MAM Conditions

[overhere]

Hi all,

Can any QF MAM crew advise what the average earnings would be (I know it's hard being casual, but a monthly or yearly average would do) and any other relevant info?

Thanks

[andie74]

Re: MAM Conditions

i have to say it really varies from mth to mth, according to how many days availability you give Qantas and then wot kind of work is available on those days. For example, most mths i give them 5 days a week, one mth i can average around 60-80 hrs, but another mth get around 80-110 hrs. for me its usually around 85-90. we are paid approx $26.24 per hr, plus $4.63 Duty travel allowance (some of which is not taxed if earned as part of a multi day trip- so if you get a few trips you can make a few hundred $$$ that arent taxed)

i work every weekend plus 3 week days. and i know there are MAM casuals who regularly get up around 120 or more hrs- but i honestly dont know how! i think it may be that they dont elect ANY days off when they put in theyre avail days for the mth- therefore allowing Qantas to work with essentially a 'clean slate' so maybe more likely to be allocated a full roster. whereas the rest of us get whats left over plus sick leave????? Dont know for sure but its a theory ive heard. i dont do that bcos its meant to be a casual job so i can at least have flexibiilty to do some things with my week that are planned. so thats my choice.

with 5 days p/wk you would think my hrs should be great...... but all it takes is for us to get 2 or 3 SYD returns in a week and already you've worked 3 days and only approx 13 -15 actual paid hrs work. then there are mths that are exceptionally bad, June was one of them (good time to plan a holiday!) and Dec wasnt good either, i got about 65 hrs, i caught up with friends for christmas (other MAM that i trained with) and in general we all had low hrs. Last Jan was really good for hrs so fingers crossed this mth will be a good one too!

hope this answers ur questions- if you wanted to know anything else specifically feel free to ask!

andie

[amongthestars]

Re: MAM Conditions

last month was a bit quiet out of sydney. I took a week off but still managed to do 100hrs, so the hours are there if you want them. I generally put in that I am available everyday and then towards the end of the month you can ring up and make yourself non-av if you don't want to do any more hrs. Fortnightly pays vary from 1400 to 2500. It really depends on how many hrs you do, meal penalties, overnights etc.

[overhere]

Thanks for the replies!

A question - I know 32+ from MAM have gone into perm positions with mainline in PER. Do those opportunities come up now and then, or was it a one off?

[SkySista]

Hey all,

I am also wondering about MAM, as I have been invited to interview with them soon.

WRT availability, how long in advance do you put in your available days? What's the latest you can change to non-av before trips? Swapping? Holidays - e.g. can you take them when you want to.... and staff travel? Do you get any? Same as mainline or reduced benefit?

Also I guess training is same as for mainline, do you get paid during training, and how much demand is there for PER-based positions at the moment? What kind of flying do the Perth casuals do?

Thanks heaps!!

PS - any tips for interview much appreciated - re: format etc (I know some of it's been done before but it's so hard to find anything QF/MAM that isn't negative....!

[Soulsista65]

MAM Assessment Session Tips

Hello ,

There is movement in the sky's and MAM are recruiting again.


Have just finished reading the forums from past interviewees and like
Skysista would love to get any tips from the "initiated" of what to expect from the MAM Assessment sessions.

xSs65

[sebby]

Perth flying for MAM is possibly the best for o/nights and hours etc, the new EBA may introduce career progression into mainline aswell as some guarenteed hours per your availability.

It will become better than the current offer and definitely worth considering if you want to fly for Qantas.

I imagine the process will involve a one on one/ panel and then group activities thereafter followed by another round of one on one/ panel (it tends to be panels these days as they use one as a scribe etc) and also language proficiency checks and then to medicals ref checks and so on.

I have also been told that Qantas will have more to do with this next recruitment drive and less MAM as they havent had great feedback from the Crew that were last picked by the MAM recruiters. It will be interesting that is for sure, but as with all airline interviews expect the unexpected and you will go further! I have got every flying job I have gone for on that basis and find myself doing extremely well on the day as a result, rather than having notes in my head and struggling to remember a plan which hasnt been adhered to by the recruiters whatsoever. As a Flight Attendant you need to think quick, and this should be apparent at your assessments. Good luck everyone!!!

[mamslave]

good luck

well good luck to those who want to join

been here nearly 4 years.

For your info, all new employees will have to go on a 20 day contract!

Deal is:

• You can only nominate 3 days off per month
• Qf give you 20 days of duties
• You have no say what so ever!

For those voting on the new EBA, vote NO NO NO

Dont let these people threaten us with new contract....we have seen what happened to us on contract A..

Dont belive the hype about ever going full time!

Perth flying is great, lots of international trips, sydney is different, lots of melb or brissie early returns.....unless of course you are in the club of people who seem to get singapore trips all the time, or lots of trips...

be ready to do some serious sucking up to people in crewing (heres a tip, offer to buy them duty free vodka or cigaretts) guarantees you overseas trips..

Now tell me, how sickening is that? or is it just me that thinks that?

[stevemelb]

So would that mean you always work atleast 20 days each month?

Any idea on when schools are or are they just looking for waitlist people again?

Any info appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve.

[andie74]

before accepting any job offers, my first question to MAM would be what contract would you be working under, and ask for a copy. this was a problem for some people when we started approx 16 months ago, we were told one thing at interviews, but then the contract we were given to sign on our last day of training stated different things.

it seems as though new casuals are going to be put on Contract C -although a Syd casual told me just today that he was told in the EBA meeting yesterday (by the union) that new people wont 'have' to go on it, that it'll be a choice for them- just like the rest of us.......but i dont really know whether i believe that though.

it was also said that we (the current casuals) wont be forced onto Contract C - but again, most of the casuals on contract A were kinda forced onto our contract B- so who knows whether to believe that either.

FYI the new Contract C states that every month you will be pre-allocated 20 days duties, which depending on your life/family/commitments may or may not appeal. so the company will pick what days you do and dont work. It doesnt appeal to me at all, mostly because it'll mean i have absolutely no control over my life from one month to the next. basically no choice of days off (except for 3 consecutives days per mth that can be 'requested'), more than likely rostered to work every weekend and all public holidays with no penalties (same flat rate 365 days per year), and possibly only ever getting Syd returns every day for 20 days.

i like the flexibility i have now, i can work 12 days or more (totally up to me) i can choose my days off, so if i have a special occasion i want to go to then i can.

Sebby, although i can agree that there were a few 'dodgy' casuals that may have made it though the MAM recruitment process, its somewhat defamatory to make statements like

"Qantas will have more to do with this next recruitment drive and less MAM as they havent had great feedback from the Crew that were last picked by the MAM recruiters"

personally i find comments like that insulting to both myself & the many, many other casuals i work with who do just as good a job as the full time F/A's. overall the majority of casuals who are online, and still employed are no different to full timers when it comes to getting the work done. please dont tar everyone with the same brush- thats like making a generalised statement that 'Qantas will never make a mistake, & will never employ anyone who doesnt do a great job' ........and of course that would be rubbish, bcos ive worked with the odd full timer who has been atrocious to work with too. most days, people dont even know if you are a casual until it comes up in conversation.

someone also asked about staff travel benefits- nope, there are no benefits at all.
holidays -you can theoretically take whenever you want- within reason i guess. i havent had any probs at all getting time off, i havent ever actually had to ask- i just work the first 12 days in one month, then the last 12 days in the following month- so essentially i have a whole month off, but havent had to ask/have it approved. if you wanted to work less than 12 days in a calendar month you would need to speak to MAM. Someone on here did say that they had trouble getting time off, but personally no-one that i know has had any real trouble.

AV days can be changed to non AV days as long as you do it more than 7 days in advance- we get our work allocated 7 days in advance so as long as you cant physically 'see' the duty on your line, then you can call crewing and ask to be made non AV. i do this all the time.

but again- i dont know how much of this info is of use to prospective casuals, bcos if you have to go onto Contract C most of this this wont really apply.

[Ascent]

Just checked my email and tried to register for Brisbane, but it wont allow me saying i'm too young - im 20. From what ive read on MAMs page the minimum age is 18. I thought it was a glitch on the webpage so i tried the phone registration and after all the stuffing about at the end it said you do not meet the minimum requirements for this intake we have kept you details on file.

Have MAM upped the minimum age limit?

Cheers,
BR

[wa.man]

From what I can gather if you are employed as a casual you arent gaurenteed any hours [unlikly I would think though but possible] But I suppose you would have to be prepared for the quiet months, down turn in avaition, Jetstar growing etc etc etc.
The big issue for me though would be...how do financial institues, banks etc feel about lending you money for home, car loans etc when you have no gaurenteed income??
I am presuming also there is no staff travel benifits as you arent employed by QF??

[andie74]

Wa.man, no, currently there is no guarantee of hours- however in the new contract C they will guarantee 20 days duties- but for that privelledge you will have to give up any control over your life to put it bluntly. but perhaps for some it will be appealing. Not me though. for those of us on contract B they will guarantee only 3 days per month.


i havent really tried the banks as far as a loan etc goes. but i think that as long as you can show that youve been employed (albeit casually) for a certain period of time, like a year or more and get a letter from MAM stating this also, then you probably would get something like a car loan. A mortgage is another story though- i believe they would expect you to have a fairly substantial deposit- ie more than someone with a full time job. although having said that,i do have a phone number for a lending insitution that was on a Current Affair that said it specialised in loans for people who are self employed, or casual (but regular) workers.

and yep , there have been a few month here and there that were 'poor' months as far as pay goes- but now that i know when its likely to happen i'll plan for it this year.

[sebby]

Andie, duely noted and I apologise if I offended anyone. You are absolutely right, and I agree some full timers are the worst of all and LH is just on a continuous down hill sloap. But I again refer to a few bad eggs tat make it bad for everyone else.

[overhere]

OK some follow-up questions.

1. With Contract C and the guarentee of duties - is that essentially 20 days of guarenteed paid work a month?

Also, the SYdney flying - how many average overnights would there be a month and why could contract C result in less overnights then contract B?

Thanks heaps

[SkySista]

thanks for all the info guys...

I really don't like the sound of 20 days you HAVE to work....

I mean, sure, I'm a casual now, and probably do work 20 or more days in a month, but.... I like being WILLING to do the work, rather than being MADE to.... if that makes sense....

I am extremely flexible with my current employer; although I have study commitments etc, I have said i am happy to consider what they need if staffing is short/last minute sick leave cover etc - to call me and 'll see what I can do. Most cases I can change things so I can work, it's rare that I can't. However I do want SOME flexibility in my day - so I HOPE it's not that 20 day thing.....

Still, I'll give it a go.... and...

Just wondering how likely it is, if based in Perth, to get trips like HK and SIN, and if the average newbie (after being with the company an appropriate period of course) could get, say 2 HK/SIN trips in a month or two????

And what do you think of Jo'burg? My sister was horrified to hear I'd consider going there, hahahaha

[sebby]

JNB is unlikely I would say as its a LH flying route and on 744, but your main sectors would be HKG, SIN, CGK rtn, maybe NRT aswell as some regional flying and ADL -SYD o/n and then straight on to PER. But with the nature of this industry you just never know!!

SS I have a feeling I may know you from another forum! French rolls ring a bell?????

[SkySista]

Argh!!! There was something else i was gonna ask and now i forgot!!!

ALso, what's the deal with promotions, etc.... do you have to work a certain amount of time to get 'better' trips or work B/First etc... or is it "merit-based".... also, can you apply for internal positions within QF or is that offlimits because you are not 'real' QF?? Just curious as to how one would become a 'proper' QF employee as opposed to a contractor/MAM one.... (yeah, I know, hell would probably freeze over before QF actually hire, but you know what I mean...)

i.e., can a MAM FA realistically expect to ever work long haul in the future??

Sebby, check your PMs!

[andie74]

will try and cover most of the questions guys! sorry its a bit long

1. Sebby no probs, i agree- a few bad eggs : )

2. with Contract C there will be 20 pre-allocated duties, duties can be either actual flying duties, airport reserve, and i think maybe AV spans (which is a home reserve- currently we get paid 4 hrs pay for being on call at home for 12 hrs)

3. the reason most of us are saying that you could get 'bad' flying is mostly bcos it would seem that most of the work will come from work that will be dumped by the full timers. currently under flexible work agreements they can try & dump work down to 80 or 85 hrs (i forget which one!)- so most of the dumped work that we get (Mel) is Syd returns, Canberra rtns & perth horrors...but mostly Syd rtns! basically the work that full timers dont want to do.

4. Overnites- theres no easy answer im afraid. they come & they go from one month to the next. it just depends on what you happen to get. we get a fair few perth horrors -leave @ 0730am, get to perth, 12hrs rest and leave perth the same nite at about 2200 (per time), sign off in Mel at 0520- some people hate them, i actually like them. you get a 9 1/2 hr duty, with about 22hrs DTA which isnt taxed and you have the whole of the second day off to do whatever, so id really prefer to do that than 2 syd returns for approx the same hrs- the DTA makes the difference.

im not sure if its clear to everyone or not, so im going to state the obvious.....apologies if you already know this but im getting the impression that maybe some people think we have a 'choice' in the work/duties we do. but we dont, we get to choose the actual days we work, not the duties. we dont bid like the full timers, so theres no way of saying whether someone could get 2 overnites, or 7 overnites, or even where those overnites will be. its pure luck. although having said that, as mamslave has alluded to, there does appear to be a 'club' who are managing to rort the system and obviously have contacts in crewing perhaps bcos they get an usually high number of regional trips etc. i dont pesonally know anyone doing it but i have heard the stories from quite a few people.

how long we have been flying doesnt have any bearing on the kind of work we get. someone from perth could better answer this, but i think the perth casuals probably would get the most regional flying of all of us. but i guess that could be changing with all the L/H people going across to S/H?

also as someone has pointed out today, with the new EBA we could possibly see them operated mainly by casuals as there will be no Band payments (easiest explained as penalty rates) for full time crew, also no meal allowance, overtime up from the current 8.5hrs to 12hrs. so its likely the full timers will not want to bid these any more. so as casuals we now
stand to lose plenty of money on those trips. for example in Per the Jakarta is worth great money for casuals but they will lose a couple hundred $$ on these with the new EBA.

5. as far as promotions is concerned- no we cant be promoted into other areas. for example, i know a casual who has been flying for i guess 4 yrs, who is also a pilot, and is even qualified to investigate plane crashes. he applied for a position at the training school, but was told he couldnt be offered the job bcos he was a casual and therefore not technically an employee of QF. Very frustrating for him.

also theres no B/first, only business & economy- and trust me......you'll work in business class the majority of the time- most of the crew who have been flying for a while dont ever seem to want to work in business- dont know why, i quite like it.

i dont want to sound negative in saying this, bcos mostly i feel pretty positive about my job, but im also a realist, and i accepted this job knowing that it was casual so i dont harp on the 'full time' issue too much myself, but i understand why its important to others. i wouldnt put too much hope in ever being full time or getting to long haul, but the new EBA does now say that there will be career progression for MAM casuals the same as for Jetstar, Qantaslink etc. how it will work i dont know. and how often it will happen is also a mystery. there are already probably about 500 casuals so even if 20 or 30 managed to make it across every year, it would be a while off for most. i guess the good news is that there is 'some' hope for those wanting to get full time eventually, but its best not too look so far ahead bcos it may never happen. if it does happen hopefully it will be a fair system that means those who have been flying the longest get the opportunity first, bcos there have been people flying as casuals for around the 4 yr mark & in my humble opinion they deserve it first.

hope that fills in some gaps!

[overhere]

andie74 - thanks very much for your posts, they've been really informative and helpful.

If there happen to be any SYD MAM'ers on the board who would be happy to answer a couple of sydney specific questions can you PM me?

Thanks again,