Italians new tax..... SNAFU
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Originally Posted by Dg800
No way, the way the law is written now if you stay longer than 48h you pay for the whole year. There is currently no provision in the law for a prorated payment for aircraft as is instead the case for boats, that do get to pay a daily "docking fee" instead of an annual tax.
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In Italy everything is ten times more difficult and complicated. We are use to it. We have devoloped a thick skin. And we have learnt how to survive and carry on flying. Any other pilot in the world coming to live in Italy would not last 3 months
And then, using the hot needle they wanna tax what is not theirs to tax (foreign airplane)
In Italy everything is ten times more difficult and complicated. We are use to it. We have devoloped a thick skin. And we have learnt how to survive and carry on flying.
Actually it really could be worse. Not a lot though.
Question: I have asked it before: is the law already past all hurdles and in place or not? If not, is it written to be effective 'backwards' towards the 1st of January?
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True - but the law does mention an "annual" tax, and the actual implementation has to be defined by the "Dirrettore dell'Agenzia delle entrate" so it is quite possible there will be a provision for partial payments such as there is for boats. I mean what if you buy your (Italian-based) airplane in December, you're certainly not going to pay for the whole year?
If you buy a plane and register it in Italy, then there is a provision in the law for a prorated payment for the first year of ownership. As I said previously, the whole "this applies to foreign registered planes" thing was added on rather hastily and definitely not well thought out. My personal opinion of what will happen is: absolutely nothing. As nobody is currently tasked with actually levying the tax for foreign registered planes, nobody will and that'll be that.
So, in the end not a cent will likely be paid but some people will be scared off (possibly permanently) from flying to Italy on holiday and this will certainly benefit neither the local nor the national economy.
Ciao,
Dg800
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dirk85, looks like you - deliberately? - left an important para out of your post:
So, after 48 hours this madness affects EVERY a/c. 
PS: ref page 40 of the original text
14-bis. Limposta di cui al comma 11 č applicata anche agli aeromobili non immatricolati nel registro aeronautico nazionale la cui sosta nel territorio italiano si protrae oltre quarantotto ore.
PS: ref page 40 of the original text
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How do you enforce it? Clamp the front wheel?
If I get a bill in the mail from a foreign entity, it's virtually impossible to get payment for it in another country unless they pay willingly.
If I get a bill in the mail from a foreign entity, it's virtually impossible to get payment for it in another country unless they pay willingly.
Adam,
Exactly that. Pay or the aircraft is impounded until you pay. How else? Easiest system in the world. Worked for Dick Turpin, so why not for the Italians?
Guys this is very significant.
Regarding how many European states are cash starved and anti GA, we need to fight this with a very concentrated and effective effort. This is no time for "us" and "them" such as AOC against private aviation e.t.c. If GA does not join forces in this thing, it is a question of time until other cash starved countries will go the same evil ways and exthort money from each of us.
The whole thing is completely unacceptable in this day and age, highway robbers have had their days and most of them were brought to justice too.
How do you enforce it? Clamp the front wheel?
Guys this is very significant.
Regarding how many European states are cash starved and anti GA, we need to fight this with a very concentrated and effective effort. This is no time for "us" and "them" such as AOC against private aviation e.t.c. If GA does not join forces in this thing, it is a question of time until other cash starved countries will go the same evil ways and exthort money from each of us.
The whole thing is completely unacceptable in this day and age, highway robbers have had their days and most of them were brought to justice too.
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well...this regulation has been made for italian owners...that use their aircraft privately......this is the matter of fact:
private owner of airplane bigger than 5 tons are moving their machines in companies with aoc.....and who is going to pay are only small piston owners....(but many of those are selling or moving their aircrafts in rent-a plane companies)
for aircraft registered in foreign states but owned by italians is 99% sure that tax office will do a x-check and so those will be pay for their arcrafts.....
second: as you can read.....is a tax made for aircraft owners...(italian) if you r not..they will not make you a tax for a possession...(cause you are not italian citizen) you allready pay a tax called landing fees where part of the money are due to governement taxes.
then....is sooo funny that when we talk about money we are the fatty piggy italians titsuckers...
but it seems that the alldays cappucino's drinker loves the weather of our country.....
and second if my long memory dont fail with greece downturn..italy gaves enough money to save it (not so less than germany).....so dont spit on that...even because for germans italy is one of the most important markets..(see only how many german cars are here...)those problems can happens to everyone...dont be silly saying that if tomorrow can happens to you....you may be in the needs of the piggys southern european....
private owner of airplane bigger than 5 tons are moving their machines in companies with aoc.....and who is going to pay are only small piston owners....(but many of those are selling or moving their aircrafts in rent-a plane companies)
for aircraft registered in foreign states but owned by italians is 99% sure that tax office will do a x-check and so those will be pay for their arcrafts.....
second: as you can read.....is a tax made for aircraft owners...(italian) if you r not..they will not make you a tax for a possession...(cause you are not italian citizen) you allready pay a tax called landing fees where part of the money are due to governement taxes.
then....is sooo funny that when we talk about money we are the fatty piggy italians titsuckers...
but it seems that the alldays cappucino's drinker loves the weather of our country.....
and second if my long memory dont fail with greece downturn..italy gaves enough money to save it (not so less than germany).....so dont spit on that...even because for germans italy is one of the most important markets..(see only how many german cars are here...)those problems can happens to everyone...dont be silly saying that if tomorrow can happens to you....you may be in the needs of the piggys southern european....
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second: as you can read.....is a tax made for aircraft owners...(italian) if you r not..they will not make you a tax for a possession...(cause you are not italian citizen) you allready pay a tax called landing fees where part of the money are due to governement taxes.
Unless the law is amended soon this will make all aircraft that meet this simple criteria liable, no matter how many people assume differently. How they'll get owners to pay up is another matter entirely.
Cheers,
Dg800
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Dondino, would you be so kind as to translate the following:
14-bis. L'imposta di cui al comma 11 e' applicata agli aeromobili non immatricolati nel registro aeronautico nazionale la cui sosta nel territorio italiano si protrae oltre quarantotto ore
Google Translate gives it as follows:
14-bis. The tax referred to in paragraph 11 and 'applied to aircraft not registered in the national aircraft register which stop in the Italian territory extends beyond forty-eight hours
Mutt
14-bis. L'imposta di cui al comma 11 e' applicata agli aeromobili non immatricolati nel registro aeronautico nazionale la cui sosta nel territorio italiano si protrae oltre quarantotto ore
Google Translate gives it as follows:
14-bis. The tax referred to in paragraph 11 and 'applied to aircraft not registered in the national aircraft register which stop in the Italian territory extends beyond forty-eight hours
Mutt
It looks like the authorities are starting to crack down on anything luxurious if the 30th of December action is anything to go by 
Italian ski resort lays bare tax evasion - Telegraph
Italian ski resort lays bare tax evasion - Telegraph
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aviation tourism is mostly done in chartered flying club or flying school aeroplanes.
Italy is already the most unfriendly (in general) to GA visitors in Europe. I've been there a number of times and in most cases it was a big hassle. Avgas availability in particular is difficult to establish reliably, and they will deny a landing clearance if they decide they didn't get your faxes for PNR Customs.
I wonder what will happen if you go AOG and have to sit there for weeks.
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What I don't get, is if you have paid EU VAT on your aircraft how they can go an add a extra tax.
The Italians are shooting themselves in the foot. What if the owner of a ship company wants to build a vessel there but you penalize him for this when he comes to sign the papers in his private aircraft.
Stupido!!!!!!!!!!
Rome was not built in a day, but your showing how to destoy it in a year.......
The Italians are shooting themselves in the foot. What if the owner of a ship company wants to build a vessel there but you penalize him for this when he comes to sign the papers in his private aircraft.
Stupido!!!!!!!!!!
Rome was not built in a day, but your showing how to destoy it in a year.......
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There are annual taxes on a quite a few things, just think cars. But no European State would tax another countries citizens car, if its used in line with law. (for a visit and not prolonged stay etc)
@springhealedjack: thanks for the article. Quite as I expected it to be...
@springhealedjack: thanks for the article. Quite as I expected it to be...