Gulfstream II
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Gulfstream II
Well times are good, and we have recently been in the position to purchase a corporate jet.
Something that when I founded the company I never dreamed of being able to do.
Now I have been in talks with a broker with a Gulfstream II for sale, now I admit I know very little about these planes other than the research I have carried out myself.
And have found out that they might be banned from operating in the US and Europe, first how true is this?
I admit the interior looks very dated and we have got a quote to have it all ripped out and rebuilt to our specs, and although the exterior paint was only done 3 years ago we are looking to have it repainted in company colors etc.
So as for that side we have it covered.
As for usage. We operate in a number of countries and travel throughout the US, as well as England predominantly.
Therefore we have been looking at a jet that has the range to do Washington D.C to Birmingham, England.
As well as many cities in the US, typically Washington to Salt Lake City.
We would hire our own pilots, though we are not sure about a flight attendant, (is this required by law) As it will be staff flying therefore they can get their own food and drinks if required.
So basically does anyone have experience with this plane, and trans Atlantic travel, and is the ban true?
Any other advice would be great.
Something that when I founded the company I never dreamed of being able to do.
Now I have been in talks with a broker with a Gulfstream II for sale, now I admit I know very little about these planes other than the research I have carried out myself.
And have found out that they might be banned from operating in the US and Europe, first how true is this?
I admit the interior looks very dated and we have got a quote to have it all ripped out and rebuilt to our specs, and although the exterior paint was only done 3 years ago we are looking to have it repainted in company colors etc.
So as for that side we have it covered.
As for usage. We operate in a number of countries and travel throughout the US, as well as England predominantly.
Therefore we have been looking at a jet that has the range to do Washington D.C to Birmingham, England.
As well as many cities in the US, typically Washington to Salt Lake City.
We would hire our own pilots, though we are not sure about a flight attendant, (is this required by law) As it will be staff flying therefore they can get their own food and drinks if required.
So basically does anyone have experience with this plane, and trans Atlantic travel, and is the ban true?
Any other advice would be great.
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May I respectfully suggest that you hire a reputable aviation consultant before committing any hard earned cash to what is now a very dated jet with considerable costs associated to them. They will save you a lot of money in the long term.
Noise is only one factor to be considered. The costs associated with running 2 x RR Spey engines can make the eyes water, let alone the wallet. Old aircraft become maintenance hogs. Another factor is whether your proposed G11 is RVSM compliant. If not expect to spend more money making it compliant for European and US airspace or spend heaps more in fuel burn by being kept low all the time.
Noise is only one factor to be considered. The costs associated with running 2 x RR Spey engines can make the eyes water, let alone the wallet. Old aircraft become maintenance hogs. Another factor is whether your proposed G11 is RVSM compliant. If not expect to spend more money making it compliant for European and US airspace or spend heaps more in fuel burn by being kept low all the time.
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Broker / consultant
With respect, a G4SP, G450, G550 will do the job, and not require ear plug inplants, or a fuel tanker escort.
This was a regular run for me, and G4SP was OK....
PM if more details required, but a good broker / consultant is recomended.
I do know one G450 just on the market..Interior is 'different' but good value.
glf
This was a regular run for me, and G4SP was OK....
PM if more details required, but a good broker / consultant is recomended.
I do know one G450 just on the market..Interior is 'different' but good value.
glf
Last edited by Gulfstreamaviator; 2nd Oct 2012 at 11:09. Reason: cos I can
Bio: Have to agree with Lovett and Capt. Morgan, the GII is now a museum piece.
Yes you can pick them up quite literally for free these days but .. they are one of the most expensive business jets in the world to operate and .. as has been mentioned, have a number of operating restrictions.
If capital outlay is an issue then perhaps consider one of the NetJets programmes.
Yes you can pick them up quite literally for free these days but .. they are one of the most expensive business jets in the world to operate and .. as has been mentioned, have a number of operating restrictions.
If capital outlay is an issue then perhaps consider one of the NetJets programmes.
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PLovett, I checked with them and it is already RVSM compliant, which I am guessing is a big plus.
Its not so much the intinal outlay just the ability because of the cost to customlise in inside and outside due to the saving.
I realsie the cost will be quite high, but as we are doing around 450 hours a year flying for at least 4 people at time, I am sure the costs will come in line with what we are spending on Business class alone.
Its not so much the intinal outlay just the ability because of the cost to customlise in inside and outside due to the saving.
I realsie the cost will be quite high, but as we are doing around 450 hours a year flying for at least 4 people at time, I am sure the costs will come in line with what we are spending on Business class alone.
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I have also been told there are hush kits, is this true and do they make a difference?
I might shelf the idea for several years until we can afford the outlay for a more modern jet.
I might shelf the idea for several years until we can afford the outlay for a more modern jet.
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RVSM is a plus and yes, you can get hush kits, but, and it is a big BUT, operational and maintenance costs on a G11 are still going to be very high and I suggest, higher than what you currently spend on travel. In addition I believe Europe is to introduce still more severe noise restrictions that may well exclude even a hush-kitted aeroplane.
There are better options available, especially now with business confidence depressed with a lot of corporate aircraft on the market. Please seek out a reputable consultant and you will end up both with an aircraft more suitable to your needs that will not forever be requiring maintenance.
A number of people who have posted on this thread have a far more intimate knowledge of operating corporate jets than I so please read carefully what they have posted. The G11 was a great aircraft in its day but that day has passed. There are better options.
There are better options available, especially now with business confidence depressed with a lot of corporate aircraft on the market. Please seek out a reputable consultant and you will end up both with an aircraft more suitable to your needs that will not forever be requiring maintenance.
A number of people who have posted on this thread have a far more intimate knowledge of operating corporate jets than I so please read carefully what they have posted. The G11 was a great aircraft in its day but that day has passed. There are better options.
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I started to look at Gulfstream-G550-GV and Bombardier-Global-5000 on a NetJets account although I still like the idea of owning one outright, at least I share the costs this way.
I will make a decision after speaking to some experts about costing’s etc, but thank you for all your input. It has helped so much.
I will make a decision after speaking to some experts about costing’s etc, but thank you for all your input. It has helped so much.
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Another stupid question and I never really thought about it until the other half brought it up,
We have a few dogs and always leave them at home when traveling although the hotels we stay in always accept pets.
Now I do not really mind this as its good to get a break, but she is dog mad and will not let them fly commerical which I agree with as I do not like the idea of them being caged up in the hold, but on a business jet can you have them in the cabin with you legally?
We have a few dogs and always leave them at home when traveling although the hotels we stay in always accept pets.
Now I do not really mind this as its good to get a break, but she is dog mad and will not let them fly commerical which I agree with as I do not like the idea of them being caged up in the hold, but on a business jet can you have them in the cabin with you legally?
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Think about a GV, can pick one up a descent one for less than 20 million. You get 550 range for a fraction of the price. Good time to be buying any second hand jets it's a buyers market.
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If you buy a GII, I would budget on never getting the money back if you needed to sell it.
Go scheduled for the long haul stuff and buy a sensible, proven aircraft for jumping around Europe. See how ownership works before committing. Midsize jets which give you a good cabin and low operating costs with the versatility of being able to turn up pretty much anywhere (try doing that in a GII in Europe) rather than the nearest place that isn't noise sensitive. Excels and Hawkers can be had for (comparitavely) no money at the minute, will always be sell-able if looked after and it'll be a LOT easier to find a crew - are there even any G-II sims left?
Go scheduled for the long haul stuff and buy a sensible, proven aircraft for jumping around Europe. See how ownership works before committing. Midsize jets which give you a good cabin and low operating costs with the versatility of being able to turn up pretty much anywhere (try doing that in a GII in Europe) rather than the nearest place that isn't noise sensitive. Excels and Hawkers can be had for (comparitavely) no money at the minute, will always be sell-able if looked after and it'll be a LOT easier to find a crew - are there even any G-II sims left?
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The jumping will be more in the US, and US scheduled flights I must admit drive me insane with connections.
I guess I was spoilt in Europe with Heathrow, Manchester or Birmingham all being within 3 hours drive and could pretty much get me anywhere I needed to go direct.
As for reasons why we are looking at such an option, 12 of us fly on a regular basis. Often 4-8 at a time to the same location, and in some cases like last week Washington to Dallas with 5 hours’ notice so the price was through the roof, but it was for a large client.
As we have to take tools of our trade, our devices, computer equipment at times, it is a hassle checking this, as we work in anti/counter terrorism some of this equipment is very specialized and takes forever to explain to a TSA employee, as well as fines for going over the baggage allowance.
In fact 3 weeks ago, we were unable to load some important equipment on the plane as it was too heavy and I guess the flight was at the limit, so an employee had to no longer catch the flight (having paid for the ticket) and drive down as we needed it the following morning (a 16 hour drive.)
Not talking huge weights just more than allowed.
Flying to Europe would be four to five times a year minimum, myself personally did 10 trips last year and 6 of these 7 other people came with me, and business class tickets soon mount up.
As for resale value, in the scheme of things I know I am paying nothing for the jet in the first place so I understand the resale will be nothing.
As mentioned we are looking at netjets for a fractional ownership account, but the kudos to the company owning our own plane outright I think counts for a lot.
With the breaking of ground on our first factory being manufacturing in-house and no longer outsourcing in November, being located in the Midwest and our head office in near enough D.C the increase of flights over the next few years will be massive.
We saw the Gulfstream II as a stop gap for 4-5 years as the business grows and we get over the costs of building a 56,000ft factory then upgrading to a more modern jet, and writing the cost off tax wise over the five years.
So there is an urgent business need to find a suitable form of transport and soon, however we have reached out to a few consultants today as well as netjets, and the advice on here has stopped us from making the purchase because it seemed like a great deal at the time.
I guess I was spoilt in Europe with Heathrow, Manchester or Birmingham all being within 3 hours drive and could pretty much get me anywhere I needed to go direct.
As for reasons why we are looking at such an option, 12 of us fly on a regular basis. Often 4-8 at a time to the same location, and in some cases like last week Washington to Dallas with 5 hours’ notice so the price was through the roof, but it was for a large client.
As we have to take tools of our trade, our devices, computer equipment at times, it is a hassle checking this, as we work in anti/counter terrorism some of this equipment is very specialized and takes forever to explain to a TSA employee, as well as fines for going over the baggage allowance.
In fact 3 weeks ago, we were unable to load some important equipment on the plane as it was too heavy and I guess the flight was at the limit, so an employee had to no longer catch the flight (having paid for the ticket) and drive down as we needed it the following morning (a 16 hour drive.)
Not talking huge weights just more than allowed.
Flying to Europe would be four to five times a year minimum, myself personally did 10 trips last year and 6 of these 7 other people came with me, and business class tickets soon mount up.
As for resale value, in the scheme of things I know I am paying nothing for the jet in the first place so I understand the resale will be nothing.
As mentioned we are looking at netjets for a fractional ownership account, but the kudos to the company owning our own plane outright I think counts for a lot.
With the breaking of ground on our first factory being manufacturing in-house and no longer outsourcing in November, being located in the Midwest and our head office in near enough D.C the increase of flights over the next few years will be massive.
We saw the Gulfstream II as a stop gap for 4-5 years as the business grows and we get over the costs of building a 56,000ft factory then upgrading to a more modern jet, and writing the cost off tax wise over the five years.
So there is an urgent business need to find a suitable form of transport and soon, however we have reached out to a few consultants today as well as netjets, and the advice on here has stopped us from making the purchase because it seemed like a great deal at the time.
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I look back upon my years in the GII and GIII fleet fondly. It was the most fun I ever had flying...
But do not even think about buying one!!! In my last GIII position, we spent on average $80,000 USD per month to keep it in the air. Yup, 80k a month!
You'll spend less buying a 7 million dollar GIV than a 1 million dollar GIII
FR
But do not even think about buying one!!! In my last GIII position, we spent on average $80,000 USD per month to keep it in the air. Yup, 80k a month!
You'll spend less buying a 7 million dollar GIV than a 1 million dollar GIII
FR
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Challenger 604
just to keep the type battle running Galaxy Flyer especially..... I agree the 604 would do the job just as well, and having read the recent posts, totally agree.
I have over 2500 on both types, and loved the 601 and then the 604..... but passengers seem to prefer the G450/G550......
For the mission as detailed, either type would work.
A very interesting thread, with real input and help being offered.
G4phil, Where is your 550 located, (Coventry.?????).
FrankR, Running costs on a G2 G3, are sky high, but as you said great fun to fly, real aeroplanes.
Re the OP, comments about heavy and delicate kit, there is no substitute for an Executive jet.
Glf
I have over 2500 on both types, and loved the 601 and then the 604..... but passengers seem to prefer the G450/G550......
For the mission as detailed, either type would work.
A very interesting thread, with real input and help being offered.
G4phil, Where is your 550 located, (Coventry.?????).
FrankR, Running costs on a G2 G3, are sky high, but as you said great fun to fly, real aeroplanes.
Re the OP, comments about heavy and delicate kit, there is no substitute for an Executive jet.
Glf