Italians new tax..... SNAFU
Peter,
If you remember the structures in the old Soviet Block, the only "General Aviation" they had were the aeroclubs. Of course, you were never allowed to fly internationally nor too far away from your home strip. There were NO private planes then.
It looks as if Italy is heading in this direction. Whether it is intentional (or they simply screwed up in an unsavory money-rising effort) or not is not the point, but if they willingly reduce GA to aeroclubs and AOC holders, they do de facto declare people who are obscenely rich enough to own a PA28 an enemy of the state. Also a term not unknown.
Frankly, if one can do otherwise, countries like that are best avoided. But not only for GA, for all business. It will their only way to realize that if they keep everyone out and tax whoever is in to bancruptcy, they will be financially much worse off than they are now.
I don't. It's perfectly clear. Before you depart, you'll have to pay the taxes. That is why I have decided to ban overflight and landing in Italy with immediate effect and until further notice for my aircraft.
What I'd like to know is if they are also considering to do the same for other means of travel, such as cars. Somehow, I hope so, because if so, the outcry will be a lot larger if thousands of holiday makers get taken refugee at the border points when they try to leave the country.
Very little international flight is done in flying school planes - due to minimum billing structures making long trips uneconomical.
It looks as if Italy is heading in this direction. Whether it is intentional (or they simply screwed up in an unsavory money-rising effort) or not is not the point, but if they willingly reduce GA to aeroclubs and AOC holders, they do de facto declare people who are obscenely rich enough to own a PA28 an enemy of the state. Also a term not unknown.
Italy is already the most unfriendly (in general) to GA visitors in Europe. I've been there a number of times and in most cases it was a big hassle. Avgas availability in particular is difficult to establish reliably, and they will deny a landing clearance if they decide they didn't get your faxes for PNR Customs.
I wonder what will happen if you go AOG and have to sit there for weeks.
What I'd like to know is if they are also considering to do the same for other means of travel, such as cars. Somehow, I hope so, because if so, the outcry will be a lot larger if thousands of holiday makers get taken refugee at the border points when they try to leave the country.
just read through the article provided by SpringHeeledJack.
This does indeed explain a lot. Not that it is surprising, mind.
So practically, what the Italian government does now is to place every living being on this planet, Italian or not, under the general suspicion of being a tax evader and therefore implements measures to deal with that.
Within Italy, as the article shows, this may have merit.
However to take foreign aircraft (or car or yacht or whatever) owners de facto hostages is something that does not go at all.
So what needs to be made clear to the Italian government by the EU as well as the international organisations is that while they may investigate their own citizens and residents within their jurisdiction as they deem fit, but albeit within reckognized judical practice (innocent until proven guilty), they have no place altogether to impose these rules on aircraft on normal ICAO international flights, even if they do have a prolonged stay on Italian soil.
The question of whom to tax and whom not will revolve rather about the ownership of the said item and the residence of the owner. As I understand it, a residence permit is required in EU practice if anyone stays in a country other than his own for more than 3 months? So if they went that way, 3 months, plus exemptions for tech cases e.t.c, they'd have a case of sorts.
48 hours however is totally ridiculous and arbitrary. Plus, I do wonder what will actually happen once the first biz jet with VIP's on board gets actively blocked from departure unless a randsom of several hunderd thousand are paid? latest then, I reckon that some powers that are will wake up and take action, such as blocking Italian assets until their citizens with their property are freed without pre-condition.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
This does indeed explain a lot. Not that it is surprising, mind.
So practically, what the Italian government does now is to place every living being on this planet, Italian or not, under the general suspicion of being a tax evader and therefore implements measures to deal with that.
Within Italy, as the article shows, this may have merit.
However to take foreign aircraft (or car or yacht or whatever) owners de facto hostages is something that does not go at all.
So what needs to be made clear to the Italian government by the EU as well as the international organisations is that while they may investigate their own citizens and residents within their jurisdiction as they deem fit, but albeit within reckognized judical practice (innocent until proven guilty), they have no place altogether to impose these rules on aircraft on normal ICAO international flights, even if they do have a prolonged stay on Italian soil.
The question of whom to tax and whom not will revolve rather about the ownership of the said item and the residence of the owner. As I understand it, a residence permit is required in EU practice if anyone stays in a country other than his own for more than 3 months? So if they went that way, 3 months, plus exemptions for tech cases e.t.c, they'd have a case of sorts.
48 hours however is totally ridiculous and arbitrary. Plus, I do wonder what will actually happen once the first biz jet with VIP's on board gets actively blocked from departure unless a randsom of several hunderd thousand are paid? latest then, I reckon that some powers that are will wake up and take action, such as blocking Italian assets until their citizens with their property are freed without pre-condition.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
That is all very well and understandable, but the way General Aviation, in particular drive by randsom for foreign planes who actually wish to spend some money in this country, are targeted here is simply unacceptable.
I reckon that we'll simply need to sit it out until the tax police have had their go and then see what's left there. Frankly, the crackdowns, while expected and also understandable, will in all likelyhood end up in a flood of bancruptcies once all the due taxes are demanded to be paid at once. By the looks of these articles here, one might wonder if there will be any operating hotels or other tourism infrastructure once they are finished.
Make no mistake, those who avoid taxes in such a balant manner (such as giving their income below the poverty line but are millionaires) do deserve no better, yet Italy has little to gain if they simply close down all the infrastructure owned by these people. And they have a lot to loose by hacking off those who have financed their tourism for years.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
I reckon that we'll simply need to sit it out until the tax police have had their go and then see what's left there. Frankly, the crackdowns, while expected and also understandable, will in all likelyhood end up in a flood of bancruptcies once all the due taxes are demanded to be paid at once. By the looks of these articles here, one might wonder if there will be any operating hotels or other tourism infrastructure once they are finished.
Make no mistake, those who avoid taxes in such a balant manner (such as giving their income below the poverty line but are millionaires) do deserve no better, yet Italy has little to gain if they simply close down all the infrastructure owned by these people. And they have a lot to loose by hacking off those who have financed their tourism for years.
Best regards
AN2 Driver
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Just was called by the Italian Embassy in Germany which I wrote an email to regarding the Tax and that is unfair and contra productive for Italy and Italys revenue since people will stay away and explained the possibilities one could encounter to delay flight and thus become liable to the tax.
The Gentleman was very understanding and assured me that the Ambassador will write a letter to the appropriate Ministry in Roma asking to think the thing over, adding the possibility of a sudden strike to the possible reasons of a delay.....
I have no idea if anything will happen, but I can only encourage all concerned to do the same. Doesn΄t take much time and is more or less for free...
The Gentleman was very understanding and assured me that the Ambassador will write a letter to the appropriate Ministry in Roma asking to think the thing over, adding the possibility of a sudden strike to the possible reasons of a delay.....
I have no idea if anything will happen, but I can only encourage all concerned to do the same. Doesn΄t take much time and is more or less for free...
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Yet another example of that filthy EU imposed regime on the poor Italians. I realise that things need to be turned around but this unimaginative and lazy option to simply tax the rich is going to come around and bite them.
How about addressing Labour laws and imposition of more efficient public spending, oh wait I got it..... get out of the EU, reimpose the Lira, then devalue (yes I know pain but it has to happen at somepoint) and then with lesson learnt begin growth and future prosperity.
Once you remove the EU it's not very hard.
How about addressing Labour laws and imposition of more efficient public spending, oh wait I got it..... get out of the EU, reimpose the Lira, then devalue (yes I know pain but it has to happen at somepoint) and then with lesson learnt begin growth and future prosperity.
Once you remove the EU it's not very hard.
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Not really an EU fanboy but...
So the EU has taught the poor Italians - or rather the rich ones - how to evade tax, whilst naturally wanting to live in an environment that is first and not third world?
Me don΄t think so.
This mess (and look at the UK, Germany , France - we are not far from Italians state) has not a single reason, yet the most contributing factor IMHO is the fact that big coorperations have far too much of influence and power. No big company pays really their share in taxes in whatever country.
the same is true for rich persons.
Whilst most northern countries have at least the ordinary man in an position where he cant evade taxes, that seems to be different in some southern countries as well. If you add all of that together, then the s.h.i.t.e hits the fan big time.
The EU is inherently wrong as long as we don't unite at least labor, financial and social laws.
And its in its current form to big to work, too many too different countries can΄t really work together...
et another example of that filthy EU imposed regime on the poor Italians.
Me don΄t think so.
This mess (and look at the UK, Germany , France - we are not far from Italians state) has not a single reason, yet the most contributing factor IMHO is the fact that big coorperations have far too much of influence and power. No big company pays really their share in taxes in whatever country.
the same is true for rich persons.
Whilst most northern countries have at least the ordinary man in an position where he cant evade taxes, that seems to be different in some southern countries as well. If you add all of that together, then the s.h.i.t.e hits the fan big time.
The EU is inherently wrong as long as we don't unite at least labor, financial and social laws.
And its in its current form to big to work, too many too different countries can΄t really work together...
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Copied from a similar thread on the private flying forum.
They could try...
peterh337
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Wheel clamping?
I understand from a German pilot friend that the German magazine "pilot und flugzeug" has published an article saying the Italians will be "clamping" aircraft after the 48hr point, to prevent them flying away.
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Wheel clamping?
I understand from a German pilot friend that the German magazine "pilot und flugzeug" has published an article saying the Italians will be "clamping" aircraft after the 48hr point, to prevent them flying away.
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Hi guys,
I was reading with interest all your posts about this new luxury tax applied (or to be applied) by the italian government to all the GA aircrafts without an AOC.
This tax apparently is still "flying" in a foggy environment. The details are not really clear and for sure we all look to the final decision.
Somebody knows if it is confirmed the date of February 4th for a final and clear solution of this enigma?
If this tax will be confirmed, I think that airports like LIML will be heavily affected...
A good solution? Fly to Lugano (Switzerland). Only 45 minutes away by car from Milan with a perfect Handling Service and very quick customs operations.
Cheers
I was reading with interest all your posts about this new luxury tax applied (or to be applied) by the italian government to all the GA aircrafts without an AOC.
This tax apparently is still "flying" in a foggy environment. The details are not really clear and for sure we all look to the final decision.
Somebody knows if it is confirmed the date of February 4th for a final and clear solution of this enigma?
If this tax will be confirmed, I think that airports like LIML will be heavily affected...
A good solution? Fly to Lugano (Switzerland). Only 45 minutes away by car from Milan with a perfect Handling Service and very quick customs operations.
Cheers
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That is a good suggestion. It is too bad that there is not more parking space. The grass won't work for most aircraft except for light singles/twins.
Beautiful city and area.
Beautiful city and area.
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The owner of the Citation I fly wants to go to Sicily for a week early April.
What will he have to pay if this Tax goes forward? He is there for a week.
May have to suggest Corsica or Malta as I cannot see him stomaching any large costs partially on principal.
Pace
What will he have to pay if this Tax goes forward? He is there for a week.
May have to suggest Corsica or Malta as I cannot see him stomaching any large costs partially on principal.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 29th Jan 2012 at 07:49.
well, tell him what's up Pace and let him decide if he wants to go the Sicily or spend his hard earned cash elsewhere. Korsika or Malta for instance.
The Italians will only get the message if those who do not have to live there won't go. Stay away. Once half their upper class tourism industry is bancrupt and import/export deals won't work because the foreign clients will not set a foot into italy, that will theach their next government how to behave.
Roadside robberies are a thing of the past, that needs to be clearly communicated in words and action.
The Italians will only get the message if those who do not have to live there won't go. Stay away. Once half their upper class tourism industry is bancrupt and import/export deals won't work because the foreign clients will not set a foot into italy, that will theach their next government how to behave.
Roadside robberies are a thing of the past, that needs to be clearly communicated in words and action.
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That is a good suggestion. It is too bad that there is not more parking space. The grass won't work for most aircraft except for light singles/twins.
Beautiful city and area.
Beautiful city and area.
Lugano is not too small and Gulfstream's and Global Express can be handled without problems. Business jets activity is growing fast in LSZA with all related services.
It is really a nice location and is for sure an attractive alternative to the airports of the region of Milan (LIN, MXP), especially now with the luxury tax!
Greetings
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Lugano is indeed lovely but the heavy iron that does go in there won't be going very far on 1300 metres with the required gradients to get out.
That's assuming they can get in and stopped on a 1300m strip following a steep approach and it's fairly steep when circling
That's assuming they can get in and stopped on a 1300m strip following a steep approach and it's fairly steep when circling
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No news yet on how this law will be implemented. A couple of weeks and we will all know. No need to panic until that moment, as it cannot be enforced before every detail is published...
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Update
Italy Private Aircraft Tax - update
Jan 30: Just before Christmas, Italy published plans to tax all visiting Private aircraft that stayed longer than 48 hours. The figures were astonishingly high - for a private Gulfstream G-IV the annual tax would be about $320,000 USD. Don't panic yet. The law is still not in effect, this cannot happen before March 1st - but even at that point, there will be a significant amount of judicial challenges that will likely delay it for a long time, or better still, reject it altogether. Stay tuned.
Jan 30: Just before Christmas, Italy published plans to tax all visiting Private aircraft that stayed longer than 48 hours. The figures were astonishingly high - for a private Gulfstream G-IV the annual tax would be about $320,000 USD. Don't panic yet. The law is still not in effect, this cannot happen before March 1st - but even at that point, there will be a significant amount of judicial challenges that will likely delay it for a long time, or better still, reject it altogether. Stay tuned.
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This maybe of interest?
New tax may kill Italian GA
Italy is rethinking its new general aviation tax on foreign-registered
aircraft as it becomes clear it will raise far less money than
expected and will damage the economy in ways that were not taken into
account. This is a good time to reinforce Italy's doubts by writing to
your local Italian Embassy pointing out the problems you have with the
tax.
The annual tax on private aircraft is part of Italy's response to its
economic crisis and supposedly hits only the rich. Unfortunately it
applies to all private aircraft that stay in Italy for 48 hours or
more, which makes it risky even to transit Italy; a technical problem,
bad weather, or an ATC strike could saddle a pilot with a bill for
thousands of euros. AOPA Italy members are preparing to shoulder a
share of the burden of digging the country out from under the mountain
of debt run up by the government, but IAOPA-Europe is opposed to the
extension of the tax to non-Italian registrations.
The international response has been partly responsible for the
decision to take a second look at the tax. The 'official' calculation
says the government will make 85 million from it, but AOPA Italy has
calculated the tax on the basis of the number of eligible aircraft and
helicopters based in the country at 3,520,000, plus whatever can be
raised from foreign-registered aircraft. Set against that the certain
loss of tourism income and the picture looks very worrying. Some 10
percent of private Italian aircraft have de-registered since the tax
was announced, and the requirement to pay a further 3,000 a year to
keep an aircraft will drive more people out of GA.
AOPA Italy is seeking a change to make foreign aircraft pay the tax
only after they have spent 90 days or more in Italy, and to have
foreign aero club aircraft exempted. Domestically, they want more
information on the exact tax levels for instance, its not known
whether a Piper PA28 with an MTOW of 1,247kg pays the 1.5 per kg tax
for the first 1,000 kg plus 2.5 for the remaining 247 kg (2,117.50)
or whether it pays the 2.5 per kg set for aircraft between 1,000 and
2,000 kg on the whole MTOW (3,117.50). Are historical aircraft and
microlights included? Much remains to be settled.
For Italian GA, the future looks bleak. Would you be able to continue
flying if you were suddenly faced with an additional bill of more than
3,000 a year, even before you'd flown a single hour? As non-Italian
pilot, you can help yourself by writing to your local Italian Embassy
expressing your reluctance to visit Italy under the circumstances, and
pointing out the loss of tourist revenue your absence represents. To
find the address of the Italian Embassy in your country,
Italy is rethinking its new general aviation tax on foreign-registered
aircraft as it becomes clear it will raise far less money than
expected and will damage the economy in ways that were not taken into
account. This is a good time to reinforce Italy's doubts by writing to
your local Italian Embassy pointing out the problems you have with the
tax.
The annual tax on private aircraft is part of Italy's response to its
economic crisis and supposedly hits only the rich. Unfortunately it
applies to all private aircraft that stay in Italy for 48 hours or
more, which makes it risky even to transit Italy; a technical problem,
bad weather, or an ATC strike could saddle a pilot with a bill for
thousands of euros. AOPA Italy members are preparing to shoulder a
share of the burden of digging the country out from under the mountain
of debt run up by the government, but IAOPA-Europe is opposed to the
extension of the tax to non-Italian registrations.
The international response has been partly responsible for the
decision to take a second look at the tax. The 'official' calculation
says the government will make 85 million from it, but AOPA Italy has
calculated the tax on the basis of the number of eligible aircraft and
helicopters based in the country at 3,520,000, plus whatever can be
raised from foreign-registered aircraft. Set against that the certain
loss of tourism income and the picture looks very worrying. Some 10
percent of private Italian aircraft have de-registered since the tax
was announced, and the requirement to pay a further 3,000 a year to
keep an aircraft will drive more people out of GA.
AOPA Italy is seeking a change to make foreign aircraft pay the tax
only after they have spent 90 days or more in Italy, and to have
foreign aero club aircraft exempted. Domestically, they want more
information on the exact tax levels for instance, its not known
whether a Piper PA28 with an MTOW of 1,247kg pays the 1.5 per kg tax
for the first 1,000 kg plus 2.5 for the remaining 247 kg (2,117.50)
or whether it pays the 2.5 per kg set for aircraft between 1,000 and
2,000 kg on the whole MTOW (3,117.50). Are historical aircraft and
microlights included? Much remains to be settled.
For Italian GA, the future looks bleak. Would you be able to continue
flying if you were suddenly faced with an additional bill of more than
3,000 a year, even before you'd flown a single hour? As non-Italian
pilot, you can help yourself by writing to your local Italian Embassy
expressing your reluctance to visit Italy under the circumstances, and
pointing out the loss of tourist revenue your absence represents. To
find the address of the Italian Embassy in your country,
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Irrespective of your views on whether Italy can, or should, raise tax in that way, there is a fundamental issue of fairness here, which is screwing an aircraft which cannot fly because
- it has broken down
- it is being worked on
- it is waiting for parts
- the owner got run over by a bus and is dead / recovering / etc
- the pilot got into bad wx, landed, and is unable to leave due to continued bax wx
- the pilot stopped for just 1 day but cannot leave Italy due to bad wx (which let's face it could happen to any aircraft, even a bizjet)
- as above but cannot depart due to airport closed (due to equipment, crash, etc - imagine a case where 20 visitors are parked there and somebody wrecks the runway, and after 48 hrs the Italian tax collector will go round and collect 5 or 6 figures from the parked visitors
)
- etc
- etc
A country with the slightest pretence of civil liberties and not run by totally idiotic up-yours conmen has to make a provision for the above factors, with a framework of exemptions which need to be authorised by somebody with a specified authority.
In the case of an EASA reg type the authority would need to be tied into Part M, but in the case of a foreign reg one it would need to be signed off by an appropriate authority e.g. an A&P/IA for an N-reg. This would be horribly complicated.
I am no lawyer but would be amazed if trapping such people would stand up if some rich victim decided to properly exhaust the legal options (ECJ for example).
France and the UK abandoned long term parking controls like that in 2004/2005, probably for these reasons as much as the controversy. One can understand Italy not giving a t055 about what anybody thinks, but if people can sue for compensation then it is all a bit pointless...
Until this is resolved, I will not even enter Italian airspace, which for me, with a 1300nm range, is not a significant hardship
- it has broken down
- it is being worked on
- it is waiting for parts
- the owner got run over by a bus and is dead / recovering / etc
- the pilot got into bad wx, landed, and is unable to leave due to continued bax wx
- the pilot stopped for just 1 day but cannot leave Italy due to bad wx (which let's face it could happen to any aircraft, even a bizjet)
- as above but cannot depart due to airport closed (due to equipment, crash, etc - imagine a case where 20 visitors are parked there and somebody wrecks the runway, and after 48 hrs the Italian tax collector will go round and collect 5 or 6 figures from the parked visitors
)- etc
- etc
A country with the slightest pretence of civil liberties and not run by totally idiotic up-yours conmen has to make a provision for the above factors, with a framework of exemptions which need to be authorised by somebody with a specified authority.
In the case of an EASA reg type the authority would need to be tied into Part M, but in the case of a foreign reg one it would need to be signed off by an appropriate authority e.g. an A&P/IA for an N-reg. This would be horribly complicated.
I am no lawyer but would be amazed if trapping such people would stand up if some rich victim decided to properly exhaust the legal options (ECJ for example).
France and the UK abandoned long term parking controls like that in 2004/2005, probably for these reasons as much as the controversy. One can understand Italy not giving a t055 about what anybody thinks, but if people can sue for compensation then it is all a bit pointless...
Until this is resolved, I will not even enter Italian airspace, which for me, with a 1300nm range, is not a significant hardship
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Unfortunately I could not find this official document in english, but seems that yesterday the special tax has been confimed (pdf taken from official italian revenue agency website):
http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps...13abf04737a844
Is there anyone that can give more information and confirm that?
Thank you
http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps...13abf04737a844
Is there anyone that can give more information and confirm that?
Thank you