Italians new tax..... SNAFU
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Nah you got that backwards, the Germans were too clever for you lot and as your taxsystem is in such shambles you were darn lucky you got away with collecting even that much.
Just have a look at what you guys pay in the markets, 7%, and then see what the markets think of the German debt.
Enough said.
Back to subject, the Italians sure are desperate if they go through with this silly tax proposal. But heh if you are that broke, you will try anything.
Just have a look at what you guys pay in the markets, 7%, and then see what the markets think of the German debt.
Enough said.
Back to subject, the Italians sure are desperate if they go through with this silly tax proposal. But heh if you are that broke, you will try anything.
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Not Italian, but close to it and operate occasionally into Italy.
Well, I did a bit of search.
According to this link, that looks like a direct extract from the official pubblication "Gazzetta Ufficiale" as published on Dec 22nd, the Comma 14bis seems to have been introduced and approved. This seems to be the final text.
http://www.piscino.it/file/leggi/fin...icembre-30.pdf
This is the way I understand at the moment, foreign registered aircraft will have to pay.
As I said there have been quite a bit of confusion around it, I'm in contact with a lawyer who is also interested in finding out correctly.
Will talk to him next week.
For the time being all I can say is be careful, check with your handler and, at least for now, try not to stay longer than 47 hours
Well, I did a bit of search.
According to this link, that looks like a direct extract from the official pubblication "Gazzetta Ufficiale" as published on Dec 22nd, the Comma 14bis seems to have been introduced and approved. This seems to be the final text.
http://www.piscino.it/file/leggi/fin...icembre-30.pdf
This is the way I understand at the moment, foreign registered aircraft will have to pay.
As I said there have been quite a bit of confusion around it, I'm in contact with a lawyer who is also interested in finding out correctly.
Will talk to him next week.
For the time being all I can say is be careful, check with your handler and, at least for now, try not to stay longer than 47 hours
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@Gabriele, sorry for putting you in the wrong country, what I meant is Italian speaker....
Yes I´m 2,20 mtrs tall, have the bluest eyes in the world and I´m blonde and I could kill you just by looking at you. The force is with me and we Germans are better than anyone.
Yawn....
So, Bosch did not pay taxes they owed and your rotten Country let them go thru with it and now you want to blame whom for that? Me? Is a polite 'f... you' good enough for an answer?
Allright then, although I live in Baden-Wuerttemberg - where Bosch resides - I´m not connected in any way, shape or form to Bosch. Sorry, me is a bad liar, I do have a Bosch Dishwasher...I´m sorry for this and will throw it away asap.
Arian friends
Yawn....
In two words Bosch didn't pay 1300 MILLIONS of taxes in Italy, and agreed to settle for 300 millions...
Allright then, although I live in Baden-Wuerttemberg - where Bosch resides - I´m not connected in any way, shape or form to Bosch. Sorry, me is a bad liar, I do have a Bosch Dishwasher...I´m sorry for this and will throw it away asap.
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Nigel Farage: 'A German dominated Europe' [16-Nov-11] - YouTube
We made the Greece economy fail by prohibiting every single Greek to pay his taxes due.
We made the celtic tiger struggle and we invaded Portugal to make them poor. Whilst doing that we did not forget Spain, we made them fail too.
A, forgot Iceland, we broke em too just in case they would join EU.
And all of that effort was taken so that we can pay more.
Now that is what I call a cunning plan!!! Even Baldrick couldn´t make that one up...
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1. What next - this will affect all of us, not just tax evading Mediterranean minorities. I feel for you in that you're homeland (and many others) are bailing these guys out of your taxes. Just imagine for one minute that your boss may consider selling his aircraft due to these increased operating overheads...
2. It's a disaster!
3. BTW are you speaking from an airline pilots viewpoint?
2. It's a disaster!
3. BTW are you speaking from an airline pilots viewpoint?
2. As I said I lived in Italy for twenty years. Luxury tax is nothing new and has worked very well in the past (until Berlusconi abolished it to do himself and his friends a favor). The "redditometro" as it uses to be called never killed private aviation on the contrary, it explains the well-being of the Italian microlight industry.
3. No
Happy landings
Max
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Max, with all due respect, do you fly commercially to Elba? I don´t think so or have they made the runway longer?
And if they decide to have a tax on ITALIAN Aircraft, okay...but why should anybody else pay that? In my case (13744kg, pvt ops) that would be like 104000€. We do fly to Italy probably 4 times a year and usually stay 1 night.
So if something is broken, we do pay a 104000€ penalty for, say, a broken generator? On top of fuel MOT, handling/landing/ATC and what not? A company that has created jobs in Italy?
If they get through with that, others will follow and in the end anyone operating a private airplane will consider the operation as incalculable, something my peers would not accept. This is a real threat. And we could not get on an AOC as our homebase would not permit comm ops.
Does anyone know how private is defined? Is a coorperate airplane no AOC private to the Italian customs?
I just wonder what would happen if this would apply to private cars!!!
And why are commercial aircraft exempt? Whats the reasoning behind that?
And if they decide to have a tax on ITALIAN Aircraft, okay...but why should anybody else pay that? In my case (13744kg, pvt ops) that would be like 104000€. We do fly to Italy probably 4 times a year and usually stay 1 night.
So if something is broken, we do pay a 104000€ penalty for, say, a broken generator? On top of fuel MOT, handling/landing/ATC and what not? A company that has created jobs in Italy?
If they get through with that, others will follow and in the end anyone operating a private airplane will consider the operation as incalculable, something my peers would not accept. This is a real threat. And we could not get on an AOC as our homebase would not permit comm ops.
Does anyone know how private is defined? Is a coorperate airplane no AOC private to the Italian customs?
I just wonder what would happen if this would apply to private cars!!!
And why are commercial aircraft exempt? Whats the reasoning behind that?
Last edited by His dudeness; 2nd Jan 2012 at 16:30.
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I just wonder what would happen if this would apply to private cars!!!
Boats are affected too.
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To private cars owned and registered NOT in Italy? Sorry only just saw: ->(at least this one does not apply to foreigners)
But thats what I meant, why airplanes and not cars? Private foreign boats?
But thats what I meant, why airplanes and not cars? Private foreign boats?
Last edited by His dudeness; 2nd Jan 2012 at 16:45.
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Forgive me for intruding, but the MTOW of our G550 is (I think) 41,300 kg. Thus, at 7.55 euros per kg it would cost me 311,815 Euros should I have the misfortune to spend more than 48 hours in Italy? Much as I love the country, I can absolutely guarantee you that we are NOT going there for vacation until this tax goes away. Sheesh.
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It's more likely you are going to pay that much if you stay for 365 days, and "just" X/365 where X is the number of days you stay there.
But we will know abou how this law will be implemented in the close future i guess.
But we will know abou how this law will be implemented in the close future i guess.
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Hello!
I found the time to look up and read all the relevant bits of the original law (called "decreto salva Italia" which means decree to save Italy). Absolutely no mention anywhere regarding foreign registered aircraft (or cars and boats). All we will see are the usual smart five percent of the population who own ninetyfive percent of everything, flagging out their toys and avoiding taxes as always.
I found the time to look up and read all the relevant bits of the original law (called "decreto salva Italia" which means decree to save Italy). Absolutely no mention anywhere regarding foreign registered aircraft (or cars and boats). All we will see are the usual smart five percent of the population who own ninetyfive percent of everything, flagging out their toys and avoiding taxes as always.
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Best we all relax and wait and see how the law will be implemented.
The article regarding aircraft not registered on the Italian Register was a last moment add on to the basic law. Thought and written by a differently intelligent person.
Collecting the tax will be an extremely expensive burocratic nightmare for the Italian goverment and will probably be ruled as illegal by international law the way it is currently written.
I bet that if implemented it will be killed by June
The article regarding aircraft not registered on the Italian Register was a last moment add on to the basic law. Thought and written by a differently intelligent person.
Collecting the tax will be an extremely expensive burocratic nightmare for the Italian goverment and will probably be ruled as illegal by international law the way it is currently written.
I bet that if implemented it will be killed by June
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I found the time to look up and read all the relevant bits of the original law (called "decreto salva Italia" which means decree to save Italy). Absolutely no mention anywhere regarding foreign registered aircraft (or cars and boats). All we will see are the usual smart five percent of the population who own ninetyfive percent of everything, flagging out their toys and avoiding taxes as always.
http://www.piscino.it/file/leggi/fin...icembre-30.pdf
Gazzetta n. 300 del 27 dicembre 2011 -
Look for articolo 16 comma 14bis
As AfricanEagle says it will probably be deleted sometimes in the near future, but at the moment this is were we stand.
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Interestingly enough the tax is quoted as an "annual rate". Before anyone gets up in arms about it, it'd be probably interesting to find out then if the actual amount to be paid is the annual rate prorated down to the actual number of days spent. Otherwise I wouldn't see the point of having an "annual rate".
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Check out these links
http://www.piscino.it/file/leggi/fin...icembre-30.pdf
Gazzetta n. 300 del 27 dicembre 2011 -
Look for articolo 16 comma 14bis
http://www.piscino.it/file/leggi/fin...icembre-30.pdf
Gazzetta n. 300 del 27 dicembre 2011 -
Look for articolo 16 comma 14bis
But the last word has not been spoken yet, as this law is constantly amended. For boats, the law becomes effective after May 1st, for aircraft no specific date is mentioned. (BTW: Boats are taxed on a daily basis, even for "fractions of days"!)
There is now also an "articolo 15 comma 15-ter" with a discount scheme for older aircraft: After 5, 10 and 15 years of age, the tax is reduced to 60, 30 and 15 percent of the nominal value. And aircraft older than 20 years are completely excempt. Good news of lots of private owners of piston singles and twins.
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There is now also an "articolo 15 comma 15-ter" with a discount scheme for older aircraft: After 5, 10 and 15 years of age, the tax is reduced to 60, 30 and 15 percent of the nominal value. And aircraft older than 20 years are completely excempt. Good news of lots of private owners of piston singles and twins.
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The above 15 ter applies only to cars and boats
Dg800