To those seeking work
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Silverware.. I agree with you. I am ex Netjets and still can't find any employment because I do not have the correct type rating.. and paying for it will not do, not only because I do not have the money for it, but.. because you need hours on type.. even if it is only 50.. so I can agree .. Aviation in general has gone to the dogs and most people can't give a 
if you are unemployed and behind on your mortgage!!!
As long as they have a job.. all is well !!
if you are unemployed and behind on your mortgage!!!As long as they have a job.. all is well !!
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I have been part of the recruitment process in various forms over the years, from corporations, private owners to commercial operators. There is nothing wrong with sending CV's that do not meet the requirements. Many operators need to stagger their FO's and Captains to prevent bottlenecks in upgrading and natural turnover. There are several times where I have come across a CV of an inexperienced FO that for one reason or another got my interest and I kept that particular applicant to one side for future reference and/or recruitment. Sometimes just a way a CV or cover letter is written or some of the interests/background of a particular applicant not meeting the requirements at that time makes it interesting enough to keep in the "maybe file".
Recruitment in our line of work is not always about hours and experience, it often is about personality and whether the team gets along with a new applicant as we spend lots of time together in each others space and downroute for days on end.
So don't let the OP's laziness in having to read "unwanted" CV's keep you from sending them.
The one CV that always ends up in the "circular file" is the one with a rating and no experience, but that is for another thread.
Good luck to all those looking for work.
Recruitment in our line of work is not always about hours and experience, it often is about personality and whether the team gets along with a new applicant as we spend lots of time together in each others space and downroute for days on end.
So don't let the OP's laziness in having to read "unwanted" CV's keep you from sending them.
The one CV that always ends up in the "circular file" is the one with a rating and no experience, but that is for another thread.
Good luck to all those looking for work.
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and most people can't give a if you are unemployed and behind on your mortgage!!!
As long as they have a job.. all is well !!
As long as they have a job.. all is well !!
So as long as you were NetJets, you were in the 'I do care about any unemployed pilot' brigade?
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NuName...
A friendly word of advice: If you don't like studying job applications yourself - get a secretary or pay a service provider or head hunter that will sort out everything for you. What use is it complaining about this in a public forum ?
You should treat those that are showing interest in your company with a little more respect (just to be professional) - after all there is always a person behind an application.
Of course there are and always will be many that just lack common sense, as they do not fit the profile in any way and they can't be given any attention - no debate about that - for that person concerned it takes just as much common sense not to receive a reply to such a gamble.
What you are basically showing, is that you are not willing to invest an intelligent thought or a penny in solving your problem - so what does that tell us about you ?
Part of the problem of course is also Internet and Email - it takes 2 seconds to send an on line application - no effort involved and very superficial - which is why some operators insist on receiving classic postal applications only as the increased cost and effort make many chancers refrain. If you don't have any creative ideas of your own and continue using your current media - stop complaining about the quality of the result.
You should treat those that are showing interest in your company with a little more respect (just to be professional) - after all there is always a person behind an application.
Of course there are and always will be many that just lack common sense, as they do not fit the profile in any way and they can't be given any attention - no debate about that - for that person concerned it takes just as much common sense not to receive a reply to such a gamble.
What you are basically showing, is that you are not willing to invest an intelligent thought or a penny in solving your problem - so what does that tell us about you ?
Part of the problem of course is also Internet and Email - it takes 2 seconds to send an on line application - no effort involved and very superficial - which is why some operators insist on receiving classic postal applications only as the increased cost and effort make many chancers refrain. If you don't have any creative ideas of your own and continue using your current media - stop complaining about the quality of the result.
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Propellerpilot
Thank you for your words of wisdom, everybody has an opinion and this is yours, but not for me thank you. Where you get your ideas from I am not clear about, I have plenty of respect and sympathy for those seeking work, I do a lot of it myself. Sloving my problem is not so difficult, in fact I have alreay solved it. If you cant understand how much the workload is increased by applications that are so way off the mark, but one wishes to be civilised and reply, then you have either never done it, you don't bother to reply or you are a sucker for punishment. I am now wondering what exactly your post tells us about you, inexperience maybe.
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Be nice folks - no one likes being without a job, having qualifications running out in the near future. NuName has a point aswell of course.
It's never easy these days, whether you have 200 or 2000 hours.
I honestly think that if the 200 or 300 or 2000 hours guy / gal takes the time to apply to a job out of reach, they are either very desperate or feel like they have somthing that could be worth more than flying experience to an operator.
Either way - it's not like there haven't been folks with 250hrs in the right hand seat of Citations or Hawkers and coped very well.
Just saying.
It's never easy these days, whether you have 200 or 2000 hours.
I honestly think that if the 200 or 300 or 2000 hours guy / gal takes the time to apply to a job out of reach, they are either very desperate or feel like they have somthing that could be worth more than flying experience to an operator.
Either way - it's not like there haven't been folks with 250hrs in the right hand seat of Citations or Hawkers and coped very well.
Just saying.
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Now don't be arrogant if you have nothing else to reply. The issues and questions I have raised have some legitimacy and are valid - after all you have started this thread and I now ask myself - what does a person expect from that ? If you don't like discussion, then why don't you lock this thread ?
If you have solved the problem - good for you. It has showed inexperience on your part in managing your own recruitment - the responsibility of getting spammed with applications lies with the quality of your method and it has nothing to do with anybody else.
No and after your last reply: I don't expect you to comprehend me.
If you have solved the problem - good for you. It has showed inexperience on your part in managing your own recruitment - the responsibility of getting spammed with applications lies with the quality of your method and it has nothing to do with anybody else.
No and after your last reply: I don't expect you to comprehend me.
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His Dudeness.... as for your question..
"So as long as you were NetJets, you were in the 'I do care about any unemployed pilot' brigade?"
The short answer to that is.. YES I WAS!
"So as long as you were NetJets, you were in the 'I do care about any unemployed pilot' brigade?"
The short answer to that is.. YES I WAS!
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Nuname...ok, I'll say it.......your chumming the internet for pilots.....and my experience has shown that your typical employer is looking for something more specific then what has been advertised in the advertisement.
Bottom line...you tell everyone you want THESE qualifications...now let's take a hard look at the guy you actually hired....I would put money on it, he is far from the ideal, insurance qualified, highly experienced...blah blah blah pilot you said you were looking for.
Going to the internet for pilots is chasing the low hanging fruit, so you'll end up looking down on the ground once in a while to pick up an apple that fell off the tree, and not grab a ladder to climb up top and get the one you really want.
Bottom line...you tell everyone you want THESE qualifications...now let's take a hard look at the guy you actually hired....I would put money on it, he is far from the ideal, insurance qualified, highly experienced...blah blah blah pilot you said you were looking for.
Going to the internet for pilots is chasing the low hanging fruit, so you'll end up looking down on the ground once in a while to pick up an apple that fell off the tree, and not grab a ladder to climb up top and get the one you really want.
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INNflight.
I agree with you entirely. I am a rated, and current, self-funded LPC in April, Embraer Legacy FO. I worked in Russia and left there without 21,000. I have just short of 200 hours on type and another 500'ish hours on Citation II's, all that with just 60 hours short of an unfrozen ATPL. How do I get the attention I need, I'm 51 but look and act 40, get me through the door and you would see that in an instant. What I do have is all corporate and single pilot ops experience, I know passengers can be very demanding, but I deal with it, I'm old enough to know my money comes from them, life experience see. I have run my own business for 26 years so my fiscal and operational decisions are no different to those of any multi-national or tiny company and I carry that through to any employers day to day business.
In short, I believe I have a lot to offer, and I'm sorry if now and then I clog up your system, but I want, and indeed am, determined to realise a reward for all that time, study and financial commitment.
Thats what I'll give you, if that ain't enough....................well !!
I agree with you entirely. I am a rated, and current, self-funded LPC in April, Embraer Legacy FO. I worked in Russia and left there without 21,000. I have just short of 200 hours on type and another 500'ish hours on Citation II's, all that with just 60 hours short of an unfrozen ATPL. How do I get the attention I need, I'm 51 but look and act 40, get me through the door and you would see that in an instant. What I do have is all corporate and single pilot ops experience, I know passengers can be very demanding, but I deal with it, I'm old enough to know my money comes from them, life experience see. I have run my own business for 26 years so my fiscal and operational decisions are no different to those of any multi-national or tiny company and I carry that through to any employers day to day business.
In short, I believe I have a lot to offer, and I'm sorry if now and then I clog up your system, but I want, and indeed am, determined to realise a reward for all that time, study and financial commitment.
Thats what I'll give you, if that ain't enough....................well !!
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Propellerpilot:
Propellerpilot:
So PP, you are running a recruitment agency, aren`t you?
If one cannot expect to get qualified reply if asking for only specific experience/qualification from supposedly educated people, than...?
We recruited in 2009, and my peers left no doubt in what minimum qual they wanted (SIC, 500 jet time, GA background,T/R was provided) and I was bathed in applications from newbies and 100% airliners. 1 in twenty was suitable.
Whilst I understand the reasons for applying to a job that one - given the pilot market in 2009 and 2010 - canīt expect to get, it still is at least an annoiance to the people that have to wade through that stuff. As said before, I answered every application (I hate non answers myself)
Using an agency by the way was no option, the airplane was up for sale and extra money not available. I was lucky to keep my job as the airplane was not sellable for a reasonable price.
Swamthing:
So you did care about unemployed folks getting a job in NJ? Or how can I understand that "YES"? I feel lucky not to be in your position, BUT that does not mean that I have the slighest bit positive feeling about your position. There is nothing that I could gain in feeling good about unemployed people, may it be pilots or others. The opposite is true, the lesser unemployed pilots are there, the better and more solid is my situation.
I just wonder how you would expect 'us' (employed, supposedly not giving a pile of poo...) to react to your sentence:
Would you give up your job because you donīt have a mortgage to help an unemployed with one?
I canīt create jobs in my current position. Easy as that. Iīd recruite 4 pilots and retreat to my sofa, but the boss doesnt buy that.
What you are basically showing, is that you are not willing to invest an intelligent thought or a penny in solving your problem - so what does that tell us about you ?
It has showed inexperience on your part in managing your own recruitment - the responsibility of getting spammed with applications lies with the quality of your method and it has nothing to do with anybody else.
If one cannot expect to get qualified reply if asking for only specific experience/qualification from supposedly educated people, than...?
We recruited in 2009, and my peers left no doubt in what minimum qual they wanted (SIC, 500 jet time, GA background,T/R was provided) and I was bathed in applications from newbies and 100% airliners. 1 in twenty was suitable.
Whilst I understand the reasons for applying to a job that one - given the pilot market in 2009 and 2010 - canīt expect to get, it still is at least an annoiance to the people that have to wade through that stuff. As said before, I answered every application (I hate non answers myself)
Using an agency by the way was no option, the airplane was up for sale and extra money not available. I was lucky to keep my job as the airplane was not sellable for a reasonable price.
Swamthing:
The short answer to that is.. YES I WAS!
I just wonder how you would expect 'us' (employed, supposedly not giving a pile of poo...) to react to your sentence:
Aviation in general has gone to the dogs and most people can't give a if you are unemployed and behind on your mortgage!!!
I canīt create jobs in my current position. Easy as that. Iīd recruite 4 pilots and retreat to my sofa, but the boss doesnt buy that.
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Type rating required
So, for you recruiters out there:
If one would meet all requirements, have some experience from Biz aviation, and favour this segment rather than the airlines, but does not hold the valid type rating asked for. Is it then reasonable to send an application?
If one would meet all requirements, have some experience from Biz aviation, and favour this segment rather than the airlines, but does not hold the valid type rating asked for. Is it then reasonable to send an application?
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These guys for the most part hire, buddies, pals, friends, suck ups, brown nosers, and people that can do something for them...as a rule.
Send your resume in, and do what you can to suck up to the chief pilot...he'll put a Pomeranian into the front seat of an Airbus if the dog rolls over when he says so.
Send your resume in, and do what you can to suck up to the chief pilot...he'll put a Pomeranian into the front seat of an Airbus if the dog rolls over when he says so.
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C'mon guys....
The first poster made a very valid point.
With all the respect and wishes of good luck to everyone looking for an employment without currently having a job, really, really, if you are not even close to stated requirements, why do you apply?
An example, if you advertise for a Global Captain position, having a VALID JAA type rating and being current, the most of the applications are from people who don't even come close to it. Literally HUNDREDS of applications from pilots whom just gratuated with around 200 hrs of flight time.
Would be kind of same than someone would be looking for a Chief Financial Officer for a big multinational corporation and someone who has just finished high school would apply for it.
Sure, you can do it, but honestly, what is the point?
Another thing concerning some of the recruitment agencys and websites.
They have a tendency to post very old adds as a new ones and therefore waste everyones time.
Then comes the second wave. People whom had applied for such a non-existing position will send a second e-mail in about few weeks asking how their application is proceeding.
At the beginning I was trying to send a reply to everyone, but due to current market situation and the amount of application (95% of them again non-relevant) I have stopped to do so.
Once more, we have all been there looking for a job and really really all the best for everyone, but if you do not come even close to minimum qualifications, please understand, that position is not for you, yet.
Some day it may very well be.
Good luck for everyone!
With all the respect and wishes of good luck to everyone looking for an employment without currently having a job, really, really, if you are not even close to stated requirements, why do you apply?
An example, if you advertise for a Global Captain position, having a VALID JAA type rating and being current, the most of the applications are from people who don't even come close to it. Literally HUNDREDS of applications from pilots whom just gratuated with around 200 hrs of flight time.
Would be kind of same than someone would be looking for a Chief Financial Officer for a big multinational corporation and someone who has just finished high school would apply for it.
Sure, you can do it, but honestly, what is the point?
Another thing concerning some of the recruitment agencys and websites.
They have a tendency to post very old adds as a new ones and therefore waste everyones time.
Then comes the second wave. People whom had applied for such a non-existing position will send a second e-mail in about few weeks asking how their application is proceeding.
At the beginning I was trying to send a reply to everyone, but due to current market situation and the amount of application (95% of them again non-relevant) I have stopped to do so.
Once more, we have all been there looking for a job and really really all the best for everyone, but if you do not come even close to minimum qualifications, please understand, that position is not for you, yet.
Some day it may very well be.
Good luck for everyone!
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Hi Gents,and ladies of course,
Since there seem to be so many prospective employers on this thread,I can save myself the trouble of applying through the regular channels
.
If you are looking for a pilot that can fly both fixed wing and helicopters,I might be the perfect candidate.
9000 hours and a JAA ATPL fixed wing and helicopters.
Have a rating in the HS125(not current at the moment) and the S76,AS332,S92.
So if you need a really allround pilot with business jet experience please sent me a pm.
Enjoy the remainder of the weekend all of you.
Since there seem to be so many prospective employers on this thread,I can save myself the trouble of applying through the regular channels
.If you are looking for a pilot that can fly both fixed wing and helicopters,I might be the perfect candidate.
9000 hours and a JAA ATPL fixed wing and helicopters.
Have a rating in the HS125(not current at the moment) and the S76,AS332,S92.
So if you need a really allround pilot with business jet experience please sent me a pm.
Enjoy the remainder of the weekend all of you.
