Piaggio Avanti

[AdamFrisch]

Due to Avantair's shifty practices of borrowing parts between planes etc to keep them airworthy, the FAA revoked the Airworthiness Certificate on all the ex-Avantair P180's until they'd had a thorough review by a DAR. I think most, if not all, are over that hurdle now, but that could account for the 5 that never made it back into service.

[DALMD-11]

Any word on whatever happened to S. Santos and company ?

[Ian Corrigible]

Originally Posted by DALMD-11

Any word on whatever happened to S. Santos

Now selling diet supplements.

[AdamFrisch]

Spoke to an Avanti operator today. They have 4 of them, but selling the oldest one. It’s actually for sale for under a million, which is pretty cheap. Yes, I did dream about it, but no, still way too much for me.

They have it on a part 135 here in the US. He said the customers love it, as it’s almost stand cabin up and super quiet. They much prefer it, even to some jets. I asked about maintenance etc and he said the plane doesn’t really break down anymore than anything else, but when it does the US service centers only have stocked parts for it about 50% of the time. So, he said sometimes you have to wait for a part to get shipped from Italy, which takes longer. On average he said it’s about 5 days to get a part. He also said parts are about 15-20% more expensive than on a their CJ. Also, he said that it doesn’t have great range, due to thin wings. He said it’s a 1000nm plane, maybe 1100nm if pushed.

I still want one. Bad.

[avionimc]

Thought the Avanti range would be more. Guess it depends on how many pax and FL.
The production of the Avanti Evo has moved to a brand new factory at Albenga Airport in 2016, with new service solutions for parts and support, even for the older models (eight U.S. service centers).
Indeed, that's a dream airplane. Let us know if you buy that one

[dmark1]

Originally Posted by CL300

First of all , there is no Stage 3 for turboprops..This being said, the Avanti will be banned at some airports, we are working actively to do so, this for the good of everyone under the flight path of this so called airplane.
US of A did it alreadyin some places, we are in the trail for the same.
Nothing personal, just business.

Sorry to resurrect this thread but rarely have I read a more asinine ill informed comment from a so called "pilot".

[dmark1]

Originally Posted by CL300

The issue is not on the speed of the plane nor its cabin size, it is about its noise. This design is flawed, period. The engineers did not bother. We invite Piaggio test pilots to try to demonstrate a way to fly the plane, in a more environment friendly manner. Not only they did not show up, but they dropped the ball to a poor soul, who found bitterly, that the "noise alleviating procedure" for traffic pattern, would prevent him to land commercially at the said airport.
So far, some operator are mandating their pilots to operate outside the AFM, and wrote a somewhat part B, trying to circumnavigate the outcome. But the scheme is in motion, and Piaggios WILL BE banned at some noise sensitive airport.Snowball effect will do the rest. Tip of the day : do not buy any.

If you want to fly fast get a Falcon, or a Global, or anything without props. If you want to go anywhere else for the years to come : buy a King Air

7 years later and we are still waiting on that "ban" LOL.

[eyealess]

WinkWink.

I started brokering exec jets back in 2016. A lot of our clients who previously flew in Lears and Citations absolutely love the Piaggio. It’s our go to aircraft for European charters. The feedback from them is how quiet and spacious the cabin is. The problem we have is getting hold of them. There’s not a huge amount in comparison to say King Airs or Citations

Having had the pleasure in the past of flying right hand seat in the Avanti, I can only say positive things about the aircraft. Speed, alt, economy all great for Jet like characteristics.

As has been mentioned here previously regards the manufacturer itself. Piaggio are looking for another buyer/investor but obvs at the moment things are somewhat difficult. Technical dispatch has never caused us or me a problem either in the flying sense or chartering sense. In fact it’s been100%.

Noise issues do not seem a major problem here in Europe although I see this is causing a rather long debate on here with our US friends.

Carry out due diligence regards the undercarriage. There is an upgrade for older Avantis to be fitted with this upgrade which extends TBO massively. To purchase one without will cost serious money going forward.

Happy hunting.

[dmark1]

Thanks! I am purchasing SN 1149 which is currently undergoing a gear overhaul so I won't at least have to worry about that for 12 years. New engines too.

All for less than the cost of a decent Mustang (which was my previous airplane). I absolutely love everything about this ship. FlightSafety next month then I am going to fly the snot out it!

[dmark1]

7 years later and still waiting on that ban.....LOL

[dmark1]

Originally Posted by LASJayhawk

Tel. There is an issue with the drag from a dead jet engine that plays into it.

You do know the P180 has a rather severe pitch instability at higher altitudes?

The right circumstances can create a pitch porpoise so severe all the pilot can do is hang on to the yoke for dear life and get low and slow to stop it. Happened to 3 that I know of ( as of about 7 years ago). What started the problem was under tensioned bridle cables on the pitch servo, but once it starts only low and slow stops it.

P180 is an Italian sports car, KA is a station wagon.

Oh and thanks for continuing to point out my lack of education. I was not aware I had sent you a resume.

Don't you love it when people that have never flown the airplane talk about flight characteristics that don't exist. No such problem exists on the Piaggio, but here I am fighting a 7 year old fight. LOL

[EvaDestruction]

Originally Posted by dmark1

Sorry to resurrect this thread but rarely have I read a more asinine ill informed comment from a so called "pilot".

I must agree.

As to the Avanti, I never got to fly one but wanted to badly. I put a resume in with Avantair just a few months before they collapsed.

They do have the unique sound, but what performance at altitude.

[avionimc]

MILLION FLIGHT HOURS - PIAGGIO AVANTI

Piaggio has produced 246 Avantis, of which 213 are in service, with 96 in Europe, 95 in the Americas, 18 in Asia-Pacific, and four in Africa and the Middle East, according to the company. The Avanti with the most flight hours – more than 11,000 – is still operating in Canada.

https://www.flightglobal.com/busines...141425.article

Thank you Alessandro Mazzoni for designing the best airplane in its class.

You Tube

[Jim Moscardini]

THANKS!

I’d like to thank you all for this thread. My wife is thinking of upgrading from our MU2 to a jet, and if I’m going to down that path I’m damn sure going to research the Avanti first. However, it’s been almost impossible to find real & current owner/pilot experiences to draw information from. Those reports here have been exceptionally informative. I invite (Hell - I implore!) anyone with first hand Avanti experience to contact me directly.

BTW: As we already own and enjoy an MU2, we’re obviously sooooo concerned with external noise (NOT! - lol)

Thanks again - Jim

[formulaben]

Something I'd be very mindful of prior to purchasing is the customer support aspect. Mitsubishi has been excellent in supporting the MU-2 despite not being in production for decades; it's possible you might be conditioned to expect the same going forward. Piaggio on the other hand has had complaints of parts availability for many years...your fun new bird could be a very expensive and embarrassing paperweight if you can't fly it due to lack of parts support/availability.

[Jim Moscardini]

Thanks Formula. The "fantastic" support of the MU2 is kinda an urban legend of late. My bird is mostly maintained by one of the three remaining service centers for the MU2. Last year I was lucky enough to get my hands on the "last" attitude gyro in stock and the "last" wing tip fuel gauge in stock. These quite essential components may have the next victim grounded for a while until a new/overhauled/salvage unit is found for his bird. This gave me great pause. Despite the current corporate situation, at least the Avanti is still being manufactured and any bird I might acquire would be at least 30 years younger than our Mits. Parts availability has to be evaluated along with reliability though. The posts here from actual owners/pilots don't seem to imply that it's an unusually unreliable bird. That said, I have no doubt that the Avanti would be more of a risk than a Phenom 100 of the same age, but it's also much more of a plane. I'm strictly a Part 91 guy now, so a little down time just means I won't be flying for a while; I don't have a "Bottom Line" to worry about. However, the dearth of recent owner experience information available is making those trade off evaluations difficult. That's why I was so happy to find this thread today. Keep those cards and letters coming, kids!

[megan]

Jim Moscardini, you need at least ten posts before you can use the sites messaging service. Post your email addy here if you wish replies.

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by Jim Moscardini

I’d like to thank you all for this thread. My wife is thinking of upgrading from our MU2 to a jet, and if I’m going to down that path I’m damn sure going to research the Avanti first. However, it’s been almost impossible to find real & current owner/pilot experiences to draw information from. Those reports here have been exceptionally informative. I invite (Hell - I implore!) anyone with first hand Avanti experience to contact me directly.

BTW: As we already own and enjoy an MU2, we’re obviously sooooo concerned with external noise (NOT! - lol)

Thanks again - Jim

Jim

I'm pretty sure you read "Flying" but its worth going back and looking at the experiences of Dick Karl when he upgraded to a jet a few years back. He bought, with some very good advice, a small jet - after a birdstrike he found he couldn't source a new front spar at any reasonable price and had to write it off........... and buy something else...

[Jim Moscardini]

Thanks Megan. The site won’t let me post my email address until I have ten posts, so I’ll apologize up front: I’ll have to make some potentially unnecessary posts.

[Jim Moscardini]

Astutias: is your warning about the Avanti or upgrading to a jet in general. I’ve heard a similar story about someone who’d bought a Premier. Is the the same one? I’ll try to find the article. Thanks for weighing in.