Ballot counted: BA Cabin Crew support industrial action if EG300 Imposed
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: london
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ballot counted: BA Cabin Crew support industrial action if EG300 Imposed
Well the votes from the BA Cabin Crew/BASSA ballot have been counted.
2731 voters support industrial action by BASSA.
130 voters against.
Just some background for those of you who don't know what the f*ck I am rambling n about! BA management are keen for it's cabin crew and it's trade union reps to accept a new 'Attendence Monitoring process' (EG300). Every other worker area (including the pilots) have signed up to this new policy, which BA says will save it a mint (it is harsher than the current policy, so less absence).
To give an idea of how desperate BA is for the cabin crew to accept the new system, they are offering GBP1000 each as a sweetner.
Us (the cabin crew) and our trade union reps have said that we are in support of a new system provided there are alleviations for Cabin Crew, or a higher trigger point. The reason being that we can not come to work with sinus, colds, intestinal problems (we are food handlers) etc etc. We also don't have the option to work from home when unwell either. All these alleviations have so far been turned down by BA management.
All is not rosy with the new system since it's implementation, especially with the Pilots. Record numbers of them are now 'in the system' and facing disciplinary action, or even dismissal which is the final stage (basically they declare you un-fit for the job if you reach this stage). So we are seeing an increasing amount of pilots coming to work ill, too afraid to go sick.
The implementation of this new EG300 policy for the cabin crew has been dragging on for over a year now.
Talks finally broke down between BASSA and management about a month ago with no resolution. BA's next step would be to 'impose' the new monitoring process.
BASSA sent out a ballot to all its members. Basically the question was 'would you support BASSA in industrial action if EG300 sickness monitoring is imposed?'. And well, for the answer see the beginning of my spiel!
Watch this space.............
2731 voters support industrial action by BASSA.
130 voters against.
Just some background for those of you who don't know what the f*ck I am rambling n about! BA management are keen for it's cabin crew and it's trade union reps to accept a new 'Attendence Monitoring process' (EG300). Every other worker area (including the pilots) have signed up to this new policy, which BA says will save it a mint (it is harsher than the current policy, so less absence).
To give an idea of how desperate BA is for the cabin crew to accept the new system, they are offering GBP1000 each as a sweetner.
Us (the cabin crew) and our trade union reps have said that we are in support of a new system provided there are alleviations for Cabin Crew, or a higher trigger point. The reason being that we can not come to work with sinus, colds, intestinal problems (we are food handlers) etc etc. We also don't have the option to work from home when unwell either. All these alleviations have so far been turned down by BA management.
All is not rosy with the new system since it's implementation, especially with the Pilots. Record numbers of them are now 'in the system' and facing disciplinary action, or even dismissal which is the final stage (basically they declare you un-fit for the job if you reach this stage). So we are seeing an increasing amount of pilots coming to work ill, too afraid to go sick.
The implementation of this new EG300 policy for the cabin crew has been dragging on for over a year now.
Talks finally broke down between BASSA and management about a month ago with no resolution. BA's next step would be to 'impose' the new monitoring process.
BASSA sent out a ballot to all its members. Basically the question was 'would you support BASSA in industrial action if EG300 sickness monitoring is imposed?'. And well, for the answer see the beginning of my spiel!
Watch this space.............
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So 20% of the cabin crew voted against AMP and the rest couldn't be @rsed to vote. Doesn't bode well for a strike ballot, does it.
Thats completely untrue, as BALPA pointed out in its last newsletter to BA pilots. Of course BASSA would never lie to you, would they?
Record numbers of them are now 'in the system' and facing disciplinary action, or even dismissal which is the final stage
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Plus - it would actually achieve what it says - and that would be an enormous reduction in CC sickies (particularly during Henley/Ascot/Wimbledon etc. etc.).
While we are here - what about the recent refuelling problems at T4, which meant that A/C had to taxi over to the T5 apron for fuel before setting off. At which point CC were declaring that this journey of about 1 1/2 miles was a sector and as a result they couldn't continue!
Oh and also, how about the a/c enroute to the States that was forced to divert because a message was received by the FC stating that CC management were insisting that they did so as they were going to overrun their hours (not operate into discretion).
Oh and thanks to BASSA for their message of support to the secondary striking baggage handlers following the Gate Gourmet issue.
YOUR UNION IS A CREDIT TO YOU GUYS !
While we are here - what about the recent refuelling problems at T4, which meant that A/C had to taxi over to the T5 apron for fuel before setting off. At which point CC were declaring that this journey of about 1 1/2 miles was a sector and as a result they couldn't continue!
Oh and also, how about the a/c enroute to the States that was forced to divert because a message was received by the FC stating that CC management were insisting that they did so as they were going to overrun their hours (not operate into discretion).
Oh and thanks to BASSA for their message of support to the secondary striking baggage handlers following the Gate Gourmet issue.
YOUR UNION IS A CREDIT TO YOU GUYS !
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the BA pilot who was furthest through the sytstem for a while, I can tell you that no one is at threat for their jobs (at least at the moment). While the policy could certainly do with improvement, and has made me pretty angry at times, BA have kept their word and no one has gone into stage 3, despite making the triggers. Stage 4 is the one to worry about.
Every body else is in it, no one has yet been sacked, so what is the great worry.
BASSA have most definitely lied to you in the latest communication, so who do you trust?
I can assure you that I don't trust management, but BASSA take the biscuit. When will you guys realise they are harming you, rather than defending you?
3000 odd supporting a strike is hardly a great worry.
Every body else is in it, no one has yet been sacked, so what is the great worry.
BASSA have most definitely lied to you in the latest communication, so who do you trust?
I can assure you that I don't trust management, but BASSA take the biscuit. When will you guys realise they are harming you, rather than defending you?
3000 odd supporting a strike is hardly a great worry.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA ballot.
ornithopter,
I appreciate some of the things that you said in your post, however, don't forget that the management style of the pilot community's managers and the cabin crew's are TOTALLY different.
Our management, unlike yours, are NOT renowned for their reasonable and pragmatic approach towards their staff.
In the past they have failed to deliver what they have promised-hence the high level of mistrust towards them among the cabin crew within BA at this time and towards the EG300 policy too.
Iam fully aware that alleviations can & have been used with the pilots,and we are told that each case will be dealt with on an individual basis,however I don't hold out much hope for our managment using any of these options.
Also, Please don't underestimate the strength of only "3000 odd" BASSA members striking-even this amount of people will have a very definite effect on the operation.
Let's hope it does'nt end up getting that far.
gladrags
I appreciate some of the things that you said in your post, however, don't forget that the management style of the pilot community's managers and the cabin crew's are TOTALLY different.
Our management, unlike yours, are NOT renowned for their reasonable and pragmatic approach towards their staff.
In the past they have failed to deliver what they have promised-hence the high level of mistrust towards them among the cabin crew within BA at this time and towards the EG300 policy too.
Iam fully aware that alleviations can & have been used with the pilots,and we are told that each case will be dealt with on an individual basis,however I don't hold out much hope for our managment using any of these options.
Also, Please don't underestimate the strength of only "3000 odd" BASSA members striking-even this amount of people will have a very definite effect on the operation.
Let's hope it does'nt end up getting that far.
gladrags
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LHR 27R
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
While I agree with trying to do something about unacceptable conditions then striking is not the way forward for BA.BA is still trying to get over the last strike.The company has an Image problem as alot of people wont fly BA as they dont know when you will next go on strike.Everytime BA strikes then it looses around £40 million pound never mind the repeat business that disappears.If BA needs to save Money then the jobcutting will start again.
How many more times before BA are finished by Strike Action.Alot of people are currently leaving BMI as a short haul carrier for BA because of BMI's new cheap fares implementation.If BA strike then all that will mean is that all the cheap no frills airline will make a killing and for Domestic then Trains may be a better option.
How many more times before BA are finished by Strike Action.Alot of people are currently leaving BMI as a short haul carrier for BA because of BMI's new cheap fares implementation.If BA strike then all that will mean is that all the cheap no frills airline will make a killing and for Domestic then Trains may be a better option.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: london
Posts: 376
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really feel sorry for the cabin crew
They are being worked over by both the managers and their own union
BASSA are peddling lies and half baked rhetoric to achieve something for their parent sponser, and thats a punch up with BA.
2731 members voting for strike action is simply not enough and BASSA know it, but thats not going to stop the egoistical juggernaut. They are going to to need to talk this one up a bit more.
Gladrags if this thing kicks off lets hope for your sake that more than 21% of the work force is with you
They are being worked over by both the managers and their own union BASSA are peddling lies and half baked rhetoric to achieve something for their parent sponser, and thats a punch up with BA.
2731 members voting for strike action is simply not enough and BASSA know it, but thats not going to stop the egoistical juggernaut. They are going to to need to talk this one up a bit more.
Gladrags if this thing kicks off lets hope for your sake that more than 21% of the work force is with you
In many ways I support the CC in their attempts to resist EG300. Within BA Engineering it has been introduced with many problems. Many are already at the stage 3 level. One LHR fitter came into work with chicken pox (being afraid to go sick) and gave one of his colleagues shingles!
Others are being branded as skivers for being off sick after car accidents etc.
It's a major success in the short term as sickness is down but soon, when the bird flu pandemic hits, entire shifts will go down! Bravo.
Others are being branded as skivers for being off sick after car accidents etc.
It's a major success in the short term as sickness is down but soon, when the bird flu pandemic hits, entire shifts will go down! Bravo.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gladrags - thanks for your reasonable reply, I was expecting more of a flaming!
I do agree with you - I cannot find much good to say about your management and I really do appreciate the lack of trust you guys have. My post isn't intended to defend them. What I cannot stand though is the constant stand off between BA management and BASSA.
BASSA's publications (letters, newletters, posters etc) are often so inflamatory and single minded and in the case above just pain untrue. I just wish there would be more understanding instead of face offs all the time. That way I wouldn't have to worry about another needless strike and both the crew and company would be better off. I cannot belive some of what BASSA "defends" supposedly on your behalf and how damaging they can be - while at the same time many of your colleagues will defend them to the death.
I certainly wouldn't want your scheduling agreement or pay structure and I'm afraid I hold most of BASSA with a deep distrust.
In this case I do not want to see more disruption, loss of revenue, worry about longterm prospects etc for something which all other staff members have applied to them.
We do need to stop dishonest sickness, while at the same time supporting those who are genuinely sick - the current process is not that good, but negatioation is the key. If BASSA demonstrated that within their ranks dishonest sickness was unacceptable, that would certainly help and there would be less need for the policy in the first place.
Allied to that is your poor leave and days off situation, but some intelligent changes to what BASSA defends as "your agreements" would benefit both sides and probably negate the need for a policy in the first place.
I do agree with you - I cannot find much good to say about your management and I really do appreciate the lack of trust you guys have. My post isn't intended to defend them. What I cannot stand though is the constant stand off between BA management and BASSA.
BASSA's publications (letters, newletters, posters etc) are often so inflamatory and single minded and in the case above just pain untrue. I just wish there would be more understanding instead of face offs all the time. That way I wouldn't have to worry about another needless strike and both the crew and company would be better off. I cannot belive some of what BASSA "defends" supposedly on your behalf and how damaging they can be - while at the same time many of your colleagues will defend them to the death.
I certainly wouldn't want your scheduling agreement or pay structure and I'm afraid I hold most of BASSA with a deep distrust.
In this case I do not want to see more disruption, loss of revenue, worry about longterm prospects etc for something which all other staff members have applied to them.
We do need to stop dishonest sickness, while at the same time supporting those who are genuinely sick - the current process is not that good, but negatioation is the key. If BASSA demonstrated that within their ranks dishonest sickness was unacceptable, that would certainly help and there would be less need for the policy in the first place.
Allied to that is your poor leave and days off situation, but some intelligent changes to what BASSA defends as "your agreements" would benefit both sides and probably negate the need for a policy in the first place.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here there and everywhere
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Madness!!!!!!!
So 20% of the cabin crew voted against AMP and the rest couldn't be @rsed to vote. Doesn't bode well for a strike ballot, does it.
We were not included.......kept in the dark........that tells a lot!!!
Pathetic, appalling, absolutely outrageous.
Let me serve Mr KW again next time he's on my flight (and obviously upgraded to business)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: london
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am neither in support, or against a new sickness policy.
I voted 'YES' to supporting industrial action, because as it stands, EG300 is un-fair to cabin crew.
However, I really think BASSA and BA need to address a system to sort out the constant skivers. Those who can't get the leave to look after their kids so they go sick. Those who don't like going to dar es salaam so they go sick.
The 'disretion' bit of EG300 really needs to be a bit more specific. I think it needs to state, in black and white, that if you have a certified broken limb, surgery, or for example chicken pox (like the engineer above) that these illnesses will not be counted towards trigger points.
If this was agreed, I wouldn't have a problem with EG300. But the management simply won't agree to it, stating that it would be covered by management 'discretion'. Unfortunately within the cabin crew community there are issues with trust between managers and their crew. We know that their pay is performance related, which their teams attendence forms a part of. So how liberal will their discretion be?
Once these issues are addressed and what exactly consitutes a trigger illness and what does not, I will support EG300. Until then, I will support industrial action.
I voted 'YES' to supporting industrial action, because as it stands, EG300 is un-fair to cabin crew.
However, I really think BASSA and BA need to address a system to sort out the constant skivers. Those who can't get the leave to look after their kids so they go sick. Those who don't like going to dar es salaam so they go sick.
The 'disretion' bit of EG300 really needs to be a bit more specific. I think it needs to state, in black and white, that if you have a certified broken limb, surgery, or for example chicken pox (like the engineer above) that these illnesses will not be counted towards trigger points.
If this was agreed, I wouldn't have a problem with EG300. But the management simply won't agree to it, stating that it would be covered by management 'discretion'. Unfortunately within the cabin crew community there are issues with trust between managers and their crew. We know that their pay is performance related, which their teams attendence forms a part of. So how liberal will their discretion be?
Once these issues are addressed and what exactly consitutes a trigger illness and what does not, I will support EG300. Until then, I will support industrial action.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I voted 'YES' to supporting industrial action, because as it stands, EG300 is un-fair to cabin crew.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: FL 370
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry dear Keeperboy,
But what a stupid thing to post on an open forum.
BA's forward bookings are down xx % because of the GG fiasco and subsequent dramas and here you are peddling poss. impending doom and gloom.
If you want to discuss such matters, then please do so in the confines of the usual joint forums.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot !
But what a stupid thing to post on an open forum.
BA's forward bookings are down xx % because of the GG fiasco and subsequent dramas and here you are peddling poss. impending doom and gloom.
If you want to discuss such matters, then please do so in the confines of the usual joint forums.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot !
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: on the golf course (Covid permitting)
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm,
I know that the BASSA ballot was for an indication of how many felt strongly enough to support a possible ballot for industrial action, but a 90% return supporting a ballot from those who bothered to respond is significant.
There, however, is a big difference between indicating an intention to strike if called and actually doing it ....BUT .... as demonstrated in 1998?, all it takes is for a few (c.100) cabin crew to man the picket lines, and another 2000 call in sick - partly or even mainly, to avoid conflict with bullies within the union cohorts on return. ie the weaker cc members felt better able to call in sick than face their militant colleagues.
Things have changed since '98?, we now have had various wildcat actions over swipe-in/out, GG, etc over the last few years, furthermore we now have 3 TGWU reps under disciplinary re the recent walkout, we also have (and possibly most significantly, WW at the helm.
I would caution my CC colleagues to beware of the above....
WW will win his first conflict with the unions in BA, if CC are the first, you will lose. In refusing to agree a date to discuss EG300 you are playin ginto his hands. The company will choose when to take on/break a union, it decided in August not to make that the time (under Rod and Mike Street). Now WW is the boss, November would be a bad month to front up against WW over EG300, 'cos Nov is typically a weak month for business travel, and the company will be relishing the challenge.
As Clint would have said...."go on punk, make my day"
I know that the BASSA ballot was for an indication of how many felt strongly enough to support a possible ballot for industrial action, but a 90% return supporting a ballot from those who bothered to respond is significant.
There, however, is a big difference between indicating an intention to strike if called and actually doing it ....BUT .... as demonstrated in 1998?, all it takes is for a few (c.100) cabin crew to man the picket lines, and another 2000 call in sick - partly or even mainly, to avoid conflict with bullies within the union cohorts on return. ie the weaker cc members felt better able to call in sick than face their militant colleagues.
Things have changed since '98?, we now have had various wildcat actions over swipe-in/out, GG, etc over the last few years, furthermore we now have 3 TGWU reps under disciplinary re the recent walkout, we also have (and possibly most significantly, WW at the helm.
I would caution my CC colleagues to beware of the above....
WW will win his first conflict with the unions in BA, if CC are the first, you will lose. In refusing to agree a date to discuss EG300 you are playin ginto his hands. The company will choose when to take on/break a union, it decided in August not to make that the time (under Rod and Mike Street). Now WW is the boss, November would be a bad month to front up against WW over EG300, 'cos Nov is typically a weak month for business travel, and the company will be relishing the challenge.
As Clint would have said...."go on punk, make my day"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: London
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and the company will be relishing the challenge....................I doubt that very much somehow.
After all the bad publicity BA has had over the August/GG fiasco I doubt it can ill afford anymore conflict and bad publicity.
After all the bad publicity BA has had over the August/GG fiasco I doubt it can ill afford anymore conflict and bad publicity.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: here there and everywhere
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2861 votes is not enough. That is only 20% of the cabin crew.
BASSA at LGW said nothing. Leave alone CC89.
Jeeeeeeeezzzzz......Let me have a face to face conversation with KW. Cannot wait.
FBW
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: london
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flyingdutchman not only is it your post that is stupid, but also incorrect.
Firstly, this is not a forum that Joe average on the street would pop into for a look. It is either airline employees or those that have not much else to do except partcipate in Cabin crew forums I guess!
Did you also post your two pence worth in the Virgin pay dispute/industrial action forum? Or the (multiple) Qantas ones?
Secondly, on figures released on Tuesday, forward booking on BA short haul flights are up 1.6% since August (compared with last years figures for same period) and up 2.7% on long haul flights (ditto).
What do you suggest we do? Oh yes, look what damage this might do to BA, yes, please walk all over us. please come along and impose what ever you want on us, because quite frankly we are all to scared to do anything about it?
The thing is, we know full well that as soon as BASSA calls for an industrial ballot the management will back down. As they did last year with our pay dispute. And if they don't and if it does go to a strike, like has already been said........only a hundred or so actually need to picket. It's the disruption 2,000 crew do when calling in sick that can really do the damage.
Surely a more sensible option on both sides would be a bit of give and take? BA management to acknowledge that crew cannot work with a broken limb or post-surgery for instance? And guarantee that such instances of sickness won't count towards said trigger points.
Firstly, this is not a forum that Joe average on the street would pop into for a look. It is either airline employees or those that have not much else to do except partcipate in Cabin crew forums I guess!
Did you also post your two pence worth in the Virgin pay dispute/industrial action forum? Or the (multiple) Qantas ones?
Secondly, on figures released on Tuesday, forward booking on BA short haul flights are up 1.6% since August (compared with last years figures for same period) and up 2.7% on long haul flights (ditto).
What do you suggest we do? Oh yes, look what damage this might do to BA, yes, please walk all over us. please come along and impose what ever you want on us, because quite frankly we are all to scared to do anything about it?
The thing is, we know full well that as soon as BASSA calls for an industrial ballot the management will back down. As they did last year with our pay dispute. And if they don't and if it does go to a strike, like has already been said........only a hundred or so actually need to picket. It's the disruption 2,000 crew do when calling in sick that can really do the damage.
Surely a more sensible option on both sides would be a bit of give and take? BA management to acknowledge that crew cannot work with a broken limb or post-surgery for instance? And guarantee that such instances of sickness won't count towards said trigger points.