Single-Pilot-Ops
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My letter and waivers never said 'US Only' and not only did I fly to Mexico and Canada, routinely talking to Customs, and their versions of the FAA...I was under the distinct impression there was 'reciprocity'.
Again, if the FAA here is going to buy off on foreign pilots, with no real type training, flying jets around here, they are going to have to buy on on single pilots flying around there.
If you really want to yank out and inspect the flight training, rating and inspection process here in the US vs many other countries, I am surprised the FAA is letting some of these pilots in...
So there has to be some 'give' on both parties...a certain amount of trust that each domestic agency is doing what they can to provide for safe air travel.
Again, if the FAA here is going to buy off on foreign pilots, with no real type training, flying jets around here, they are going to have to buy on on single pilots flying around there.
If you really want to yank out and inspect the flight training, rating and inspection process here in the US vs many other countries, I am surprised the FAA is letting some of these pilots in...
So there has to be some 'give' on both parties...a certain amount of trust that each domestic agency is doing what they can to provide for safe air travel.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dixie USA
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Before you make statements about training differences maybe you should look over the JAA requirements. Knowledgeable people on this board know exactly what the difference is. Shucks, in the USA a PRIVATE PILOT can just get someone to write down that they did the training, take that to the FAA and immediately they have an SIC type rating. Try doing that in Europe.
Johns7022
I train at a very busy training center and work with JAA TREs; most standards, evaluations, procedures used outside the US are far stricter and detailed. Written exams are not from a freely available database, but very detailed on a wide variety of subjects. Canadians take about 8 exams on everything from Aviation Law, Meteorology, Navigation among others.
Hell, the driving test in the UK is harder than any of our type checks.
GF
I train at a very busy training center and work with JAA TREs; most standards, evaluations, procedures used outside the US are far stricter and detailed. Written exams are not from a freely available database, but very detailed on a wide variety of subjects. Canadians take about 8 exams on everything from Aviation Law, Meteorology, Navigation among others.
Hell, the driving test in the UK is harder than any of our type checks.
GF
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jhon,
As an ex FAA licensed ATPL single pilot (no Autopilot) turbo prop Captain who flew SA227 and Be1900s (if one broke down Id just jump into the other type), I hope your Cowboy shinny belt will remain so for bit longer for the sake of your passengers.
As a current JAA airline Captain, I would like to tell you that FAA training is poor to say the least.
Your written exam is a joke and its merely enough for one to survive in your single pilot ops.
Good luck and I hope you will one day meet Captains that may enlighten you what being a pilot is all about.
As an ex FAA licensed ATPL single pilot (no Autopilot) turbo prop Captain who flew SA227 and Be1900s (if one broke down Id just jump into the other type), I hope your Cowboy shinny belt will remain so for bit longer for the sake of your passengers.
As a current JAA airline Captain, I would like to tell you that FAA training is poor to say the least.
Your written exam is a joke and its merely enough for one to survive in your single pilot ops.
Good luck and I hope you will one day meet Captains that may enlighten you what being a pilot is all about.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Jungle or Sand!!!!!!
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ deFacto
I do value your opnion but I think its grossly unfair to put the stigmatism of FAA against JAA, because your basically saying there is nothing better than JAA (EASA). In reality it is a basic ability of the the crew member, crew, operation, owner, company or authority to regulate oneself to the point of greater Professionalism.
There are great crews I have worked with and really atrocious ones and these have ranged from a few diffrent state liceneses. A guy with, lets say, a Nigerian ATPL could be the most professional person you have ever worked with even though the states regulations, training requirments are poor.
This discussion could have gone the other way with a JAA type saying the same thing.
Yes I agree there is huge diffrences in regulatory requirments for crews, but it does not say that everybody is cut from that cloth.
If this was the case then countries would exclude airlines from flying into there airspace unless they meet there requirments.
There are plenty of crews that fly on diffrent lincenses flying in diffrent countries doing great jobs.
Emirates is a case in point, where there are a multitude of diffrent types flying as crews and doing a fantastic job.
This discussion is more about a state of mind and how somebody does there job.
I do not agree with this gentleman (as is my right) that the safety of his operation will be greatly improved if they could fly with two crew.
Its up to him to change his mindset to understand what he could be doing to improve the safety of his operation and along the way download his experiance onto a guy that could use it effectively.
What happens one day when he does have to leave the operation, will the owner expect the next person to fly by himself, why not be a part of change that is increasing the safety of our industry and show the regulators that we can do our jobs proffesionally with out there 100% oversight.
This is my opnion I am not getting involved in a mud slinging contest.
I do value your opnion but I think its grossly unfair to put the stigmatism of FAA against JAA, because your basically saying there is nothing better than JAA (EASA). In reality it is a basic ability of the the crew member, crew, operation, owner, company or authority to regulate oneself to the point of greater Professionalism.
There are great crews I have worked with and really atrocious ones and these have ranged from a few diffrent state liceneses. A guy with, lets say, a Nigerian ATPL could be the most professional person you have ever worked with even though the states regulations, training requirments are poor.
This discussion could have gone the other way with a JAA type saying the same thing.
Yes I agree there is huge diffrences in regulatory requirments for crews, but it does not say that everybody is cut from that cloth.
If this was the case then countries would exclude airlines from flying into there airspace unless they meet there requirments.
There are plenty of crews that fly on diffrent lincenses flying in diffrent countries doing great jobs.
Emirates is a case in point, where there are a multitude of diffrent types flying as crews and doing a fantastic job.
This discussion is more about a state of mind and how somebody does there job.
I do not agree with this gentleman (as is my right) that the safety of his operation will be greatly improved if they could fly with two crew.
Its up to him to change his mindset to understand what he could be doing to improve the safety of his operation and along the way download his experiance onto a guy that could use it effectively.
What happens one day when he does have to leave the operation, will the owner expect the next person to fly by himself, why not be a part of change that is increasing the safety of our industry and show the regulators that we can do our jobs proffesionally with out there 100% oversight.
This is my opnion I am not getting involved in a mud slinging contest.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a current JAA airline Captain, I would like to tell you that FAA training is poor to say the least.
Your written exam is a joke and its merely enough for one to survive in your single pilot ops.
Your written exam is a joke and its merely enough for one to survive in your single pilot ops.
I cannot let you get away with this
Yes the EASA ATP is much harder to get but are you saying that EASA ATPs are better than FAA??? Harder does not always mean better.i am afraid that if you are saying so then you are wrong! A major study was carried out to compare the two. The conclusion was that while taking different training paths the quality of the end result was the same, the safety stats between FAA and EASA trained ATPs are the same.
This caused much dissapointment in EASA land who were looking for justification in their "higher standards" to diminish the quality of FAA ATPs.
ALL regulations in aviation should be based on one thing and one thing only and that is SAFETY sadly they are not!!! If there is a known safety hole in the stats then plug it.
As far as single pilot Ops there is infact such a safety hole in the stats where the accident rate increases with single pilot ops in jets.
Enough said
Pace
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys,
I was not clear in my post.
I meant that the training i received to operate in single ops (looking back at it) was poor to say the least....(flight training in actual aircraft,as fun as it was..,)and that the FAA ATPL written is,all can admit,not a selection but just a tick in the box.
I dont compare FAA to JAA as JAA dont allow single pilot ops in Aircraft that do require a type rating.(>5.7t).
I was not clear in my post.
I meant that the training i received to operate in single ops (looking back at it) was poor to say the least....(flight training in actual aircraft,as fun as it was..,)and that the FAA ATPL written is,all can admit,not a selection but just a tick in the box.
I dont compare FAA to JAA as JAA dont allow single pilot ops in Aircraft that do require a type rating.(>5.7t).
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
de facto
A tick in the box maybe, but it must be the correct box, no? As Pace has already pointed out, there have been many attempts to show the superiority of JAA/EASA and they have all failed. It is quite obvious to the unbiased and informed that it is all about preserving European based training that would be lost to the USA due to weather and cost. There is no documented evidence of substandard performace by FAA pilots as compared to JAA/EASA. Or visa versa for that matter.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
de facto
Sorry if I'm being a bore but consider this:
I got 100% in DC electrics in the UK. Question: Can you hold in a trip free circuit breaker? Ah, well, yes I could but er might not be a good idea though. is it yes, no or just downright ambiguous? The answer was no by the way, its things like this that make the European writtens harder, does it make you better? I think not.
I got 100% in DC electrics in the UK. Question: Can you hold in a trip free circuit breaker? Ah, well, yes I could but er might not be a good idea though. is it yes, no or just downright ambiguous? The answer was no by the way, its things like this that make the European writtens harder, does it make you better? I think not.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if we are going to go down the path of discussing who has the 'toughest testing' as a way to weed find the best pilots...I personally can't attest to JAA vs FAA....and I am not sure many can, simply put, that unless you took all the FAA ratings, then moved to Europe and they made you take all the written and flight tests all over again for JAA...then NOW we can really compare.
My ATP test started off flying in a twin to an intersection hold using one KX155 NAV to flip back and forth between two VORs for the entry and hold...and doing single engine go arounds...as the examiner stated 'he wanted to separate' the wheat from the chaff..'
Talking to other ATPs...telling me that they flew to their holds watching the little aircraft on the moving map fly to the little hold depicted....certainly told me that having good 'situational awareness' is not a skill the Feds seem to care about anymore..
Either way...in a world of 200 hr FOs being hired to right seat airliners and such...let's not get too worked up about 'how tough the standards are'......
My feeling is this...if you want to find a pilot worth his salt...walk the pilot out to the ramp on a zero zero day....point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back....you'd be surprised how many guys won't do that...
My ATP test started off flying in a twin to an intersection hold using one KX155 NAV to flip back and forth between two VORs for the entry and hold...and doing single engine go arounds...as the examiner stated 'he wanted to separate' the wheat from the chaff..'
Talking to other ATPs...telling me that they flew to their holds watching the little aircraft on the moving map fly to the little hold depicted....certainly told me that having good 'situational awareness' is not a skill the Feds seem to care about anymore..
Either way...in a world of 200 hr FOs being hired to right seat airliners and such...let's not get too worked up about 'how tough the standards are'......
My feeling is this...if you want to find a pilot worth his salt...walk the pilot out to the ramp on a zero zero day....point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back....you'd be surprised how many guys won't do that...
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My feeling is this...if you want to find a pilot worth his salt...walk the pilot out to the ramp on a zero zero day....point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back....you'd be surprised how many guys won't do that...
With Zero Zero I dont think ANY will get back
Especially with one nav and one com one vacuum pump no anti/deice etc Pace
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
johns7022
Everyone here knows you would not know a pilot worth his salt if he jumped up and bit ya. I for one would not want to fly with an idiot that would accept "point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back" just to try and prove something to an even bigger idiot.
Why can't you get it through your incredibly thick skull, you have no credibility here.
Why can't you get it through your incredibly thick skull, you have no credibility here.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So a little fog bothers you guys?
You forgot how to shoot an ILS this morning?
Either we have 14 year olds with no real world flying experience posting on here, or guys that can't take off without triple EFIS, 12 Navs, 9 coms and 4 engines...totally past it....
Thanks for making my point gentleman. You know, there are some clouds out there right? Every day isn't sunshine.
You forgot how to shoot an ILS this morning?
Either we have 14 year olds with no real world flying experience posting on here, or guys that can't take off without triple EFIS, 12 Navs, 9 coms and 4 engines...totally past it....
Thanks for making my point gentleman. You know, there are some clouds out there right? Every day isn't sunshine.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote:
My feeling is this...if you want to find a pilot worth his salt...walk the pilot out to the ramp on a zero zero day....point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back....you'd be surprised how many guys won't do that...
I won't do that. Guess I'm not worth my salt.
My feeling is this...if you want to find a pilot worth his salt...walk the pilot out to the ramp on a zero zero day....point him to the C172, with one com and and one nav, no gps, and tell him to fly over the hills, shoot that approach, buy some gas, come back....you'd be surprised how many guys won't do that...
I won't do that. Guess I'm not worth my salt.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
johns7022
You had better hope that your true identity does not become known as you will need a career change. Or maybe that has already started to happen, are you single pilot because no one will fly with you? Divorced? Never married? Sad, non team player with a inferiority complex? 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NuName: If your going to threaten peeps on the net, beware of the consequences...you just might have to meet up with them in real life.....
For the other's in here that won't hop into a single on a foggy day...just how do you think your last package from Fedex got to your house......seriously...you guys need to wake up....
For the other's in here that won't hop into a single on a foggy day...just how do you think your last package from Fedex got to your house......seriously...you guys need to wake up....
@NuName
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
johns7022
Your right about one thing, there is some waking up to be done, on your part, I've heard it all before, I'm right and the rest of the world is wrong. I have no problem meeting with you, there were no threats involved only statements of fact and my own personal observations.
Transition
These forums are open to members to comment on the subjects raised, this can lead things in a direction that was not anticipated, if you don't like that then don't post or your going to have heartache thats out of your control.
Your right about one thing, there is some waking up to be done, on your part, I've heard it all before, I'm right and the rest of the world is wrong. I have no problem meeting with you, there were no threats involved only statements of fact and my own personal observations.
Transition
These forums are open to members to comment on the subjects raised, this can lead things in a direction that was not anticipated, if you don't like that then don't post or your going to have heartache thats out of your control.
The One Your Mother Warned You About
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wherever they pay me
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Single pilot ops
Drifting slightly back towards the topic......
I used to fly a Citation 2 and a King Air around Europe single pilot and it was the hardest work I have ever done in aviation, especially in winter. At those times when everything speeds up and you are running out of hands/feet eyes and other parts I would have given many things to have a competent pilot sitting next to me to share the load.
Now I fly SPIFR helicopters and mult-pilot aeroplanes around. Technology has moved on so far that the aeroplane would be quite simple to fly single pilot, until the systems start to fail. The helicopter has a full glass cockpit and an astonishing autopilot and makes mincemeat of serious IFR flying. but it is the equipment on board which allows that.
Beech now put a good glass cockpit on the KingAir which probably helps SP ops, but when I think back to the fit on the old Citation I wonder how I ever coped, especially when I was tired, not feeling at my best or in a hurry dealing with last minute changes. (and lets face it, if you can afford to tool around in your own jet you expect the world to change to your whims, not the other way around.)
Finally for Johns7022, I have flown a "zero/zero" approach in a 172. It was into London Heathrow on my nephew's FliteSim programme, just to prove to the little horror that a "real pilot" can do anything a play pilot can. Give me that 172 scenario for real and I will be first in the airport coffee shop.
FF
I used to fly a Citation 2 and a King Air around Europe single pilot and it was the hardest work I have ever done in aviation, especially in winter. At those times when everything speeds up and you are running out of hands/feet eyes and other parts I would have given many things to have a competent pilot sitting next to me to share the load.
Now I fly SPIFR helicopters and mult-pilot aeroplanes around. Technology has moved on so far that the aeroplane would be quite simple to fly single pilot, until the systems start to fail. The helicopter has a full glass cockpit and an astonishing autopilot and makes mincemeat of serious IFR flying. but it is the equipment on board which allows that.
Beech now put a good glass cockpit on the KingAir which probably helps SP ops, but when I think back to the fit on the old Citation I wonder how I ever coped, especially when I was tired, not feeling at my best or in a hurry dealing with last minute changes. (and lets face it, if you can afford to tool around in your own jet you expect the world to change to your whims, not the other way around.)
Finally for Johns7022, I have flown a "zero/zero" approach in a 172. It was into London Heathrow on my nephew's FliteSim programme, just to prove to the little horror that a "real pilot" can do anything a play pilot can. Give me that 172 scenario for real and I will be first in the airport coffee shop.
FF
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Francis Frogbound
I nearly wrote Francis Fogbound 
I know what you mean, I had 3 years in a C421 as single pilot in Europe many years back, I then moved on to a CE501 flying with the owner, it would have been easier single pilot believe me. Eventualy he allowed me to bring another ATPL into the picture, life became much more enjoyable. The 421 was much more demanding than the 501 ever was, now I can be a little more choosey about what I do, I would never go back to single pilot operations, IMHO there is simply no justification for it, I only done it as I had no money and it was the only position available to me at the time. The phrase "old bold pilots" springs to mind.
I know what you mean, I had 3 years in a C421 as single pilot in Europe many years back, I then moved on to a CE501 flying with the owner, it would have been easier single pilot believe me. Eventualy he allowed me to bring another ATPL into the picture, life became much more enjoyable. The 421 was much more demanding than the 501 ever was, now I can be a little more choosey about what I do, I would never go back to single pilot operations, IMHO there is simply no justification for it, I only done it as I had no money and it was the only position available to me at the time. The phrase "old bold pilots" springs to mind.