How does the employment in Vistjet work?
Are you a "contractor"?
Or everyone is permanently employed by the Maltese company?
Or they have multiple secondary companies in various European states to employ pilots locally in their domicile?
Are any residents of certain European countries excluded from being offered a job in Vistajet? The reason I am asking is that on PPJN there is a note "No French airports" for commuting.

Thanks

CloudChopper95

Incorrect. Everyone is on full salary. Has been so since July last year.

What do you mean by this? That you can only take Annual Leave when you have 13 days off on the month or that they use those 13 days as annual leave?

It means that 13 days off a month already include your holiday entitlement. All training and mandatory company events to be completed in your days “off” as well.

So you cannot get off longer than 13 days in a row?

Not under normal circumstances, as far as I know

Basically you have no leave. As you would have had those 13 days off regardless, they now just substitute your 'VACATION LEAVE' for your 13 days off when in actual fact and BY LAW it is meant to come out of the 17 working days!!

Its disgusting treatment and US or Australian pilots would never put up with this nonsense but in good old European fashion the pilots just bend over and take it, anything to fly a shiny jet!!

Interesting point of view - having more time off each year than someone working 5 days a week with 6 weeks holiday is "disgusting treatment?? And how do you figure out that it has to come out of the 17 by law? Every country I know of (which does not include Aus, so I can't comment on there) merely has a legal miminum number off days off per year - and i think in the US it is only 14 in the whole year. If your contract states that those have to be taken at particular times that is normal. Ask any factory worker!

assessment
 

hey guys
any info for the assessment process?

I got a phonecall yesterday from HR and they said it will take a while before shortlisted candidates will be contacten due to the large amount of applicants. Few weeks at the most she said

So it means you were already shortlisted? Or why would HR call you to inform this?

I applied last year and my application got accepted but due COVID cancelled. Wanted to know if I had to apply again or if they would consider my previous application. Along with the email I sent a list full of question about the application and due to the high work rate at the office she called me instead of writing back.

Ok, that makes sense. Congratulation to passing the assessment, hope they will give priority for those who passed the selection.
Did you happen to find out how many pilots they actually need?
Did they specify to which of the aircrafts they require crew?

Btw, could you shed some light on the assessment in general?

Thanks a million and good luck to us all.

Unfortunately I did not make it to the assessments due to covid so cannot give you any information on the assessment

as in the application they are requiring application for the entire fleet, including the Citation XLS, according to rumours they are looking for about 40 people, but as I said it is a rumour.

Sorry I cannot give you more information

What about career possibilities? Like for example if someone upgrades on a business jet, is it likely to also get a skipper position with an airline on the A320/B737? For instance, RYR takes only people with >30,000kgs experience. Pre-Covid, some other operators wanted >27,000kgs. Let's say you're flying a businessjet of 7,000kg or something. What are the chances? Or are PIC hours on >27,000kgs a must?

What are your experiences?

For starters, we are not factory workers, please compare aviation companies with other aviation companies. Following your logic you should be happy to also only earn the same money as a train or bus driver, since we do the same stuff as them.
And you don't ask your highly valued employees to perform their training and travelling on their OFF-days, this is disgusting, too. Vacation means vacation: vacation days replace working days. In my outfit luckily it's like this: 18 vacation days = one calendar month OFF, period. Don't quote me on it, but as far as I am aware it is even part of work legislation in our contract state.

It's always as much as you allow an employer to go. Get organized, found a trade union, fight for your conditions and don't accept everything what the "Tsar" is dictating.

It's a different business in my opinion... Going from a domestic/continental airline to an intercontinental cargo airline, the requirements are not the same either. I think it will all depend on what the demands are of an airline. Take in to consideration there are nowadays loads of pilots on the market due to the pandemic, with massive amounts of experience. If a company is looking for skilled commanders, they will have their pick. Everything can change in a heartbeat (as we have experienced last year)

I appreciate the information provided, thanks!
40 sounds like a real big number, never the less, this is a rumour network.

^^^^^^^^^^What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The work pattern is fixed 17/13 and no extra holidays. Your vacation days are included in your 13 days off. You do have vacation as per contract but they will be used for your 13 days off. If I remember correct they used 4 days per month. On top of this you do all your training like simulators, crm and fire courses on your off days. This means that around 3-4 off periods will be interrupted per year. If you include all this extra work, the working days over the year is more 18/11. If you end up on the 350/605 fleet and have your simulator training in Montreal it will be closer to 18.5/10.5. Travel days were inside these 17 days so day 1 and 16/17 are usually dedicated travel days. You will always be home on time under normal circumstances, unless that has changed but I don't think so.

The outfit is challenging from a social view and issues arise if you have special family events planned on your working days like weddings or funerals. If you plan to have kids, make sure they are planned for your off days!

The leadership style from the office can be summed up in a word as dated. An ignorant management that doesn't have the slightest interest in improving work conditions. It was constant talk of cost savings and the need to work harder to make it work.

On the good side, the flying is dynamic and you will travel the world and see places that you will not even come close to in any other airline. But you will not have much time to explore and the schedule is unpredictable and they can call you out anytime they want and that did also happen frequently. You will work HARD.

The company is run with pretty high standards and operating procedures and at first it will look professional. But there will always be a lot of grey areas in this type of operation and especially with this company culture. Another problem is the constant work life balance and unless you are 25, single and having no friends or friends you want to run away from I would not recommend this outfit. 50+ freshly divorced could work as well. You will hardly see home. At the end of the day it is of course a job and VJ will provide that. They will also pay for all type ratings for a 3 year bond. Accept that. Also no crew food provided.

It is positive that jobs are created even during a crisis like now but fact is also that these jobs advertised does not suit everybody.

People were on permanent position with Maltese contract or freelancing contract. You could choose and what you choose mostly depends on where you want to live. In some countries there were no official gateways and then people went for the freelancing contract and took full responsibility for tax payments. There were no, and I guess still aren't, French gateways but I think that would be acceptable with a freelancing contract. Most French were commuting from nearby airports from outside France.
Yes they had secondary companies in many European countries where you would receive your salary from. Like, Spain, Italy, Germany, UK etc.
No I have never heard of anyone being excluded because you had a specific nationality. Most nationalities from all over Europe were represented on the flight deck and in the cabin. Just don't be male cabin crew as they have never hired one.

Thanks for the information "Setting"
So basically today you have only 2 options, permanent in Malta or Freelance?
No more "local" companies, correct?

Thanks

Since when do they have XLS??

These planes are for the new company XOJET Europe bought by Vista Global Holding.

I have been asking around on LinkedIn and got in to contact with a crew member who flies the Global Fleet:

- the 13 off days fall every month about the same period, however, it is possible to swap with crew
- If your trip is extended, or if you offer to work more, you get extra money and bonuses (bonus is payed the following February)
- Salary could be better, but in return you get a stable working pattern and his opinion is that the company takes good care of you. For the contact I had, it suited him and his personal life perfectly (I interpret it as 'easily adjustable to your life')
- It can be very very long days on the Global, however, fair layover times (2 to 3 days) so you do get your rest.
- Hotels are almost always topnotch
- Flying approximately 600-700 hours a year and approximately 3 to 4 years till command (also depending on your entry hours)
- Tax situation is dependant upon the country where you live and if they have an agreement with Malta
- Catering is mixed; sometimes crewfood, sometimes food that pax did not eat (which is more than sufficient) or take something yourself. Asking around about this; almost all the companies that have a structure like VistaJet do the same.
- The person I was in contact with said as well that commuting is good (outside of Corona) and quite often gets business class
- Money is not bad and per diems included in should be good!

In my opinion the off day system is not the best; but travelling the world (or throughout your continent) having 2 weeks off for me is more than enough and being able to get on the road after being 2 weeks at home is quite nice. I think this lifestyle should suit you. People I know working at major cargo operators are away for 19 days and get 12 days off and loads of minimum rest on their trips. Or, working 5-4 on a predictable roster is good for planning purposes. But, everybody has their own wishes and demands of a company.

My experience of pilots (i am one as well) is that they are 'Most Annoying' people to work with... it is never good; it is never enough money (people my age in "normal" jobs earn less than half sometimes IN WESTERN EUROPE), the hotels are not good enough, the layovers are too short, the layover are too long, the FO/CPT is an asshole/lazy/arrogant, the food is not good, the passengers are cranky, management is not good, management this, management that. If you go to a company, you know what you sign up for. No one ever gets the best of the best, because it does not exist.

People who are aspiring to join VistaJet don't let your motivation be knocked down by someone who does not agree with something; apply for it if you want, experience it yourself and make a decision yourself.

I'd rather regret choosing something, than regretting to not experience it all!

I never heard of any local companies when I was there and I don't think it has changed since then. The main option is employed by Vistajet Malta. Then depending in which country you live in you have a Malta contract Spanish version, Malta contract german version, Malta contract UK version. There is no difference in T&C for you as an employee. It's for VJ as they have to pay different social tax depending on where you live. No one is forced into a freelancing contract unless you ask for it yourself and to be fair this is a good thing with the employment structure in VJ. Not like many low cost airlines where they force you to set up your own freelancing company.
The best contracts were the Austrian, Italian and Spanish where you hardly pay any tax at all. It makes a very low salary suddenly one of the best around. It's difficult to beat a Vistajet captain take home salary in Austria even with a well paid owners job. That's why some people say the salary is great and others living in north Europa saying it's not so good, where you can't use loopholes in the tax systems.

Basically, I do agree with you. I am sure there are quite a few colleagues who will be happy with the Vista lifestyle and I am all fine with that. But once you have seen something "better", you don't want to give it up, or would you?

And that's exactly why one should be informed of all the contractual and factual details before applying, especially if he or she is coming from another job in aviation. Just to avoid disappointment. I am well aware that in general the crew life at Vista is nice, we keep running into them at various places and most of them are really cool - like in most other companies. One just needs to make sure that the contract/conditions do not contain any personal deal breakers. I personally would NOT be happy to be asked to work on my days OFF (training, commuting etc.), because this is duty and I only perform duty on duty days. So, Vista would probably be not my cup of tea.

Anyone have any further info about license requirements? Careers site says "part-fcl" license, not specified as EASA... So if someone hasn't got an EASA license, can they still work for VJ as they operate European AOC. I have heard of Australian and south African pilots flying for vista and don't hold easa licenses. Anyone shed any light? Cheers

That depends on the alternatives. I just read on the internet, that "Deutsche Bahn" (german rail) is massively recruiting train drivers among the thousands of currently unemployed pilots. Train drivers do not get weekends off on a routine basis and are not home every night either. I am pretty sure that they don't usually stay in five star hotels or get business class airline tickets when proceeding home after their shift. And about pay I would rather not elaborate. No idea if their proceedings and trainings are done on duty or off days.
If I had to choose between train or Vistajet (luckily I don't) I would know what to take.

Regards
Max

What company do you work for and are they hiring haha

i understand your position, definitely. But I do not believe that people who are in the comfort of their jobs now, would want to change. Stability is key at this moment. And you are absolutely right; once you’ve tasted the perfect thing you do not want anything else.

But, the talks on this page are somewhat quite negative. Not just on this Forum, but on loads of them!

The problem with some pilots are that they compare themselves "down" and not "up". I believe the undertaking, let alone the self sponsored training, of a fully qualified pilot requires somewhat more and are somewhat more demanding than that of the German train driver.

Eat My Shorts and Tinfoil Hat
First, my comment about factory workers related to legal requirements. As far as the law is concerned we are no different.
But i think the main issue is people, including a lot on here, misundestanding the contract. You are not doing anything in your "off" days. The contract is to fly the 17 day rotations and to attend sim training and the week in Malta. The rest of the time beyond that is your "off" time. Since it is more than is legally required, it is perfectly reasonable of them to offer it. If that and the salary are acceptable to your goals and lifestyle, then go ahead and sign it - i wouldn't. But to start foaming about it being "disgusting treatment" is delusional.
If enough people don't sign then they will be forced to improve it by market forces, but i'm not holding my breath on that.

It will probably sound arrogant, but I personally would not join either. The company I work for has a subsidiary where the roster is 20 ON, 10 OFF. Even worse than Vista. No way.

I was made redundant last year (and got the job back soon after) and I was not prepared to do this kind of stuff. I was prepared for 1 or 2 years of not being employed in aviation, maybe take some other job outside aviation in the meantime. A war chest always helps, fill it up in the good years!

More space for others to join! “The ideal image” of a job in aviation is something that is seen in one of those movies with Leonardo Di Caprio. Good airline, recognition for the job, good pay and “sweet honeys” walking next to you!

People need to start getting their heads of the dirt and realize that there is only a handful of jobs like those and when you are in, it’s not good again!

Maybe they are just being realistic? Apart from some lucky niches, working conditions for pilots have generally become worse and worse over the 30 years that I have been in this business. Airlines and general aviation alike. There is not much "up" left to compare oneself with.

AFAIK it takes between two and three years to become a fully qualified train driver here. Paid for by the employer and with a salary while you are being trained. Thereafter you must work your way up from small regional train via night freight to shiny high-speed train. It is not entirely unsimilar to a flying career only that you do not have to pay for anything yourself... I know a guy who started as a medical doctor, later became a pilot with a regional airline and is now a train driver in Switzerland. According to him the best life he's ever had and no way he is going back to one of his previous professions.

Could I ask who the 20on/10off is with? Please PM me if you’d prefer not to divulge in public. I’m making the transition into corporate after a long time in the Airlines (long held ambition and all that) and am very interested in what options there are out there. Thanks a lot.

Why should they? Everyone is entitled to be happy wherever they wish to be at. I am very happy in my place, the almost ideal mixture of roster, salary, vacation and operating conditions. Come on, there's always something to nag about, no matter what business you work in! It's human and as you know the grass is always greener on the other side. And I can assure that in my outfit some people may be whinging a bit, but after all most would not change, no way!

Hello!

This is not my experience. In my previous life I was an aerospace engineer (as in the german "Ingenieur" not the english "mechanic") both in the scientific and industrial environment, and the nagging was maybe 10% of what it is in aviation. Many former colleagues are still happily working in the same position they were in when I left them to fulfill my heavenly dream (at 1/2 of my previous income...) and most of them will stay in their same job until they retire.

The best way into corporate is to find a wealthy individual or company with some modest traveling requirements (not too much, otherwise you will never be home) and talk them into buying a business jet with you as their captain and your best buddy as co-captain or co-pilot. It has been done that way many times and usually works quite well (until the new aircraft owner finds out that he can fly at 1/3 of the cost by using NetJets or similar outfits - therefore you need to find someone so dirt-rich that money doesn't matter at all). The second best alternative is to have a buddy who did that for you already and invites you to be his co-captain :)

No, not necessarily realistic at all. Pessimistic and realistic is not the same - in contrast to what some believe. I do feel sorry for a lot of pilots that are left in disbelieve and consequently disgruntled. It's healthy to sometimes breath in an take a good look around and see what around - and not just in one direction.

And this is the beauty of the differences in us humans - and what we as individuals what from life. It's also hard to know what it's like to do something else unless you've actually done it - however parallels can be used while imagining this other "path". It's also often overlooked that the professional pilot profession is a stressful unless you're "cut" for it - it's not an earthbound job, leaving you with (almost always) "an out". So, job satisfaction is very much an individual thing. Now, for the majority of us, we deal with the stress and it's in effect no a negative stress - and a lot of us thrive from it - while those of us lucky enough get a reasonable (relatively speaking) reward for flying these aeroplanes. Each to his own!