Gulfstream II

[gbruton]

I'm calling this post complete BS.

All I did was type in Biocybertronicsinc and Alexandria, VA and this came up.. https://www.facebook.com/biocybertronicsinc - looks like they just started in Sept. of 2012. It mentions that "new manufacturing plant" they are looking for. Business must be booming check out that new 4 room office! Totally can afford that multi-million dollar corporate jet.......

All for people starting a business and following there dream but c'mon man!

EDIT - Looks like the company was founded in 2010. But they just moved the Corporate offices from UK to USA in Sept. All 4 of them.

[FrankR]

Um, one Billionaire I used to fly had an office of approximately 1,500 Sq. Ft. and drove a five year old Toyota Corolla.....

Another, a professional sports guy who lived in Florida, had us stop on the way to the airplane and get fast food for catering for his private 737...

The moral here is that a small office and a large bankroll are not mutually exclusive.

FR

[gbruton]

I agree. I know a guy who runs a 100 Million dollar a year company out of 2,000sqft with three people in his office.

But he is not on a forum asking aircraft purchase questions, which to be honest if no one else thought were some big red flags then I really do not know what to say.

Also, as many people here who fly corporate jets for companies. IF the company can afford to purchase a jet the CEO does not come onto a forum and ask the questions he asked. The company who go through the proper channels to acquire a aircraft... which 99 out of a 100 is not through PPRUNE.

Also, not hating on the the 4 room office but come on. They are in the middle of "buying/setting up" a HUGE manufacturing plant but only have what.... four employees? Please..... just the personal and infrastructure to execute that idea or expansion he is saying they are about to do requires teams of people.

Also, If you did go to the facebook site or the website... "the CEO" is also the PR rep sending out the press releases.... Another red flag.

All I was voicing is there seemed to be a lot of flags going up based of what he was saying and further research seem to back what I thought..which it was just BS.

[mutt]

which to be honest if no one else thought were some big red flags then I really do not know what to say.

Did you consider the fact that we really dont care if its BS? It gives us the opportunity to amuse ourselves discussing a subject close to our hearts without investing time, money or effort.

If the guy is sitting in his bedroom with his fantasy company, so what?

Mutt

[gbruton]

We or You?

Needless to say I do agree with you. I do enjoy reading topics like this one and reading everyone's input. All I simple pointed out was after his last post is that his inquire to buy a GII is BS. And based of the PM responses I got a few others seem to agree.

[205T7]

205T7

I am in the market for a low time G550, can you help?

[fleigle]

Call Gulfstream.
Oh!, and you'll need Pilots.

[Booglebox]

If this guy really is a troll, he's one of the most realistic I've seen. Or, I'm just gullible.
Anyhoo, found this part of the BioCybertronics website quite amusing, especially considering the MPG of a GII.

Alongside this Bio Cybertronics believes it is everyone’s reasonability to ensure we maintain and support the environment we operate in for future generations, ergo we have several green sustainable business practices in place.
These include but are not limited to;

• Printing everything that has to printed, is printed on recycled paper.
• Encouraging the use of E-Documents at all times, instead of printing them.
• Reusing shipping materials.
• Recycling.
• Implementing more online services that require less paper and shipping supplies, such as scanning and uploading of exhibits, online scheduling, virtual upload of audio, and online access to transcripts.
• The option to fax or email invoices instead of mailing them.
• Integrating green practices into our expansion and growth.
• Commuting together.
• Using recycled paper and soy-based inks for all envelopes and stationery.

[nch334]

GEE CYBERTRON

Gentlemen let CyberT have his G2 he can run it on recycled vegeatable oil and have soybean cakes for inflight catering and retread tissue for his potty. He can also hire P2FLY crew if he so desires its his money . That been said great thread and even greater aircraft once upon a time.

[Sillypeoples]

For those of you that aren't aware of corporate flight ops...at some point some guy with a bunch of money considers getting a plane, a yacht, building a home, investing his money in this or that...and there is an initial research process...

Usually it starts with talking to his buddy the airline pilot with zero corporate flight experience or his CFII that is teaching him to fly his Cessna 182, or the pilots that currently fly him around in charter, having zero clue about aircraft acquisition, or maintenance...or the aircraft sales guy in the glossy brochure that is trying to lay away the fresh one he's got on the other end of the line.

So real or not, social media being what it is...wouldn't surprise some guy throws it out there that he's considering a plane on here...and guess what? Surprise surprise...you guys failed the test..

You didn't inquire into this capital costs, the 'why' of a GII, didn't ask about his mission specifics, just jumped right in and called him an idiot, after of course telling him to go get a Challenger...and if he is for real, chances are he called Netjets and some slick sales guy just said 'Don't worry about it, write a check and the plane will be out front in 3 hours'...and that's how they do it, because corporate pilots have so completely screwed things up that it's just flat out easier to not have to go through this and just pay through the nose and be done with the BS.

[FrankR]

Sadly, there is an awful lot of truth to what Capt. Sillypeoples said in his critique.

I've watched many seedlings of promising flight departments wither and die due to this unfocused, divisive, and poorly aimed commentary. Add in the pent up emotions of the players, and it's not surprising that many new flight departments have such screwy behaviors, actors, and aircraft.

FR

[biocybertronics]

Just to clear up a few things, the Facebook side and social media I personally hate with a passion, we sell to governments and typical until recently not in the private sector, so we did not need that crap though we are trying to branch into that hence some stupid facebook page etc, though I have no real interest in that.

I'm not really a fan of all this social media, but understand times are changing and in fact we have a employee starting in November who that is solely their job, to clean it up, get more followers etc, as at the moment it is just something on the side for when we get a free moment.

As for the office, we have to be registered in VA and have a location within 40 mins of certain government clients, hence leasing a small place for 12 months so we have the address there. It is nothing more than that for contractual obligations.

So although on paper it is technically the corporate headquarters in the US, it is by no means the main place of business.

And we have been trading for a lot longer than 2010 however we were told we could not sign certain US contracts as a foreign entity, and therefore although we been trading in the US since 2007 and overall since 2000 in Europe, we registered in the US in 2010 as a separate entity although technically overall they are one of the same.

The reason I came on the forum myself to ask questions is because, I was in hospital after surgery for 10 days and therefore had a bit of downtime, and not to mention was bored sitting in a hospital bed so thought I would do something semi proactive and research it.

I will admit I am totally naive when it comes to aviation other than turning up at the airport, and catching my flight, my business is primary counter-terrorism and identification of individuals in conflict zones.

We have a budget and a mission all be it I did not know the terminology was a mission until I came on the forum, which is mainly the transport of equipment that is very specialized and expensive.

Yes I was interested in a GulfStream II, as aforementioned I know nothing about planes other than I know it is a respected name and carries a certain level of kudos.

As many people have mentioned in this post you can get them for next to nothing, which attracted my attention as this a/c was going for $280,000 well below our budget but I thought wow, this could come in a lot cheaper.
But despite the Brooker selling the a/c telling me how great is, and they are using it still etc, I thought the price difference is to good to be true hence the original post.

I have since the original post spoke to Av Consultant who is local to myself, as well as NetJets, and will shortly have the correct information and pros and cons of both.

For the people who offered legitimate advice, thank you.

P.S As for the green stuff, It is something I believe in, however I am not driving 36 hours three or four times a month when I need to fly to Texas or Utah so needs must.

[Sillypeoples]

Bio - Just remember in the end, it's just a plane, and it goes where you want it to go. Be careful who you choose to work with. In this business either they want your money or they just want to fly your plane, so that skews intentions and who you can trust.

[biocybertronics]

Why is why I registered on here in the first place to try and get a better understanding.

The questions about the inspection, I have no clue how many people are required to do a pre-sale inspection and yes it may have seen very naive to other members on the forum, but as stated in my previous post, I have no knowledge of aviation other than visiting the air and space museum and catching a flight.

I know for a fact this would of come across to the Broker when I was inquiring about the plane, which is most likely why he was trying to sell it short.

And thinking about the logic of it in hindsight its a 1977 a/c I would never thinking of buying a car of that age unless it was a classic and use it only as a Sunday driver, not a business tool which I need to use regularly.

Just did not think of them in the same way until it was pointed out

[CEQforever]

Bio, just one more warning, be careful with Fractional ownership sales people, as once you've signed on the dotted line, it may well take away a lot of the BS of owning an aircraft outright, but you inevitably pay a lot for that benefit. Deciding together with an aviation consultant what your mission requirements are to find a suitable plane, will allow you to benefit from the fantastic buyers market that private aviation currently is.

Maybe let us know what the outcome of your project is in a couple months time.

[hawker750]

Bio
Go for it, do not listen to the doom merchants, they are probably sales people trying to sell you an expensive aircraft for a fat commission.
If you are wise you can have a great airplane for litttle money and low operating costs.
As all the experts say an old G2 or G3 is virtually worthless. so:
1/ Buy the best ship you can find with a new 72 month inspection and landing gear with at least 5 years on it and engines with 5 years at least to mid life. Cost? peanuts
2/ Employ a good experienced engineer (do not rely on organisations)
3/ Buy another aircraft for spare parts.Cost? less than peanuts.

You will have all the spare parts you want together with spare engines.
One of the biggest expenses with operating aircraft is the engine overhaul reserve. This way you do not have this expense.
For 5 years put gas in it, keep it serviceable with your mountain of spares and put a sticker on your bumper "At least my airplane is paid for"

Seriously do it and good luck. I may even join you and do the same

[cldrvr]

Nothing wrong with buying a clapped out GII, just budget for lots of fuel and money in spare parts and plan on throwing it away in a few years. As it is a buyers market, the higher value airframes depreciate, so run the numbers, as long as the extra cost in fuel and parts outweigh the depreciation and the smaller cost of operating a newer airframe, go for it.

Keep in mind, it will never be cheaper than flying business class and plan to be severely limited in Europe if you do want to take it over here due to noise. Plenty of US airports have noise restrictions too.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

still a great thread......

I hope Bio gets the aircraft that suits his needs...I hope we all hear the continuation of the story too.

glf

[Big Pistons Forever]

To anyone who is thinking about getting their own jet:

If you want a sanity check just look at charter per hour rates. The US charter market is so competitive there is very little profit in quoted rates so what you pay will be grosso modo what it will cost you to own and fly your own ride. Next look at at a years worth of travel and get some charter quotes on your typical trips and do the math. If the number doesn't frighten you then get a broker and start looking as it is a total buyers market.

byocybertronics:

If you want to do 450 hours a year in a large cabin jet then your travel budget will need to be at least $ 2,000,000 a year.......

[CL300]

450 hours at 2mio... multiply by two and you will have the proper number.

Place of registration, new regulations to come, loads of informations to phase in.
One thing for sur no G2, G3 and old airframe like this. Even for the next 5 years, RVSM is not the issue anymore, ADS-B, cpdlc, Rnp....just to name a few...these are the concern of retained value at 5 years.

I understand that the capital cost is somewhat a concern, and running costs can be taken as they come; but the value of a transatlantic/transcontinental jet is at a minimum of 8 millions, capital that you can reasonably recoup at 50% in 5 years; now you add the downtime costs due to maintenance with this type of utilisation, the turnover of the crews due to the usual stuff, etc. you are looking for a final cashflow over 5 years of 20 mio....for 2000 hours...Can you afford it ? The rest is litterature on my opinion, but i can equally give you a quote of only 10 mio for this period, if i do not count, catering, hotac, enroute taxes, sbs , etc..

Enjoy the corporate world, but like it was written earlier, from 0 to a large transatlantic aircraft, and NO inhouse experience, prepare the cash machine !