho Ho, lets sit back and watch the show!!
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jqfella, SYD has their road show on the 7th so maybe we'll have more of an idea then as to how everyone's voting.
So far everyone I speak to is a definite NO, but having been through a few EBA's I can tell you what people say they are going to do, and what they really do are two different things.
I think the company have been very lucky (clever) at using the threat of "workchoices" as a bargaining tool for themselves. I'd like to think they are the ones testing the waters and seeing what they can get for free from us before they really have to pay up. I don't believe if we say NO they will not at least try to renegotiate, it doesn't make good business sense to be so bloody minded.
But then again this is aviation and we are QF group. Dixon's legacy lives on.
Iguanahead still votes NO, and is more than happy to fight the fight.
So far everyone I speak to is a definite NO, but having been through a few EBA's I can tell you what people say they are going to do, and what they really do are two different things.
I think the company have been very lucky (clever) at using the threat of "workchoices" as a bargaining tool for themselves. I'd like to think they are the ones testing the waters and seeing what they can get for free from us before they really have to pay up. I don't believe if we say NO they will not at least try to renegotiate, it doesn't make good business sense to be so bloody minded.
But then again this is aviation and we are QF group. Dixon's legacy lives on.
Iguanahead still votes NO, and is more than happy to fight the fight.
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Come on guys. It surprises me(or does it???) that more crew haven't commented here! This proposed crap effects us all yet all you spineless crew seem to mouth off at work all the time but won't put your thoughts out for all to see!! Lets just hope that those crew that have said they are voting NO actually are true to their word.Let me assure you.......when we are working yet ANOTHER BOC, most likely delayed due to to more inadequate training, if anyone dares moan to me I will be asking them what they voted!! Be very interesting to see how many people "supposedly" voted NO!!!!!
Hmmmmmmm
Might have another guiness
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Workchoices information number is 1800 025 239. I will be calling today and get the heads up on what our options really are.... The fact that individual contracts will cost the company ****loads of money...and time to draw up, shows that they need us to vote yes. OK Darwin and Perth will go ahead, seats are being sold, the eba as it stands (including overnights) will stay until another is negotiated-as the pilots did. I don't believe there is any need to strike - work to rule - 30 min or 25 min turnarounds could not be achieved without us doing extra duties/dropping others.
We cannot compare us to DJ - for a start they get overnights,( fewer driving home after long hours), BOC allowances (Tim and the Base Manager assured us that BOC will be easy as all the pax sleep - don't insult our intelligence), cleaning allowances (JQ's Ad Hoc cleans are being interrogated), no casuals etc etc... our conditions need to factor that in. Casuals for a start will influence anyones' chance of going part time, or possibly to being fit to get the extra $ working Live days. We need our sales commission written into the EBA (another way of earning some extra$ - DJ has only ever recieved one payment as they calculate it nationwide if they make a profit) and base protection. Danielle Morgan was sad when we mentioned this and she told us about SEQ's car crash pictures on their notice board thru their dual base fatigue..... couldn't answer why CM's were exluded again for Line training postions. And let's be transparent / black and white with procedures about a crew member signing on for Airport standby, asked to go home and pack for an overnight, bring their passport, fly to Christchurch, overnight and pax home - lovely, but
1. technically did they sign on twice?
2. Was there anyone else first to go on home standby?
3. Has the FAAA approved accommodation in NZ ?
4. Service training?
5. Out of pocket money allowance in another currency???
I would not like to hinder any FA wanting to fly international, but, hey, no grey areas - that's why we have policy and procedure, rules and regs - we are a professional company - remember.........
FAAA .....why??? I heard most of the Reps will stand down after the EBA ...why...after voting NO????
Sure, we need unity and clear information. Freedom of speech is important. Don't tell me if I discuss the EBA on line I will will be up for harrassment - but if I encourage crew to vote 'Yes' , I will not be up for harrassment - hello...
We cannot compare us to DJ - for a start they get overnights,( fewer driving home after long hours), BOC allowances (Tim and the Base Manager assured us that BOC will be easy as all the pax sleep - don't insult our intelligence), cleaning allowances (JQ's Ad Hoc cleans are being interrogated), no casuals etc etc... our conditions need to factor that in. Casuals for a start will influence anyones' chance of going part time, or possibly to being fit to get the extra $ working Live days. We need our sales commission written into the EBA (another way of earning some extra$ - DJ has only ever recieved one payment as they calculate it nationwide if they make a profit) and base protection. Danielle Morgan was sad when we mentioned this and she told us about SEQ's car crash pictures on their notice board thru their dual base fatigue..... couldn't answer why CM's were exluded again for Line training postions. And let's be transparent / black and white with procedures about a crew member signing on for Airport standby, asked to go home and pack for an overnight, bring their passport, fly to Christchurch, overnight and pax home - lovely, but
1. technically did they sign on twice?
2. Was there anyone else first to go on home standby?
3. Has the FAAA approved accommodation in NZ ?
4. Service training?
5. Out of pocket money allowance in another currency???
I would not like to hinder any FA wanting to fly international, but, hey, no grey areas - that's why we have policy and procedure, rules and regs - we are a professional company - remember.........
FAAA .....why??? I heard most of the Reps will stand down after the EBA ...why...after voting NO????
Sure, we need unity and clear information. Freedom of speech is important. Don't tell me if I discuss the EBA on line I will will be up for harrassment - but if I encourage crew to vote 'Yes' , I will not be up for harrassment - hello...
Last edited by OnTimeArrival; 5th Mar 2006 at 22:00.
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As I said in my original post last week.... Jetstar Management think we are Low Cost Employees.....
Jetstar are happy for pax to sit amongst vomit and crushed pringles and their response is, "If they don't complain then we don't have to fix it"
Like they give a flying crap about us.
It is now time for Jetstar Crew to stand up and take notice...
I have had a car accident when I was driving to work for the 6th day in a row at 5am.... My lovely caring and very concerned Base Manager said " Well fatigue is a word that is thrown around very easily by Cabin Crew" , You need to ensure you are rested" Fine,,,, Bring on the sick days..... Those little meetings that we have are a joke, a way of instilling fear.. If you have a certifictate then JQ can't do anything
Imagine what how tired we will be after doing 4 BOC duties (2 on a live day) in a 6 day period..... It can be done.... And they will do it.....But they will give us nothing for it...... NO...ZIP ZILCH NOTHING
I feel that Jetstar as an organisation think little for our intellect and input..... They are against us... I have never before worked for a dis-organisation like Jetstar.....
I really pray and hope that this EBA gets a swift kick up the NO butt...
Please JETSTAR CABIN CREW - Don't be scared by Mr Nuttall and the Base Managers into voting yes..... This is our lively hoods, our Mortgages and our Childrens education.... Not to mention a drink after work....
We can do SO MUCH BETTER than what is being offered.....
GIVE A LITTLE - BOC DUTIES
TAKE A LITTLE - Allowances, More Pay (Compensation if you will) and better conditions...
We are Flight Attendants - NOT a piece of crap on the bottom of Jetstar Managements Shoes
Jetstar are happy for pax to sit amongst vomit and crushed pringles and their response is, "If they don't complain then we don't have to fix it"
Like they give a flying crap about us.
It is now time for Jetstar Crew to stand up and take notice...
I have had a car accident when I was driving to work for the 6th day in a row at 5am.... My lovely caring and very concerned Base Manager said " Well fatigue is a word that is thrown around very easily by Cabin Crew" , You need to ensure you are rested" Fine,,,, Bring on the sick days..... Those little meetings that we have are a joke, a way of instilling fear.. If you have a certifictate then JQ can't do anything
Imagine what how tired we will be after doing 4 BOC duties (2 on a live day) in a 6 day period..... It can be done.... And they will do it.....But they will give us nothing for it...... NO...ZIP ZILCH NOTHING
I feel that Jetstar as an organisation think little for our intellect and input..... They are against us... I have never before worked for a dis-organisation like Jetstar.....
I really pray and hope that this EBA gets a swift kick up the NO butt...
Please JETSTAR CABIN CREW - Don't be scared by Mr Nuttall and the Base Managers into voting yes..... This is our lively hoods, our Mortgages and our Childrens education.... Not to mention a drink after work....
We can do SO MUCH BETTER than what is being offered.....
GIVE A LITTLE - BOC DUTIES
TAKE A LITTLE - Allowances, More Pay (Compensation if you will) and better conditions...
We are Flight Attendants - NOT a piece of crap on the bottom of Jetstar Managements Shoes
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"Don't tell me if I discuss the EBA on line I will will be up for harrassment - but if I encourage crew to vote 'Yes' , I will not be up for harrassment - hello..."
I'm all for adult, civil discussion. It's very easy for a subject as passionate as this to overtake common sense and decency when dealing with each other.
We all have the right - both in this forum and at work - to discuss our differences of opinion without disrespecting others.
Our beef is with JQ - not with each other. Stay focussed people.