Italians new tax..... SNAFU
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The problem is whether it is set in law now?
It's all very well saying that no body has yet been charged but they could be!
If it was a relatively small amount then it would be worth taking the risk
But as it stands you could be the guinea Pig for a charge which would cost a fortune!
Until the regulation is clarified its a risk that's too big to take.
Pace
It's all very well saying that no body has yet been charged but they could be!
If it was a relatively small amount then it would be worth taking the risk
But as it stands you could be the guinea Pig for a charge which would cost a fortune!
Until the regulation is clarified its a risk that's too big to take.
Pace
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Pace
Yes it is set in law.
The only thing is not clear yet and nobody seems to know is how much a foreign aircraft should pay, year, month or what.
As you said everybody is avoiding Italy because of that, not wanting to be the one caught out by it.
Yes it is set in law.
The only thing is not clear yet and nobody seems to know is how much a foreign aircraft should pay, year, month or what.
As you said everybody is avoiding Italy because of that, not wanting to be the one caught out by it.
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It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the corporate traffic going into the busy places such as Linate and Ciampino.
There may well soon be a thinning out of handling agents and maintenance companies in Italy.
It may well have been a joy for the law makers and bureaucrats to dream up, but this tax is as daft and as well thought out as the EU ETS. Given time both of them will go away.
There may well soon be a thinning out of handling agents and maintenance companies in Italy.
It may well have been a joy for the law makers and bureaucrats to dream up, but this tax is as daft and as well thought out as the EU ETS. Given time both of them will go away.
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It will be interesting to see what effect this has on the corporate traffic going into the busy places such as Linate and Ciampino
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The owner of my Jet is going to Sicily this week. I am going to drop and go to Malta leave it there for the week and collect unless the HA in Sicily are prepared to accept all responsibility for the tax if they say it wont happen and it does.
Pace
Pace
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We're going to Ciampino next month and our owners are staying a few days...we're repositioning to Dubrovnik to avoid the tax. Our lawyers tell us we are subject to this rule (C-registered), so we'd be on the hook for about 140000Euro at our MCGTOW.
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I went into Catania in Sicily a couple of days ago with the intention of positioning to Malta.
Spoke with the handlers who confirmed the tax and understood why we left for Malta.
Maybe a few handling agents and airports will start complaining at the lost income.
Pace
Spoke with the handlers who confirmed the tax and understood why we left for Malta.
Maybe a few handling agents and airports will start complaining at the lost income.
Pace
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All the positioning will cause more revenue to all involved:
ATC, handlers, airports, the states via taxes,ATC and ETS, and finally the fuelers.
Hotels in Italy might lose a bit, but everyone else will like it. Except the owners of course.
Bloody politicians
ATC, handlers, airports, the states via taxes,ATC and ETS, and finally the fuelers.
Hotels in Italy might lose a bit, but everyone else will like it. Except the owners of course.
Bloody politicians
Last edited by His dudeness; 16th Apr 2012 at 17:04.
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I was discussing this issue with pax only a few weeks ago. Two of the pax onboard have decided to move their boats elsewhere purely based on this tax. I checked my logbooks and have roughly been to Italy 20-25 each year, in the last few years flying "my main aircraft" there, staying several times on most occasions, it now looks like we will be avoiding Italy all together. So that's quite a bit of plane and boat fuel they are missing and all associated spending with us as crew staying overnight roughly 25 days a year and 2 decent sized yachts and associated passengers that no longer will be spending any money in Italy.
I don't know if we are a true reflection of passenger behaviour due to this tax, but there must be more like us out there. I have not a single trip to Italy scheduled in the foreseeable future, unlike previous years around this time.
I wonder if we would ever see a proper traffic count in a few years to see what effect this new tax has had on "footfall"
I don't know if we are a true reflection of passenger behaviour due to this tax, but there must be more like us out there. I have not a single trip to Italy scheduled in the foreseeable future, unlike previous years around this time.
I wonder if we would ever see a proper traffic count in a few years to see what effect this new tax has had on "footfall"
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Have you asked your guys to make this fact known to the Italian government?
In our case, we either still fly there or our flights will be done with chartered aircraft. But we are there purely for business and not leisure...
In our case, we either still fly there or our flights will be done with chartered aircraft. But we are there purely for business and not leisure...
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I agree with you and also think that "business" flights will not be adversely affected that much, however we never went there for business, pure leisure and at our weight, the added tax is just not worth going there when the principals can just about get the same for less money in the South of France and if they do decide to visit the islands, they will now just take the boat over instead of the aircraft. None of them owned any property there (as far as I know) and were just leisure visitors.
Not sure how foreigners that actually own property there and go there just for leisure are going to alter their behaviour based on this tax.
As to your second part of your post, I don't really see the point in "letting them know", I think they could care less. This tax is just another example of a tax on the rich to please the masses.
Not sure how foreigners that actually own property there and go there just for leisure are going to alter their behaviour based on this tax.
As to your second part of your post, I don't really see the point in "letting them know", I think they could care less. This tax is just another example of a tax on the rich to please the masses.
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An emendment to the law regarding the tax on foreign aircraft stopping over in Italy has been approved today increasing the duration of the stopover from 48 hours to 45 days. It now has to be ratified.
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Interesting AE. Is that cumulative or consecutive? Got a link? (in English?)
Can't answer if cumulative or consecutive (not specified) but IMHO it is consecutive. Most of all, consider that this is aimed at Italian residents that own foreign registered aircraft. Always IMHO, foreign owned aircraft are hardly going to be targeted, the lawsuits would be too expensive for the Italian goverment
Tax on foreign registered aircraft were a last minute addition to the original law because someone realised that all Italian owners would transfer Italian registered aircraft to other countries to not pay a stupid tax. It was written hastily by a "differently intelligent" member of parlament who did not have a clue of the international implications.
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In Italian, interested part at page 49: 3-bis.8.Il Relatore
Camera.it - Lavori - Resoconti delle Giunte e Commissioni - Dettaglio resoconto
Camera.it - Lavori - Resoconti delle Giunte e Commissioni - Dettaglio resoconto
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Google cleaned up a bit
14-bis. The tax referred to in paragraph 11 is also applied to aircraft not registered in the National Aeronautics Register held by ENAC, which stop in the Italian territory shall extend over forty days continuously. For the purposes of such term shall not be considered periods of stop for maintenance at national aircraft maintainers performing maintenance on the aircraft that fare part of the records of the maintenance technicians. The tax must be paid before the airplane returns to foreign territory. If parking in the Italian territory extends over a period of less than a year, the tax is payable in an amount equal to one twelfth of the amounts set out in paragraph 11 for each month from the arrival until the departure from the territory Italian. The exemptions of Article 14 apply and the exemption is extended to aircraft of foreign countries, including military ones.
15. By decision of the Director of Revenue, to be issued within sixty days from the date of entry into force of the law of conversion of this decree, there are procedures and deadlines for implementing the provisions of paragraphs 10-a and 11.
15-bis. In case of failure to pay or insufficient payment of taxes as per paragraphs 10-11a and the provisions of Legislative Decree 18 December 1997, n. 471, and Legislative Decree 18 December 1997, n. 472 ';
d) after paragraph 15-a is added as follows:
"15-b. The Guardia di finanza (Financial Police) and airport authorities will ensure proper compliance of obligations under the provisions of paragraphs from a 10-to 15-bis of this Article. "
2. The amendments made by subsection 1 paragraphs 11 and 14 and subsection 14-bis of Article 16 of Decree-Law n. 201 of 2011, ratified by Law n. 214, 2011, shall apply, respectively, from December 6, 2011 and from December 28, 2011. For aircraft referred to in subsection 14-bis of Article 16 of Decree-Law n. 201 of 2011 which, as of December 28, 2011 until the date of entry into force of this Decree, have been kept in the country for a period exceeding 45 days the tax is paid within ninety days from the date of entry into force of the law Conversion of this Decree. The amount of tax referred to in paragraph 11 of Article 16, paid in pursuance of the provisions previously in force in excess of the amount established by this Order, account shall be credited to the taxpayer at the time of the next renewal of the certificate of airworthiness review ; not proceed to the application of penalties and interest on tax payments pursuant to paragraph 11 of Article 16, taken under the earlier provisions to a lesser extent than that established by this decree, if the excess is paid within ninety days from the date of entry into force of the law of conversion of this Decree. ».
And
a) after paragraph 10 is added as follows:
"10-bis. The state treasury is hereby imposes a tax on passenger of air taxi flights. The tax is due for each passenger and for each leg, is fixed in the sum of 100 euros in case of route not more than 1,500 km and 200 euros in case of more than 1,500 route miles. The tax is payable by the passenger and then paid by the carrier ";
14-bis. The tax referred to in paragraph 11 is also applied to aircraft not registered in the National Aeronautics Register held by ENAC, which stop in the Italian territory shall extend over forty days continuously. For the purposes of such term shall not be considered periods of stop for maintenance at national aircraft maintainers performing maintenance on the aircraft that fare part of the records of the maintenance technicians. The tax must be paid before the airplane returns to foreign territory. If parking in the Italian territory extends over a period of less than a year, the tax is payable in an amount equal to one twelfth of the amounts set out in paragraph 11 for each month from the arrival until the departure from the territory Italian. The exemptions of Article 14 apply and the exemption is extended to aircraft of foreign countries, including military ones.
15. By decision of the Director of Revenue, to be issued within sixty days from the date of entry into force of the law of conversion of this decree, there are procedures and deadlines for implementing the provisions of paragraphs 10-a and 11.
15-bis. In case of failure to pay or insufficient payment of taxes as per paragraphs 10-11a and the provisions of Legislative Decree 18 December 1997, n. 471, and Legislative Decree 18 December 1997, n. 472 ';
d) after paragraph 15-a is added as follows:
"15-b. The Guardia di finanza (Financial Police) and airport authorities will ensure proper compliance of obligations under the provisions of paragraphs from a 10-to 15-bis of this Article. "
2. The amendments made by subsection 1 paragraphs 11 and 14 and subsection 14-bis of Article 16 of Decree-Law n. 201 of 2011, ratified by Law n. 214, 2011, shall apply, respectively, from December 6, 2011 and from December 28, 2011. For aircraft referred to in subsection 14-bis of Article 16 of Decree-Law n. 201 of 2011 which, as of December 28, 2011 until the date of entry into force of this Decree, have been kept in the country for a period exceeding 45 days the tax is paid within ninety days from the date of entry into force of the law Conversion of this Decree. The amount of tax referred to in paragraph 11 of Article 16, paid in pursuance of the provisions previously in force in excess of the amount established by this Order, account shall be credited to the taxpayer at the time of the next renewal of the certificate of airworthiness review ; not proceed to the application of penalties and interest on tax payments pursuant to paragraph 11 of Article 16, taken under the earlier provisions to a lesser extent than that established by this decree, if the excess is paid within ninety days from the date of entry into force of the law of conversion of this Decree. ».
And
a) after paragraph 10 is added as follows:
"10-bis. The state treasury is hereby imposes a tax on passenger of air taxi flights. The tax is due for each passenger and for each leg, is fixed in the sum of 100 euros in case of route not more than 1,500 km and 200 euros in case of more than 1,500 route miles. The tax is payable by the passenger and then paid by the carrier ";