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JetStar Cabin Crew EBA

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JetStar Cabin Crew EBA

Old 27th Feb 2006, 09:10
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Seatback.....aoplogies if I sound like a cranky old woman ( no offence to cranky old women by the way!)......
I'm just a little nervous.
And maybe a little tired.
Getting up out of bed before 4am 6 days in a row will do it to you....I'm sure you can relate and know where I'm coming from.
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Old 27th Feb 2006, 10:06
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Red face ARE YOUR SURE?

Originally Posted by Mr Seatback 2
There isn't an agreed flight time formula used anywhere within the Qantas Group - and certainly none agreed with a union. Long Haul, in the past, have had bun fights over 'creative' schedules by pattern planning for not taking into account headwinds, etc. on some routes.
You'd better spend more time learning about the industry in which you work rather than spending time with Pruuu and Truuuu

Get your information right before claiming knowledge. Pattern planning has nothing to do with the creation and production of schedules -- they create work patterns or pairings based on the schedules produced by others.
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Old 27th Feb 2006, 12:30
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T2 - no need to apologise. I know how those 4am wake ups affect us all.

The best thing to do, if you've got any questions (and hey, maybe even get something off your chest) is to attend the roadshow. All your questions can get answered there. Lord knows I don't have all the answers, and who knows what's gone on behind the scenes.

B A Lert...

If I'm wrong B A Lert, then I'll be the first to say so. Perhaps poor choice of words on my part when making that post. Yes, I am aware pattern planning are concerned with building the patterns based on schedules. Obviously could have been worded better.

" You'd better spend more time learning about the industry in which you work rather than spending time with Pruuu and Truuuu"
Rather aggressive B A Lert, aren't you? Take a chill pill doll. My shout. Cheers!
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Old 27th Feb 2006, 23:11
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We all know that Jetstar and the QF group as a whole are trying to beat us into submission... They want to drain every last bit of blood from us and hope that we roll over and become little yes men ....FINE....Their choice like the governments "Work Choices"

We all will just become even crankier than we already are
Service will suffer
More "OSCARS" about a freakin cookie
More sick leave
More cups of tea with the boss
More negativity
More stress for CM's to deal with
More turn over in staff which means less experience


Its a simple process.... You pay peanuts, You get Monkeys

Has anyone ever been on a Virgin Blue flight ?
Have you see how happy they are ?
Why is that I ask myself?

They don't get paid $1100 per fornight thats for darn sure.

I have NO problems working 14 hours??? SHOW ME THE MONEY

And for the comment on being "Unskilled" and only needing a RSA and Senior First Aid .... WRONG ANSWER

I have customer service skills, interpersonal skills and an altruistic passion for my job....
About half of the crew in Sydney alone have University Degress and I know one guy with a Masters Degree......???

STOP TRYING TO SCREW US......

STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE
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Old 28th Feb 2006, 00:38
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jetstarFA

Understand your frustration, and agree with you on many points.

A couple of things...

"We all will just become even crankier than we already are
Service will suffer
More "OSCARS" about a freakin cookie
More sick leave
More cups of tea with the boss
More negativity
More stress for CM's to deal with
More turn over in staff which means less experience"
From the company's perspective...they don't care. Simple.
With the exception of turnover, is this not the same thing we're hearing about at Short Haul and Long Haul?

"I have customer service skills, interpersonal skills and an altruistic passion for my job....
About half of the crew in Sydney alone have University Degress and I know one guy with a Masters Degree......???"
With the exception of the Degrees (as they are not a job requirement), customer service skills, etc. don't mean much to the company. They employ people with the most basic of customer service skills. Turnover is good, as far as they're concerned.

Re: Striking...

Good luck with that one mate. Whilst Sydney and SEQ crew might, they don't make up the majority of crew across the entire network. CNS, HBA, NTL, MDB, and ADL won't strike, and MEL (given their very ambitious group of young folk) sure won't either.

For every one of us that would strike, there are at least two that won't. Sad, but true.

I don't like our situation either. But if the crew ACROSS THE NETWORK don't act as a unified group, we're doomed from the outset.
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Old 28th Feb 2006, 22:40
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Thumbs down This EBA is Pus!

Although I left The Star in January I am outraged and insulted that 5 and a half years at the company amounted in this inferior offer. We worked bloody hard for these people over the years and it is recognised like this. Pathetic!

I have read and re-read the document and it angers me that the company feel you deserve this. Jetstar cabin crew are worth a whole lot more and should vote accordingly.

There are so many areas in the EBA where cabin crew will be ripped off that there is TOO MANY to mention! Management must really hate Jetstar cabin crew to propose such things. Vile! Vile! Vile!

As I said I no longer work there but the total insult I feel is real.

VOTE NO! The [email protected] on offer is inhumane at best.

Mr Seatback is correct - management don't care. SHOW THEM YOU DO! VOTE NO!
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Old 28th Feb 2006, 22:53
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So true Ditzyboy... SO Very Very true ....... In 3 Years time when you sign on at 10.55 pm and do a triple CNS back of the clock on NYE's eve and get no extra money, no allowance, you willl wonder "Why did I vote yes"....
FOOLS people if you vote yes..... JETSTAR ARE BASTARDS...... Been here 3.5 years myself,,,,, What a Joke
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 01:12
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I've got no problems if people vote No. None whatsoever.

What I DO have a problem with is these same people who say:
"But why do we need to take industrial action?"
"I don't want to go on strike - we should be able to negotiate a better deal"

THAT TIME HAS BEEN AND GONE - and this is what has been developed. Remember - this company is operated by two former Ryanair bosses. WHAT WARNING BELLS SHOULD THIS TELL YOU regarding their CONTEMPT for unions, crew, etc??!

GET THE PICTURE PEOPLE! We have to act as UNIFIED group, across the network, to say to the company we're not happy with the proposal (if that's how you feel). That is ALL CREW in ALL BASES - not just those who've been around for a few years like myself and feel we deserve better. Recognition of length of service MEANS NOTHING. Zip. Zero. You want to stay? Stay. Don't like it? Go. THAT'S THE COMPANY'S ATTITUDE.

Ironically, the same people who want to vote No (not all of them, mind you) will probably be the first to put their hands up to work during any industrial dispute for day off drafting bonus, acting CM pay, and so on. Opportunists are all around us.

Btw, BE VERY CAREFUL with regard to how passionate we get about this topic whilst at work. Bailing up crew for their views on the EBA - to the point of aggression (and I've seen it happen!) could be viewed as harrassment by some. DO NOT leave yourselves open to this likelihood. Have a view, and if you disagree, leave it at that.
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 08:08
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I think that "passionate" is yet to come.....

Chatted with one of the new employees the other day. Interestingly they were trained in another city even though they were to be based in SYD. They had to foot the bill for all this until someone admitted fault and housed them in the appropriate accommodation. They were told from the outset that they had to pay for their entire accommodation during training. How has this only come to light in recent days? Also Cabin Managers were recruited directly from the same group after initial F/A training. We have heard nothing about this and I dont understand why management could not be more transparent about it.

Anyway....the same new recruit mentioned that they were too scared to claim any expenses paid to house themselves during the initial training period even though it amounted to $1000. But then again they thought that the EBA was reasonable because Austudy was such a difference to the money they will make now and in any case "flying for 12 hours during the night sounded like fun"!

....oh to be 19 years old again!
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 08:30
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T2...here's some more info...

"Chatted with one of the new employees the other day. Interestingly they were trained in another city even though they were to be based in SYD. They had to foot the bill for all this until someone admitted fault and housed them in the appropriate accommodation. They were told from the outset that they had to pay for their entire accommodation during training. How has this only come to light in recent days?"
NO ONE admitted fault! Our chief rep found out about this dirty little scam and jumped up and down till she was blue in the face. From the outset, the response from the company was "So what? What are you going to do about it?"

After much ranting from the FAAA, the company FINALLY agreed to live with their terms of the EBA. God love 'em. Just when you thought you heard it all...

The company did put something out in the FSO's about cabin manager upgrades recently. Remember reading about it. Nothing new there. Impulse and QantasLink regularly recruited direct entry Pursers (now CM's) even during my tenure. As for the criteria used, I only know that they'd flown for 12 months + elsewhere before.

"Anyway....the same new recruit mentioned that they were too scared to claim any expenses paid to house themselves during the initial training period even though it amounted to $1000. But then again they thought that the EBA was reasonable because Austudy was such a difference to the money they will make now and in any case "flying for 12 hours during the night sounded like fun"!"
AND THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT T2! With attitudes like this among HUNDREDS of our crew across the network, we are in some big trouble if we start talking No vote. Industrial action is no good unless everyone does it. There simply aren't enough senior crew around the network who know better to educate these younger crew members.

Sigh...to be 19 again!
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 10:02
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Okay.
But why does there need to be any type of industrial action applied here?

A "NO" vote is to simply endorse the fact that the work force find the terms and conditions to be unacceptable and request that both parties being JQ Management and FAAA representatives canvas suggestions to get a "YES" from the brothers and sisters.

Back to the drawing board for both.

Just like the pilots did. They didn't need to take a defensive stance from what they've mentioned. I'd rather we do the same but I'd also like to think that our management actually foster a deeper love for their employees.

...am I farting against thunder do I have to ask myself?
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 10:10
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Can you clarify any other "dirty little scams"?

There are enquiring minds that would like to be educated during these sensitive EBA days.

Word can get around quite nicely.

Television...telephone....tell a flight attendant.
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 10:28
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"Back to the drawing board for both."
Aaah - but will JQ want to go back to the drawing board at all? Especially post Work Choices? Yes, we're bound by an Agreement...but what are WE (that is, all crew - after all, we ARE THE UNION!) going to do as a GROUP to facilitate this? True, it may NOT come to industrial action, but we do have to think about all the possible scenarios. Just like EP's (!)

"Just like the pilots did. They didn't need to take a defensive stance from what they've mentioned."
From an industrial and pilot standpoint, our pilots aren't exactly envied for their deal by other pilots in areas throughout the QF Group, if you get my drift. They didn't take a defensive stance for a number of reasons. Take a look at D&G for a sample of how well their deal is regarded.

"but I'd also like to think that our management actually foster a deeper love for their employees.

...am I farting against thunder do I have to ask myself?"
Farting against thunder! LOL! Honey - we're farting against a tornado!

"Can you clarify any other "dirty little scams"?"
That's one of the bigger ones I know about. The worst ones, are of course, those where the crew do little side deals with Crewing and management. If I had a dollar for everytime a crew member whinged about wanting to reduce their rest below 10 hours so they could do a swap to attend a party, etc. I wouldn't need to work.

There are of course, those who have done many little deals and THEN have the temerity to whine about how the company wants to take advantage of their 'deal' across the rest of us. Trust me - I've heard the telephone conversations to crewing.

We can sometimes be our own worst enemy.
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 10:56
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Work Choices

Overtime,,,,,,,,,
Penalties for working non core business hours.....

I think I have staggered across a good thing

Pay me $18 an hour and I actually get time and a half on weekends and for working non-core business hours.........???

I like that

I say NO.........?

The kids in Adelaide were screwed by management and if it wasn't for crew with a couple of years experience with dealing with QANTAS GROUP then the new recruits in adelaide would have forked out over $5000 to be part of the GLORIOUS JETSTAR ........... JokeSTAR as I now name thee

Mr Seatback..... Put some concealer on the end of your nose as the brown is really starting to show???? Meant to be on our side
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 11:08
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"Overtime,,,,,,,,,
Penalties for working non core business hours.....

I think I have staggered across a good thing

Pay me $18 an hour and I actually get time and a half on weekends and for working non-core business hours.........???"
We already get paid overtime. And our shift penalties are annualised into our salaries, like Virgin Blue. Our hourly payment is well above $18 as you well know.

"The kids in Adelaide were screwed by management and if it wasn't for crew with a couple of years experience with dealing with QANTAS GROUP then the new recruits in adelaide would have forked out over $5000 to be part of the GLORIOUS JETSTAR ........... JokeSTAR as I now name thee

Mr Seatback..... Put some concealer on the end of your nose as the brown is really starting to show???? Meant to be on our side"
As for your last comment, play the ball - not the player.

For the record, I was the second person who found out about this sham and reported it to the FAAA within seconds. I was in constant contact with our chief union rep - and those higher up - so that I could at least assist, in some small way, to assure these guys weren't taken advantage of.

Refrain from personal attacks. It demeans us all.
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 11:17
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Well At least we agree that the the whole thing is a great big pile of ...

It stands to reason that Jetstar Management one JG and the trusty side kick CA and co are willing to screw over the new recruits.. They are most certainly willing to screw over the rest of us who have been here since Qantaslink days......

If the management of Jetstar are viewing this website I certainly hope you realise what a joke of an organisation you are running....

One phone call to CASA and our friends at ATSB can get a little low cost airline into a lot of trouble .......

Shall we talk about JQLlemon.........???? They endanger our lives then want to screw us on pay ?????????? I'd hate to say to much.......
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Old 1st Mar 2006, 22:16
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JetstarFA -
You are a legend! Hopefully others share your views. Just don't get yourself in any trouble over this. It ain't worth it. JetFcuk ain't worth it. Drop me a PM if you wanna discuss anything. You have my whole hearted support.

How some people in the mess that is Jetstar sleep at night - I do not know

And no need to get testy with Mr Seatback. Believe me when I say he is on your side. His just a bit more subtle about it than most of us. Or not as 'full on', should we say?

New JQ EBA - Dry it out and fertilise the lawn with it!
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Old 2nd Mar 2006, 09:45
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Just a reminder - moderators are watching this thread - Sadly, it appears to be headed the way of many Australian related threads nowadays i.e. personal abuse, profanity, aggression and an absolute inability to accept that anybody else has a valid point of view.

Please try and behave like adults, or expect to deal with the consequences.
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Old 2nd Mar 2006, 12:46
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Thumbs down EBA! You've got to be kidding.

Have not read a bigger bunch of garbage in all my life, and believe me, I've seen a fair bit of it!

Now I can understand a 12hr duty with a limit of 2 sectors. But to increase our current daily hours from 9.5hr to 11hr for 4 sectors. I don't think so JQ!

This outragious clause is enough for me to vote it down, and from the majority of crew I've spoken to, they feel the same way. Guys and gals of JQ, this is our last chance to get this right. If this is not sorted out we might as well sign away our first born to the company as well, because they sure as hell are not satisfied with the pound of flesh I've already given them. Send a clear message to our management and vote NO.

Don't let DeathStar win!
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Old 2nd Mar 2006, 13:55
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Thats the stuff OLD BOILER,,,,,,
NO NO NO NO NO ,,,,,,,, Followed by STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE......

JQ seems to think that they are the cocky new kid on the block..... Well the kid is about to get a great big smack up the BUTT.....

Apologies to the moderator if you think there is a bit of abuse... BUT this is literally our bread and butter we are talking about... If the EBA gets a YES it will just be BREAD and no butter .... Won't be able to afford it ....and too tired to eat it after SYD - PER - DRW - BNE - pax SYD,,, Back of the clock

There is a lot of passion and anger amongst the JQ kids... We get the death stares from QF and the rest but we hate what is happening just as much as the next person............

JQ MANAGEMENT - Staff morale and loyalty goes a long long long way ... trust me

JQ UNITE
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