Single-Pilot-Ops
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Tom,
Nice little interview with yourself there.
Tell me the GMT time you want woken and I'll make sure you're up........just like the old days lol. Of course that is dependant on it not being too early in the morning (also like the old days).
Make sure you leave your mobile on loud though eh old bean
Nice little interview with yourself there.
Tell me the GMT time you want woken and I'll make sure you're up........just like the old days lol. Of course that is dependant on it not being too early in the morning (also like the old days).
Make sure you leave your mobile on loud though eh old bean
Join Date: Mar 2010
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You guys know there is significant training difference and checkride standard between those that get a King Air 350 or CJ single pilot type and that of a Single Pilot Waiver in the two pilot jets, like the Encore...right?
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Johns7022,
The biggest difference of course is that the King Air and CJ* you mention can still be flown single pilot on both sides of the pond (* as long as it's not public transport).
Yes training is different for the exemption to fly multi pilot types single crew as the flightdeck is not so conveniently set up to cater for the missing person etc. The checkride standard, however, is hopefully the same as you need to demonstrate your ability to fly the aircraft within the prescribed tolerences in both examples. I agree that meeting those standards may be harder on your own than as a crew in some situations.
So I guess I partly agree with you, but would not say it is a significant difference in my opinion.
The biggest difference of course is that the King Air and CJ* you mention can still be flown single pilot on both sides of the pond (* as long as it's not public transport).
Yes training is different for the exemption to fly multi pilot types single crew as the flightdeck is not so conveniently set up to cater for the missing person etc. The checkride standard, however, is hopefully the same as you need to demonstrate your ability to fly the aircraft within the prescribed tolerences in both examples. I agree that meeting those standards may be harder on your own than as a crew in some situations.
So I guess I partly agree with you, but would not say it is a significant difference in my opinion.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Regrettably far from 50°N
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Hi all,
If nobody else has mentioned it there's Aurigny in the Channel Islands with its single-crewed Trislanders. Maybe not for too much longer (another 5 years? - the Tri is 40 this year) but still going strong.
AM
If nobody else has mentioned it there's Aurigny in the Channel Islands with its single-crewed Trislanders. Maybe not for too much longer (another 5 years? - the Tri is 40 this year) but still going strong.
AM
Join Date: May 2009
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You guys know there is significant training difference and checkride standard between those that get a King Air 350 or CJ single pilot type and that of a Single Pilot Waiver in the two pilot jets, like the Encore...right?
Join Date: Mar 2010
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C525 vs C560
Two weeks training in both, at the end of the C525 you go home with your C525sp type...which is valid forever...
At the end of the C560 training, you get your type...your crew mate goes home to fly in a crew...you now start another week of SP training...you now demonstrate everything possible as a single pilot, including raw data single engine approaches, ect....
Your first SP type, has to be done in the aircraft, not a sim...which means that if you fail, about a 50% failure rate, means coming back a month later...and doing the whole flight again...not in a sim and do the failed portion after having a cup of coffee in the lounge.
The SP type is only good for a year..it expires...recurrent training is not 2 days... it's another week, and you take another SP type ride again...you don't just show up, like most recurrent training...you do this every year...let this lapse...and you get to do this in the plane again...
High failure rate, because of a first time in the plane...sometimes the FAA comes along for initials which can turn this ride into an all day deal...
If you get the SP waiver, you send off all your hours, every trip logged to Cessna, who sends all this info, including pass no pass training records to the FAA.
Only 120 or so pilots on earth have the exemption every year....roughly 500 pilots have ever had the exemption..with most not exercising SP privileges....they just do the SP training as recurrent...but have a copilot...
So the difference is because the FAA has this phobia once you get into planes past the 12500 lb limit...so when you start getting close to 17000 lbs, and the speeds his . 77...they want the training and records requirements.
Now the Premier I, might be light but it's fast. .80 and has some sweep in the wings...the weight got this past the Feds to stay with a single pilot type...not exemption...
CJ4s kind of break the rules, in that you can get the single pilot type and be heavier then 12500, but I suspect because it's not a speed demon, that might have something to do with it...
The SJ30 is the plane I want to fly....
Two weeks training in both, at the end of the C525 you go home with your C525sp type...which is valid forever...
At the end of the C560 training, you get your type...your crew mate goes home to fly in a crew...you now start another week of SP training...you now demonstrate everything possible as a single pilot, including raw data single engine approaches, ect....
Your first SP type, has to be done in the aircraft, not a sim...which means that if you fail, about a 50% failure rate, means coming back a month later...and doing the whole flight again...not in a sim and do the failed portion after having a cup of coffee in the lounge.
The SP type is only good for a year..it expires...recurrent training is not 2 days... it's another week, and you take another SP type ride again...you don't just show up, like most recurrent training...you do this every year...let this lapse...and you get to do this in the plane again...
High failure rate, because of a first time in the plane...sometimes the FAA comes along for initials which can turn this ride into an all day deal...
If you get the SP waiver, you send off all your hours, every trip logged to Cessna, who sends all this info, including pass no pass training records to the FAA.
Only 120 or so pilots on earth have the exemption every year....roughly 500 pilots have ever had the exemption..with most not exercising SP privileges....they just do the SP training as recurrent...but have a copilot...
So the difference is because the FAA has this phobia once you get into planes past the 12500 lb limit...so when you start getting close to 17000 lbs, and the speeds his . 77...they want the training and records requirements.
Now the Premier I, might be light but it's fast. .80 and has some sweep in the wings...the weight got this past the Feds to stay with a single pilot type...not exemption...
CJ4s kind of break the rules, in that you can get the single pilot type and be heavier then 12500, but I suspect because it's not a speed demon, that might have something to do with it...
The SJ30 is the plane I want to fly....
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Johns7022
Do you agree that operate on a SPW is illegal in Europe on a N reg Cessna Encore? (and all the other countries, whos rules are tougher then the FAA, in this case regarding aircrafts over 12500 lbs)
Seems to me that operators/pilots still breaking this law, I did for quite a few years on the Encore, until I was convinced by Flight safety funny enough
Our insurance company was very happy to insure me for years, but then suddenly they changed there minds.
And I know now that incase something would have happened, they would never had paid out (they even admitted that themself afterwards)
Happy flying
Do you agree that operate on a SPW is illegal in Europe on a N reg Cessna Encore? (and all the other countries, whos rules are tougher then the FAA, in this case regarding aircrafts over 12500 lbs)
Seems to me that operators/pilots still breaking this law, I did for quite a few years on the Encore, until I was convinced by Flight safety funny enough
Our insurance company was very happy to insure me for years, but then suddenly they changed there minds.
And I know now that incase something would have happened, they would never had paid out (they even admitted that themself afterwards)
Happy flying
Join Date: May 2010
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Johns7022,
I don't recall having to use superhuman skills to pass the course and SPW check ride. Maybe you found it more difficult than most, so assume that you possess such superior skills.
Anyway, as has already been pointed out, this FAA waiver has no legal effect while operating in Europe, and that is why most of us here hired co-pilots, and sold our alarm clocks.
I don't recall having to use superhuman skills to pass the course and SPW check ride. Maybe you found it more difficult than most, so assume that you possess such superior skills.
Anyway, as has already been pointed out, this FAA waiver has no legal effect while operating in Europe, and that is why most of us here hired co-pilots, and sold our alarm clocks.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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I find it fascinating how many people fly single pilot in Citations with waivers, in countries that never issued them and now talk of this subject like experts. Ahh, the internet...everyone can be who they want.
This whole SPW thing is willy-waving at it's worst. Any transport category plane flying passengers, privately or for revenue, should be flown by TWO pilots, as evidenced by the fact the SPW is an FAA-only way around there own rules! It is only possessed and used by a few, subject to expensive requirements that negate any cost savings. Human failure is the root cause of 85% of accidents and the only means of reducing that fact is two pilots using good CRM skills.
I say that with 1400 hours of tactical fighter time and 2500 hours in the CE-500 series. The tac fighters are considerably more complex machine than any Citation and the mission elements are not even in the same ballpark.
Is it any wonder why only the FAA allows this operation?
GF
I say that with 1400 hours of tactical fighter time and 2500 hours in the CE-500 series. The tac fighters are considerably more complex machine than any Citation and the mission elements are not even in the same ballpark.
Is it any wonder why only the FAA allows this operation?
GF
Join Date: May 2009
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C525 vs C560
Two weeks training in both, at the end of the C525 you go home with your C525sp type...which is valid forever...
At the end of the C560 training, you get your type...your crew mate goes home to fly in a crew...you now start another week of SP training...you now demonstrate everything possible as a single pilot, including raw data single engine approaches, ect....
Two weeks training in both, at the end of the C525 you go home with your C525sp type...which is valid forever...
At the end of the C560 training, you get your type...your crew mate goes home to fly in a crew...you now start another week of SP training...you now demonstrate everything possible as a single pilot, including raw data single engine approaches, ect....
Your first SP type, has to be done in the aircraft, not a sim...which means that if you fail, about a 50% failure rate, means coming back a month later...and doing the whole flight again...not in a sim and do the failed portion after having a cup of coffee in the lounge.
Only 120 or so pilots on earth have the exemption every year....roughly 500 pilots have ever had the exemption..with most not exercising SP privileges....they just do the SP training as recurrent...but have a copilot...
So the difference is because the FAA has this phobia once you get into planes past the 12500 lb limit...so when you start getting close to 17000 lbs, and the speeds his . 77...they want the training and records requirements.
So the difference is because the FAA has this phobia once you get into planes past the 12500 lb limit...so when you start getting close to 17000 lbs, and the speeds his . 77...they want the training and records requirements.
CJ3 has a MTOW of 13880; the CJ4 you mention is in the 17k weight class with a MMo of 0.77M - faster than any 500-series airframe.
Premier II has a proposed takeoff weight of 13.8k lbs. HBC still plans for it to use the RA390S type rating of the Premier 1/1A, so no "exemption" will be required.
The Phenom 300 has a MTOW in the 17-18k lbs class and 0.78 MMo , and it too has a single pilot type rating with no offered or needed exemption.
500-series Citations with MTOW above 12.5k lbs are legacy airframes with legacy cockpit designs certified under Part 25, hence the need for a waiver from two-crew operations - these other airframes are Part 23 or 23 Commuter Category certified with cockpits designed from the scratch for single-pilot operations.
But by all means, please don't stop thinking jumping through the training hoops for a SPW means you're a "better" pilot who gets more stringent checking than anyone flying a modern SP jet...
Join Date: Mar 2010
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A little too much insecurity in here for my taste...just stating the facts gentlemen....I don't fly space shuttles, nor do I land helicopters on oil rigs in storms......just fly Citations....if you have a problem with single pilot ops...take it up with the Feds.
Join Date: Mar 2010
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single pilot ops under an FAA registered a/c within EASA
continuing on with this debate! lets say for example that i get a type rating on a citation mustang under an FAA certified TRTO in the United States! But i will be flying that aircraft in the UK under and November reg! excluding commercial operations! if i want to fly that aircraft under IFR rules at night or day PRIVATELY am i subject to the same constraints as under commercial rules?
