Single-Pilot-Ops
The One Your Mother Warned You About
Join Date: Mar 2007
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NuName;
At least the jets go on top of the worst of the weather! A pressurised piston tends to sit in it all the way, gathering ice as it goes.
I know what you mean about the owners though, now there is a recipe for cockpit bad temper and chaos.
FF
At least the jets go on top of the worst of the weather! A pressurised piston tends to sit in it all the way, gathering ice as it goes.
I know what you mean about the owners though, now there is a recipe for cockpit bad temper and chaos.
FF
Join Date: May 2010
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"deefer dog
There are many of us here who have (or rather had) Single Pilot Waivers for a variety of FAA types - especially the CE 500 series which would otherwise have required two crew. The fact is that while we may have gotten away with it a few years ago here in EU land, it aint the case any more - irrespective of whether we still fly an airplane on N reg. SPW's issued by the FAA aint worth diddly squat anymore outside of the Continental US. Period."
How about in Asia?
There are many of us here who have (or rather had) Single Pilot Waivers for a variety of FAA types - especially the CE 500 series which would otherwise have required two crew. The fact is that while we may have gotten away with it a few years ago here in EU land, it aint the case any more - irrespective of whether we still fly an airplane on N reg. SPW's issued by the FAA aint worth diddly squat anymore outside of the Continental US. Period."
How about in Asia?
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I really did not mean to start a war here, 
I was just curious is it just the EU that does not recognize the single pilot waiver, or has that spread to other parts of the world.
What about the Citation I/SP and II/SP? Are waivers required for those, or are they single pilot "out of the box"?
I was just curious is it just the EU that does not recognize the single pilot waiver, or has that spread to other parts of the world.
What about the Citation I/SP and II/SP? Are waivers required for those, or are they single pilot "out of the box"?
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Any aircraft over 5700kg requires 2 rated pilots in Europe. spw does not help. I used to fly the Citation Encore on a spw until we found out that it was not legal. Even FSI did not want to do the spw training if they new we where operating in Europe, think that says everything??
Join Date: Jan 2002
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CJ3 and CJ4 are over 5.7T and are single pilot aircraft. I think its just to do with the single/multipilot certification.
I'd be interested to see the statistics on the safety record of single pilot type jets operated single pilot and see if it is demonstrably less safe that operating those aircraft two crew. I can't think of any recent serious single pilot instances in jets but there have been a few in single pilot types operated multi crew. I've never understood the logic of allowing single pilot operations in a kingair or similar but not in a CJ or a Premier1 - both of which are much simpler aircraft with better avionics (generally) and much better OEI performance.
Its difficult to compare like with like when analysing accident statistics so I don't know how easy it is to draw conclusions regarding the relative safety of single pilot flying.
I'd be interested to see the statistics on the safety record of single pilot type jets operated single pilot and see if it is demonstrably less safe that operating those aircraft two crew. I can't think of any recent serious single pilot instances in jets but there have been a few in single pilot types operated multi crew. I've never understood the logic of allowing single pilot operations in a kingair or similar but not in a CJ or a Premier1 - both of which are much simpler aircraft with better avionics (generally) and much better OEI performance.
Its difficult to compare like with like when analysing accident statistics so I don't know how easy it is to draw conclusions regarding the relative safety of single pilot flying.
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I'd be interested to see the statistics on the safety record of single pilot type jets operated single pilot
Pace
Join Date: Aug 2006
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IMVHO two competant crew in an emergency has just got to be a better scenario, even if only for the fact that one would be flying the aircraft and the other taking care of comms and checklists not to mention that 2 good heads are better than one and 4 eyes better than 2. Did I just say even if only? 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Pace,
Not always such a large hike in the insurance for single pilot ops.
The qualifications and experience of the pilot also form a large factor in it, but in fairness there can be some comparatively low houred inexperienced pilots in single pilot jets as owner pilots. That also probably has some bearing on the accident rates as well I should imagine?
When an owner employs an experienced captain to fly the aircraft the step up in premium is not as steep as one may imagine when compared to a 2 crew operation.
In my opinion, two crew is not always a safer or easier option than single though, as when training a new first officer or new captain the workload can be even more than just flying on your own. For the most part though, 2 pairs of eyes are generally more likely to notice an error etc.
There's always exceptions and different ways to look at things, but at the end of the day we all just have to follow the legislation laid down for us. If we intend to cross international borders (johns7022) then I guess that means we have to abide by the law of those countries also (whether you agree with them or not).
Have a nice day
Not always such a large hike in the insurance for single pilot ops.
The qualifications and experience of the pilot also form a large factor in it, but in fairness there can be some comparatively low houred inexperienced pilots in single pilot jets as owner pilots. That also probably has some bearing on the accident rates as well I should imagine?
When an owner employs an experienced captain to fly the aircraft the step up in premium is not as steep as one may imagine when compared to a 2 crew operation.
In my opinion, two crew is not always a safer or easier option than single though, as when training a new first officer or new captain the workload can be even more than just flying on your own. For the most part though, 2 pairs of eyes are generally more likely to notice an error etc.
There's always exceptions and different ways to look at things, but at the end of the day we all just have to follow the legislation laid down for us. If we intend to cross international borders (johns7022) then I guess that means we have to abide by the law of those countries also (whether you agree with them or not).
Have a nice day
Join Date: Jan 2002
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hello Pace
Interestingly enough the last two companies I worked for were not charged any excess premium at all for single pilot operations. I have most of the UK statistics and incident reports for single pilot and two crew operations in jets and because of the extremely low number of incidents its very hard to draw any meaningful conclusions. The biggin hill incident and all the less serious periphal incidents from commercial operators massively skew the figures and if you were to draw a direct conclusion from the stats you would have to say that two crew is more dangerous than single crew which even I would agree is a bit ridiculous. Personally I don't find single crew ops any more taxing than two crew ops and would say that the biggest loading on me as a pilot is when I am line training or checking another captain. Also, the first few sectors line training new FO's who are learning to operate the aircraft can be a bit of a load - I usually get the FO to just handle for the first 15 sectors or so to get to grips with the aircraft and this can put a bit of a load on the line trainer.
I'm just not sure that the evidence that single pilot ops is more dangerous than multi crew ops is as clear as the CAA would have us believe. And if it was that clear I think a lot of king air operators would have switched to multi pilot operations a long time ago.
and I'm not trying to be contrary - I'm genuinely interested in the relative risk
Just as an aside.. I've done roughly 1800 sectors in CJ's. I've committed two level busts, both of which were whilst line training and both were while line training another captain and I MOR'd both of them (they were both my fault). I haven't had any incidents at all flying single pilot other than systems failures but I don't think that proves a lot because I fly multi pilot a lot more than I fly single crew.
Interestingly enough the last two companies I worked for were not charged any excess premium at all for single pilot operations. I have most of the UK statistics and incident reports for single pilot and two crew operations in jets and because of the extremely low number of incidents its very hard to draw any meaningful conclusions. The biggin hill incident and all the less serious periphal incidents from commercial operators massively skew the figures and if you were to draw a direct conclusion from the stats you would have to say that two crew is more dangerous than single crew which even I would agree is a bit ridiculous. Personally I don't find single crew ops any more taxing than two crew ops and would say that the biggest loading on me as a pilot is when I am line training or checking another captain. Also, the first few sectors line training new FO's who are learning to operate the aircraft can be a bit of a load - I usually get the FO to just handle for the first 15 sectors or so to get to grips with the aircraft and this can put a bit of a load on the line trainer.
I'm just not sure that the evidence that single pilot ops is more dangerous than multi crew ops is as clear as the CAA would have us believe. And if it was that clear I think a lot of king air operators would have switched to multi pilot operations a long time ago.
and I'm not trying to be contrary - I'm genuinely interested in the relative risk
Just as an aside.. I've done roughly 1800 sectors in CJ's. I've committed two level busts, both of which were whilst line training and both were while line training another captain and I MOR'd both of them (they were both my fault). I haven't had any incidents at all flying single pilot other than systems failures but I don't think that proves a lot because I fly multi pilot a lot more than I fly single crew.
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Pace...please don't perpetuate the myth that single pilot ops are dangerous and expensive...
I was named on 5 Citations at one time as a Single Pilot Captain...and everyone's insurance dropped...which is one of the reasons they wanted me on board...insurance rates are dependent on the pilot background, ratings, and experience.
As far as accident rates...those operating under the exemption/waiver...not the single pilot type enjoy about the lowest accident rate in the industry...the only guys crashing jets single pilot are the biz owners....not the pros.
I was named on 5 Citations at one time as a Single Pilot Captain...and everyone's insurance dropped...which is one of the reasons they wanted me on board...insurance rates are dependent on the pilot background, ratings, and experience.
As far as accident rates...those operating under the exemption/waiver...not the single pilot type enjoy about the lowest accident rate in the industry...the only guys crashing jets single pilot are the biz owners....not the pros.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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johns we all get it - you are chuck yeager..
for everyone else..
does anyone have any references for confirmation bias orientated incidents have exacerbated a problem (interesting to read the Kerry incident thats being talked about on here).
A proper discussion regarding multi-pilot/single-pilot ops would be useful. Personally I don't think its easy to state with absolution that one is safer than the other. Some of the inherited wisdom from larger, multi crew aircraft with far more complex systems does seem to get forced on aircraft where that type of operation seems like overkill.
..who knows.. its all a load of bollocks...
for everyone else..
does anyone have any references for confirmation bias orientated incidents have exacerbated a problem (interesting to read the Kerry incident thats being talked about on here).
A proper discussion regarding multi-pilot/single-pilot ops would be useful. Personally I don't think its easy to state with absolution that one is safer than the other. Some of the inherited wisdom from larger, multi crew aircraft with far more complex systems does seem to get forced on aircraft where that type of operation seems like overkill.
..who knows.. its all a load of bollocks...
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I can remember seeing the stats prob FAA that single pilot ops increased the accident rate dramatically but as someone else stated this may be due to PPLs flying CJs in FAA Land.
There is no doubt that a competant FO is a safety factor and a bonus when the going gets rough.
From experience a low time or inexperienced FO increases the work load above SP as you are forever checking them for mistakes or rectifying those mistakes.
Pace
There is no doubt that a competant FO is a safety factor and a bonus when the going gets rough.
From experience a low time or inexperienced FO increases the work load above SP as you are forever checking them for mistakes or rectifying those mistakes.
Pace
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Oh Johns, would you please be kind enough to let me have your autograph? I'll PM you with my address....also my girlfriend wants your phone number - you are her hero.
I along with MANY others flew most of the Citation 500 series under the SPW waiver, but as soon as the authorities in Europe wised up to the fact that it was not legal outside of North America we stopped.
I'm pleased we did too - it's much more fun downroute.
I along with MANY others flew most of the Citation 500 series under the SPW waiver, but as soon as the authorities in Europe wised up to the fact that it was not legal outside of North America we stopped.
I'm pleased we did too - it's much more fun downroute.
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Sorry guys I am not taking the bait...If I hop in a plane by myself...that's doesn't make me arrogant, it means I passed the SP ride. Just saying..... I don't run around and slam test pilots, guy's commanding the space shuttle, Bush pilots that land on ice...I just do what I do... So if you want the facts of single pilot operations in a Citation..you just might consider asking someone that is actually doing it.......vs listening to the guys that feel there is some built in conflict between crew concept and SP ops...there isn't......it's manufactured by some guys, so insecure of their own abilities, leaning heavily on cockpit gear and crew members to get them through a flight...
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well I'm doing it tomorrow morning so I'll ask myself.
Tom.. How do you find single pilot ops?
Tom.. Slightly less fun downroute but otherwise very similar. Big houses, little houses, don't hit the hills etc
Tom.. Thanks for the interview
Tom.. No problem. Nice to have someone to talk to.
biggest problem in single pilot ops is not having a colleague to phone my room in the morning and ask where the hell I am.. night all
Tom.. How do you find single pilot ops?
Tom.. Slightly less fun downroute but otherwise very similar. Big houses, little houses, don't hit the hills etc
Tom.. Thanks for the interview
Tom.. No problem. Nice to have someone to talk to.
biggest problem in single pilot ops is not having a colleague to phone my room in the morning and ask where the hell I am.. night all